Topic: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance

[Draex]

The fans don’t believe.

Real shame that it’s become so easy for the majority to act like this.

Weird stance to blame fans, it starts with the players, they don't believe, you can see it in their body language.

[alonsoisared]

Scrambling around for positives but the first half was an improvement last night. Under Klopp there's always been a certain profile of side that we don't match up well with tactically,  Madrid obviously but we always struggled to play well against Tuchel's Chelsea and Pochettino's Spurs (even though we tended to get results), Napoli are another. Teams not afraid to press us high but also very happy in tight spaces themselves pretty much tend to melt through our entire game plan. I think Atalanta fit that profile and we just couldn't get to grips with them.

The two united games we played well we just couldn't hit a barn door. We've played worse and won. So really the only bad performances in this run have been Palace, which we still had the chances to win, plus being tactically done by a very awkward opponent.

We've also been here many times before in a run in. 18/19 we were hardly playing swashbuckling football by this point, 20/21 the same, we were grinding wins out by the odd goal and getting over the line pretty much on our mental strength and the ability of our forwards to win a game out of nothing. We've played great football in periods but since we became a team who really competed for the biggest honours, performances have often been pretty workmanlike. Whether we win our last six games or not I don't think anyone could expect great performances. We just need to get a lot better at taking our chances again.

Ultimately our forwards are drawing a bit of a blank and there's big decisions to be made, Jota should be first choice IMO and while I've been critical of him Gakpo suddenly looks next in line. I don't think Salah's spot should be automatic and as I've argued on here before I think his days as a winger are numbered. He doesn't have the pace, he can't seem to take anyone on 1 v 1 anymore and our front line hasnt looked as good since he came back from injury, in my opinion. We need to play our form players at the moment if we are going to get ourselves back in contention, which maybe means Diaz completes that front three. Other players have found form by coming off the bench and doing well against tired defences and perhaps it's Mo's turn for that.

It's not over yet. It's not as bad as it feels like. We're still in touch, our two rivals have both had body blows since our last league game and have big tests of their strength coming up too. There's some very small changes that can get us, if not at our swashbuckling best, at least to a point where we can go back to grinding wins out again. We shouldn't give up on a Jürgen Klopp team because they're always capable of surprising you.

[Henry Chinaski]

We've also been here many times before in a run in. 18/19 we were hardly playing swashbuckling football by this point, 20/21 the same, we were grinding wins out by the odd goal and getting over the line pretty much on our mental strength and the ability of our forwards to win a game out of nothing. We've played great football in periods but since we became a team who really competed for the biggest honours, performances have often been pretty workmanlike. Whether we win our last six games or not I don't think anyone could expect great performances. We just need to get a lot better at taking our chances again.

There's some very small changes that can get us, if not at our swashbuckling best, at least to a point where we can go back to grinding wins out again. We shouldn't give up on a Jürgen Klopp team because they're always capable of surprising you.

These are very good points.

[KissThisGuy]

Free midweek before our last 3 would be huge, but even before this massive slump these 3 away games in 6 days (or 4 in 9) looked a nightmare and we've blown any margin for error.

We're more likely to.win 0 then all 3. Beat Fulham and go from there but we just aren't winning all 3. The players haven't got it in them.

What % chance do you think we have winning each game? I think maybe 60% v Fulham, 60% against Everton (who have been historically shite for 4 months), and maybe 50% chance of winning against West Ham.

[spider-neil]

Potentially Arsenal and City drop points (unlikely with City) but we aren't in good enough form to take advantage if they do.

[UntouchableLuis]

The Everton game is one of them that City would go and win by at least 3 goals with no problems at all. I can already see how scrappy we're going to be there. Fans are going to force the ref to give everything for them.

Our trips to Goodison have never been easy under Klopp even at the best of times. Both teams are looking really stale at the minute so I'll be amazed if there's many goals at all in it.

Fulham first though - they're playing a lot better than us in recent games so it's up to us to go there and prove we still have what it takes.

[KissThisGuy]

The Everton game is one of them that City would go and win by at least 3 goals with no problems at all. I can already see how scrappy we're going to be there. Fans are going to force the ref to give everything for them.

Our trips to Goodison have never been easy under Klopp even at the best of times. Both teams are looking really stale at the minute so I'll be amazed if there's many goals at all in it.

Fulham first though - they're playing a lot better than us in recent games so it's up to us to go there and prove we still have what it takes.

No they're not. They've won 1 of their last 4 PL games

[UntouchableLuis]

I would have taken a domestic cup and top 4 finish if offered at the start of the season. We overhauled the midfield I was fearing the worst. Injuries have derailed our season, again.

You'd have taken that in the context of last season, sure.

But then knowing it's Klopp's final season and the fact that a few weeks ago we had all 4 trophies realistically in our sights...to go from that to almost nothing in 4 weeks is mental.

I still reckon we have the best squad out of everyone as well.

Its the lack of hunger and fight that has been crazy to see.

Back in the CL and a trophy is a decent enough season in context, considering where we were last season. But when all is said and done, the players will always look back on it with deep sadness and regret at what could have been.

Jurgen must be one of the most unlucky managers of all time considering the kind of shitty luck he's had here.

I know he's had unbelievable moments but stuff like Karius in the final, Covid hitting the one time we win the title, some ridiculous VAR decisions and the heartbreak of getting unbelievable points totals to be pipped by the cheats still.

No wonder he's packing it in.

[UntouchableLuis]

No they're not. They've won 1 of their last 4 PL games

But their general play is better. Who would you fancy to score more goals at the minute, us or them?

[KissThisGuy]

But their general play is better. Who would you fancy to score more goals at the minute, us or them?

Us. They've scored 6 in their last 4 in the league, and we have 7. We create far more chances.

[Cafe De Paris]

It’s like watching a different team at the moment. We were so poor last night.

[QC]

360 minutes really. Gakpo's goal v Sheffield United.

Since then 2 penalties and a goal from a corner. Shocking stuff.

It’s an impressively bad statistic, though perhaps slightly skewed by Atlanta ‘figuring us out’. Wonder when the last time we had a drought like this?

Hard to say whether the best course is to reshuffle the entire attack or just stick and hope they come good

[killer-heels]

It’s an impressively bad statistic, though perhaps slightly skewed by Atlanta ‘figuring us out’. Wonder when the last time we had a drought like this?

Hard to say whether the best course is to reshuffle the entire attack or just stick and hope they come good

The run in the covid season was pretty grim but at that point we were not creating chances. We are right now, just not converting.

[Fromola]

These are very good points.

When we had the 90+ point seasons we won a lot of games to 0 with clean sheets. That's what titles are based on..Not having to come back from going behind every week.

Coming from behind to win is something you have to do as well but not as a regular routine. Your 2-0 type no frills wins should be the routine wins

[Crosby Nick]

When we had the 90+ point seasons we won a lot of games to 0 with clean sheets. That's what titles are based on..Not having to come back from going behind every week.

Coming from behind to win is something you have to do as well but not as a regular routine. Your 2-0 type no frills wins should be the routine wins

 Think in the back end of 21/22 we had a bad run of falling behind and coming back to win - Villa, Southampton, Wolves in the last few weeks. Although we probably had some routine wins to 0 in there too. All a blur now!

[Fromola]

Think in the back end of 21/22 we had a bad run of falling behind and coming back to win - Villa, Southampton, Wolves in the last few weeks. Although we probably had some routine wins to 0 in there too. All a blur now!

We won 21 of our 28 wins to nil in 21/22. We did tire in the run in physically going the distance in 4 comps.

Haven't we gone behind in 21 this season? We've only won 8 games to 0.

[killer-heels]

Think in the back end of 21/22 we had a bad run of falling behind and coming back to win - Villa, Southampton, Wolves in the last few weeks. Although we probably had some routine wins to 0 in there too. All a blur now!

It was the away game at Villareal where our performance levels started to drop. That semi final took a lot out of us physically and then that game against Spurs happened. We of course beat Southampton, Villa, Wolves but the performances were very much like they have been recently for us.

Just goes to show you what a physical toll competing in that many tournaments combined with our style of play means. The 18/19, 19/20 teams never really had that to concern themselves with.

[darragh85]

Can blame our attack and it has been poor lately but maybe they are drained from constantly having to come from a goal down in almost every game. Our defence have been poor. We give too many big chances in every game and if we are honest, the super shot stopper alisson kept us in many matches. Kelleher likewise but not to the same extent.

Alisson made a save last night that he had no right.he stops shots that should be goals.

[Kashinoda]

The context seems to go out of the window when talking about this side.

We've been (and are still in) a title race with 2 teams who've had, comparitively, little in the way of injury issues. When De Bryne was out for a bt this season everyone put an asterisk on City's performances. I remember them getting absolutely tonked by Villa and the excuses came out.

Established players who've had at least 2-3 months out each:
Alisson
Trent
Salah
Robertson
Jota
Matip
Jones
Thiago (lol)

It's not like that list is exhaustive either. We simply haven't had anywhere near our best team available for large parts of this season, a season that was meant to be a transitional one.

We largely have a full squad now and we're having to ride some shit form, Arsenal had to ride some shit form around Christmas and came out with a big winning run. That's what happens, eventually you dust yourself off and start to put it right. It might not happen but it's still doable.

[AndyMuller]

The fans don’t believe.

Real shame that it’s become so easy for the majority to act like this.

There is only so much we can do mate.

The professional footballers who are paid handsomely to kick the football have to do the rest.

[Mister Flip Flop]

The worrying thing is the players don't look arsed. Even Jurgen just looks fed up with everything.

[Kloppage Time]

Unfortunately out of the title chasing 3, we seem to be the team fading the most, then Arsenal, City still seem to be at it, from this viewpoint hopes aren't high, but some hope still remains if we can keep in the hunt until the final couple of games that it can be turned around

[RainbowFlick]

The worrying thing is the players don't look arsed. Even Jurgen just looks fed up with everything.

just a real lack of leadership imo. i'm not even sure they're not 'arsed', they just seem shell-shocked after the Man United and Atalanta home fixtures. like it was a huge wake-up call for them but mentally it just meant they thought it was insurmountable and inevitable we'd not win either. really disappointing from VVD and senior players at the moment.

[Nick110581]

Weird stance to blame fans, it starts with the players, they don't believe, you can see it in their body language.

It helps if the fans didn’t throw the towel in after drawing with United.

The negativity is bizarre.

[Eeyore]

Can blame our attack and it has been poor lately but maybe they are drained from constantly having to come from a goal down in almost every game. Our defence have been poor. We give too many big chances in every game and if we are honest, the super shot stopper alisson kept us in many matches. Kelleher likewise but not to the same extent.

Alisson made a save last night that he had no right.he stops shots that should be goals.

The defence gets zero protection from the midfield though. We also give the ball away cheaply in midfield time and time again which is something the Gini-Fabinho-Henderson rarely did. They may have been pretty staid in possession but they were also very safe. If we lost possession it was down the other end usually a hooked Henderson cross to the far stick.

Now the midfield gives it away for fun and then simply doesn't have the legs at DM to recover.

[deano2727]

It's not over until it's over and all that, but yeah, it's over I reckon.

We look finished. In their current form, I cannot imagine this team winning the next game, never mind the next 6.

[Eeyore]

Win our next two games both of which we are overwhelming favourites for and we will be 4 points ahead of City and 3 ahead of Arsenal. That then puts massive pressure on City and Arsenal.

City have some really tricky fixtures coming up.



Let's get 6 points and put real pressure on them.

[Eeyore]

It's not over until it's over and all that, but yeah, it's over I reckon.

We look finished. In their current form, I cannot imagine this team winning the next game, never mind the next 6.

We have just won our last game away to Atalanta. They are a better side than Fulham or Everton.

[deano2727]

We have just won our last game away to Atalanta. They are a better side than Fulham or Everton.

We won on the night, but I don't think it will feel like a win to anyone except Atalanta. It was a very poor showing - zero urgency and out of ideas. Nothing in any of our last games has given me confidence that we can win our next 6. It's fine to support and have faith, but if we are being brutally honest, we don't seem likely to win the next 3 never mind the next 6.

I struggle to see how anyone could genuinely believe otherwise. We look done.

I'll still be cheering us on win, lose or draw, but I've already given up on the league now, because it looks like the players have too.

[Nick110581]

We won on the night, but I don't think it will feel like a win to anyone except Atalanta. It was a very poor showing - zero urgency and out of ideas. Nothing in any of our last games has given me confidence that we can win our next 6. It's fine to support and have faith, but if we are being brutally honest, we don't seem likely to win the next 3 never mind the next 6.

I struggle to see how anyone could genuinely believe otherwise. We look done.

I'll still be cheering us on win, lose or draw, but I've already given up on the league now, because it looks like the players have too.

The players have asked for your support.

We know what we can achieve when it’s a collective.

[fridgepants]

I have to say, lads and lady-lads, I'm torn between accepting that this the team we get for the next few fixtures now, and keeping the hotel reservations I booked for the victory parade open.

I don't know what's going on but everyone just seems demoralised, it was like the middle of last season again. Would Man City being fucked out of the cup by Chelsea have the same effect on them, though, perhaps? I don't know.

[stewy17]

I've no idea what will happen over the next week, I guess I don't have a great feeling about it though.

What I do find strange is the criticism of the players who have come back from injury recently: Jones, Szoboszlai, Salah, Trent, Robertson, Jota, etc. There is a complete failure to acknowledge that they were all out for pretty big periods and no player just strolls back into teams at their maximum level either from a fitness or sharpness POV.

Injuries, and their timings, have fucked us this season.

This next week is going to be monumental. If we manage to get 9 points and we're still in touch when we get to the Spurs home game then I think we'll push City close. It's a big 'if' though.

[Eeyore]

We won on the night, but I don't think it will feel like a win to anyone except Atalanta. It was a very poor showing - zero urgency and out of ideas. Nothing in any of our last games has given me confidence that we can win our next 6. It's fine to support and have faith, but if we are being brutally honest, we don't seem likely to win the next 3 never mind the next 6.

I struggle to see how anyone could genuinely believe otherwise. We look done.

I'll still be cheering us on win, lose or draw, but I've already given up on the league now, because it looks like the players have too.

We don't need to look at winning 6 on the run. We are overwhelming favourites for our next two games. Let's just take care of those games and see where we are.

[bornandbRED]

A win vs Fulham will perk up the fan base.

[Jean Girard]

A win vs Fulham will perk up the fan base.

Would love to hammer someone just to get it all out of our system. We need a big dirty change of energy. The season's not over yet - and if we don't win the title it'd still be nice to go out on a Klopp's Greatest Hits of attacking football.  End in a scream of feedback while smashing up the stage, instead of on a sad ballad and a whimper.

Everyone got so wrapped up in riding the emotion of the leaving announcement, fans, players, probably even Jurgen - that as soon as the bubble has been burst a bit reality has gotten in on top of us. Legs have gotten heavier, decision making slower, I'm sure some lads are thinking about their futures. The positivity of spring where we were raging against injuries and playing the kids has turned into a bit of a slump - the type a slump that comes with a bit of uncertainty and doubt. 

We need to get smiles back. Hammer Fulham, then enjoy the last few games - that is what this doctor is ordering.

[fridgepants]

It's almost like the opposite of last season, where there was that 9-0 at Bournemouth and then everything crumbled a bit.

Get the lads on as much mate as humanly possible. IV it. Stick it in the water bottles. Pay a cropduster to spray it from the clouds over Craven Cottage.

[lionel_messias]

Yep, just beat Fulham is the mantra.

Simply that because following that Everton and this team can thrive off the emotion of that game.

And shooting practice! I want all the strikers hitting 1000 shots a day in training.

[alonsoisared]

Someone get the fucking asthma inhalers out for the love of god.

[Mister Flip Flop]

We don't need to look at winning 6 on the run. We are overwhelming favourites for our next two games. Let's just take care of those games and see where we are.

On present form we are nowhere near overwhelming favourites for our next two games. Our league position suggests we are okay fair enough but there are so many other factors not least including the fact Fulham haven't played this week and we look absolutely devoid of energy the last few weeks.

[Kopenhagen]

I mean, the wheels looked well and truly off last season in the first half against Arsenal (H), and then we got a result and things turned around. Much of the support had basically given up then, too.

Again, like in that Arsenal game, I think Trent will determine how things go - whether we have a sign of life or we're done. If he's fit and can get into form, there is hope.

We just need to dog a win against Fulham and take it from there.