Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[Sangria]

Brexit was a legal requirement in March did it happen ?
and you are still skating around the point i was making:
Are there major problems in society right now created by Tory Policies?
Would you like to see a party in power with policies to fix a lot of the problems in our society?
Would that party who might fix a lot of the problems now in society be labour no matter who the leader is?

The fear of Brexit right now is a major factor in society but it is not the only show in town and while people obsess about nothing but brexit the tories are literally getting away with murder.

So i regard getting rid of the Tories ASAP as far more important than Brexit which may or may not happen in 6 months time.

Parliament has not dealt with anything other than Brexit for the last 3 years, going back to before the last GE. All levels of government have commented on this, noting that everything else has been sidelined until this issue is dealt with. And yet you say that I should ignore it. And you point to March as an argument that the Brexit deadline is nothing to worry about. If it's escaped your notice, the EU have said that there will be no further extension unless we change our position. May is stepping down, and all prospective replacements are adamant on the October deadline being stuck to.

You've voted non-Labour in the past. Why did you enable the Tories, to apply your argument? Why were you entitled to vote non-Labour and be justified in doing so, but my doing so is enabling an evil Tory government?

[Welshred]

The next general election is in 3 years and there's not a hope in hell that the Tories are going to be calling a snap election especially with the polls being so tight so give that one up. Does that mean you're happy to stand still and let them tear the country to shit for the next 3 years just so there's a small chance Corbyn can in an election in 3 years?

Brexit is far, far more important than anything else going on right now and whilst there's no sigh of a GE there should be opposition to it.

[killer-heels]

The next general election is in 3 years and there's not a hope in hell that the Tories are going to be calling a snap election especially with the polls being so tight so give that one up. Does that mean you're happy to stand still and let them tear the country to shit for the next 3 years just so there's a small chance Corbyn can in an election in 3 years?

Brexit is far, far more important than anything else going on right now and whilst there's no sigh of a GE there should be opposition to it.

There will be an election in the not too distant future. I would imagine there will be one within the next 12 months. Close to no chance the Tories seeing out the next three years without one.

[Welshred]

The Tories are some of the worst infighters around but when it comes to keep power they are on the same wavelength and it doesn't matter who the leader is. No Tory is going to vote for a General Election which could see them lose power.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

The Tories are some of the worst infighters around but when it comes to keep power they are on the same wavelength and it doesn't matter who the leader is. No Tory is going to vote for a General Election which could see them lose power.

unless they know whoever is in power is fucked so let them take the blame

[BoRed]

The Tories are some of the worst infighters around but when it comes to keep power they are on the same wavelength and it doesn't matter who the leader is. No Tory is going to vote for a General Election which could see them lose power.

Both Hammond and Greening (as well as others) said today they'd vote for no confidence in the government if the next PM pushes for no deal. No idea if we can trust them, but I'd say it's likely we'll have another election before Brexit takes place (perhaps not before October, but then Brexit will be postponed again).

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Yeah, but I'm just making the point that Maybot is actually worse than a robot. A truly terrible human being. Don't worry, I was not taking your joke too seriously - and neither was I being serious.

Data is an android, not a robot.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Data is an android, not a robot.

I know. Just roll with it.

[lamad]

The Tories are some of the worst infighters around but when it comes to keep power they are on the same wavelength and it doesn't matter who the leader is. No Tory is going to vote for a General Election which could see them lose power.

Looking at headlines on the net earlier today my mind made me read the Guardian's line 'biggest contenders' re. the Tory candidates as 'biggest offenders'. Freud would have been proud!

[Skeeve]

i do not disagree with many of your points but brexit as bad as it will be is not now and now people are on the streets in massive numbers and we have a massive increase in suicides and the NHL is on its knees so we need different policies for these people now rather than the lest worse option for a still possibly  6 months in the future Brexit, so again i ask do you really not want labour policies to be at the forefront for the next govt no matter who is the leader or would you just let the tories continue breaking our society?

While labour remains a brexit party, there is not enough difference between the two of them because the impact of brexit will be greater than any other policies, at least with the tories still in charge they might at least be the ones to get the fallout from this monumental idiocy and a chance for labour to recover once they divest themselves of Corbyn and any other pro-brexit idiots.

[filopastry]

For what its worth I think in the opposite of the last GE campaign, Labour will do very poorly over the course of the campaign for  the EU parliamentary elections.

An election primarily about European issues that shines a light on the Labour leadership's division on the subject isn't likely to play out too well for them.

Personally, if Labour don't come out in favour of a second ref or revocation clearly and decisively, in all circumstances, before the European elections I hope they get fucked badly in favour of giving a mandate to parties who are willing to take a clear stance on that issue.

The only way the EU elections matter is if we end up staying in the EU, and if Labour aren't pushing for that, I hope they get pushed out of the way in favour of those who are. Otherwise this election is just going to be portrayed as another mandate for "Leave"

Let me enjoy a rare post on here that has actually aged well, as opposed to the usual shite I post

On a serious note though I think it has to be a concern for Labour not just how bad the result was but that they actually started the campaign from an ok position according to polling but it just got worse as time went on, a longer campaign would probably have seen even worse results. Realistically their current policy must be dead now.

[PaulF]

Let me enjoy a rare post on here that has actually aged well, as opposed to the usual shite I post

On a serious note though I think it has to be a concern for Labour not just how bad the result was but that they actually started the campaign from an ok position according to polling but it just got worse as time went on, a longer campaign would probably have seen even worse results. Realistically their current policy must be dead now.

HOPEFULLY , the leadership have seen the division. IF they get behind remain and become their flagship, they will lose brexiters but gain many , many more remainers. Brexiters have UKIP\Tories\Farrage to back. Remainers have noone.  IF labour could steal the libdem vote....

[Asam]

Corbyn has fucked up an open goal, the Labour Party and huge parts of the country (and almost the entire youth vote) want to remain, you cannot bring two completely opposed views and unify the country on the topic of Brexit, it is a binary choice, in the mind of the electorate politicians are highly distrusted, what people want is clarity (Brexit party or Bollocks to Brexit) by trying to appease both sides he's shit the bed.

I hope to fuck we don't leave in October and we do get to vote in an election or referendum but in either of those events he should change course to a clear remain platform or step aside as he will not beat Boris (who is the current favourite) in a million years with his current strategy, the only platform to beat Boris on is a remain one

[oldfordie]

You are being ridiculous. There is no way the Labout Party could win an election now - certainly not with a working majority. Until Corbyn and his supporters are verifiably gone from the party, most of those who have voted for Remain parties will not return to the fold. Many, no matter what might changes occur within the Labour, will never return. Your boy has (and those around him, his supporters, and you) have destroyed the Labour Party - if not permanently, probably for at least a generation.There is no such thing as a 'soft Brexit'. This is certainly true for an imagined Labour Party Brexit, since Corbyn too insists on the end to freedom of movement. You do understand, don't you, that: 1) the end of freedom of movement also ends your freedom of movement (not just Eastern Europeans (Europe's 'brown people' for many voters - including Lexiteers - in the UK)); and 2) there is no Single Market access without freedom of movement, capital,  goods and services.FFS. No, an imagined comprise 'soft Brexit' means that no one will be happy. The better option is to revoke Article 50 and have just 40% or so of the population pissed off, but for them to remain relatively wealthy. They won't appreciate just from they have been saved, but such is life.There was probably never a majority in the Parliament for Brexit, even before the last election. And, you conveniently forget that Corbyn always has been in favour of Brexit, even whipping Labour MPs to support it when necessary (and when he felt he could get away with it). Corbyn is an absolute cretin and c*nt. Fuck him.For the reasons I just outlined, above, you final statement is illogical and ridiculous. Of course, as usual, you will fail to reflect upon any of the points I have raised. You probably will not even bother to read them - instead, posting more propaganda and nonsense.

A general election could well happen, Parliaments stagnation has resulted in us wasting this extension. A new Tory leader just in time for the Parliamenty holidays of 6 weeks, then the parties have their conferences for 3 weeks taking us into September, the only choices we will have then are to leave with no deal or to ask the EU for a further extension, I wouldn't take this extension as a formality either. the EU will want a good reason to extend. I imagine Parliament will be split down the middle, some very angry Tory politicians against no deal will threaten the Tory PM with supporting a no confidence vote if he refuses to ask for this extension, Corbyn will call for a vote of no confidence and it maybe won if the PM doesn't back down and ask for a further extension. not that this will help the Labour party or the Tories, they will both face a backlash.

[Jiminy Cricket]

A general election could well happen, Parliaments stagnation has resulted in us wasting this extension. A new Tory leader just in time for the Parliamenty holidays of 6 weeks, then the parties have their conferences for 3 weeks taking us into September, the only choices we will have then are to leave with no deal or to ask the EU for a further extension, I wouldn't take this extension as a formality either. the EU will want a good reason to extend. I imagine Parliament will be split down the middle, some very angry Tory politicians against no deal will threaten the Tory PM with supporting a no confidence vote if he refuses to ask for this extension, Corbyn will call for a vote of no confidence and it maybe won if the PM doesn't back down and ask for a further extension. not that this will help the Labour party or the Tories, they will both face a backlash.

Well, I am open to discussion as to whether or not there will be a GE in the next few months or so / by the end of the year / any date before it is mandated. After all, it is a matter of opinion. But my real point was that Jizza just posts propaganda, memes and tropes from his small bubble of cultists, never attempting to engage in discussion. Of course, he failed to respond to me and my points, just as he always does, with anyone and everyone who ever challenges what he posts here. Jizza is in a cult.

[PatriotScouser]

A general election at any point from October 2019 to March 2020 is almost a certainty.

[oldfordie]

Well, I am open to discussion as to whether or not there will be a GE in the next few months or so / by the end of the year / any date before it is mandated. After all, it is a matter of opinion. But my real point was that Jizza just posts propaganda, memes and tropes from his small bubble of cultists, never attempting to engage in discussion. Of course, he failed to respond to me and my points, just as he always does, with anyone and everyone who ever challenges what he posts here. Jizza is in a cult.

Yeah,it is a cult. it's obvious to all that Corbyn has to stand down but this will taken as his critics using Brexit to attack him. theres not much hope of turning the party around now if the priority is keeping Corbyn as leader rather than actually stopping the hard right from ripping the country to pieces.
am not saying a GE is going to happen soon only that it is possible.

[jepovic]

A general election at any point from October 2019 to March 2020 is almost a certainty.

Why? Both tories and labour would crushed. More than half of the MPs would be kicked out. It would be suicidal.

[Asam]

Why? Both tories and labour would crushed. More than half of the MPs would be kicked out. It would be suicidal.

The new Tory PM would have no mandate or support in parliament to take the country out of the EU and leave with no deal, the existing deal will not be renegotiated unless there’s an extension which allows the U.K. to vote either in a general election or second referendum, there is absolutely no incentive for the EU to allow an anti EU party dictate terms as this would send a signal to the far right across Europe, the EU will make sure the new Tory leader is even less successful than May imo.

[Sangria]

The new Tory PM would have no mandate or support in parliament to take the country out of the EU and leave with no deal, the existing deal will not be renegotiated unless there’s an extension which allows the U.K. to vote either in a general election or second referendum, there is absolutely no incentive for the EU to allow an anti EU party dictate terms as this would send a signal to the far right across Europe, the EU will make sure the new Tory leader is even less successful than May imo.

What mandate would the new Tory PM need? All they need to do is occupy time with one activity after another, and Brexit will happen by default. Both the Tories and the Labour leadership are aiming for this.

[filopastry]

Why? Both tories and labour would crushed. More than half of the MPs would be kicked out. It would be suicidal.

A new tough talking Brexit leader for the Tories should consolidate a lot of the hard Brexit vote, there has been some speculation that Frottage and Johnson have basically been working together on this.

It might be enough to get a majority in Parliament if the remain vote Remains split (ie Labour continue to try to sit on the fence)

[WhereAngelsPlay]

A general election at any point from October 2019 to March 2020 is almost a certainty.

Not a chance,the Tories have zero reasons to call a GE,they already hold the power.

[Sangria]

Not a chance,the Tories have zero reasons to call a GE,they already hold the power.

I think that the argument is that they no longer hold a mandate and thus should work with Jeremy to give him the mandate instead.

[filopastry]

Not a chance,the Tories have zero reasons to call a GE,they already hold the power.

They don't hold that much power, they barely have a functioning government.

Agree it would be a big gamble though

[Sangria]

They don't hold that much power, they barely have a functioning government.

Agree it would be a big gamble though

They hold quite a lot of power. Namely the fact that the last GE was held in 2017, and thus the next is not due until 2022. The other key mandate is the agreement with the EU that Brexit will happen on 31st October. Combine those two, and what the respective leaders (prospective in the Tories case) do makes sense to them.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

They don't hold that much power, they barely have a functioning government.

Agree it would be a big gamble though

No10 is the power and they're not giving that up & won't risk shit until they've completely fucked the country Brexit style & when Brexit is done Labour or namely Corbyns name will be rightly worse than it is now,then they may call an election.

Labour need to fuck that charlatan off now to stand any chance of winning that GE.

[jepovic]

The new Tory PM would have no mandate or support in parliament to take the country out of the EU and leave with no deal, the existing deal will not be renegotiated unless there’s an extension which allows the U.K. to vote either in a general election or second referendum, there is absolutely no incentive for the EU to allow an anti EU party dictate terms as this would send a signal to the far right across Europe, the EU will make sure the new Tory leader is even less successful than May imo.

So? A GE wouldn't solve any of those problems,and it would create an even more divided parliament. It might force Labour to get rid of Corbyn, who has been so useful for the tories. It's suicide.

[TheShanklyGates]

Election Maps UK
‏ @ElectionMapsUK

EU Parliament Voting Intention:

LAB: 38% (+13)
CON: 23% (-1)
BXP: 10% (+10)
LDM: 8% (+1)
UKIP: 8% (-19)
CHUK: 4% (+4)
SNP: 4% (+2)
GRN: 4% (-4)

Via @HanburyStrategy, 5-8 Apr.
Changes w/ 2014

[Red-Soldier]

Jezza's Jizza has been really quiet today

[Welshred]

The Tories getting absolutely twatted in the EU elections puts a GE as far away as it has been for a while. They'll get annihilated in that was well and lose the keys to number 10, which is all they care about right now. We're not having one until 2022.

[OOS]

Hypothetically, there is a GE. What is Labours brexit policy?

Leave the EU, but remain in the customs union and single market?

[ShakaHislop]

Hypothetically, there is a GE. What is Labours brexit policy?

Leave the EU, but remain in the customs union and single market?

They don't support keeping freedom of movement and want close "access" to the single market, not membership of it.

[Mag Hull]

Owen Jones bemoaning the public's rejection of Shroedinger's Brexit:

"If there was an election this year, Labour would put a confirmatory referendum with the option of remain in its manifesto, and on The Andrew Marr Show last week, Corbyn himself publicly more or less said the party would back a public vote on any deal."

Glad we cleared that up then; the Defence rests.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/27/second-referendum-labour-corbyn-leave-remain-tories

[ShakaHislop]

Owen Jones still pushing Shroedinger's Brexit:

"If there was an election this year, Labour would put a confirmatory referendum with the option of remain in its manifesto, and on The Andrew Marr Show last week, Corbyn himself publicly more or less said the party would back a public vote on any deal."

Glad we cleared that up then; the Defence rests.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/27/second-referendum-labour-corbyn-leave-remain-tories

No chance of me responding to the Guardian's begs for donations at the end of all of their articles while they give employment to cranks like Jones and Dawn Foster.

[TepidT2O]

Corbyn comes out with the same old wishy washy Bollocks.

He’s actually learned nothing has he? Nothing.

He’s just been wiped out, and he’s keeping on with  the shit

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Corbyn comes out with the same old wishy washy Bollocks.

He’s actually learned nothing has he? Nothing.

He’s just been wiped out, and he’s keeping on with  the shit

hes surrounded by idiots on the payroll telling him things are fine

[TepidT2O]

hes surrounded by idiots on the payroll telling him things are fine

He’s an idiot himself.

Monumentally incompetent.

And it’s years since we first warned that he was utterly incompetent (I top of just being spectacularly wrong).

And now?  Three major elections in a row where he’s lost seats... against this shower of shit, and still some question it.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

He’s an idiot himself.

Monumentally incompetent.

would say he’s worse than that

[ShakaHislop]

This is genuinely interesting from McDonnell. Basically saying there should be a public vote in all circumstances (either on a deal, or to stop a no deal) and downplaying the likelyhood of a GE happening (likening Tory MPs voting for one as turkeys voting for Christmas)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-48424278/john-mcdonnell-brexit-needs-to-go-back-to-the-people

[Mutton Geoff]

hes surrounded by idiots on the payroll telling him things are fine

All earning probably a lot more money than you ( not bad for an idiot is it


On another note the obsession with some in here about Dave even to the point of quoting his stuff on twitter is so hysterically funny in my opinion, especially as Dave probably doesnt give a shit about what any of you think.