Author Topic: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?  (Read 240084 times)

Offline Tom_B

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #960 on: August 31, 2012, 11:35:24 pm »
I think we will be okay if i'm being honest, Aresnal haven't strengthened at all and Spurs have replaced Modric and VDV with Dembele and Dempsey the latter were better for them.

Spurs have done great business this window. Improved their keeper, and arguably in midfield too with Sigurdsson, Dempsey and Dembele replacing Modric and VdV (Who was pretty woeful last season). They also signed a top centre half who can actually stay fit for a whole season.
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Offline Circa1892

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #961 on: August 31, 2012, 11:35:25 pm »
You could argue that Kenny Dalglish and Damien Comolli did as much damage to Liverpool as Gillett and Hicks.

Absolutely fucking shocking.

How fucking dare you. You should get fucking banned for that.

Do you even have a fucking clue what Kenny did for this club, for this city?!

Maybe he fucked up in the transfer market, but that statement is a fucking disgrace.

Offline benn25

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #962 on: August 31, 2012, 11:35:30 pm »
so when does the loan window shut?
We just leave them be for a while, take a breather, let them settle, then bang!  All over them like a tramp on chips.

Offline Twelfth Man

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #963 on: August 31, 2012, 11:35:32 pm »
The reaction of Brendan Rodgers will be very interesting, and will tell us a lot about him. I hope he doesn't just turn out to be a yes man. He's talked a good game so far, but if he is happy to allow transfer dealings like that then I will be worried.
He has already openly stated, before Carroll left, that the squad was small. Since that time three more players have gone and a youth player has come in. Doesn't strike me as a yes man. But I also think he loves the club, so will not want to rock the boat too much this early in his career. I expect veiled comments about the situation.
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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #964 on: August 31, 2012, 11:35:39 pm »
Looking at it cynically, that might be why they went for Rodgers and Martinez, not Rafa or van Gaal or Villas-Boas. The personality of those three would've made them resign. They would've wanted actual money to spend.

Wouldn't be at all surprised (in fact I'm quite sure of it). Thing is though I'm not sure Rodgers is one to just roll over. Don't think he'll resign, but not convinced he won't kick up some fuss - he's got that kind of self belief and character that Rafa has, if not the experience. At this stage he's certainly got more support with the fans than FSG do and they sure as hell can't sack a 3rd manager in 18 months.

Offline liverpoolfan1

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #965 on: August 31, 2012, 11:35:46 pm »
What benefit was there for Brendan Rodgers in loaning out Andy Carroll?
`
Exactly. Carroll was gotten rid off to reduce the wage bill. And I can gurantee that was pretty much the owner's instructions.
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Offline Snoopy29

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #966 on: August 31, 2012, 11:35:47 pm »
I think the Mayans prophesied this; RAWK will be full of reactionary wankers on 31 . 1 . 2012

lol
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Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #967 on: August 31, 2012, 11:35:55 pm »
What benefit was there for Brendan Rodgers in loaning out Andy Carroll?
Carroll`s price would be massively devalued by rotting on the bench, now he will score goals for hammers and we`ll pick up 20m+ next summer.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #968 on: August 31, 2012, 11:35:56 pm »
My prediction of us finishing 8th or lower looks pretty good. We'll struggle with barely any strikers. Can't see us achieving much.
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Offline red_dub

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #969 on: August 31, 2012, 11:36:01 pm »
This is not true. Kenny pocketed £6 million IIRC.
really? 6 mil? i read here and elsewhere that he refused a much lower sum
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Offline placidcasual

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #970 on: August 31, 2012, 11:36:03 pm »
What are you talking about. Benitez didn't suffer after Houllier. He inherrited a team and added 2 players and one the biggest trophy in football. Houllier left this club in a good shape.

Houllier received far more financial backing than Benitez and spent poorly with it. Benitez had to wheel and deal and scrimp and save and clear his team out. If Houllier left the club in good shape he wouldn't have been fired. That's what I'm on about.

Offline tommy LFC

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #971 on: August 31, 2012, 11:36:12 pm »
So if Rodgers comes out and says he decided not to up bid for Dempsey because it was too much then he's a 'yes' man and we should be worried. Despite doing the same over Siggy's wages.

I can't see Rodgers refusing to meet that Dempsey fee. Especially not on deadline day with nobody else lined up. That was the suits making that decision.
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Offline Warks Moustache

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #972 on: August 31, 2012, 11:36:19 pm »
You have answered your question from before.. Ayre fucked it up, simple as.

The money to bring in two attacking players was there when shipping Carroll out. We just were to stupid to bring them in, fucked it up in house again.

I am sorry I don't understand this comment. Are you saying that it is possible for wages == transfer fees? I have no idea if wages and the transfer kitty are liquid assets in the eyes of the club. Do you know either way?

Offline benn25

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #973 on: August 31, 2012, 11:36:29 pm »
Spurs have done great business this window. Improved their keeper, and arguably in midfield too with Sigurdsson, Dempsey and Dembele replacing Modric and VdV (Who was pretty woeful last season). They also signed a top centre half who can actually stay fit for a whole season.

plus they have a wage ceiling.
We just leave them be for a while, take a breather, let them settle, then bang!  All over them like a tramp on chips.

Offline Scousebeef

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #974 on: August 31, 2012, 11:36:30 pm »
You could argue that Kenny Dalglish and Damien Comolli did as much damage to Liverpool as Gillett and Hicks.

Absolutely fucking shocking.

Carroll, Downing, Henderson - £75m.  Fucking criminal.

Everyone's moaning about our lack of willingness to spend this window, but you can't blame FSG after they had their fingers so badly burned.

Fuck off!!
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Offline Mizerooskie

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #975 on: August 31, 2012, 11:36:34 pm »
Someone just said that the Red Sox also sold without investing significantly. Is that true?
No.  They've had the second highest payroll in baseball for the majority of Henry & Co.'s ownership.

They traded off several expensive players (who were also apparent locker room cancers) this season due to terrible performance.

Offline Armand9

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #976 on: August 31, 2012, 11:36:35 pm »
To sum up this transfer window .... Kept our defence in tact (good), improved the midfield a lot (very good!), weakened an already poor forward line (bad ... and will ultimately cost us dearly in our persuit of CL).

And considering putting the ball in the net is easily our most pressing problem, some people at the club got this very wrong. Couldn't afford to bring in another striker? Fair enough but for fucks sake don't offload one of the three you have. It ain't rocket science, to quote our manager from only two days ago.
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Offline gazzathered

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #977 on: August 31, 2012, 11:36:53 pm »
Had to sort out the wages,done that, now they need to sort out the stadium issues and quick.
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Offline Live in the Now

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #978 on: August 31, 2012, 11:36:56 pm »
Someone just said that the Red Sox also sold without investing significantly. Is that true?
They've spent like drunken sailors for a while now. Had to make trades to clear up funds for this summer and the future, and the rules made it hard to get anything tangible back. Nothing available this winter so if they spend they're likely to be doing it on players who don't represent good value.

Offline Henry Gale

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #979 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:07 pm »
Well one thing we have learned today is the club value Henderson at about £5m so I suspect he will be sold in January or next Summer along with Downing. On a positive note Dani didn't leave so we can have him on the bench.

Offline Samee

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #980 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:11 pm »
You could argue that Kenny Dalglish and Damien Comolli did as much damage to Liverpool as Gillett and Hicks.

Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
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Offline Snoopy29

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #981 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:15 pm »
Just worried that if Sahin goes after his loan...then... it's kinda....well....who's going to fill in the role for lucas?
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Offline horne

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #982 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:16 pm »
heard something on the radio about the lads over in china not getting paid the amounts agreed....drogba and im assuming anelka....if that was a breach of contract?...wonder if we could have got someone like anelka in as a stop gap
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Offline krispy.red

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #983 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:21 pm »
Disappointed a striker didn't come in but I think it was a pretty good window overall. January isn't too far away and in that time hopefully the scouting gets set up with that Dave Fallows joining now that his gardening leave should be over soon and they can start drawing up some names to go after in the next window.

Should have just sold Agger and used that money to purchase a striker. Maybe that would have appeased some of you.

I'm pretty excited to Assaidi and Sterling in a bunch of premier league games this year. Should be something we haven't seen for a while at this club.

Offline skipper757

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #984 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:30 pm »
I don't think they were slashing the wage bill to sell the club.

They were slashing it because it needed to be cut. We had a Champions League wage bill, without the Champions League football.
We spent big and kept giving generous contracts, presumably in the expectation that we would quickly get back into the CL.  That didn't happen.

It then reached a point where there was a difficult decision to be made. You could try throwing more money at it in the hope of a quick fix. Problem is that it's a risky tactic, and one that had already failed.
You end up with players you don't want on wages other clubs can't afford, and you practically have to give them away to get them off the wage bill.

The alternative is to cut back. The downside is that while you're saving money, it's also making it harder to get back to the top.


Go ask Leeds and Portsmouth what happens when your owners don't care about that.

The thing is, this sort of thing works great in baseball.  If you think you're contending with a shout of winning it all, you splash the cash.  During the middle of the baseball season, contending teams trade for big names on teams that have been underperforming.  If you think you're going to win, sign the big names.   If you've got no chance of winning, get rid of the highly-paid players and develop your youth.  Why pay someone superstar wages when the end result is the same as paying a 20-year old pennies?

They did this with Kenny in 2011.  He had led us to 6th after the Hodgson debacle, within a whisker of getting 5th.  The Champions League looked attainable, so FSG authorized the massive spending.

A year later, we don't look like getting into the CL, never mind the league title.  Thus, FSG have gone with the baseball strategy of a salary dump.  If we aren't going anywhere this season, might as well shift wages and play young players.  If the young players develop well and we hang on to our core, maybe we'll sign big names two summers on for a CL/title push.  No sign of contending = play the youth

Sounds great in baseball.

Sounds shit in English football.

Rebuilding isn't going to work in the English "Moneybags" Premier League.  Reputation matters and if we don't show ambition and we are in "rebuilding" mode, then we can forget about hanging on to our top players.  And in baseball, the worse you do, the better young players you can get in a draft.  It doesn't work like that in footy.

The difference between top and bottom in baseball isn't all that much.  The same can't be said for football.  It's too top heavy.  You only fall further behind.  There's no cycle of rebuilding and contending like there is in baseball.  Man City, Man United, Chelsea will always spend big in hopes of contending.  The more we try to rebuild, the further we fall behind.

FSG have not covered themselves in glory here.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #985 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:31 pm »
Even Ian Dowie is talking sense about this club god help us.
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #986 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:38 pm »
We'll wait and see how the Carroll thing goes but if he plays well for West Ham then that will be Newcastle, England and them he's done a job for and us looking like the problem. Fantastic really, pay over the odds wait until he shows a touch of promise then dump, we wouldn't survive buying and selling shares. Kenny and Comolli have had a lot of stick on here recently but the buying and selling and some of the decision making at this club has been poor for some time now. Hodgson and his buys, the money released, sacking Kenny, the managerial short list and director of football episode, the Suarez debacle, I'm not close enough to the club to know whether there are any common factors or personalities but I'm starting to have my suspicions.
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Offline litliper

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #987 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:38 pm »
I actually believe Fulham quite simply didn't want to sell Dempsey to us. It's not like their owner is a level headed business man.
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Offline Lee1970

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #988 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:38 pm »
This is not true. Kenny pocketed £6 million IIRC.

Is that true?


Offline fowlermagic

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #989 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:43 pm »
Bit of a let down there at the end. Delighted how our CM is shaping out, defense is pretty tight when they get their act together and we have added Borini and a class act although a young one in Sterling. Our front line options look like one at this stage in Suarez so someone somewhere when throwing the water out forgot to take the baby out as well. Could be a long season I wont even jinx us mentioning if we got an inj....I wont say it
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Offline Fairytale of 2005

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #990 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:49 pm »
I love the people using Leeds, Rangers and Portsmouth as examples to back up their argument to defend FSG. Conveniently overlooking the fact that our commercial deals and revenues dwarf those of these clubs. Wake up ffs.

Offline 81a

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #991 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:54 pm »
FSG please eBay Linda's black gloves and we can buy Kuyt back.

Offline Twelfth Man

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #992 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:56 pm »
Dalglish did not set the fees, he just requested the players.
I seem to remember some fantastic football under him too and a lot of bad luck.
Kenny is still King in my book and always will be.
And here lies the problem. Exactly who was responsible for the fees? Comolli? Ayre? Kenny? or any combination of.
The courts, the rich, the powerful or those in authority never lie. It has been dealt with 'by the courts' nothing to see here run along.

Offline TheBazz

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #993 on: August 31, 2012, 11:37:58 pm »
Should rename this topic to 'Whats really going on? Selling, selling and 'selling the squad', what?'
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Offline clinical

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #994 on: August 31, 2012, 11:38:12 pm »
really? 6 mil? i read here and elsewhere that he refused a much lower sum

Kenny took home with him £8m it was confirmed in the echo. Or that might have been the staff who got sacked too, can't remember
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Offline TheCharlatan

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #995 on: August 31, 2012, 11:38:13 pm »
So one minute we're willing to trade in Henderson for dempsey, the next we aren't bidding more than 3m for him.

Ayre and Fsg showed their arse on this one.

I can't wait for them to explain themselves. I'm actually very curious as to how this one was fucked up so badly...how many times did we hear that he only wanted us...the price was right...

Once again, I reserve judgment on everything today until I hear words from mens' mouths. Either way the truth will emerge.

Offline scared_person

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #996 on: August 31, 2012, 11:38:14 pm »
Well I think its pretty fucking clear now. FSG have given us a mid table budget and we are going to be a mid table side unless Brendan can do something pretty special.

all this we can compete in the transfer market for anyone was utter bollocks. They wouldn't stump up £6M for Dempsey, a player BR really wanted.

I hope everyone here can now see this: FSG are here for profits, not trophies. They would rather have a fat profit and no trophies than a small profit and loads of trophies. They've given us a budget which should allow us to finish top 8 and if we play extremely well and get lucky with injuries perhaps challenge for top four. Make no mistake 4th place with this squad would be a marvellous achievement. Suarez gets injured and Borini doesn't fit in quickly and we're in for a very long season.

Offline Warks Moustache

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #997 on: August 31, 2012, 11:38:16 pm »
really? 6 mil? i read here and elsewhere that he refused a much lower sum

I am pretty confident it was £6 million. Some places even have it reported as high as £8 million but I can't believe that.

I do know David Conn confirmed that Kenny did take the money.

Edit: Here is a source

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2012/05/19/blood-red-ex-liverpool-fc-boss-kenny-dalglish-didn-t-give-up-his-pay-off-100252-31001322/
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 11:41:25 pm by Warks Moustache »

Offline OLDIE

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #998 on: August 31, 2012, 11:38:24 pm »
How fucking dare you. You should get fucking banned for that.

Do you even have a fucking clue what Kenny did for this club, for this city?!

Maybe he fucked up in the transfer market, but that statement is a fucking disgrace.

THIS WELL SAID

Offline tommy LFC

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Re: What's really going on? Selling, 'rebuilding the squad', what?
« Reply #999 on: August 31, 2012, 11:38:45 pm »
He has already openly stated, before Carroll left, that the squad was small. Since that time three more players have gone and a youth player has come in. Doesn't strike me as a yes man. But I also think he loves the club, so will not want to rock the boat too much this early in his career. I expect veiled comments about the situation.

The reason I love Rafa so much is because of his press conference after the defeat in Athens. He alerted us all to what Hicks and Gillett were up to. If Rodgers knew as much about Liverpool as he claims to, he'd know we'll always back our manager in a situation like this.
Let us never forget Rafael Benitez and what he did for us. A fighter full of guts and passion. A gentleman full of class and dignity. A football manager full of intelligence and pure genius. A Legend.
Adios Rafa, buena suerte.

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