Topic: Mohamed Salah - Best in the World *

[kaesarsosei]

Its a pretty unprecedented drop-off. I honestly can't remember the last time he tried to kick a ball and actually made a good contact with it. People joke about our strikers having the yips, but this genuinely is the closest thing I can think of to football yips. We know his pace has gone but his finishing and assists, until January, were still as good as ever. Without any of that we have nothing.

If we want to be brutally honest, we are lucky this has happened now and not in September. I don't think Edwards will be shy about making the right decision this summer.

[deano2727]

Finishing aside, as I'm sure he will still score goals next season, he has lost his X factor on the wing for a couple of years now. He rarely takes on his man, let alone beat him.

I think we should be looking to get in a solid goalscoring number 9 to replace his goals (and the lack of goals elsewhere). and get a more traditional winger to replace Salah.

[jillcwhomever]

People are overstating the pace thing. Salah hasn't been rapid for a couple of years at least. He had found a way to compensate for that and still be a really good attacker.

What we're seeing since his return from injury is something else entirely. He seems completely shorn of all confidence, is getting physically bullied in most games, honestly doesn't have any spark whatsoever. Our one decent performance in the past six weeks came when he was benched.

I don't think I've ever seen such a drop off, especially for such an extended period and at such an important time. Pace is only a small factor.

Of all the numerous opinions on Salah, I actually agree with this the most. His pace has gone off, but he's been clever in being able to adapt to allow for that in the last couple of seasons. But his confidence seems blown away at the moment, and that's the concern. It's also hard with how you deal with it, leave him on the bench and it gets no better. Play him and he is still struggling anyway, I don't know what the best solution is at the moment. Salah like all players will have their own fears about their futures as well, it will be an unsettling time for the players as well, as to where they fit in going forward.

[alonsoisared]

I know I'm in the minority but I feel that confidence knock of the double Senegal defeats in 2022 coupled with decline in pace and strength has changed his game too much to be our 400k pw talisman. I'm grateful for all he's done. I've sung his name I've screamed love at him in the stands and if I ever met him id kiss his feet and buy him a mango lassi. He is up there with the greatest of all time.

But this morning I've watched his goals from 21/22 onwards again, to see if I've just been unfair. And I haven't. I know he posts good numbers relative to the rest of the squad but that was the system we build, to suit him, and he is no longer the diamond at the top we can rely on.

21/22 he won the golden boot. Can't turn my nose up at that can I? His opening goal at Norwich a great finish from edge of the box. He doesn't do that any more. His fourth a volley he watched onto his foot which he snatches at these days. Omg that twisty goal vs city. And again the next goal vs Watford that's beyond belief. The manc hat trick in October. Racing away from Coleman at woodison.

Then he went to Afcon and when he came back he scored in five of fifteen games. Three of those seven goals were pens, the last one was scraped over the line vs Wolves. He was decent vs the mancs though.

So in that season he went from super hero producing moments of excellence on a regular basis to fairly absent.


22/23 season. He gets a few in the CL group stage to be fair but in the league it's the Fulham goal that bounced off him. Then the goal at OT which was a rebound tap in header. That spin was good to beat city from halfway. Showing that old pace and strength. The rest of his goals were tidy but inside the box finishes. A fair few tap ins.  Not many pens to be fair to him but no finishes that I thought wow. Only he can do that.

Now this season. 5 pens and 12 from open play. All rap ins/tidy inside the box finishes except that open goal vs forest. One of his goals was old school salah vs west ham and his goal against arsenal was a salah finish but that's it.

The drop off point for Salah's very special talent is afcon 2022.

I'm inclined to agree. He's not been the same player since then but his instincts to be in the right place at the right time has allowed him to continue to post good numbers. Plus, being our key man, things are built around him. I don't think he gets these numbers at any other top level team because you'd have to build your team around him, which nobody will do for a 32 year old pacy winger who has lost his pace and doesn't dribble past anyone any more.

[decosabute]

Pace is huge. A wide forward without athleticism in our setup is awful for our system. Perhaps Salah has been on a downward curve athletically for a couple of years and it’s now reached a point where he can’t compensate in other ways. Perhaps his decline in pace has been matched with a decline in balance, strength, stamina etc and he can’t compensate for it.

I don't think he looks slower than he did earlier in the season. Salah hasn't been able to beat players with pace or run away from opponents in a foot race for a long time.

As recently as the middle of February, he came on in a game vs Brentford and looked like the best version of Mo Salah - swaggering, lively, creative, composed. Contrast that to the absolute shell of a player we've seen since his injury re-occurred in that game. Pace doesn't explain that enormous drop-off from less than 10 weeks ago.

His strength was one of his huge attributes up to recently - he now looks weak as piss against any opponent.
His confidence and willingness to take responsibility are gone.
His basic touch is awful.
He can't finish.

It's not just pace - it's like all of his abilities have gone to shit. He looks like a player who's injured to me, but I don't think that's the case, cos he wouldn't be picked if he was unfit. And he's had a lot of time since his injuries to get all his match fitness back. Instead he looks almost worse by the game.

[MonsLibpool]

On a positive note, at least this drop off happened when we already had something to show for the season. Teams learn how to play against you as the season progresses. Remember saying after the 0-3 game that Atalanta had exposed our weaknesses.

Going into next year knowing that he might not be up to it wouldn't be a good decision.  Club legend but nobody play at the highest level forever.

I don't see why we should willingly play with 10 men next year (defensively) and is the new manager strong enough to phase him out because that's what he'll need to do.

[Knight]

I don't think he looks slower than he did earlier in the season. Salah hasn't been able to beat players with pace or run away from opponents in a foot race for a long time.

As recently as the middle of February, he came on in a game vs Brentford and looked like the best version of Mo Salah - swaggering, lively, creative, composed. Contrast that to the absolute shell of a player we've seen since his injury re-occurred in that game. Pace doesn't explain that enormous drop-off from less than 10 weeks ago.

His strength was one of his huge attributes up to recently - he now looks weak as piss against any opponent.
His confidence and willingness to take responsibility are gone.
His basic touch is awful.
He can't finish.

It's not just pace - it's like all of his abilities have gone to shit. He looks like a player who's injured to me, but I don't think that's the case, cos he wouldn't be picked if he was unfit. And he's had a lot of time since his injuries to get all his match fitness back. Instead he looks almost worse by the game.

I'm not quite sure I agree re Salah's pace, I suspect it's been on a small downward curve for a while. I don't think it just dropped off to current levels a long time ago. Perhaps now it's reached the point where it's a significant issue. But athleticism more broadly is probably the issue, and perhaps that's where we agree. He looks weak, he doesn't look like he's got the balance or agility to dance through defenders in the box (or the confidence or inclination to even try). That 'cutting edge' or 'penetration' which we gained in spades once Mane and Salah arrived is no longer there with Salah and, as we saw before those 2, a Klopp 433 without genuine penetration from the wide forwards, is a pretty blunt object at times. But lots of his numbers are still really, really good so it's really tricky. I'm inconsistent on this because when it comes to Nunez I'm very much in the 'trust the good numbers' camp. But with Salah I'm in the 'his numbers are good but the eye test is very concerning' camp.
Forgive me nerds, for I have sinned.

[kloppismydad]

There's a Fabinho-like drop-off here, unfortunately.

I don't want to say too much because I love him and respect him, and will be eternally grateful for the memories he's given us.

One of the greatest Liverpool players ever.

[.adam]

Such a weird trait to come back from injury and suddenly be unable to strike the ball properly. Hits it like my toddler niece at the moment.

Fair to say that the days of him cutting in and battering it into the top corner are gone.

[Felch Aid]

I thought we'd see more of Salah in the middle as his pace declined but whenever he plays it's still down the right. That threat simply isn't there in the prem.

I think he's mentally not with it and I think he's hurt just as much as we are with Klopp quitting. He's the manager who got the most out of him.

In a slower league he might do well but given his age I don't see Edwards begging his agent for a new contract.

Absolute legend and his contribution to the first half of the season immense but the club have always moved on from players.

[MonsLibpool]

I thought we'd see more of Salah in the middle as his pace declined but whenever he plays it's still down the right. That threat simply isn't there in the prem.

I think he's mentally not with it and I think he's hurt just as much as we are with Klopp quitting. He's the manager who got the most out of him.

In a slower league he might do well but given his age I don't see Edwards begging his agent for a new contract.

Absolute legend and his contribution to the first half of the season immense but the club have always moved on from players.

The middle is more physical and he's not winning his duels.

It's time.

[VVM]

I know it's said every season but this is the first summer where I've thought he probably will go. Not because I think he's shit but he's on 32 and on 350k a week with 1 year left before he goes on a free. Sad to say but it just makes financial sense.

[RainbowFlick]

as he has lost some pace/dynamism with age, he was also forced to play wider to accommodate Nunez. i still think he'll be a top-class forward if we had centred our game around him. he shouldn't be played as a touchline winger.

i also think this current round of criticism is somewhat unfair. he came back from an extended injury (in Salah's terms) and was expected to instantly perform in a title challenge whilst the majority of the rest of the team also have been crap. his numbers would've looked more passable if we could finish chances - i don't think that's an age thing it's just a lack of confidence/form.

[Red-Soldier]

Afcon f*cked him, yet again.

If he does go, we shouldn't replace him with another player that we'll lose, so regularly.

[Fromola]

I'd rather if Juventus came in with a 100m euro bid obviously. answer me this if Saudi offer 100m and Juve offered 50m what would you do?

Juve? An Italian club would want a loan with an option to buy, same as any other player they come in for.

[Fromola]

I know it's said every season but this is the first summer where I've thought he probably will go. Not because I think he's shit but he's on 32 and on 350k a week with 1 year left before he goes on a free. Sad to say but it just makes financial sense.

There's another AFCON next year (although it runs well into August 2025).

I wouldn't give him another contract personally. He wouldn't take a much reduced wage and role, realistically.

Open to a sale in the summer, or let him see his contract out. If he stays, hopefully he can be more pre-AFCON than post.

[decosabute]

as he has lost some pace/dynamism with age, he was also forced to play wider to accommodate Nunez. i still think he'll be a top-class forward if we had centred our game around him. he shouldn't be played as a touchline winger.

i also think this current round of criticism is somewhat unfair. he came back from an extended injury (in Salah's terms) and was expected to instantly perform in a title challenge whilst the majority of the rest of the team also have been crap. his numbers would've looked more passable if we could finish chances - i don't think that's an age thing it's just a lack of confidence/form.

I think this excuse being made for him doesn't stack up at all.

He had already returned to the squad prior to the international break, then was left at home by Egypt to help get him fit. Missing a few weeks shouldn't result in an extended slump, especially when you've been given plenty of time to recover from it. He's also been subbed in a lot of games and dropped from the starting lineup for Fulham. He hasn't been overplayed.

And after all that, his performances aren't improving as we get further from his injury. If anything, they're getting worse.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Everyone loves Mo but he's had a couple of performances recently that have been pretty unforgiveable in fairness. He didn't seem to even want to try last night which is baffling given we are going for a title. I just can't understand it.

[jizzspunk]

Haven't read back pages & pages of commenting, not sure if the point has been brought up in conversation but he's a passenger around the pitch unless he's in possession, he doesn't compete for loose balls, turns 60-40s into 50/50s and 50/50s into 40/60s, doesn't compete for aerial duels, jumps out of potential contact if he feels he might get hit, this is not a new phenomenon, a minimum 2 Seasons he's been playing like this

Virgil eluded in lasts night interview..did we give everything? I'd like to know who he was referring too

[Lisan Al Gaib]

A couple of years ago, or maybe even last year, I wouldn't have dreamt about saying this or even thinking it but I wouldn't be upset if he did get sold in the summer. There's been a massive drop off in his ability the last few months.

[bornandbRED]

He just doesn’t look like he’s recovered anywhere near full fitness since the injury at AFCON. I guess only the club can make an informed decision as to whether that might come back next season.

[mullyred94]

He just doesn’t look like he’s recovered anywhere near full fitness since the injury at AFCON. I guess only the club can make an informed decision as to whether that might come back next season.

Was fine after that, wasn't when he got injured playing for Liverpool though.

Can't just blame the AFCON imo.

[bornandbRED]

Was fine after that, wasn't when he got injured playing for Liverpool though.

Can't just blame the AFCON imo.

You don’t just lose your ability to kick a football. He looks like he doesn’t trust his body at the moment - 0 sprinting, toe poking the ball, shirking physical confrontation. It’s odd to watch but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a fitness thing.

[mullyred94]

You don’t just lose your ability to kick a football. He looks like he doesn’t trust his body at the moment - 0 sprinting, toe poking the ball, shirking physical confrontation. It’s odd to watch but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a fitness thing.

My point was played against Brentford? Looked good got reinjured and has been poor since.

[Fromola]

Everyone loves Mo but he's had a couple of performances recently that have been pretty unforgiveable in fairness. He didn't seem to even want to try last night which is baffling given we are going for a title. I just can't understand it.

If Gakpo and Jota were on the bench there's no way Mo and Darwin are still on the pitch by 60.

Their performances are on them but keeping them on all game did them no favours. It was not happening for them at all.

[yes]

I know I'm in the minority but I feel that confidence knock of the double Senegal defeats in 2022 coupled with decline in pace and strength has changed his game too much to be our 400k pw talisman. I'm grateful for all he's done. I've sung his name I've screamed love at him in the stands and if I ever met him id kiss his feet and buy him a mango lassi. He is up there with the greatest of all time.

But this morning I've watched his goals from 21/22 onwards again, to see if I've just been unfair. And I haven't. I know he posts good numbers relative to the rest of the squad but that was the system we build, to suit him, and he is no longer the diamond at the top we can rely on.

21/22 he won the golden boot. Can't turn my nose up at that can I? His opening goal at Norwich a great finish from edge of the box. He doesn't do that any more. His fourth a volley he watched onto his foot which he snatches at these days. Omg that twisty goal vs city. And again the next goal vs Watford that's beyond belief. The manc hat trick in October. Racing away from Coleman at woodison.

Then he went to Afcon and when he came back he scored in five of fifteen games. Three of those seven goals were pens, the last one was scraped over the line vs Wolves. He was decent vs the mancs though.

So in that season he went from super hero producing moments of excellence on a regular basis to fairly absent.


22/23 season. He gets a few in the CL group stage to be fair but in the league it's the Fulham goal that bounced off him. Then the goal at OT which was a rebound tap in header. That spin was good to beat city from halfway. Showing that old pace and strength. The rest of his goals were tidy but inside the box finishes. A fair few tap ins.  Not many pens to be fair to him but no finishes that I thought wow. Only he can do that.

Now this season. 5 pens and 12 from open play. All rap ins/tidy inside the box finishes except that open goal vs forest. One of his goals was old school salah vs west ham and his goal against arsenal was a salah finish but that's it.

The drop off point for Salah's very special talent is afcon 2022.

This nails it but goals (of any variety) can paper over the cracks. Then some people are blinded by nostalgia and blind faith. He's been on a downward trajectory for some time now albeit from his pretty lofty peak of 3-4 years ago.
When he was injured in the final against Real it felt like that game was lost right there and then, that's how influential he was. It was immediately deflating. Nowadays his absence coincides with some of our best periods. Time waits for no man.

[rafathegaffa83]

Well said

[JackWard33]

There's just no drop off in his numbers at all.. in fact he's been better this season than last season (though obv the team's been better) 

I'm never totally against selling older players but he's put up a fantastic year .. there's an awful lot of recency bias around at the moment

[Black Bull Nova]

Well, in a year's time he's worth nothing. We have a choice to make, his name still means something in the same way Messi's and Ronaldo's did even when they were on the downward curve.


Just remember, this is a club that let Hunt, Keegan, Rush, Torres, Suarez, Mane, Owen, Fowler go and did not look back

[Knight]

There's just no drop off in his numbers at all.. in fact he's been better this season than last season (though obv the team's been better) 

I'm never totally against selling older players but he's put up a fantastic year .. there's an awful lot of recency bias around at the moment

Sometimes the age curve is a cliff. It’s probably recency bias - or he could be in free fall.

[Lynndenberries]

Sometimes the age curve is a cliff. It’s probably recency bias - or he could be in free fall.

Think he's still carrying the injury. He looks stiff and uninvolved, which has never been the case.

At 31 though, almost 32, it will lead to some uncomfortable conversations.

[RooiBefok]

Since AFCON with Salah NOT playing (12), we lost 1, drew 1 and won 83% of games played.

Since Salah’s RETURN from AFCON (12), we have lost 4, drew 2 and won 50% of games played.

In Salah’s LFC contract to date, in which Salah has not played (43), we have lost 4 games, drawn 5 and won 79% of games played.

[Robinred]

There's just no drop off in his numbers at all.. in fact he's been better this season than last season (though obv the team's been better) 

I'm never totally against selling older players but he's put up a fantastic year .. there's an awful lot of recency bias around at the moment

Do you pay no heed to the ‘eye test’ Jack? Genuine question.

[wemmick]

There's just no drop off in his numbers at all.. in fact he's been better this season than last season (though obv the team's been better) 

I'm never totally against selling older players but he's put up a fantastic year .. there's an awful lot of recency bias around at the moment

I think it's legitimate to look at his performances pre- and post-injury. A significant hamstring injury at his age really could be a cliff. We saw that with Gerrard and his groin. Lost his pace and power and it never came back. Mo's game has been built on pace and power and it's an open question if it will return with a good rest and a hardy pre-season.       

[Lynndenberries]

Not a dig at Jack but generally it's a problem with moneyball and judging people on numbers and metrics.

Chris Wood has more goals than Jota. I'd rather Jota.

That’s not a numbers or metrics problems, that’s an issue with the people interpreting / analyzing the numbers.

[JackWard33]

Do you pay no heed to the ‘eye test’ Jack? Genuine question.

Some… he hasn’t been as good post injury … but when a player has a consistent level then dips post injury I’m going to injury first before age.

[astowell1]

Powers wane.  It's the crappy nature of the short career of a footballer.

[Jookie]

Some… he hasn’t been as good post injury … but when a player has a consistent level then dips post injury I’m going to injury first before age.

I’d be inclined to do the same.

I doubt we have a player who was playing at a high level before injury, has a long lay off and is poor post injury but age is the determining factor in decline.

Might eventually be true but the most logical explanation is probably around rhythm post injury and struggles across the team.

I’d keep him next season even if it means running down his contract. Senior players could be really helpful transitioning to a new manager. Would be understanding if we sold him and re-invested so it’s not like I’m locked in on keeping him being the only sensible solution. Just my preferred one is to keep.

[Mister Flip Flop]

I’d be inclined to do the same.

I doubt we have a player who was playing at a high level before injury, has a long lay off and is poor post injury but age is the determining factor in decline.

Might eventually be true but the most logical explanation is probably around rhythm post injury and struggles across the team.

I’d keep him next season even if it means running down his contract. Senior players could be really helpful transitioning to a new manager. Would be understanding if we sold him and re-invested so it’s not like I’m locked in on keeping him being the only sensible solution. Just my preferred one is to keep.

Unfortunately we aren't in a position as a club to keep an asset like Mo another season to help a new manager. If selling him now means that's the difference between the manager bringing in one or two new strikers or not it's a no brainer. It's possible he doesn't even get the minutes next season and the media turns it into the "grumpy Salah on the subs bench" circus, that won't help anyone especially a new manager with those pricks at Sky asking him about it every week.

It's shit but sometimes it's best to do the hard thing and move on.

[telekon]

Try to get 50 million from the Saudis.

He's fallen off a cliff. One of the strangest and hardest declines I've ever seen in professional sport.

He's a club icon and will always be for the magic he has produced. But that is over now.