Author Topic: Deloitte Money League  (Read 41662 times)

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #360 on: January 25, 2024, 08:08:34 am »
Real Madrid £723m
Manchester City 718
Paris Saint-Germain 697
Barcelona 696
Manchester Utd 649
Bayern Munich 647
Liverpool 594

We are 5th if you take out the cheats.

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #361 on: January 25, 2024, 08:08:50 am »
The one trophy I’m really not that fussed about. Give me the League Cup over this any day
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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #362 on: January 25, 2024, 08:28:40 am »
Real Madrid £723m
Manchester City 718
Paris Saint-Germain 697
Barcelona 696
Manchester Utd 649
Bayern Munich 647
Liverpool 594
Real Madrid and Barcelona's revenues are inflated by levers which don't really count as they were disregarded by UEFA.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/07/15/barcelona-real-madrid-uefa-future-revenue-stream-ffp/

Man City and PSG? LOL.

However, it shows how poor we were last season.  We missed out on a lot of TV revenue because our season was effectively over very early and we also didn't earn CL bonuses (linked to sponsorship).
« Last Edit: January 25, 2024, 08:32:17 am by MonsLibpool »

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #363 on: January 25, 2024, 08:29:47 am »
But this is for last season so it contains CL revenues. United has been bigger commercially for some time now, bigger stadium despite its condition probably helps as well.

This season we're taking a hit without CL revenues and it will be visible in the same report in one years time.
They went far in their cup competitions which helps with TV revenue. They also earned a bonus for qualifying for the CL.

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #364 on: January 25, 2024, 08:41:58 am »
Real Madrid and Barcelona's revenues are inflated by levers which don't really count as they were disregarded by UEFA.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/07/15/barcelona-real-madrid-uefa-future-revenue-stream-ffp/

Man City and PSG? LOL.

However, it shows how poor we were last season.  We missed out on a lot of TV revenue because our season was effectively over very early and we also didn't earn CL bonuses (linked to sponsorship).

I am not sure Deloitte's report contains levers as these aren't connected to 3 revenue categories analysed. It's based on purely operational activity.


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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #365 on: January 25, 2024, 08:44:41 am »
I am not sure Deloitte's report contains levers as these aren't connected to 3 revenue categories analysed. It's based on purely operational activity.
It does. No way Barcelona's revenue grew by £150-odd million in the space of a year. Not in a season where they were knocked out in the CL group stage.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2024, 08:47:01 am by MonsLibpool »

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #366 on: January 25, 2024, 09:19:45 am »
Had a second thought for a moment, but I really don't think it contains levers.

Firstly, their levers included selling assets and future revenues. It doesn't have anything in common with commercial, broadcasting or matchday activity.

Additionally, Barcelona in their summary of 22/23 season boasted of e.g. record commercial revenues that included 20 new sponsorships worth approximately 98 mEUR. Commercial revenue grew by 128 mEUR total, from 284 to 412, so it's entirely possible that it grew organically (adding other streams that are less significant than sponsorships).

Same with matchday segment, as their had more revenue than in last full season pre-Covid. They also had much success with something they call Licensing & Merchandising segment.

There are no financial statements for 22/23 available yet, but based on their summary I think it is entirely possible they grew that much. It was something of a record season and probably won't happen again soon.

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #367 on: January 25, 2024, 09:25:44 am »
Had a second thought for a moment, but I really don't think it contains levers.

Firstly, their levers included selling assets and future revenues. It doesn't have anything in common with commercial, broadcasting or matchday activity.

Additionally, Barcelona in their summary of 22/23 season boasted of e.g. record commercial revenues that included 20 new sponsorships worth approximately 98 mEUR. Commercial revenue grew by 128 mEUR total, from 284 to 412, so it's entirely possible that it grew organically (adding other streams that are less significant than sponsorships).

Same with matchday segment, as their had more revenue than in last full season pre-Covid. They also had much success with something they call Licensing & Merchandising segment.

There are no financial statements for 22/23 available yet, but based on their summary I think it is entirely possible they grew that much. It was something of a record season and probably won't happen again soon.
Part of the levers involved selling their future TV revenue mate which falls under broadcasting. It's not logical for their revenue to increase by circa £150m in a year where they got as far as the Europa League playoff.

That's why they are in FFP trouble despite their "high" revenue.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2024, 09:29:06 am by MonsLibpool »

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #368 on: January 25, 2024, 09:28:46 am »
Even if we assume that selling future TV revenue falls under Broadcasting category, it still doesn't explain increase in revenue. Broadcasting revenue fell in 2023 compared to 2022 by 29 mEUR.

The increase in revenue is mostly connected to new sponsorships and it doesn't have anything in common with sporting performance.

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #369 on: January 25, 2024, 09:29:27 am »
Even if we assume that selling future TV revenue falls under Broadcasting category, it still doesn't explain increase in revenue. Broadcasting revenue fell in 2023 compared to 2022 by 29 mEUR.

The increase in revenue is mostly connected to new sponsorships and it doesn't have anything in common with sporting performance.
So why do they have FFP issues then? And why are they desperate for the Super League to take off?:D

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/12/24/barcelona-on-brink-failing-ffp-european-super-league/
https://x.com/Tim_Roehn/status/1738142678720581778?s=20

The beauty of this forum is that we have people that are experienced in a wide range of things. You don't have to take the report at face value.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2024, 09:35:05 am by MonsLibpool »

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #370 on: January 25, 2024, 09:39:14 am »
Deloitte's report focuses on 3 main operational segments of revenue. FFP goes way further and has significantly wider scope. Therefore they can increase their topline but still don't comply with FFP rules. I wouldn't connect those 2 things.

On the other hand, I remember (not looking at FFP or Deloitte's report) that Barcelona have always been an outlier. They boasted of record revenue few years ago, but it happened only because they added money from players' sale. Almost no other club does it.

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #371 on: January 25, 2024, 09:42:26 am »
Deloitte's report focuses on 3 main operational segments of revenue. FFP goes way further and has significantly wider scope. Therefore they can increase their topline but still don't comply with FFP rules. I wouldn't connect those 2 things.

On the other hand, I remember (not looking at FFP or Deloitte's report) that Barcelona have always been an outlier. They boasted of record revenue few years ago, but it happened only because they added money from players' sale. Almost no other club does it.
There’s no need to go round in circles about this. Their revenue is inflated because they sold their future Broadcasting revenue (part of operating income) for cash now which is unsustainable and desperate. 

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #372 on: January 25, 2024, 10:43:30 am »
However, it shows how poor we were last season.  We missed out on a lot of TV revenue because our season was effectively over very early and we also didn't earn CL bonuses (linked to sponsorship).
Perfect illustration why you improve the squad from a position of strength. It's penny wise, pound foolish otherwise.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #373 on: January 25, 2024, 10:58:12 am »
Perfect illustration why you improve the squad from a position of strength. It's penny wise, pound foolish otherwise.

I think last season needs to be put into isolation as a particularly bad year for recruitment and manager decisions though. People use the summer of 2019 as a problem but we had lots of players in their peak for that so you can carry one summer where you dont do as much.

The summer of 2022 was just silly however. A long hard season (longer and harder than 2018/19) with a lot more players close to, at or above 30. We just collectively lost the plot that summer.

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #374 on: January 25, 2024, 12:04:54 pm »
Spurs revenue is impressive. I know it's high due to debt of the stadium. But looks like a good investment for them.
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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #375 on: January 25, 2024, 12:22:45 pm »
I always felt a club of our stature deserves a bigger stadium. You look at Bilbao and they have a better stadium than us despite not being in the big boys league.

We have 15,000 less capacity than Old Trafford. Tickets, food and drinks, hospitality, merchandise. They all adds up.

Couldn't we expand Anfield any further? Is there some sort of restriction or what?

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #376 on: January 25, 2024, 12:35:58 pm »
I always felt a club of our stature deserves a bigger stadium. You look at Bilbao and they have a better stadium than us despite not being in the big boys league.

We have 15,000 less capacity than Old Trafford. Tickets, food and drinks, hospitality, merchandise. They all adds up.

Couldn't we expand Anfield any further? Is there some sort of restriction or what?
Our hospitality (their food quality is low) is better and we have more space which drives more sales. Old Trafford is big but it's getting outdated.

In terms of merchandise/shirt sales- https://x.com/Lu_Class_/status/1728035277187305983?s=20
« Last Edit: January 25, 2024, 12:38:14 pm by MonsLibpool »

Offline TAA66

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #377 on: January 25, 2024, 12:49:15 pm »
I always felt a club of our stature deserves a bigger stadium. You look at Bilbao and they have a better stadium than us despite not being in the big boys league.

We have 15,000 less capacity than Old Trafford. Tickets, food and drinks, hospitality, merchandise. They all adds up.

Couldn't we expand Anfield any further? Is there some sort of restriction or what?

We’ll i guess we could fill the corners in

Offline classycarra

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #378 on: January 25, 2024, 02:51:14 pm »
I always felt a club of our stature deserves a bigger stadium. You look at Bilbao and they have a better stadium than us despite not being in the big boys league.

We have 15,000 less capacity than Old Trafford. Tickets, food and drinks, hospitality, merchandise. They all adds up.

Couldn't we expand Anfield any further? Is there some sort of restriction or what?
One of the reason's ours is a club of our stature is because we don't look over our shoulder with an inferiority complex, trying desperate to keep up with the Joneses - nor longing for what others have, in terms of the grass being greener.

Give me a stadium of character history emotion and intensity over any modern designs or any desperation to stuff more seats in and trying to rinse more tickets out of fans.

Offline Keith Lard

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #379 on: January 25, 2024, 04:15:59 pm »
One of the reason's ours is a club of our stature is because we don't look over our shoulder with an inferiority complex, trying desperate to keep up with the Joneses - nor longing for what others have, in terms of the grass being greener.

Give me a stadium of character history emotion and intensity over any modern designs or any desperation to stuff more seats in and trying to rinse more tickets out of fans.

Hit the nail on the head
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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #380 on: January 25, 2024, 05:42:34 pm »
I always felt a club of our stature deserves a bigger stadium. You look at Bilbao and they have a better stadium than us despite not being in the big boys league.

We have 15,000 less capacity than Old Trafford. Tickets, food and drinks, hospitality, merchandise. They all adds up.

Couldn't we expand Anfield any further? Is there some sort of restriction or what?

Hospitality at Old Trafford:

Manchester United Under Investigation for Serving Raw Chicken to Guests:

https://metro.co.uk/2023/12/01/man-utd-investigation-serving-raw-chicken-guests-19914971/

Manchester United Fans Soaked at Old Trafford from Leaking Roof:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/man-utd-old-trafford-glazers-31079080

Manchester United Criticized by Council for Failing to Deal with Mice Infestation:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/sep/01/manchester-united-mice-infestation-criticised-council

Manchester United Fan Footage of Old Trafford Toilet Flooded with Urine Goes Viral:

https://onefootball.com/en/news/man-united-fan-footage-of-old-trafford-toilet-flooded-with-urine-goes-viral-36967378

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #381 on: January 25, 2024, 05:50:38 pm »
I always felt a club of our stature deserves a bigger stadium. You look at Bilbao and they have a better stadium than us despite not being in the big boys league.

We have 15,000 less capacity than Old Trafford. Tickets, food and drinks, hospitality, merchandise. They all adds up.

Couldn't we expand Anfield any further? Is there some sort of restriction or what?

Anfield is now the 8th largest stadium in the country. Only Man Utd, Spurs and West Ham have larger stadiums at club level football - the rest are national stadiums. West Ham were gifted theirs; Spurs' cost a billion quid. Anfield is bigger than the Emirates, for a fraction of the cost and it didn't hamper our ability to compete on the field.

I wouldn't swap Anfield for anything.
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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #382 on: January 25, 2024, 07:04:11 pm »
I always felt a club of our stature deserves a bigger stadium. You look at Bilbao and they have a better stadium than us despite not being in the big boys league.

We have 15,000 less capacity than Old Trafford. Tickets, food and drinks, hospitality, merchandise. They all adds up.

Couldn't we expand Anfield any further? Is there some sort of restriction or what?

No they don't?  Bilbao's stadium, San Mames, might be more modern (being built in 2014) but it is significantly smaller (less than 54k) - the only Spanish stadiums bigger are the ginormous Camp Nou and Bernabeu, and the new Wanda Metropolitano. 

Also, OT is about 13k more seats - and in terms of revenue - 13k isn't "that" much - if we look at the the 2021/22 accounts - we made £86m from match day revenue.  In that season we averaged in the PL 53k in our 19 home games, had 3 home FA Cup matches (out of the 4 max given both Semis and Final now is played at Wembley), had 3 (out of a maximum of 4) League Cup matches, and made the final in the CL (so had the maximum 6 possible home matches).  So best case scenario is if we adjust the matchday revenue up by the 13k "less capacity" you are saying we have to work out how much extra we might get - so thats £86m * 13/53 = £20.7m - or about 3.5% of our total revenue that year.  the c.7k a year from the new stadium improvements will subsequently get us about £10m as well likely.

This also tallies with what United made - they made 110.5m in the same year's accounts from matchday revenue, so about 28% more than us (from a c. 37% larger stadium, but 5 fewer games).  Last season they went from £110.5m from 26 games (19 PL, 1 League cup, 2 FA Cups, and 4 CLs) to making £130.5m from 33 (19 PL, 4 LC, 4 FA Cup, 6 ELs) - which is 24% more income from 27% more games - so the logic fully holds up.

Assuming that to make this bigger stadium, we'd need a brand new stadium, then unless we were to increase ticket prices (unlikely to be popular), then we would only be earning £20-25m a year more based on this - so could take 30-40 years to pay off the cost of the stadium - obviously, we'd make money for selling Anfield and the surrounding area, plus naming rights to the stadium - or we'd be screwed.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2024, 07:07:32 pm by Scottymuser »

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #383 on: January 25, 2024, 07:11:19 pm »
Anfield is now the 8th largest stadium in the country. Only Man Utd, Spurs and West Ham have larger stadiums at club level football - the rest are national stadiums. West Ham were gifted theirs; Spurs' cost a billion quid. Anfield is bigger than the Emirates, for a fraction of the cost and it didn't hamper our ability to compete on the field.

I wouldn't swap Anfield for anything.
We can never move from Anfield. Just wouldn’t be the same club. Far too much history there to even contemplate moving.

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #384 on: January 25, 2024, 07:13:53 pm »
It will change next year, so much ado about little.

We all know Man City's global fan base is far greater than ours or the red Mancs.
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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #385 on: January 25, 2024, 07:36:33 pm »
We can never move from Anfield. Just wouldn’t be the same club. Far too much history there to even contemplate moving.

Come off it. Every bitter knows we would swap Anfield for the shitdome in BOOOtle in a heartbeat
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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #386 on: January 25, 2024, 09:09:37 pm »
Come off it. Every bitter knows we would swap Anfield for the shitdome in BOOOtle in a heartbeat
10,000 fewer seats, the smell of shite, and the wind off the North Sea.


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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #387 on: January 25, 2024, 09:16:46 pm »
10,000 fewer seats, the smell of shite, and the wind off the North Sea.


What’s not to like?

Only Everton could manage to accidentally build a stadium on the wrong coast.

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #388 on: January 25, 2024, 09:21:52 pm »
Only Everton could manage to accidentally build a stadium on the wrong coast.

;D
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #389 on: January 25, 2024, 09:22:06 pm »
Only Everton could manage to accidentally build a stadium on the wrong coast.
Oh it’s all the North Sea to me ;D


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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #390 on: January 25, 2024, 09:56:06 pm »
10,000 fewer seats, the smell of shite, and the wind off the North Sea.


What’s not to like?

Everton's football?
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

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Re: Deloitte Money League
« Reply #391 on: January 25, 2024, 10:17:38 pm »
Come off it. Every bitter knows we would swap Anfield for the shitdome in BOOOtle in a heartbeat
This is true, however they also all know that their points deduction(s) are grossly unfair, the PL is trying to stop them challenging the big clubs, they have more fans from the city than Liverpool, Beto is better than Nunez , lord lucan is alive and well riding Shergar around Stanley park of a Sunday afternoon and the earth is flat.