Topic: Rafa knocks back contract

[shanklyboy]

Sorry to sound a bit obvious.....but even though i dislike the yanks as much as anyone....... is it not true that like it or not they are the employers and Rafa is one of their employees.

Since when has an employee had total control of their bosses finances?

There's that fucking hyped up shitty mantra again!

People keep using it and it hasn't been said by Benitez........only the media gobshites and increasingly on here by our own fans.

[scatman]

Rafa needs more control.

The main thing irking him is the Academy setup, Piet Hamberg was brought in, but apparently he does not get on well with the other youth coaches. Rafa want's control over the academy so he can decide what youngsters are bought in, as of now he has no say in what youngsters are signed, only a say in whether or not they can be moved into the reserves.

SA and AW have complete control of their transfers. Peter Hill-Wood has mentioned many a time that Arsenal have £30m to spend on whoever Wenger chooses but Arsene chooses not to spend. SA identifies his target - budget allowing and Gill goes off and does whatever possible to get that player.

Rafa on the other hand tells Parry who he wants, for e.g. Dani Alves, we have a budget of £15m. Rafa of course would push to make sure that he could get Alves at whatever cost upto £15m. Parry on the other hand thinks we could save some money here and keep a bit of our budget, we'll only bid £7m. Seville wanted £12m, the most Parry wants to pay is £10m despite the fact we have a budget of £15m and this is the only signing Rafa wants. Another example has to be Cristiano Ronaldo, Liverpool baulked at the £7.5m quoted price after scouting him for months, Gill heads out to Portugal on the instruction of SA who having seen Ronaldo playing at firsthand in a friendly a week or two previously and pays £12m, what Sporting wanted, and get's the player. (Obviously we hate the c*nt, I'm sure it would be different if he played for us though and we would have loved the fact he got Rooney sent off)

See the difference? SA and AW have total control over their budgets and their academies, they don't have a Director of Football at their club. Whilst here Rafa has an idiot who thinks he's a DoF as well.

[the_red_pill]

Regardless. Rafa's prolly got some of what he wanted. Hicks says he sees Rafa here for years and also says they are willing to negotiate.

Sounds promising and the story should fade again.

[Cadno]

What is it about is it all about Rafa benitez or is about Liverpool Football Club playing football .

Because all i have seen for a week now is rafa this and rafa that nothing about the games coming up .

Yes but this takes all the pressure off the club.  Rafa is taking all the flak.  It was what Maureen was reknowned for.

[scatman]

Yes but this takes all the pressure off the club.  Rafa is taking all the flak.  It was what Maureen was reknowned for.

exactly what i said earlier

for 2 weeks in a row now, the attention is on the manager, this is where the team have let him down, they are top of the league, he is pushing media attention onto himself and off them and they still didnt get the 3 points last weekend which hopefully will be different on Monday night.

[the_red_pill]

Gill does what he is told when it comes to transfers.

Exactly- which is what should happen here to a large extent.

United well run? Not one person at United has the balls to stand up to Rednose and he signs whoever he wants. In the meantime, they're ~800-900million in debt. Whiskey breath just keeps on spending. What does he care? He's retiring in a few years and all he wants is to 'knock us of our fucking perch'. Granted he's built a squad that can challenge for years, but its quite a mighty amount of debt they're in.

[jambutty]

Rafa needs more control.

The main thing irking him is the Academy setup, Piet Hamberg was brought in, but apparently he does not get on well with the other youth coaches. Rafa want's control over the academy so he can decide what youngsters are bought in, as of now he has no say in what youngsters are signed, only a say in whether or not they can be moved into the reserves.

SA and AW have complete control of their transfers. Peter Hill-Wood has mentioned many a time that Arsenal have £30m to spend on whoever Wenger chooses but Arsene chooses not to spend. SA identifies his target - budget allowing and Gill goes off and does whatever possible to get that player.

Rafa on the other hand tells Parry who he wants, for e.g. Dani Alves, we have a budget of £15m. Rafa of course would push to make sure that he could get Alves at whatever cost upto £15m. Parry on the other hand thinks we could save some money here and keep a bit of our budget, we'll only bid £7m. Seville wanted £12m, the most Parry wants to pay is £10m despite the fact we have a budget of £15m and this is the only signing Rafa wants. Another example has to be Cristiano Ronaldo, Liverpool baulked at the £7.5m quoted price after scouting him for months, Gill heads out to Portugal on the instruction of SA who having seen Ronaldo playing at firsthand in a friendly a week or two previously and pays £12m, what Sporting wanted, and get's the player. (Obviously we hate the c*nt, I'm sure it would be different if he played for us though and we would have loved the fact he got Rooney sent off)

See the difference? SA and AW have total control over their budgets and their academies, they don't have a Director of Football at their club. Whilst here Rafa has an idiot who thinks he's a DoF as well.

In one.

[IOMRed]

Rafa needs more control.

The main thing irking him is the Academy setup, Piet Hamberg was brought in, but apparently he does not get on well with the other youth coaches. Rafa want's control over the academy so he can decide what youngsters are bought in, as of now he has no say in what youngsters are signed, only a say in whether or not they can be moved into the reserves.

SA and AW have complete control of their transfers. Peter Hill-Wood has mentioned many a time that Arsenal have £30m to spend on whoever Wenger chooses but Arsene chooses not to spend. SA identifies his target - budget allowing and Gill goes off and does whatever possible to get that player.

Rafa on the other hand tells Parry who he wants, for e.g. Dani Alves, we have a budget of £15m. Rafa of course would push to make sure that he could get Alves at whatever cost upto £15m. Parry on the other hand thinks we could save some money here and keep a bit of our budget, we'll only bid £7m. Seville wanted £12m, the most Parry wants to pay is £10m despite the fact we have a budget of £15m and this is the only signing Rafa wants. Another example has to be Cristiano Ronaldo, Liverpool baulked at the £7.5m quoted price after scouting him for months, Gill heads out to Portugal on the instruction of SA who having seen Ronaldo playing at firsthand in a friendly a week or two previously and pays £12m, what Sporting wanted, and get's the player. (Obviously we hate the c*nt, I'm sure it would be different if he played for us though and we would have loved the fact he got Rooney sent off)

See the difference? SA and AW have total control over their budgets and their academies, they don't have a Director of Football at their club. Whilst here Rafa has an idiot who thinks he's a DoF as well.

  - let's not forget Vidic and Simao who could be in our squad now (in fairness Skrtel has turned out to be a top defender as well)

[miss_heather]

I'm fully behind Rafa on this one. He is our manager and he should be able to make all decisions himself.

Hopefully they will offer him what he wants by Monday(derby day) and then the likes of Agger's contract will get sorted

In Rafa We Trust

[fowlerisgod96]

exactly what i said earlier

for 2 weeks in a row now, the attention is on the manager, this is where the team have let him down, they are top of the league, he is pushing media attention onto himself and off them and they still didnt get the 3 points last weekend which hopefully will be different on Monday night.

Going public with a rejected contract offer, if true, isnt good man management, its fucking awful. I understand his frustrations, we all know Parry is a fucking clown. But for this to come out now is scandalous. He didnt need to say a thing. If asked he could have just said that they're still negotiating. If it works and results pick up, then well in. But I cant see how bigger doubts over the managers future are going to be a positive thing for the players, or those wanting new contracts (IE Agger).

[JoeK]

Could you explain to me why/how you think like that because for the life of me i just don't understand,as far as i am comcerned Rafa should be given a budget each season and then work from said budget buying and selling players as & when he sees fit..

Simple really.

[mainstandred]

yeah here u go again pitting rafa against u loyal supporters..
its never rafa vs liverpool fc, u hypocrites

please read the posts he is getting made out to be bigger than the club .

[fowlerisgod96]

Simple really.

Its not that simple though in reality. There's contracts to take into consideration.

The solution is getting a better CEO in and giving Rafa a bit more control of more of the club (youth system etc.)

[rafabenihill]

please read the posts he is getting made out to be bigger than the club .

no mate.. read what u posted..
cheap shots at rafa in the name of loving LFC

[Stussy]

I'm not worried about this in the slightest. Rafa will get what he wants, and he's done enough for us to deserve to be trusted in thsi instance. It's been plain for a long, long time that Rafa feels Parry inhibits his ability to operate in the transfer market as swiftly and efficiently as he wants to, and by implication, he feels that the current situation is a long term impediment to his ability to bring in who we need, and this is therefore handicapping Liverpool FC.

Give him the job definition he wants and then give him five years of Total Rafa Football. Hicks is backing him in public, he has all of the matchgoing Reds on board bar a minority. Time to take the fullest plunge and give Rafa that job definition and trust him to the hilt.

[Gedo]

It's blatantly obvious that this stumbling block in Rafa's contract is Parry related.

Rafa as said it's nothing to do with the Length/Finances of the deal on offer.

The major stumbling which is quite frightening is that Parry thinks he knows a thing or two about the game.
I'm not doubting Parry has forgot more than i know about the Administration side of the game,but this is the tricky part...................he thinks he knows about the playing side as well!!!!!!!!!
Now no one but no one has a big a Ego has Ricky boy.
That's where Rafa's frustration comes in that, Rafa identifies a Potential target with a certain figure in mind,Ricky boy (if he had brains he be dangerous) thinks nah don't fancy him,and put obstacles up as to why we shouldn't sign him (me phones off) and before ye know it someone stepped in and took the player from under are noses!!!
Malouda
Vidic
Garay etc etc etc

[JoeK]

Its not that simple though in reality. There's contracts to take into consideration.

The solution is getting a better CEO in and giving Rafa a bit more control of more of the club (youth system etc.)

It is that simple. He's the manager of Liverpool Football Club - Give him a budget, let him work within it. If he need's more, he asked his superiors, he get's a 'si senor' or a 'fuck off rafa' End of.

Only thing i think he's asking too much for is about the academy.

He's got enough on his plate - as any manager would - managing the first team squad. He, obviously, should have an input into the youths, but not total control.

[Rafas_Barmy_Army]

fully behind Rafa on this, just highlights how much of a c*nt Parry is even more

[JoeK]

It's blatantly obvious that this stumbling block in Rafa's contract is Parry related.

Rafa as said it's nothing to do with the Length/Finances of the deal on offer.

The major stumbling which is quite frightening is that Parry thinks he knows a thing or two about the game.
I'm not doubting Parry has forgot more than i know about the Administration side of the game,but this is the tricky part...................he thinks he knows about the playing side as well!!!!!!!!!
Now no one but no one has a big a Ego has Ricky boy.
That's where Rafa's frustration comes in that, Rafa identifies a Potential target with a certain figure in mind,Ricky boy (if he had brains he be dangerous) thinks nah don't fancy him,and put obstacles up as to why we shouldn't sign him (me phones off) and before ye know it someone stepped in and took the player from under are noses!!!
Malouda
Vidic
Garay etc etc etc

I think i'll thank Rick for that one though.

[Rafa Rafael]

That's where Rafa's frustration comes in that, Rafa identifies a Potential target with a certain figure in mind,Ricky boy (if he had brains he be dangerous) thinks nah don't fancy him,and put obstacles up as to why we shouldn't sign him (me phones off) and before ye know it someone stepped in and took the player from under are noses!!!
Malouda
Vidic
Garay etc etc etc

Dani Alves
Sergio Aguero

[fowlerisgod96]

It is that simple. He's the manager of Liverpool Football Club - Give him a budget, let him work within it. If he need's more, he asked his superiors, he get's a 'si senor' or a 'fuck off rafa' End of.

This isnt Football Manager. You dont just give the manager a budget, because there's much more than how much a player costs to take into account. Who negotiates wage, length of contract, bonuses, release clauses etc. Who negotiates with the club in question in the first place, Rafa himself? All the top managers still answer to someone else, to get the players they want. The problem we have isnt that Rafa isnt 'given a budget', its that the man negotiating is a plank.

[SallyCinnamon]

please read the posts he is getting made out to be bigger than the club .

Only by people with a mindset like yourself,people who get a semi on whenever they have sly digs at Rafa.

[JoeK]

This isnt Football Manager. You dont just give the manager a budget, because there's much more than how much a player costs to take into account. Who negotiates wage, length of contract, bonuses, release clauses etc. Who negotiates with the club in question in the first place, Rafa himself? All the top managers still answer to someone else, to get the players they want. The problem we have isnt that Rafa isnt 'given a budget', its that the man negotiating is a plank.

He is given a budget to buy, or rather bid, on who HE want's, seeing as he is the manager.

He then, once an offer is accepted, passes over the reins to the contrac negotiator - whoever it may be - and they sort out the financial side of it. They don't get involved in the actual picking of the player's, or the price we should pay, which is what Parry think's he can/should do.

It is simple. It's what happens in hundred's of sectors of work. Manager's get given a budget.

[fowlerisgod96]

But what if Parry fucks up the contract? We should just get Samuel L. Jackson in as the negotiator I think.

[JoeK]

But what if Parry fucks up the contract? We should just get Samuel L. Jackson in as the negotiator I think.

Who said Parry would be doing it?

He need's fucking off. and a non-football, financial man brought in to tie up contract's and stuff.

[Djimis Telescopic Leg]

This isnt Football Manager. You dont just give the manager a budget, because there's much more than how much a player costs to take into account. Who negotiates wage, length of contract, bonuses, release clauses etc. Who negotiates with the club in question in the first place, Rafa himself? All the top managers still answer to someone else, to get the players they want. The problem we have isnt that Rafa isnt 'given a budget', its that the man negotiating is a plank.

That's not the issue though, it's that people not versed in football matters feel that they have the right to dictate whether a player Rafa wants is worth the fee Rafa thinks they are. Contracts haven't even come into it - with the likes of Simao, Alves and Barry, players Rafa thought were worth £x million but Parry didn't, Coco/G&H managed to thwart Rafa's efforts to sign them before it had even come down to contracts.

[fowlerisgod96]

So just bring someone in to negotiate contracts? Dyou not think that'd be a bit of a waste of money? What about if someone is on a free transfer, all that matters is the contract so its still taken out of Rafas hand. Contracts are very important these days, more and more players are interested in money over anything else. Surely Rafa should have complete control over that too?

[wigjonnyp]

Rafa needs more control.

The main thing irking him is the Academy setup, Piet Hamberg was brought in, but apparently he does not get on well with the other youth coaches. Rafa want's control over the academy so he can decide what youngsters are bought in, as of now he has no say in what youngsters are signed, only a say in whether or not they can be moved into the reserves.

SA and AW have complete control of their transfers. Peter Hill-Wood has mentioned many a time that Arsenal have £30m to spend on whoever Wenger chooses but Arsene chooses not to spend. SA identifies his target - budget allowing and Gill goes off and does whatever possible to get that player.

Rafa on the other hand tells Parry who he wants, for e.g. Dani Alves, we have a budget of £15m. Rafa of course would push to make sure that he could get Alves at whatever cost upto £15m. Parry on the other hand thinks we could save some money here and keep a bit of our budget, we'll only bid £7m. Seville wanted £12m, the most Parry wants to pay is £10m despite the fact we have a budget of £15m and this is the only signing Rafa wants. Another example has to be Cristiano Ronaldo, Liverpool baulked at the £7.5m quoted price after scouting him for months, Gill heads out to Portugal on the instruction of SA who having seen Ronaldo playing at firsthand in a friendly a week or two previously and pays £12m, what Sporting wanted, and get's the player. (Obviously we hate the c*nt, I'm sure it would be different if he played for us though and we would have loved the fact he got Rooney sent off)

See the difference? SA and AW have total control over their budgets and their academies, they don't have a Director of Football at their club. Whilst here Rafa has an idiot who thinks he's a DoF as well.

AW must be Wenger but I can't get who this SA fella is?

If thought CC was manager of United - c*nt Chops

[SteveZissou]

Okay, we know the drill, the pros and cons... but, how are we actually going to give Rafa what he wants?
Cos it seems Parry has power on the board, and Parry's son is at the academy... so this is obviously a political power struggle... with G historically on Parry's side, I'd like to know how we're going to solve this issue.  Somebody either compromises or somebodies head is going to roll... from all bodies concerned officially Rafa has the least power... his main card is his support from most fans and the richer own Hicks... so, if Rafa is going to be happy the fans reaction is going to be vital to push the others to compromise. When the results are not 100 percent this might be tricky as it was last December and January.  Before the Klinsmann saga we were actually in a good position last season

Any clues hey?

[Cadno]

Who said Parry would be doing it?

He need's fucking off. and a non-football, financial man brought in to tie up contract's and stuff.

This a great point.  I think that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.  In Parry's case he thinks he knows about football, players worth etc.  He like you say should just be a money man and a strong negotiator.

[fowlerisgod96]

That's not the issue though, it's that people not versed in football matters feel that they have the right to dictate whether a player Rafa wants is worth the fee Rafa thinks they are. Contracts haven't even come into it - with the likes of Simao, Alves and Barry, players Rafa thought were worth £x million but Parry didn't, Coco/G&H managed to thwart Rafa's efforts to sign them before it had even come down to contracts.

Its their fucking money. People have this idea that Rafa is always right and everyone else is evil and always wrong and always trying to trip him up, like Dick Dastardly. Maybe we couldnt afford Simao, Alves or Barry? I mean, didnt we spend £20 million on Robbie Keane this summer? If Rafa was so set on getting Barry, why not just offer what Villa wanted straight away? Because then we'd have an average versatility man instead of Xabi Alonso. Damn swines.

[RAFA - 6 - 19]

a finance expert/lawyer who knows everything about contracts clauses and what is being used in the modern football market but has no say whatsoever in whether we should or should not sign a player should be put alongside rafa. Parry can stay somewhere in the background wearing an "i am only here for my vote" t shirt

[west_london_red]

This isnt Football Manager. You dont just give the manager a budget, because there's much more than how much a player costs to take into account. Who negotiates wage, length of contract, bonuses, release clauses etc. Who negotiates with the club in question in the first place, Rafa himself? All the top managers still answer to someone else, to get the players they want. The problem we have isnt that Rafa isnt 'given a budget', its that the man negotiating is a plank.

A very good point, and Rafa probably thinks i can do a better job then the plank. Rafa having total control isnt perfect, but its better then Parry trying to run things.

[Stussy]

Ferguson won the mind games in the contract negotiations.

[JoeK]

So just bring someone in to negotiate contracts? Dyou not think that'd be a bit of a waste of money? What about if someone is on a free transfer, all that matters is the contract so its still taken out of Rafas hand. Contracts are very important these days, more and more players are interested in money over anything else. Surely Rafa should have complete control over that too?

Obviously not just a titled 'contact negotiator' but a financial man.

Only thing Rafa should be invovled in with regard to contract's is the easiest thing on the planet, How long is it?

And no, even if there was just a contractual negotiator, no it wouldn't be a waste of money, rather pay someone 50K a year to tie up contract's of player's who Rafa want's, than play someone to fuck up time, after time, after time. Like Parry.

[RAFA - 6 - 19]

A very good point, and Rafa probably thinks i can do a better job then the plank. Rafa having total control isnt perfect, but its better then Parry trying to run things.

i think thats the crux of it. Rafa would have signed by now if we had a competent chief exec. Rafa doesnt want extra work but if things dont go his way or are not deemed to be done properly he would rather do it himself.

Are things at the reserve and youth level still really disjointed?

[b_joseph]

This a great point.  I think that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.  In Parry's case he thinks he knows about football, players worth etc.  He like you say should just be a money man and a strong negotiator.

But if the Chief Exec knows nothing about the game, you could end up with a situation where he treats the sport as a business and gets rid of Mangers every couple years for not winning.

There has to be a solid man to be connected with the business aspect, while still being respected by Rafa for the football part.
Someone who is liked by Rafa and the Americans.

[Tyler Durden]

Its their fucking money. People have this idea that Rafa is always right and everyone else is evil and always wrong and always trying to trip him up, like Dick Dastardly. Maybe we couldn't afford Simao, Alves or Barry? I mean, didnt we spend £20 million on Robbie Keane this summer? If Rafa was so set on getting Barry, why not just offer what Villa wanted straight away? Because then we'd have an average versatility man instead of Xabi Alonso. Damn swines.

Maybe if we hadn't went in with an offer that obviously insulted Villa in the first place for Barry then there wouldn't have been such a fuss and we could have got him cheaper, Parry did all the negotiating and it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case because he thought he'd get Barry on the cheap being the top Negotiator that he is.

[fowlerisgod96]

Or how about paying just someone a lot of money to be a good CEO? Answer? Rafa, as much as I love the guy, is stubborn. And he thinks he can do everything himself. Parry is a c*nt. I think if we got the best CEO in the world, Rafa would find a problem.

[west_london_red]

i think thats the crux of it. Rafa would have signed by now if we had a competent chief exec. Rafa doesnt want extra work but if things dont go his way or are not deemed to be done properly he would rather do it himself.

Are things at the reserve and youth level still really disjointed?

Gedo is probably the best person to answer this, but how many youngsters have made it into the first team? El Zar seems the closest and hes not exaxtly playing every week. The lack of youth making it into the first team is probably Rafa's biggest weakness as a manager, but not surprising considering hes not in charge of the youth set-up/Academy.