Author Topic: FFP rules  (Read 33815 times)

Offline karl740

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FFP rules
« on: February 2, 2014, 10:14:54 am »
Sorry in advance if there is a topic already for this but I couldn't find one.

There are a few things I would like clearing up on this. There is an article claiming that ourselves, Chelsea and Arsenal are considering reporting City regarding FFP.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2550222/Rivals-ganging-ban-City-Liverpool-Chelsea-Arsenal-test-Champions-League-ruling-Financial-Fair-Play.html

What I don't understand is that the rules state you cannot post losses of more than x amount over two years and they have clearly exceeded that amount how can there be an argument? It also states that they can exempt up to 110 million I think, i would like to know why that is.

Anyone with any in depth knowledge on this would be appreciated. I would also like people's opinions on whether a club such as City would actually be kicked out if found guilty of manipulating the rules.
« Last Edit: February 2, 2014, 10:45:28 am by karl740 »

Offline Danny_

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #1 on: February 2, 2014, 10:22:11 am »
Chelsea reporting them is an absolute joke - talk about hypocrisy.  I wouldn't be surprised by anything from Mourinho at this point though.

Offline tommy LFC

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #2 on: February 2, 2014, 10:24:49 am »
Wouldn't feel right. But if it benefits us then it should be done.
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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #3 on: February 2, 2014, 10:26:25 am »

I would also like people's opinions on whether a club such as City would actually be kicked out if found guilty of manipulating the rules.

Of course not, all City have to do is give Platini a suitably packed brown envelope and it'll be ignored.

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Offline karl740

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #4 on: February 2, 2014, 10:31:11 am »
Of course not, all City have to do is give Platini a suitably packed brown envelope and it'll be ignored.


Surely they will look a bunch of idiots if they don't enforce their own rules. Psg, City and maybe even Chelsea without looking at their books you would be confident that they are over the limits.

Offline Red Razor

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #5 on: February 2, 2014, 10:38:26 am »
While they are at it - how about a squad salary cap and let a players decision to join a club be about something other than cash.

The game is slowly rotting from inside out with sky, city, chelsea and oil rich clubs stealing its soul

Getting back to the top will be so much better knowing we have done it in relatively modest fashion
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Offline G1 Jockey 4(betfair)

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #6 on: February 2, 2014, 10:39:13 am »
daily mail :)

what the fuck do they know?

id say the exemption is one that is scaled down year by year.....basically giving clubs a little leaway timewise to get themselves in order.

if they dont uefa have to act beccause otherwise i think teams like mallorca malaga and a few others will be straght to the courts claiming compensation for loss of revenue.
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Offline GBF

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #7 on: February 2, 2014, 10:43:38 am »
:lmao chelsea moaning :lmao

city isn't only putting their zillions in the team but also rebuilding the area around them, whereas chelsea...
01111001 01101111 01110101 00100111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101110 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110111 01100001 01101100 01101011 00100000 01100001 01101100 01101111 01101110 01100101

Offline RooiBefok

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #8 on: February 2, 2014, 10:50:03 am »
An extract from an article by ‘The Swiss Ramble’ which I find, best explains the fundamentals of how FFP is to function.

How will FFP work in practice?

‘The first point to note is that clubs do not actually have to break-even in the early years of FFP to meet the target, thanks to the concept of “acceptable deviations”, which is one way UEFA has attempted to facilitate the move towards a sustainable model.

The first season that UEFA will start monitoring clubs is 2013/14, but this will take into account losses made in the two preceding years, namely 2011/12 and 2012/13. Wealthy owners will be allowed to absorb aggregate losses of €45 million (Ł36 million), initially over those two years and then over a three-year monitoring period, as long as they are willing to cover the deficit by making equity contributions. The maximum permitted loss then falls to €30 million (Ł24 million) from 2015/16 and will be further reduced from 2018/19 (to an unspecified amount).

This approach was explained by Infantino, “You can have losses for one year, because perhaps you had one bad season and you did not qualify (for Europe). So we are looking at losses over a multi-year basis. So one year you can make a loss, but not over three years.” This makes sense, though some clubs might simply make operating losses every year and get within the break-even target by hefty player sales in one year.

UEFA’s willingness to give the clubs every chance to meet FFP is also seen by the decision to have only two years in the first monitoring period, as this means that the annual average loss can be higher than future monitoring periods.

It is important to note that these are the acceptable deviations only if the owner is willing and able to put money in. If not (as is the case for many clubs), then they are significantly lower at just €5 million (Ł4 million).  For the likes of Abramovich and Mansour, this will obviously not be an issue, but their ability to cover large deficits will be much reduced, as noted by Infantino, “I wouldn’t say the era is dead, but I would say what is over is the sugar daddy who can put hundreds of millions into the clubs. This will no longer be possible.”

Note that the rules do not actually force a club to become profitable. All that UEFA are saying is that clubs will not be allowed to compete in their competitions (Champions League and Europa League) if they do not breakeven, but clubs making losses could continue to compete in their domestic league. The first sanctions for clubs not fulfilling the break-even requirement can be taken during the 2013/14 season and the first possible exclusions relating to break-even breaches would be for 2014/15 season.’
« Last Edit: February 2, 2014, 10:52:48 am by RooiBefok »
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Offline deano2727

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #9 on: February 2, 2014, 10:59:13 am »
Would possibly benefit us if City got ruled out of the CL, if the team finished 5th got their spot, though it could also benefit Spurs, United and Everton.

In saying that though, I would far rather it happen to Chelsea and Mourinho. The horrible cretins.  The absolute audacity of mourinho to complain about city.  :no

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #10 on: February 2, 2014, 11:01:56 am »
I can't see any footballing authority banning a club from European competition because it doesn't meet these FFP rules

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #11 on: February 2, 2014, 11:10:28 am »
No snitchin'
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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #12 on: February 2, 2014, 11:13:56 am »
FFP is a step in the right direction because money in football is just going stupid and despite TV deals going higher and higher, ticket prices are not going down and clubs are still under massive financial pressure.

However, the rich owners will still be doctoring the system even when it is in place. City have a massive sponsor ship deal through their owners, they have sold image rights to a company to raise money etc etc, Monaco have done a similar sponsorship deal through their owners and no doubt Gazprom will offer Chelsea a fair sponsorship deal of 100m a year and so on.

UEFA won't have the balls to stop a big club.

Offline Butcher Knife Roberto

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #13 on: February 2, 2014, 11:14:03 am »
I can't see any footballing authority banning a club from European competition because it doesn't meet these FFP rules

Could you imagine what the TV companies and sponsors would say, especially companies like Gazprom? They might as well have written the rules on the back of a napkin, because they'll be discarded just as quickly once the money men start banging on doors in Sion.

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #14 on: February 2, 2014, 11:15:35 am »
I can't see any footballing authority banning a club from European competition because it doesn't meet these FFP rules

Were Malaga not banned?

Just checked and there have been a handful already. Beşiktaş, Bursaspor, Malaga and Rapid Bucharesti.

One of the bigger problems with Manchester City is their sponsorship isn´t it? They have some of the largest numbers in Europe coming in from what look like front companies just to feed them money. Can't remember where I read that now either, will keep digging for my source.
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Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #15 on: February 2, 2014, 11:29:47 am »
Were Malaga not banned?

Just checked and there have been a handful already. Beşiktaş, Bursaspor, Malaga and Rapid Bucharesti.

One of the bigger problems with Manchester City is their sponsorship isn´t it? They have some of the largest numbers in Europe coming in from what look like front companies just to feed them money. Can't remember where I read that now either, will keep digging for my source.

Man City are a whole different ball game. They would ban the *possible* Premier League champions from Europe? They need clubs like Man City as much as Man City needs the Champions League.

Won't happen.

That's not including the whole sponsorship of these competitions and how they'd be affected and these clubs can always threaten to breakaway and form another competition.

Besides clubs can always alter their figures to comply if they wish to.

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #16 on: February 2, 2014, 11:29:58 am »
Were Malaga not banned?

Just checked and there have been a handful already. Beşiktaş, Bursaspor, Malaga and Rapid Bucharesti.

One of the bigger problems with Manchester City is their sponsorship isn´t it? They have some of the largest numbers in Europe coming in from what look like front companies just to feed them money. Can't remember where I read that now either, will keep digging for my source.

Would I be right in thinking all of those clubs had financial trouble? I can only see FFP being used against clubs that are in some kind of trouble, whereas clubs like City will be ignored because no amount of losses will put them in significant debt.

Chelsea are an odd one but you'd imagine their sales of Mata and De Bruyne might have put them in an okay position.

Offline Dave D

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #17 on: February 2, 2014, 11:37:32 am »
Testing the waters. If nothing happens to man city, then it's back to a free-for-all with the spending, fuck the FFP rules.
It's a bit like speeding on a motorway, man city are the idiots going 200 in the outside lane.

That fat French fuck has gone very quiet about it since PSG and Monaco ramped up their spending.

Offline ManchesterBlue

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #18 on: February 2, 2014, 01:27:09 pm »
There's a thread in the General Football sub-forum and RooiBefok has done a good summary. You would be in danger of failing with losses similar to last year's but there's a significant get-out. I think most people know you can add back expenditure on Youth Development, Community activities and infrastructure spending & normally that wouldt be something like Ł10-15m a year for a club like Liverpool. I think you wrote off a large amount for work on the new stadium so from your point of view you may be able to ignore the amount you've written off for FFP (which increased your losses).

But there is a transitional arrangement whereby you can add back wages paid in 2011/12 under contracts signed prior to June 1 2010 if you meet certain criteria. These are that you can only add these back to 2011/12 losses if they mean that, without this amount, you would have met FFP. The other condition is that the trend of any losses must be improving (i.e. you must be moving to break-even). If you meet all these, then UEFA have said that there will be no sanction. City's figure is Ł80m under that, which is why they are unlikely to face any sanction, plus we're spending a huge amount on infrastructure at the moment and will be for the next few years.

As 2011/12 will be used in the first two years' assessments then this is effective for this year and next.
« Last Edit: February 2, 2014, 01:32:39 pm by ManchesterBlue »

Offline .adam

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2015, 03:18:42 pm »
Didn't know where else to put this so excuse the bump.


Offline CraigDS

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2015, 03:19:53 pm »
As expected to be honest.

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2015, 03:41:11 pm »
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Offline cornelius

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2015, 03:47:43 pm »
Didn't know where else to put this so excuse the bump.


Great news! Now let's crack open the war chest for Reus/Pogba/Snoogy Doogy etc etc

Offline The Mule

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2015, 04:00:37 pm »
I wonder if the Assaidi and Ince money tipped us back under the acceptable threshold?
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Offline .adam

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2015, 04:20:31 pm »
I wonder if the Assaidi and Ince money tipped us back under the acceptable threshold?

No, as the calculations are based on previous sets of accounts.

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2015, 05:20:16 pm »
Exactly as expected then.
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2015, 05:30:59 pm »
As expected, although Hull's abbreviated European endeavour against Lokeren has set them back €200,000

Offline HarryLabrador

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2015, 04:17:05 pm »
Just been confirmed on sky, no sanctions.
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Offline plura

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2015, 04:19:21 pm »
Reg Hull being fined 100,000-200,000 Euro, how is this all calculated?

Offline ashleyrose-66

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2015, 04:21:54 pm »
http://www.uefa.org/mediaservices/mediareleases/newsid=2216273.html

The Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) Investigatory Chamber has announced that four clubs – Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC (ISR), Hull City AFC (ENG), Panathinaikos FC (GRE) and Ruch Chorzów (POL) – have individually agreed to settlement agreements following non-compliance with Financial Fair Play (FFP) break-even regulations.

These agreements are aimed at ensuring each club achieves break-even compliance with minimal delay, and are defined by Articles 14 (1) (b) and 15 of the Procedural Rules governing the CFCB.

Each of the settlement agreements includes break-even targets, whereby each club will need to prove by no later than 31 December 2015 to have reached full compliance with the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations, and financial contributions, whereby each of the clubs agrees to pay an unconditional amount of €200,000. The individual summary settlements (in English only) are available on UEFA.org. Each club will be subject to ongoing monitoring, and any case of non-compliance with the terms of their agreement will be automatically referred to the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber as per Article 15 (4) of the Procedural Rules governing the CFCB. Agreements may be reviewed by the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber upon the request of the Chairman of the CFCB and/or upon the request of a directly affected party within ten days.

The CFCB Investigatory Chamber also announced that AC Sparta Praha (CZE) and Liverpool FC (ENG) have been found (following the submission of additional financial information) to have satisfied the break-even requirement and are no longer under investigation. The CFCB is continuing its monitoring of those clubs who had had disclosed a break-even deficit on the basis of their financial reporting periods ending in 2012 and 2013 and the clubs who had been previously requested to provide additional monitoring information (as reported in media release number 56 on 11 December 2014).

Furthermore, the CFCB Investigatory Chamber also provided updates on two clubs whose settlement agreements terms recently ended: PFC Levski Sofia (BUL) and Trabzonspor AŞ (TUR) were found to have fully complied with the terms of their agreement. As a consequence they have exited the settlement regime.

Finally, the CFCB Investigatory Chamber also announced that it has decided to open investigations into FC Dinamo Moskva (RUS) and FC Lokomotiv Moskva (RUS) after disclosing break-even deficit on the basis of their financial reporting periods ending in 2012, 2013 and 2014.

The next step in this season’s Financial Fair play timetable will see the final submission of break-even information in mid-March. Monitoring work is ongoing, including requests for additional information and audits, on all other previously opened investigations and settlement agreements which are still ongoing.

The CFCB investigatory chamber is set to reach its decisions in late May; any cases referred to the adjudicatory chamber will have their final decisions in June; and decisions by the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) on any appeal cases are expected between the end of July and mid-August.

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2015, 04:24:44 pm »
Reg Hull being fined 100,000-200,000 Euro, how is this all calculated?

I'm guessing that they spent a bit the season before trying get promoted and that has hurt them as they then got into Europe against expectations which meant they got assessed by FFP.

Glad we're ok, it would've been a kick in the teeth to get a fine after all the years of doping by City & Chelsea.
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Offline LondonRapLondon

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2015, 05:21:16 pm »
Didn't know where else to put this so excuse the bump.



Ace

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2015, 05:22:35 pm »
http://www.uefa.org/mediaservices/mediareleases/newsid=2216273.html

The Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) Investigatory Chamber has announced that four clubs – Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC (ISR), Hull City AFC (ENG), Panathinaikos FC (GRE) and Ruch Chorzów (POL) – have individually agreed to settlement agreements following non-compliance with Financial Fair Play (FFP) break-even regulations.

These agreements are aimed at ensuring each club achieves break-even compliance with minimal delay, and are defined by Articles 14 (1) (b) and 15 of the Procedural Rules governing the CFCB.

Each of the settlement agreements includes break-even targets, whereby each club will need to prove by no later than 31 December 2015 to have reached full compliance with the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations, and financial contributions, whereby each of the clubs agrees to pay an unconditional amount of €200,000. The individual summary settlements (in English only) are available on UEFA.org. Each club will be subject to ongoing monitoring, and any case of non-compliance with the terms of their agreement will be automatically referred to the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber as per Article 15 (4) of the Procedural Rules governing the CFCB. Agreements may be reviewed by the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber upon the request of the Chairman of the CFCB and/or upon the request of a directly affected party within ten days.

The CFCB Investigatory Chamber also announced that AC Sparta Praha (CZE) and Liverpool FC (ENG) have been found (following the submission of additional financial information) to have satisfied the break-even requirement and are no longer under investigation. The CFCB is continuing its monitoring of those clubs who had had disclosed a break-even deficit on the basis of their financial reporting periods ending in 2012 and 2013 and the clubs who had been previously requested to provide additional monitoring information (as reported in media release number 56 on 11 December 2014).

Furthermore, the CFCB Investigatory Chamber also provided updates on two clubs whose settlement agreements terms recently ended: PFC Levski Sofia (BUL) and Trabzonspor AŞ (TUR) were found to have fully complied with the terms of their agreement. As a consequence they have exited the settlement regime.

Finally, the CFCB Investigatory Chamber also announced that it has decided to open investigations into FC Dinamo Moskva (RUS) and FC Lokomotiv Moskva (RUS) after disclosing break-even deficit on the basis of their financial reporting periods ending in 2012, 2013 and 2014.

The next step in this season’s Financial Fair play timetable will see the final submission of break-even information in mid-March. Monitoring work is ongoing, including requests for additional information and audits, on all other previously opened investigations and settlement agreements which are still ongoing.

The CFCB investigatory chamber is set to reach its decisions in late May; any cases referred to the adjudicatory chamber will have their final decisions in June; and decisions by the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) on any appeal cases are expected between the end of July and mid-August.

Result

Offline plura

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2015, 05:26:33 pm »
I'm guessing that they spent a bit the season before trying get promoted and that has hurt them as they then got into Europe against expectations which meant they got assessed by FFP.

Glad we're ok, it would've been a kick in the teeth to get a fine after all the years of doping by City & Chelsea.

Meant more how it is exactly calculated, i.e. spendings vs fine. Ł1,000,000 over the 'limit' = 100,000, etc or similar.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2015, 06:11:29 pm »
We are due to announce our first profit in seven years on Monday it seems....

Would be positive
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2015, 06:12:51 pm »
We are due to announce our first profit in seven years on Monday it seems....

Would be positive

Where is that coming from?

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2015, 06:14:36 pm »
Where is that coming from?
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Offline Smudgester

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2015, 06:29:16 pm »
Result
Was never in any doubt that we would pass.

Offline DJBrenton

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2015, 08:15:00 pm »
The headline I just saw was 'Liverpool to escape FFP punishment' So we 'escaped' it did we?
I have no children on RAWK. Anyone claiming to be my daughter is a blagger trying to bask in reflected glory.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: FFP rules
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2015, 08:15:32 pm »
Yes
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W