Topic: PL: Southampton 0-2 Liverpool (Bob 6'. Salah 42')

[pathetic]

Pathetic pathetic

That's all you've got? So you agree that Gini was "superb" and that it was a perfect performance? Of course, I am happy with the win, but I call a spade a spade and our midfield is not good enough.

Also, the reason why my name was changed to pathetic was because I called the club pathetic for playing around over a few million for the Salah signing. Guess I was proven right on that one.

[pathetic]

There was a 15-20 min spell in the 1st half where the game was end to end. You could argue that we didn't control the game well enough in that period.

In the 2nd half we literally controlled the pace of the game and snuffed out any threat Southampton had.With more clinical finishing the 2nd half was  epitome of what you want from an away performance in the Premier League. Very similar to the Huddersfield away game in that regard.

I really don't get where you are coming from in the above. Do you expect us to smash everyone 5 or 6-0 every week? If not, we haven't played well? Those type of performance are what makes title winners in 99% of leagues. I get the impression that too many people have been brought up on Barcelona circa 2008-2014 and think that's the way most team win a league. {probably doesn't help that this season City are playing in a similar vein.

In terms of Wijnaldum, I agree on the chance that he dummied. He should have hit it. I can see where the frustration comes from with regards to Gini. He can go 'missing'. He can be peripheral on occasions. Yesterday wasn't one of them. He played reasonably well. 7 out of 10 type of performance. If you go away from home  in the Premier League to the bottom half of the table team and everyone throws in a 7 out of 10 performance then you'll win the majority of the time. You don't need to be brilliant 100% of the time, in every match to be a good player or team.

I agree that we were fine in the second half, but the first half left a lot to be desired. It is a game of fine margins and if one of the chances they had went in, we would be looking at a totally different story. Kudos to Karius and VVD for helping us make this a comfortable victory.

Regarding Gini, we'll agree to disagree. All the midfield was peripheral yesterday though, so maybe I'll give him the pass. It was that Mane dummy which really pushed me over the edge. Emre Can was equally as bad, if not worse.

[Jookie]

That's all you've got? So you agree that Gini was "superb" and that it was a perfect performance? Of course, I am happy with the win, but I call a spade a spade and our midfield is not good enough.

But the midfield was good enough yesterday. It might not be long term but yesterday it was.

It's ironic that you say you 'call a spade a spade' when you don't exactly the opposite based the performances yesterday

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Wijnaldum was definitely improved yesterday - he actually drove with the ball on a few occasions which made a nice change - but he's still not at the level we need as a starter.

My main issues with him are his serious lack of conviction in the final third (as cited by that dummy) and his technical/mental incapability of switching the play from the middle third. The onus on Can or Henderson is too great in that regard.

[Jookie]

Regarding Gini, we'll agree to disagree. All the midfield was peripheral yesterday though, so maybe I'll give him the pass. It was that Mane dummy which really pushed me over the edge. Emre Can was equally as bad, if not worse.

My biggest bug bear with football supporters, but mainly Liverpool supporters, is that they think every player can play at the top of their game every week. Very, very few players can do that. No team plays brilliantly every week. I've seen Liverpool win leagues where they just done enough to win in a lot of games.

How some people view football has become distorted to me. Watching Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, PSG and, to a degree this season, City twat teams with significantly less resources every week has made football fans think this is the norm. This is the only way to win the league. It's not though. Not in England anyway. It's about performance like yesterday. Digging in, riding the odd storm and letting you class count in the end. It's not about pummelling every team, every game. In Spain and France it might be but not in England it isn't. Yesterday was perfect example of what you need to do away from home consistently to win the league. People are right to say it's a game of fine margins and yesterday proved why having a keeper perform well can make the difference. Why having absolute quality in the final 3rd can make the difference. Why having a functional midfield is OK most of the time.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

My biggest bug bear with football supporters, but mainly Liverpool supporters, is that they think every player can play at the top of their game every week. Very, very few players can do that. No team plays brilliantly every week. I've seen Liverpool win leagues where they just done enough to win in a lot of games.

Your wider point is definitely fair in terms of judging a team performance. We need more like yesterday and Huddersfield if we are going to challenge for titles.

But, on an individual basis, do title-winning sides have starters like Wijnaldum in midfield who only stand out every so often? I'd wager not very often. Our interiors in the 4-3-3 system need to offer a lot more at times, both offensively and defensively. Lallana in the first half of last season set the benchmark and hopefully Keita will do so once more next season.

[Alist0r]

If there was an issue with the midfield yesterday, I think it probably stemmed more from Chamberlain than it did Wijnaldum. They pushed Bertrand very wide and focused a lot of the play in the left half space behind Chamberlain. I’d have to watch it again, but it felt like Chamberlain’s positioning was off-sync with the rest of the midfield and I think that’s what caused us the problems in the first half.

That was Southampton’s only threat really, and we neutralised it much better in the second half. It was sill no surprise to see him be the first sub though, and we looked more solid when Milner came on. Still think he has some way to go to prove himself in that central role, but it’s early days yet.

[markedasred]

Over on saints web, someone has joked that they want to run Pellegrino over to get rid of him....

And someone else has reported him to the police..



Fucking hell, and I think it’s bad on here when we lose!

bobbins, south coast style

[harryc]

Gini was his usual average self.

Which when we are as comfortable as we were yesterday is fine but when we come up against real bus parkers his limitations in the final third are glaringly obvious.

1 goal and assist all season the same as Lovren!

[El Lobo]

Your wider point is definitely fair in terms of judging a team performance. We need more like yesterday and Huddersfield if we are going to challenge for titles.

But, on an individual basis, do title-winning sides have starters like Wijnaldum in midfield who only stand out every so often? I'd wager not very often. Our interiors in the 4-3-3 system need to offer a lot more at times, both offensively and defensively. Lallana in the first half of last season set the benchmark and hopefully Keita will do so once more next season.

Yes

If you go back through practically every title winning side there's at least one or two good midfielders who don't really stand out. I guess the issue is, there was pretty much always a top class CM in those teams which is what we do miss.

If we bought in another monster CM along with Keita, it wouldn't really matter if it was Hendo, Gini or Can they were replacing and the other two then remained.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

If you go back through practically every title winning side there's at least one or two good midfielders who don't really stand out. I guess the issue is, there was pretty much always a top class CM in those teams which is what we do miss.

I'm not saying they have to stand out as a key player per sé. I wouldn't necessarily want them to, either; I'd far rather our side is geared towards the front three than a midfielder, as United have arguably tried and mostly failed with Pogba at times.

But a starting midfielder at a top side should have clear, demonstrable key attributes which come to the fore in more matches than not. You could argue this is true for Henderson, Can and Lallana when they are fit and firing (though of course a talent like Keita looks an upgrade on all three). I don't think you can for Wijnaldum.

[sms1986]

Also, the reason why my name was changed to pathetic was because I called the club pathetic for playing around over a few million for the Salah signing. Guess I was proven right on that one.

Think we're getting his best years now regardless of when we signed him. Sure, we could have signed him a few years ago, but we have him now and we clearly are willing to spend the money as well (Keita, VVD).

[Walk on, walk on]

I think soton totally lost their pressure on us when he had to go off. Haven't seen him before, but they looked so much weaker without him.

Yes completely agree. He was running their midfield almost single-handedly. The last time I thought that of a Southampton midfielder while playing us, we bought him pronto (Lallana).

[12C]

Isnt this the “Liverpool are shite” thread?
https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=308407

The only threat they posed was through (ex) Plastic Bertrand, who is about their best player atm.
Once TTA worked him out and Can, chamberlain and Gini took it in turns to cover him, the threat was snuffed. The only worry I had was when Long came on, and combined with Atkinson up front, giving the diving cheat the chance of a penno.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Also, the reason why my name was changed to pathetic was because I called the club pathetic for playing around over a few million for the Salah signing. Guess I was proven right on that one.

Not really no. The Club played around over a few million so ended up signing him for a couple of million cheaper than what was originally quoted. So they were proven right to do what they did and you were proven very wrong for the pathetic comment.

Yesterday, Wijnaldum had the highest pass percentage of any starting Liverpool player and touched the ball nearly twice as much as AOC, who is basically asked to play the same role as him so is a good comparison. He was the only non-forward to make a key pass.

I really don't get what some people want from midfielders. Not everyone is going to be a Steven Gerrard. In games like this, Wijnaldum's job is basically to keep things ticking along, contribute defensively and feed the attackers. He did that perfectly, especially in the second half where our midfield was far from "abysmal".

[mrantarctica]

I'm not saying they have to stand out as a key player per sé. I wouldn't necessarily want them to, either; I'd far rather our side is geared towards the front three than a midfielder, as United have arguably tried and mostly failed with Pogba at times.

But a starting midfielder at a top side should have clear, demonstrable key attributes which come to the fore in more matches than not. You could argue this is true for Henderson, Can and Lallana when they are fit and firing (though of course a talent like Keita looks an upgrade on all three). I don't think you can for Wijnaldum.

Part of the problem for Gini is that he hasn't really stamped any different attributes to the players around him. If Gini is not in the side, then we don't specifically lose something. When we lose Hendo, we lose that passing range, leadership from the middle. When we lose Can, we lose a bit of flair and that ability to drive the ball forward from midfield. When we lose Lallana, we lose a skilful 1-touch player who orchestrates the press well and links the best with our front 3. The same actually goes for Ox at the moment, who hasn't really stamped himself on the team yet but at least has the chance to do so after a decent pre-season and more time learning our methods. Gini has been around for a while now, and really should be a key player in the team but he's just a deputy which kinda says it all for me. At the moment, Keita Hendo and Lallana would all start ahead of him if fit, and I suspect Ox probably brings a bit more in the attack department and a bit of flair to sit on the bench rather than Gini, meanwhile Milner is also a better defensive option to have on the bench because he can also play fullback.

Keita for me is more a Gerrard type player. A box to box midfielder who will be in amongst the action all the time, be strong on the ball, get involved and create chances and then drive into the box and score goals reasonably regularly. So far, everything he has done at RB Leipzig indicates that this is his style. Whether he's in that same level of class, or just plays in a similar all action style remains to be seen.

[Doc Red]

how come vvd has "virgil" on his shirt and not van dyke? sure isn't there rules and procedures to be followed here lads? whats next "fun bobby" on fun bobbys shirt? chaos lads. absolute chaos.

I read somewhere that it's due to an issue with his father, hence his reluctance to wear his father's family name on his shirt.
Couple of other players use their first name for a similar reason.

[johnj147]

more comfortable than i thought good stuff 

[Djozer]

That's all you've got? So you agree that Gini was "superb" and that it was a perfect performance? Of course, I am happy with the win, but I call a spade a spade and our midfield is not good enough.

Also, the reason why my name was changed to pathetic was because I called the club pathetic for playing around over a few million for the Salah signing. Guess I was proven right on that one.

I don't want to stick my oar in, but I actually thought Gini did pretty well yesterday. Agree about the rest of the midfield though, I thought Can and AOC had pretty poor games really. There was a lot of giving the ball away sloppily, I thought, although maybe it was all part of a cunning plan to ensure Southampton didn't just park the bus. I don't think it was though, I think they just didn't play particularly well.

Not that it matters as we won fairly easily in the end, but I actually thought we were shite in the first half and slightly fortunate to be ahead. All's well that ends well though.

[Djozer]

I love this kit too. Always like to see us in it for some reason. Could be the results, but just think we look good in all orange. I'd be quite happy to see us ditch the red altogether. The Mighty Marigolds - has a kuriously good ring about it.

Think I quite like this kit too. Well part of me doesn't because it's fucking hideous, but it is distinctive, and reminds me of that Maribor game when we scored seven or whatever it was. Klopp's Clementines.

[G Richards]

Three points, job done. Some good displays, but we were never at our best. VVD adds a lot of authority at the back which helps spread calm. There’s more to come from him and I expect the defence, including goalkeeper, to keep getting better and better and the clean sheet tally to increase.

Credit to Southampton, they are better than their current position. They had a lot of the ball, especially in the first half, and they played it around nicely and created a few chances. They were very unlucky to go in 2-0 down at halftime, but then again that’s the difference between a top side and a middling-bottom side. In boxing terminology Southampton had a good jab, but when push came to shove, we were the ones who delivered the knockout punches.

I liked the control we had in the second half. Southampton couldn’t get near us, and the only minor gripe was that we were a bit wasteful and should have added to the score line, but on the other hand there’s a big game coming up against Porto and conserving a bit of energy is no bad thing.

Oh, and Man Utd? Ha ha ha!

[PaulF]

Credit to Southampton, they are better than their current position. They had a lot of the ball, especially in the first half, and they played it around nicely and created a few chances. They were very unlucky to go in 2-0 down at halftime, but then again that’s the difference between a top side and a middling-bottom side. In boxing terminology Southampton had a good jab, but when push came to shove, we were the ones who delivered the knockout punches.


Oh, and Man Utd? Ha ha ha!

I read we had less than 45% possession.  Which seemed surprising for a game we were so comfortable in.

[Phil M]

I read we had less than 45% possession.  Which seemed surprising for a game we were so comfortable in.

They edged possession but it was more like 52% to them. They outpassed us but not by a great deal.

We let them have it in non-threatening areas and zones where we could press comfortably.

[Giono]

Part of the problem for Gini is that he hasn't really stamped any different attributes to the players around him. If Gini is not in the side, then we don't specifically lose something. When we lose Hendo, we lose that passing range, leadership from the middle. When we lose Can, we lose a bit of flair and that ability to drive the ball forward from midfield. When we lose Lallana, we lose a skilful 1-touch player who orchestrates the press well and links the best with our front 3. The same actually goes for Ox at the moment, who hasn't really stamped himself on the team yet but at least has the chance to do so after a decent pre-season and more time learning our methods. Gini has been around for a while now, and really should be a key player in the team but he's just a deputy which kinda says it all for me. At the moment, Keita Hendo and Lallana would all start ahead of him if fit, and I suspect Ox probably brings a bit more in the attack department and a bit of flair to sit on the bench rather than Gini, meanwhile Milner is also a better defensive option to have on the bench because he can also play fullback.

Keita for me is more a Gerrard type player. A box to box midfielder who will be in amongst the action all the time, be strong on the ball, get involved and create chances and then drive into the box and score goals reasonably regularly. So far, everything he has done at RB Leipzig indicates that this is his style. Whether he's in that same level of class, or just plays in a similar all action style remains to be seen.

Really funny that Gini is a “deputy” when he starts every match except when he is rested. I don’t think Klopp agrees with you that he doesn’t bring anything special. Too bad there aren’t stats for awareness, discipline and having a cool head. We just saw out a win with coolheaded professionalism. VVD was part of that for sure, but Gini was too as was Milner when he came on. Can and Ox are not cool heads.

I like Milner as a sub to see out games. He gets to come on against tired legs and get involved in attacks as defences open up.

[liversaint]

That's because you won't find many people agreeing with you (me included). I thought our midfield was abysmal. Absolutely no control and we let a dire Southampton team control and dictate the game.

The chance we had at the end were he left the ball for Mane instead of trying to score himself epitomises what an absolute gutless player he really is.

Thats an astonishing thing to take out of a comfortable 2-0 win 3 days ahead of an away game in the CL. Minimum energy expended, 3 points and seemingly no injuries, minutes for lallana. Winner in the appropriate user name stakes right there.

Teams win leagues in routine wins like those. The mancs have done it for years, used to be an LFC stock in trade. Fucking staggering what you have took out of it to be honest.

[the_red_pill]

Another interesting statistic we have scored the most away goals of any side in the top five European leagues.

And... Mo's equalled the record for goals scored with the left(19) in the league.
Rather useless, but there you go.

Still a lot of games to go!

[Alf]

How good were Bobby & Mo. Also I thought it was Virgil's and Loris Karius best performance for us thus far.

[Marty McFly]

Really funny that Gini is a “deputy” when he starts every match except when he is rested. I don’t think Klopp agrees with you that he doesn’t bring anything special. Too bad there aren’t stats for awareness, discipline and having a cool head. We just saw out a win with coolheaded professionalism. VVD was part of that for sure, but Gini was too as was Milner when he came on. Can and Ox are not cool heads.

I like Milner as a sub to see out games. He gets to come on against tired legs and get involved in attacks as defences open up.

Totally agree with this.

Thats an astonishing thing to take out of a comfortable 2-0 win 3 days ahead of an away game in the CL. Minimum energy expended, 3 points and seemingly no injuries, minutes for lallana. ... ...

Teams win leagues in routine wins like those. The mancs have done it for years, used to be an LFC stock in trade. Fucking staggering what you have took out of it to be honest.

And this.

Been watching us for far too long not to appreciate (a) an excellent “cog in the machine” type player, think Gini is underrated on here just because he’s reasonably good at everything without an outstanding attribute; and (b) a workmanlike, professional 3 points without the drama of having to score a shedload of goals, and actually having a save or two made by our keeper

Title winning sides have had both of these in spades over the years. Absent the freakishly consistent early season form of City, we’d be right in it this year.

Add a fully fit and on form Lallana back in our squad and I wouldn’t have to cack myself everytime a sliding challenge goes in on one of our front 3.

Everywhere else, I think we showed we’ve got enough until Keita and a PC replacement come in. Keeper TBC but at least Karius is staking a claim.

[Filler.]

Think I quite like this kit too. Well part of me doesn't because it's fucking hideous, ..

It's probably a tad too close to a day-glo orange I agree, but there's no excuse for not being able to see a team-mate in the peripherals.

[dudleyred]

What you talkin about Willis ! 😉

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. As you say a winning record in this spectacular kit!

Debut in Slovakia. Maribor 0 Liverpool 7.  Our biggest away win ever in Europe over 60 years.

West Ham 1 Liverpool 4
Stoke City 0 Liverpool 3
Arsenal    3 Liverpool 3
Soton.     0 Liverpool 2

But for a mad 6 minutes we would be 100% win. Early first goals as well.

Can't wait for our next outing in it. OT?

 

Tomorrow apparently

[pathetic]

Thats an astonishing thing to take out of a comfortable 2-0 win 3 days ahead of an away game in the CL. Minimum energy expended, 3 points and seemingly no injuries, minutes for lallana. Winner in the appropriate user name stakes right there.

Teams win leagues in routine wins like those. The mancs have done it for years, used to be an LFC stock in trade. Fucking staggering what you have took out of it to be honest.

Of course I'm happy with the win and the way the game went on. If we play like that against Porto tomorrow we will be taken to the cleaners though. Time after time giving them the ball once we win it back. Would I take a performance like that and a win for the rest of our games? Absolutely. But it's not gonna happen. Thankfully I know we won't play like that every game. I know it's a bit too pessimistic coming after that win but I've been hoping for big improvements to our midfield for a very long time now. Hopefully Keita and Can's replacement (if he leaves that is) help us in that regard.

[capt k]

Isnt this the “Liverpool are shite” thread?
https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=308407

The only threat they posed was through (ex) Plastic Bertrand,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTo79sPCVXA