Topic: General Election on June 8th

[Danny55]

I actually believed he would stand down as he must have known he wont be able to defend himself when the mud is thrown, no point in saying the media have it for him if he cant answer the accusations. so yeah, ive no idea why he thought he could win the respect of millions with so much baggage.
Brexit aside then yes, Labour should be well ahead in the polls.
Ive just heard a bit of news about tomorrows papers. The ex head of NATO has said if Corbyn wins Putin will pounce. so the press and the Torys now how have the perfect excuse to rake up his views on Trident etc to scare voters.

I think the fact Corbyn hasn't gone says more about his inner circle than it does him. He must have one hell of a reassuring group telling him it's all going to be okay given the amount of criticism he's taken. 

[cloggypop]

I was just keen to understand the origin (and if there was a basis for) that 'especially the centre left' line I'd seen pop up in a few places

The Dutch election perhaps. PvdA (Dutch Labour Party) were destroyed and now find themselves behind the Socialist Party and the Green Left party, both of which are more left leaning.

[Danny55]

no because Obama is miles ahead of Corbyn and his ilk in every single department

My point was more, could someone like Obama stand on a similar platform to what Corbyn is advocating and enjoy electoral success.

[Fiasco]

Plenty of polls have shown that a lot of what is being put forward by Labour is supported by the majority of the public. If we had a British Obama leading the Labour Party right now would we still be in the same predicament?

A British Obama? In what way do you mean? Obama as in his personality, the fact he's a wonderful orator with wit and a sense of confidence and assurance? Or Obama in relation to him being the first black President and what that meant given the historical (and unfortunately ongoing) struggle with racism and formerly slavery in the United States?

There is no British Obama and there will never be. We can have competent leadership though, and most realize that Corbyn isn't that man.

[Libertine]

My point was more, could someone like Obama stand on a similar platform to what Corbyn is advocating and enjoy electoral success.

[Bunter]

My point was more, could someone like Obama stand on a similar platform to what Corbyn is advocating and enjoy electoral success.

More I think about it, you just seem to need some charasmatic, handsome, media friendly fella like an Obama, Macron, Trudeau, David Miliband etc. and the electorate automatically get behind you without even bringing policy into it.

Image seems to amount to 80/90% of being electable nowadays.

[classycarra]

More I think about it, you just seem to need some charasmatic, handsome, media friendly fella like an Obama, Macron, Trudeau, David Miliband etc. and the electorate automatically get behind you without even bringing policy into it.

Image seems to amount to 80/90% of being electable nowadays.

Helps if you haven't talked shite (predominantly) for about thirty years beforehand too though.

Worth noting though that's election, and reelection was largely down to his image and branding too

[oldfordie]

I think the fact Corbyn hasn't gone says more about his inner circle than it does him. He must have one hell of a reassuring group telling him it's all going to be okay given the amount of criticism he's taken.

I agree with the opinion he's staying on till he completes his main mission, to get the number of nominations needed to stand for the leader election dropped.
Lot of truth in what you say though. he lives in a bubble where everyone cheers him on and tells him how exciting things are getting, the leadership debates were embarrassing, rousing cheers and applause as though he had knocked it out the ball park.

[Danny55]

A British Obama? In what way do you mean? Obama as in his personality, the fact he's a wonderful orator with wit and a sense of confidence and assurance? Or Obama in relation to him being the first black President and what that meant given the historical (and unfortunately ongoing) struggle with racism and formerly slavery in the United States?

There is no British Obama and there will never be. We can have competent leadership though, and most realize that Corbyn isn't that man.

As in the personality, someone that could cut through the shite the right wing media will inevitably throw at them. You look at the onslaught Obama faced in America and it didn't matter because when people listened to him they were inspired.

Let's say we get a 'competent' leader such as Yvette Cooper. I don't see how that results in a Labour victory. Her message, her demeanour, her personality... I just don't think that will have people racing to the polling stations.

You look at Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson's supposed popularity in the country and you can see how far having a personality can take you. For me that's what I'll be looking for in the next Labour leader. Policies don't even come into it if your image isn't to the electorate's liking.

[AA3JM21]

Vote Jeremy Corbyn

[filopastry]

Scottish Westminster voting intention:
SNP: 44% (-3)
CON: 33% (+5)
LAB: 13% (-1)
LDEM: 5% (+1)
(via Panelbase) Chgs. w/ Jan 2017

The Tories are really going to pick up some seats in Scotland if that proves to be accurate.

[The Gulleysucker]

Vote Jeremy Corbyn

He's not standing in my constituency.

[Danny55]

I agree with the opinion he's staying on till he completes his main mission, to get the number of nominations needed to stand for the leader election dropped.
Lot of truth in what you say though. he lives in a bubble where everyone cheers him on and tells him how exciting things are getting, the leadership debates were embarrassing, rousing cheers and applause as though he had knocked it out the ball park.

It's a pretty big bubble that's going to burst on the 8th of June for sure. The fall out is going to be interesting. How much Momentum try to cling on, what the response of the membership will be etc.

I think it's all immaterial. Hard left/centre left/red Tory etc, the main thing for the next Labour leader is that they come with no baggage and show a degree of competency in running a united party. Their policies or ideas won't even get a hearing if they fail to do that.

[Danny55]

The Tories are really going to pick up some seats in Scotland if that proves to be accurate.

Which will suggest the peak for the SNP has already been hit. Any notions of an independence referendum will surely die a death if the Tories pick up 10 to 15 seats north of the border.

[filopastry]

Apparently the fieldwork for the Survation poll was conducted a little later than the others (all Friday and Saturday) so Labour will be hoping that might be a genuine hefty move in their favour rather than just the usual methodological differences, although it did still show the Tories a bit stronger than the last Survation poll in January.

[Danny55]

More I think about it, you just seem to need some charasmatic, handsome, media friendly fella like an Obama, Macron, Trudeau, David Miliband etc. and the electorate automatically get behind you without even bringing policy into it.

Image seems to amount to 80/90% of being electable nowadays.

It would appear so. Of all Corbyn's flaws,  I think his worst is looking pissed off and running away from TV cameras. Such a bad look for someone who should be using every media opportunity to convey a positive image of himself to the country.

[Danny55]

Apparently the fieldwork for the Survation poll was conducted a little later than the others (all Friday and Saturday) so Labour will be hoping that might be a genuine hefty move in their favour rather than just the usual methodological differences, although it did still show the Tories a bit stronger than the last Survation poll in January.

Clutching at straws aren't we? Unless there's a recording of May saying she's going to drop a nuclear bomb on every school in Britain we're heading for a Tory landslide. To be honest, even if that recording did exist she'd probably still win by a larger majority than she's got now.

[oldfordie]

It's a pretty big bubble that's going to burst on the 8th of June for sure. The fall out is going to be interesting. How much Momentum try to cling on, what the response of the membership will be etc.

I think it's all immaterial. Hard left/centre left/red Tory etc, the main thing for the next Labour leader is that they come with no baggage and show a degree of competency in running a united party. Their policies or ideas won't even get a hearing if they fail to do that.

The fall out is going to be interesting, how will Momentum react. Max Shanley has already said Corbyn should not stand down even if Labour loose, so I assume they will all start saying Corbyn wasn't given a chance from day 1. what happens behind the scenes is another matter. they have to decide if all those Corbyn supporters will stay with Momentum if Corbyn goes, will they get behind a new candidate.
I totally agree with you m8, theres not much point in having right on your side if you keep losing the arguments why your right, it was very annoying to watch Corbyn ignore Cameron and Mays biting replys to his questions, he just moved on to his next question. he's improved over the last few weeks but the damage has been done.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Clutching at straws aren't we? Unless there's a recording of May saying she's going to drop a nuclear bomb on every school in Britain we're heading for a Tory landslide. To be honest, even if that recording did exist she'd probably still win by a larger majority than she's got now.

yeah true, shows strong leadership and all that...

My point was more, could someone like Obama stand on a similar platform to what Corbyn is advocating and enjoy electoral success.

id say it depends on the finer details and who s/he has behind him (I.e. A competent shadow cabinet) - someone like Obama if he were to come up with something like the free school meals they'd look at different ways to fund it than the vat one which was back of a fag packet type of thing and they'd definitely not have done things like the pay cap. As well as having a better idea on how the world works. A much, much better idea.

[Danny55]

The fall out is going to be interesting, how will Momentum react. Max Shanley has already said Corbyn should not stand down even if Labour loose, so I assume they will all start saying Corbyn wasn't given a chance from day 1. what happens behind the scenes is another matter. they have to decide if all those Corbyn supporters will stay with Momentum if Corbyn goes, will they get behind a new candidate.
I totally agree with you m8, theres not much point in having right on your side if you keep losing the arguments why your right, it was very annoying to watch Corbyn ignore Cameron and Mays biting replys to his questions, he just moved on to his next question. he's improved over the last few weeks but the damage has been done.

He was always far too passive in PMQs. You've got to be prepared to go off script and counteract whatever nonsense is being peddled from the opposite side but he didn't have the confidence in his own ability to do that.

I cannot foresee any scenario in which Corbyn stays following a defeat. My gut instinct is that the majority of the membership will shift back to the centre ground. I just hope it's someone with a purpose and a vision. As I said earlier, the likes of Cooper really don't excite me and I don't think she'd win an election, but maybe we need another Kinnock before we start doing that again, just to settle the party down and give it some credibility again.

[redmark]

Exactly. Corbyn was toast from the word go. The media defined him and the image stuck. Game over.

Plenty of polls have shown that a lot of what is being put forward by Labour is supported by the majority of the public. If we had a British Obama leading the Labour Party right now would we still be in the same predicament?

Corbyn has defined himself for decades. What piece of media reporting on him has been false or unfair?

Individual policies may be popular, but there is no narrative. There is no coherent message as to the objectives of the policies, how they tie together, how they will be paid for, no confidence in the ability to manage the economy (hardly surprising, with a Shadow Chancellor captured on video excited by the prospect of the imminent crisis of capitalism).

[Danny55]

yeah true, shows strong leadership and all that...
id say it depends on the finer details and who s/he has behind him (I.e. A competent shadow cabinet) - someone like Obama if he were to come up with something like the free school meals they'd look at different ways to fund it than the vat one which was back of a fag packet type of thing and they'd definitely not have done things like the pay cap. As well as having a better idea on how the world works. A much, much better idea.

Indeed. The lack of strategy/naievty from Corbyn's team was there for all to see from the start. They made a difficult job impossible very quickly.

[Danny55]

Corbyn has defined himself for decades. What piece of media reporting on him has been false or unfair?

Individual policies may be popular, but there is no narrative. There is no coherent message as to the objectives of the policies, how they tie together, how they will be paid for, no confidence in the ability to manage the economy (hardly surprising, with a Shadow Chancellor captured on video excited by the prospect of the imminent crisis of capitalism).

Well, the fact Labour's policies have barely got a hearing in the media probably has a lot to do with it.

I'd imagine the majority of people will have only read stories on his weak leadership and inability to unite the party. That's the main gripe with Corbyn across the country. It's the point that's repeated time and time again when voters are interviewed.

[TheShanklyGates]

If Labour loses they will challenge him and he will win again.

He only been in charge for around 2 years and hasn't made the changes that need to be made.

Kinnock lost 2 elections.

The only person that would have a chance to beat him would be another left winger not a fake one like Owen and then it would still be tough.

People keep saying hes a weak leader, hes has hard as nails.

I think the only time he would step down was if there was a leadership election and there was someone else up he would be happy to pass the baton onto.

But a long way to go yet in this election and Jeremy is off to flyer what ever the polls say.

Im really enjoying it.

Always knew you were a zealot but thought that deep down you did want was best for the country.

Now I know that you just think that this is all some big game and couldn't give a fuck about the consequences of indefinite Tory rule so long as your man keeps his job.

This stance is genuinely mad.

[oldfordie]

He was always far too passive in PMQs. You've got to be prepared to go off script and counteract whatever nonsense is being peddled from the opposite side but he didn't have the confidence in his own ability to do that.

I cannot foresee any scenario in which Corbyn stays following a defeat. My gut instinct is that the majority of the membership will shift back to the centre ground. I just hope it's someone with a purpose and a vision. As I said earlier, the likes of Cooper really don't excite me and I don't think she'd win an election, but maybe we need another Kinnock before we start doing that again, just to settle the party down and give it some credibility again.

I think he is passive but I dont think his lack of debating skills is down to being passive.
He's just bad at wining an argument and that's really what PMQT is about,wining arguments.
To be honest ive no idea what will happen if Labour get trounced. I just hope the left realize Corbyn lost because he was incompetent and full of baggage,I also hope everyone thinks Labour don't have to move to the right to get elected.

[Danny55]

I think he is passive but I dont think his lack of debating skills is down to being passive.
He's just bad at wining an argument and that's really what PMQT is about,wining arguments.
To be honest ive no idea what will happen if Labour get trounced. I just hope the left realize Corbyn lost because he was incompetent and full of baggage,I also hope everyone thinks Labour don't have to move to the right to get elected.

After what's coming in June I probably won't care which direction we move in if it means we start winning elections again.

[SP]

Well, the fact Labour's policies have barely got a hearing in the media probably has a lot to do with it.

I'd imagine the majority of people will have only read stories on his weak leadership and inability to unite the party. That's the main gripe with Corbyn across the country. It's the point that's repeated time and time again when voters are interviewed.

Because Corbyn did not do the media appearances to make them news. If you don't do the interviews, you don't get coverage. If you look at the belated policy launchs before the election was announced, they were covered. They simply had not done a proper policy launch before then.

[cloggypop]

He's usually better than May at PMQs but there's certainly room for improvement there. She's fucking shite at it and he should be destroying her there really. No surprise she is unwilling to do televised debates to a much larger audience. She isn't even taking questions from the public.

[Bunter]

The right wing media have embedded themselves in the public consciousness, as there is no way people can think they are the party to lead us forward.

This is why having a handful of pathetic parties to choose from in the current system is fucking over this country. 

[AaronSingh25]

The best the nation can hope for is the Conservatives don't get a massive majority, even remaining similar to as they are now.

Doesn't give May the biggest mandate ever, and doesn't wipe out Labour for the next leader to take them on in 5 years time, and provide effective opposition during the coming difficult years.

[AaronSingh25]

He's usually better than May at PMQs but there's certainly room for improvement there. She's fucking shite at it and he should be destroying her there really. No surprise she is unwilling to do televised debates to a much larger audience. She isn't even taking questions from the public.

He's utter shit in PMQ's.

[Trada]

Seeing you all like your polls

Tory lead is slashed in half after tax U-turn: Bombshell Mail on Sunday poll shows May plummeting by 11 points ...denting hopes of a landslide

    A poll put the Conservatives on 40 per cent, followed by Labour on 29 per cent
    It follows the threat to drop pledges to increase pensions and not taxes
    Mrs May said she will not abandon policy to spend 0.7 per cent on foreign aid
    She was put on the spot an an election hustings in Dudley, West Midlands

By Simon Walters Political Editor For The Mail On Sunday

Published: 22:01, 22 April 2017 | Updated: 04:50, 23 April 2017

[Trada]

[hide5seek]

Simple - Corbyn.

We have the most unpopular, incompetent, disorganised and shambolic leader of any party I can remember (bar the Bootle Meff) backed by a bunch of loons and no-marks like McDonnell, Abbott, Thornberry and Milne.

He was elected in spite of the warnings from anyone with an objective eye that he'd be a disaster due to thirty years of political baggage. And I have to admit that he's surprised me by exceeding all levels of incompetence I thought possible.

Add in Brexit (7.5 out of 10, invoking Article 50 the morning after and the three line whip) left Labour aligned with the Tories as Brexiteers and the field clear for the Lib Dems to be the only clear opposition in the biggest issue facing the country...

But hey, two leadership elections and a commitment to free school meals...

Can I steal this?

[Zeb]

Seeing you all like your polls

Tory lead is slashed in half after tax U-turn: Bombshell Mail on Sunday poll shows May plummeting by 11 points ...denting hopes of a landslide

    A poll put the Conservatives on 40 per cent, followed by Labour on 29 per cent
    It follows the threat to drop pledges to increase pensions and not taxes
    Mrs May said she will not abandon policy to spend 0.7 per cent on foreign aid
    She was put on the spot an an election hustings in Dudley, West Midlands

By Simon Walters Political Editor For The Mail On Sunday

Published: 22:01, 22 April 2017 | Updated: 04:50, 23 April 2017

That poll still has the Tories up 2 points (presumably taken from UKIP) and Labour static since their January one mate.

Their January poll:



Most of the other polls are showing a much stronger move from UKIP to the Tories in combination with the Labour vote collapsing. I'd expect the Tory press to push hard on "polls are closer than you'd think" angle too.

[OOS]

The Tories voted May over Leadsom. Labour Voted for Corbyn over Yvette Cooper.

Thats the difference between the two parties. Thats your 20 point lead.

[OOS]

He's usually better than May at PMQs but there's certainly room for improvement there. She's fucking shite at it and he should be destroying her there really. No surprise she is unwilling to do televised debates to a much larger audience. She isn't even taking questions from the public.

I think its in Labours advantage that Corbyn isnt on the telly. From speaking with people who are involved in Labour campaigns, Corbyn isnt anywhere on any labour material whereas Corbyn is on the front page of every Tory and Lib Dem leaflets/ posters.

[Red-Soldier]

The Tories voted May over Leadsom. Labour Voted for Corbyn over Yvette Cooper.

Thats the difference between the two parties. Thats your 20 point lead.

No they didn't.

Leadsom stood aside for the good of the party, as it would've created divisions within the Tories, and she's f*cking clueless.

The membership would have possibly picked her as leader, as they are extreme, right wingers, more so than the MPs.

[Medellin]

So Corbyn wants to add 4 days to the current 8 bank holidays here..has he given any thought for those whose employers take the bank holidays off their annual entitlement?
Sound..Nice one Jeremy,thats 4 days less flexible leave for those who are in this category.

[OOS]

No they didn't.

Leadsom stood aside for the good of the party, as it would've created divisions within the Tories, and she's f*cking clueless.

The membership would have possibly picked her as leader, as they are extreme, right wingers, more so than the MPs.

Okay, shouldn't have said voted. Point still stands.