Topic: European Super League

[jillcwhomever]

For me, the only way the ESL works is if the sportswashers are excluded. Let them have the CL and their domestic leagues, where they can be big fish in a shrinking pond, win the league every year, and the whole thing becomes a bore fest. Yeah, they'll still nab the best players on obscene wages, but it will be bland and empty for anyone not a fan of some artificial construct joke of a pretend club.

As an alternative scenario, and I admit I was only half serious when I first thought of it, but I'd love it if the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool, United, etc, petitioned to rejoin the Football League and create a new top tier amalgamation with the Championship. It would be a pain to reorganise the new divisions, but I'm sure it could be done.

Yeah, Championship clubs long for the money promotion to the PL will bring; but right now, they just make up the numbers and are largely just scrapping for survival.  Having some of the traditionally big clubs return to the football league would be a big financial boost to the organisation on its own.  The monster clubs would increasingly hog the money and the best players and pay the wages, so the likes of LFC would probably see contraction in their appeal on the global stage in players we could afford etc. But it would feel a cleaner and more honest game, where we could still enjoy our stature and history.

the league is getting ripped apart because the monster clubs are forging ahead at a rate nobody else can keep up with. We may be looking at a Rugby League/Union type of split in the long run.

I would be more in favour of something like that. The ESL does nothing for me and just stinks of the rich getting richer off the game. Something needs to be done overall anyway to improve the whole football system in this country. So, it has to involve other leagues. Guardiola's latest comments have actually caused real annoyance in clubs up and down the leagues according to one journalist. It would be funny indeed if he ends up being the person that manages to get the leagues altogether and build something better while relegating City further down. I know it's not likely but I can dream.

[PeterTheRed ...]

For me, the only way the ESL works is if the sportswashers are excluded. Let them have the CL and their domestic leagues, where they can be big fish in a shrinking pond, win the league every year, and the whole thing becomes a bore fest. Yeah, they'll still nab the best players on obscene wages, but it will be bland and empty for anyone not a fan of some artificial construct joke of a pretend club.

The ESL makes sense only if the sportswashers are excluded. I have posted this on another thread, but I think it belongs here:

In the end, the European Super League will be established, as it is inevitable. It will be something like this:

- 48 clubs divided in 2 divisions (First and Second)
- No more than 4 clubs from the same country
- No more than 2 clubs from the same city
- A 40,000 seater stadium required for the First division
- A 30,000 seater stadium required for the Second division
- Relegation of the 4 worst placed clubs from the First division to the Second division
- Promotion of the 4 best placed clubs from the Second division to the First division
- A regular season of 46 games, 23 home and 23 away
- A NFL style play-offs of the 16 best placed clubs in the First division, with one-off games at the ground of the better placed club and a Super-Final on a neutral ground (4 play-off games at most)
- TV money distributed evenly to all 48 participants
- Prize money distributed on the basis of the finishing position in the regular season (2/3 for the First division, 1/3 for the Second division)
- Cities with no strong European clubs at the moment, but with big stadiums and strong markets around them also included (Stockholm, Warsaw, Budapest, Bucharest, Vienna and the likes)
- Strict FFP rules with a soft and a hard salary cap, and also a luxury tax for the clubs above the soft salary cap
- Spending on transfers limited as a % of the overall revenues
- Professional refereeing organization with the best referees from around the World

The ESL can only exist and have purpose as the European NFL. Big clubs with big following, carefully picked to cover all the big European markets. The original idea when they invited the 6 English clubs was incredibly stupid. Who the fuck cares about Man City, Chelsea or Tottenham? They are not even the biggest clubs in their own cities/markets. On the other hand, including Celtic would make sense, maybe even Aston Villa.

The core of the ESL will always be clubs from England, Spain, Germany, Italy and France, but Portugal, Holland, Turkey, Belgium, Austria, Greece, Scotland, Switzerland, Croatia, Denmark, Poland, Serbia, Czech Republic, Romania, Sweden, Norway, Israel, Hungary and the likes will also be represented, with Ukraine and Russia also joining once the war is over.

Even though they don't have important European clubs at the moment, cities like Istanbul, Berlin, Bucharest, Vienna, Warsaw, Budapest, Belgrade and the likes won't be ignored, simply due to their big population, and the big stadiums they have.

The ESL is hardly an ideal solution, and had UEFA been successful in dealing with the oil clubs, and in shearing the TV and the sponsorship money better, it would have never been considered a serious option. Now, I am not so sure ...

Of course, it is only my take on the matter, and the ESL could turn out to be something completely different. However, if indeed is established as the European NFL, I wouldn't mind going to Athens, Belgrade or Istanbul to watch LFC in person ...

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

I don't know if it's just me, but i have a feeling the interest for premier league and for club football in general all across Europe is pretty low this season. I don't have the numbers, it's just a feeling and intuition.

[ScouserAtHeart]

I don't know if it's just me, but i have a feeling the interest for premier league and for club football in general all across Europe is pretty low this season. I don't have the numbers, it's just a feeling and intuition.

Probably because we're shit, relatively.

I'm sure Arsenal fans were having fun all season. Man City fans never have fun so they don't count

[Red Beret]

The only fun Abu Dhabi fans have is seeing other fans pissed off. It's impossible for them to enjoy their success in and of itself because they know they cheated. Their pleasure comes from everyone else knowing they cheated and being powerless to stop it.

[In the Name of Klopp]

I see a lot of "they need us more than we need them" from English media. They never learn do they




Let's be honest here, it's the PL destroying football with its wealth and greed. It's the PL allowing oligarchs and murderous regimes into their league (Saudis in NU with UK gov's help).

No, the ESL won't replace domestic leagues.
No, matches won't be played places like Dubai, Riyadh or Pyongyang.

Imo, the PL is only charging City because they feel threatened by ESL. If ESL doesn't become a reality, PL will return to its old self (allow more dubious regimes in). Football to be saved, we need a clear competition to UEFA and PL. We can't keep current status quo and hope everything going to fine because nothing will change.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Probably because we're shit, relatively.

I'm sure Arsenal fans were having fun all season. Man City fans never have fun so they don't count

Maybe you're right. I'd like to see some numbers though.

[Aeon]

One potential positive from a self-regulating European Super League is a re-start and the opportunity to introduce new regulations more strict FFP rules, as well as salary and transfer caps.

Are you not sick of this situation in the Premier League yet? If not then sit watch another Premier League title bought by a mod-low table club breaking every rule possible on the way.

I am not against investment from wealthy owners in clubs like City. They could have spread their investments over the years, build it step by step and start winning fairly.

They outrageously got a free stadium, and broke every rule with the scope to not only win fast, but also eliminate and destroy any domestic competitor. With the exceptions of Klopp's and FSG's Liverpool no one could compete more than a season with them. I consider chelsea a worse shithouse than city.

[In the Name of Klopp]

So clubs can still be state-owned?

Football regulator: UK government confirms new independent body

Blocking clubs from joining a breakaway European Super League will be among the powers held by English football's new independent regulator.


The plan for a regulator, recommended by a fan-led review last year, has been confirmed by the UK government.

Preventing historic clubs going out of business is one of the aims, as well as giving fans greater input and a new owners' and directors' test.

The significant move aims to protect English football's cultural heritage.

The main purposes of the proposed new regulator will be:

• Stopping English clubs from joining closed-shop competitions, which are judged to harm the domestic game

• Preventing a repeat of financial failings seen at numerous clubs, notably the collapses of Bury and Macclesfield

• Introducing a more stringent owners' and directors' test to protect clubs and fans

• Giving fans power to stop owners changing a club's name, badge and traditional kit colours

• Ensuring a fair distribution of money filtered down the English football pyramid from the Premier League

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/64536218

[Vote For Pedro]

So clubs can still be state-owned?

Nothing to spew forth from this rancid Government is going to actually provide fair and proper anything.

[Redbonnie]

Whilst she is a Tory I like Tracy Crouch. She had the integrity to resign over the govt delay to the introduction of stronger gambling controls. Hopefully they do address state funding . My worry is that football can be leveraged beyond sports-washing. We could have a situation were Newcastle (Saudi) and Man U (Qatar) are at war and are playing that out in the FA cup final with the teams as proxy’s. Surely even this rancid government can see why that would be a very very bad idea.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Blocking clubs from joining a breakaway European Super League will be among the powers held by English football's new independent regulator.

So just exactly how are they going to do that?

[Zlen]

How indeed. Super League was never intended to replace the Premier League. It is aiming to replace UEFA Champions League. So why would the new regulator be defending UEFA by blocking English clubs from joining this new competition? UEFA to be perfectly honest, deserves to lose this fight. I was in 'let them burn' state of mind even before the events of Paris unfolded. These days, I would not blink to stop ESL from happening. Not because it's a great concept, but because UEFA can dissolve for all they are worth.

[JRed]

They will block clubs from joining a super league, however, cheating despotic regimes using the league for sportswashing and killing any kind of competition except amongst themselves, will be just fine and dandy.

[Wullie160975]

If they pay the government accordingly, of course.

[Lynx the saucy mynx]

Judgement due September. After the last 24 hours maybe we need to get away. FFP who?

https://twitter.com/jacobsben/status/1686826684077486080?s=46&t=tdytcEN5vgNRmdMHVXclVQ

[Lynx the saucy mynx]

Judgement due September. After the last 24 hours maybe we need to get away. FFP who?

https://twitter.com/jacobsben/status/1686826684077486080?s=46&t=tdytcEN5vgNRmdMHVXclVQ

Edit: now due Friday October 28th.

Will be very interesting to see how it plays out if successful. It’s ironically the day before Real Madrid vs Barcelona.

[Eeyore]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67202993

European Super League: Court's final verdict on breakaway competition due in December

The European Court of Justice will deliver its final verdict on the validity of the European Super League on 21 December.

It had been claimed by the ESL and its backers, A22, that Uefa and Fifa were breaking competition law by threatening to sanction clubs and players who joined the breakaway league.

But in a report released last December the ECJ said the rules of football's European and world governing bodies were "compatible with EU competition law".

A final outcome was expected from the ECJ's 15-strong Grand Chamber in the spring but this did not materialise.

The ruling in December will be a binding interpretation of European Union law, and once handed down, the case will then be referred back to the Madrid commercial court that will apply it to the facts of the Super League case.

Plans for the ESL caused a fallout across the football world when they were announced in April 2021.

The six Premier League sides that signed up to the project - Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and Arsenal - quickly withdrew their support after a backlash from fans, football governing bodies and even government.

However, the plans have not been scrapped completely, with Real Madrid and Barcelona still pursuing the idea.

In July, Juventus, the third member remaining after 12 of the initial 15 clubs backed out within 72 hours of its launch, signalled their intention to quit the project.

After the ESL plans were announced, the Premier League clubs plus Atletico Madrid, Inter Milan and AC Milan were fined by Uefa, but action against Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus was halted during the legal process.

[lionel_messias]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67202993

European Super League: Court's final verdict on breakaway competition due in December

The European Court of Justice will deliver its final verdict on the validity of the European Super League on 21 December.

It had been claimed by the ESL and its backers, A22, that Uefa and Fifa were breaking competition law by threatening to sanction clubs and players who joined the breakaway league.

But in a report released last December the ECJ said the rules of football's European and world governing bodies were "compatible with EU competition law".

A final outcome was expected from the ECJ's 15-strong Grand Chamber in the spring but this did not materialise.

The ruling in December will be a binding interpretation of European Union law, and once handed down, the case will then be referred back to the Madrid commercial court that will apply it to the facts of the Super League case.

Plans for the ESL caused a fallout across the football world when they were announced in April 2021.

The six Premier League sides that signed up to the project - Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and Arsenal - quickly withdrew their support after a backlash from fans, football governing bodies and even government.

However, the plans have not been scrapped completely, with Real Madrid and Barcelona still pursuing the idea.

In July, Juventus, the third member remaining after 12 of the initial 15 clubs backed out within 72 hours of its launch, signalled their intention to quit the project.

After the ESL plans were announced, the Premier League clubs plus Atletico Madrid, Inter Milan and AC Milan were fined by Uefa, but action against Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus was halted during the legal process.

So if the European Court say it is legally valid in December, do the clubs who pulled out suddenly came out and say, "Oh yeah, let's have a go at that then?"

Penny for John Henry's thoughts.

The PL is the biggest cartel in Europe now, with the likes of Newcastle and Spurs having the ability to massively outbid clubs like
AC Milan for top talent. Not to mention what happens long term with City, us and Man United.

ESL is an opportunity for the biggest clubs to maximise TV revenue and not have to bow to Uefa's craven bullshit and rules.

However, there is a whole boatload of uncertainty about making it work, in reality.

[Eeyore]

So if the European Court say it is legally valid in December, do the clubs who pulled out suddenly came out and say, "Oh yeah, let's have a go at that then?"

Penny for John Henry's thoughts.

The PL is the biggest cartel in Europe now, with the likes of Newcastle and Spurs having the ability to massively outbid clubs like
AC Milan for top talent. Not to mention what happens long term with City, us and Man United.

ESL is an opportunity for the biggest clubs to maximise TV revenue and not have to bow to Uefa's craven bullshit and rules.

However, there is a whole boatload of uncertainty about making it work, in reality.

The biggest issue for the club is that if the ESL is deemed to be legally valid then we are left between a rock and a hard place. We will have signed legally binding contracts that we will both join the ESL and that we won't.

Documents leaked by Der Spiegal show that the clubs who pulled out could be forced to pay a €150m 'break-up fee' for their withdrawal. The clubs then signed contracts with onerous penalties payable both to their domestic Leagues and to UEFA if they do form a super League.

[lobsterboy]

Its pointless if ADFC and the Saudis get to sign up.
Even if rules on spending are agreed they will still bribe and cheat their way around it.
They don't consider it corruption, simply business.

[Samie]

Here's the crazy thing we're technically still in the ESL. 

[jillcwhomever]

Here's the crazy thing we're technically still in the ESL. 

It's not happening any time soon...

[lionel_messias]

It's not happening any time soon...

Probably not but there are a lot of American owners right now. ESL was a not so secret dream of John Henry. Glazers would be up for it in a heartbeat and Chelsea would sell their granny to get another £500 million a season to get more crap players in.

[Cafe De Paris]

When old rich white guys dream these things up you know it’s a pile of old shit out to make them more money and not benefitting us fans. Whilst I would be happy to tell uefa to go and do one I don’t trust the alternative.

[Ray K]

European Court of Justice rules that FIFA and UEFA rules on prior approval of super league is contrary to EU law.

Cat, meet pigeons.

@MiguelDelaney
European Court of Justice rules that Uefa/Fifa rules on prohibiting clubs/players from entering other competitions is unlawful - a bigger defeat for Uefa than expected

[The G in Gerrard]

European Court of Justice rules that FIFA and UEFA rules on prior approval of super league is contrary to EU law.

Cat, meet pigeons.

@MiguelDelaney
European Court of Justice rules that Uefa/Fifa rules on prohibiting clubs/players from entering other competitions is unlawful - a bigger defeat for Uefa than expected

Madrid and Barca will be delighted.

[Mark Walters]

European Court of Justice rules that FIFA and UEFA rules on prior approval of super league is contrary to EU law.

Cat, meet pigeons.

@MiguelDelaney
European Court of Justice rules that Uefa/Fifa rules on prohibiting clubs/players from entering other competitions is unlawful - a bigger defeat for Uefa than expected

BOOM! There it is....!

Roll on the Super League.  Roll on clubs in charge of their own broadcast rights. Liverpool European matches without the need to sub BT Sports/TNT. Thank you very much!

[Red Beret]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/dec/21/european-super-league-boost-court-of-justice-ruling-uefa-fifa-eu-law

[thejbs]

One of my mates is a lawyer in the ROI and he called this back at the time.

[jillcwhomever]

I haven't changed my view on this from the first day, no ta.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

When old rich white guys dream these things up you know it’s a pile of old shit out to make them more money and not benefitting us fans. Whilst I would be happy to tell uefa to go and do one I don’t trust the alternative.

This, still.

People thinking the ESL is going to make things better are about as naive as folks who thought Brexit would make things better. The people pulling the strings are still only interested in their own profits, only the names will change. The ESL is not radical change for the better, however "disruptive" it appears.

[Zlen]

Fucking tear down the corrupt house of cards. 
At this point in the rule of Ceferin and Infantino - all I want is for them to suck dick and lose money.
So bring on the Super League because it can't be worse than what we currently have.

[deanloco9]

No one other than Real Madrid or Barcelona still want this. It’s a dead idea.

[Zlen]

No one other than Real Madrid or Barcelona still PUBLICLY want this. It’s a dead idea.

There.
Fixed.

[lionel_messias]

No one other than Real Madrid or Barcelona still want this. It’s a dead idea.

Is it though? I'm not so sure. The likes of Bayern and AC Milan could be key players here:
in the current system they cannot compete with Premier League financial power (not year in, year out) but in
a ESL, they might be able to.

The ESL is about TV media in my view; the biggest clubs want a bigger pie to carve up, world wide and more
say in the governance.

No one should cry for Uefa, with their £10,000 fines for racism.

[CHOPPER]

Bossman

[Zlen]

Can not wait for Ceferin and Infantino to come out aggressively against this.
Fucking assholes.

[JRed]

Must admit, the idea of Ceferin and Infantino being fucked off is a massive plus for the super league.

[Eeyore]

BOOM! There it is....!

Roll on the Super League.  Roll on clubs in charge of their own broadcast rights. Liverpool European matches without the need to sub BT Sports/TNT. Thank you very much!

Roll on being Perez's bitch.