Topic: David N'Gog

[Paragon]

Once upon a time you'd be verbally slaughtered on rawk for saying that this lad wasn't good enough for Liverpool.  However, having scored only two goals in the Championship for Bolton this season, are the rawk majority finally ready to concede that this lad just wasn't good enough?

(By the term 'good enough' I do of course mean good enough to play in a team competing for a top four finish in the Premier League).

[Agger]

Wasn't it general knowledge that he was and is shit?

However, he was young and had potential so you couldn't really write him off back then. But now, it's clear he probably won't become the player we all hoped he would.

[LFC when it suits]

He was a good 4th choice striker for us. He scored some goals and was never good enough to ever be a first choice striker for us. We got him for something like 1.5m which isn't too bad at all. We made a profit when we sold. It was good business.

[El_Pistolero]

Is this one of those 'I told you so' threads for people with inferiority complexes?

[Hazell]

He was a good 4th choice striker for us. He scored some goals and was never good enough to ever be a first choice striker for us. We got him for something like 1.5m which isn't too bad at all. We made a profit when we sold. It was good business.

Possibly but he was decent for us and could have developed further with the right coaching. Don't what's happened at Bolton to be honest but always thought he was ok here. Also one of the worst excuses to start a thread ever.

[Sir Afghan]

What a bunch of bastards ay, supporting a Liverpool player like that.

If only we'd all slaughtered him we could be as smug as you right now.

[Paragon]

What a bunch of bastards ay, supporting a Liverpool player like that.

If only we'd all slaughtered him we could be as smug as you right now.

You support a player vocally at the match. Saying he's good on an internet forum isn't 'support'. (Well, it is for whoppers likes you).

'Smug' for trying to discuss a football related matter on the general football & sport forum. Only on rawk eh?

You enjoy that high horse mate.

[skipper757]

I guess you didn't enjoy his goal against Man United?  Or Arsenal?  You didn't like his goals in the first half of 09-10 where he was one of the bright spots?

We didn't slate him because he was young and he did a job when called upon.

He's obviously not doing well at Bolton but I fail to see your point?  That we should've all agreed when you said he wasn't good enough when he was 20, 21 years old?

[Hazell]

I guess you didn't enjoy his goal against Man United?

One of the best moments I've had supporting the club.

[Crosby Nick]

The problem came when he had to plat far too many games leading the line on his own and try and replicate the Fernando Torres of 2008/09. It would have been a tough ask for any striker let alone a novice.

He was a £1m (or whatever it was) punt. He showed some promising glimpses, he'd even be getting game time here now if he was still with us.

[Azi]

I'd still have him here, yes he was never going to be a world beater but he could finish and was on relatively low wages and its hard to compare with the service received at bolton and the service he would have got here

[Sir Afghan]

 

You support a player vocally at the match. Saying he's good on an internet forum isn't 'support'. (Well, it is for whoppers likes you).

'Smug' for trying to discuss a football related matter on the general football & sport forum. Only on rawk eh?

You enjoy that high horse mate.

[B0151?]

say what you like about him he knew how to play the 4-2-3-1 well

i thought he was a useful squad player and we were worse for getting rid of him

[Paragon]

I guess you didn't enjoy his goal against Man United?  Or Arsenal?  You didn't like his goals in the first half of 09-10 where he was one of the bright spots?

Course I enjoyed his goals, (this being my favourite): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNjOBNbrpzU

I'd never have said he was one of the bright spots of that season though. To be honest I don't think there was one bright spot during that awful season!

[exiledintheUSA]

What a strange OP. The lad gave his all and moved on, so should we.

[GlenJohnson2]

He did his best while he was here.

[rob1408]

I always felt a bit sorry for him if truth be told.  He was asked to fill the boots of Torres when he was out, which was daunting task for anyone, let alone a young kid.  He gave 100% and had a great attitude on the pitch.  I hope he goes on to forge a decent career.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Once upon a time you'd be verbally slaughtered on rawk for saying that this lad wasn't good enough for Liverpool.  However, having scored only two goals in the Championship for Bolton this season, are the rawk majority finally ready to concede that this lad just wasn't good enough?

(By the term 'good enough' I do of course mean good enough to play in a team competing for a top four finish in the Premier League).

I like him as a striker. With good service and a decent run in any side he'll get you goals. He's still reasonably young (23) and a better player than many might suggest. Good, decent young player.

[SP]

Let's delve into Paragon's past:

Getting rid of Insua was the right thing to do, he wasn't good enough. Replacing him with Konchesky however...

I'm not saying Konchesky is great or anything, but fuck me Insua was terrible mate.

...& Meireles and Joe Cole, two quality players.

At least Roy is getting a little deserved credit for once.

Well I think that Cole and Meireles were decent buys. Poulson I agree seems a very poor signing but Konchesky for me isn't as bad as some people think.

I didn't say Roy has improved the team, I said the squad isn't good enough so if he is to improve the team then he'll need until January at least. There are also the two (IMO) quality signings of Meireles and Joe Cole. (Yes I know he signed Konchesky and Poulsen too) but the former of the players I listed lead me to believe that there is still hope for us in the transfer market with Roy in charge.

Glass houses etc.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

You support a player vocally at the match. Saying he's good on an internet forum isn't 'support'. (Well, it is for whoppers likes you).

'Smug' for trying to discuss a football related matter on the general football & sport forum. Only on rawk eh?

You enjoy that high horse mate.

Steven Gerrard. He's great. Brilliant goal he scored against West Ham. People said he had goals in him and they were right. Marvellous player.

[Paragon]

Let's delve into Paragon's past:




Glass houses etc.

Lol, how long did it take you to dig all that out? And what have you proved now having done so?

[JerseyKloppite]

Utterly pointless thread.

If you'd just had a thread discussing David Ngog, asking why it didn't work out, trying to stimulate some debate about whether he might have been good enough etc. it might have been interesting. There are some valid points - was he rushed into action too soon, given too much responsibility, not allowed to develop properly, he showed his class in some big games etc.

But you've started with an assertion (that he's not very good, and never was) and gone on to say 'I told you so' to everyone, as if he was being heralded as the second coming of Fowler and you wisely knew otherwise. If only we'd have listened.

Given your post history, as kindly set out above, you should watch you step with the 'I told you sos'.

[SP]

Lol, how long did it take you to dig all that out? And what have you proved now having done so?

Not very long at all, you post history is full of gems. The point was that people are mistaken about players all of the time. Posting a needlessly smug and aggressive OP is not particularly helpful. It probably would have been interesting to revisit Ngog, but the way that you started the topic has lead to some petty aggro, and more discussion of you rather than the player.

I like Ngog when he was here. Although I am not sad to see the back of the knob "jokes". He was really shafted by circumstance. Things may have developed differently if he was at a stable club rather than the mad house that we were at the time.

[JerseyKloppite]

Not very long at all, you post history is full of gems. The point was that people are mistaken about players all of the time. Posting a needlessly smug and aggressive OP is not particularly helpful. It probably would have been interesting to revisit Ngog, but the way that you started the topic has lead to some petty aggro, and more discussion of you rather than the player.

I like Ngog when he was here. Although I am not sad to see the back of the knob "jokes". He was really shafted by circumstance. Things may have developed differently if he was at a stable club rather than the mad house that we were at the time.

Snap. What do I win?

And 'shafted'?

[stoa]

say what you like about him he knew how to play the 4-2-3-1 well

i thought he was a useful squad player and we were worse for getting rid of him

That's the thing in my view. You could also add that he did a decent job whenever he played.

No matter how he's doing now or what he does in the future, my opinion of his time at Liverpool won't change. I think in most of the games he played, he showed that he knew what he should have done. The "only" problem was that the execution wasn't right (put too much pace on a pass, didn't get a clean contact,...). I still believe he would have gotten better with more experience/training.

[Hazell]

Possibly but he was decent for us and could have developed further with the right coaching. Don't what's happened at Bolton to be honest but always thought he was ok here. Also one of the worst excuses to start a thread ever.

Just to add to this and as others have mentioned, being second choice to Torres was always going to lead to criticism and we've seen how other top teams have a multitude of striking options, something we didn't have the luxury of at the time (and still don't). His finishing for us was fine, I though he was pretty good in front of goal - he took his goals against PSV and Man Utd well for example - but obviously needed to improve his game otherwise. But he was still young and maybe under Rafa he would have. Obviously Roy was Roy and Kenny didn't fancy him but all in all, not a bad purchase really for £1.5m. And we also made a profit on him.

[Paragon]

Given your post history, as kindly set out above, you should watch you step with the 'I told you sos'.

Firstly, the thread wasn't an 'I told you so'. A few users have said that they liked Ngog and disagreed with me (which they were more than welcome to do).

Secondly, I'm not sure what your final comment is supposed to mean? Paul Konchesky wasn't good enough, I'll see that without any reservations. (Neither was Insua). Raul Meireles won PFA fans' player of the year so he was arguably a quality signing. We all know now that Joe Cole has underachieved with Liverpool but have a look through the 2010 threads, everybody was very excited when we signed him (don't forget it was on the back of winning three Premier League titles with Chelsea).

Not sure why I have to discuss all of the above in a David Ngog thread but there you go...

[Immortal, Impolite, Impatient.]

He did okay but he was playing in arguably the strongest Liverpool team for decades regardless of how cheap he was or limited as a footballer I'd have expected him to do better personally.

[Sangria]

The problem came when he had to plat far too many games leading the line on his own and try and replicate the Fernando Torres of 2008/09. It would have been a tough ask for any striker let alone a novice.

He was a £1m (or whatever it was) punt. He showed some promising glimpses, he'd even be getting game time here now if he was still with us.

1.5m David Ngog had a better scoring record with us than 35m Andy Carroll, even before we delve into professionalism and so on. I've seen the argument put forward that Downing's goals in the Europa League refuted the criticism of his non-productiveness. Noone accepted that argument when I argued it in 10-11, when Ngog scored the majority of our goals in the preliminaries and group stage. As I've always argued, Ngog and Insua were cheap enough to have been kept as options just in case the new players didn't work out. If we'd done that, we'd have had better results at lower cost.

[S.Red please]

I think it was one of those were most people knew he wasn't good enough but as a Liverpool player you don't want to say it and always cling on to hope that he may just prove you wrong. Which is what I think we are doing with a few of the players we have here now but that's for another time and thread.

[rob1408]

I think it was one of those were most people knew he wasn't good enough but as a Liverpool player you don't want to say it and always cling on to hope that he may just prove you wrong. Which is what I think we are doing with a few of the players we have here now but that's for another time and thread.

I don't think it was that at all.  I think most people acknowledged the fact that he was a kid that got thrust into the first team and had to replace arguably the finest forward in the league.  He should of been given the time to progress naturally, without pressure.  Instead he basically had to carry our forward line.

[Sangria]

I think it was one of those were most people knew he wasn't good enough but as a Liverpool player you don't want to say it and always cling on to hope that he may just prove you wrong. Which is what I think we are doing with a few of the players we have here now but that's for another time and thread.

He didn't have a bad record for us given his age. 19 goals from 92 appearances, many of those as sub. Compare with Carroll's 11 from 56. One of them was a stand in striker, the other was our record signing. We made 2.5m profit on Ngog. How much profit are we likely to make on Carroll?

[-Willo-]

He was never good enough for us but I'm surprised at how bad he's done for Bolton, I knew he was bad but never thought he was that bad

[JerseyKloppite]

Secondly, I'm not sure what your final comment is supposed to mean? 

I'm not trying to get at you, I just think that your post comes off as a bit aggressive.

...are the rawk majority finally ready to concede that this lad just wasn't good enough?

... implies that you always thought/knew he wasn't, and that everyone else (or at least the majority) was(/were) wrong. Hence, 'I told you so'.

Most people thought Konchesky was crap, you seemed to disgree and say he wasn't that bad, as is your prerogative (similar to the prerogative of RAWKites thinking N'Gog might have the potential to be 'good enough'). By the end of November, and certainly mid-December most people had come to the conclusion that Joe Cole wasn't going to be a star either. And you stuck up for Mr Hodgson when the writing was on the wall for most RAWKites.

Whether they were wrong to have such opinions of a manager and his signings after 3-4 months is open to debate. Suffice to say history proved them right, and Cole, Konchesky and Hodgson did not meet you (varying) expectations.

I don't want to disrupt the thread any further - I think the topic is an interesting one and worth bringing up. Just thought it was a slightly aggresive way to do it...

[bird_lfc]

When I saw the thread title I was hoping it would be saying how well he's doing and how Bolton fans are impressed with him. Top Lad.

[Phil M]

Lol, how long did it take you to dig all that out? And what have you proved now having done so?

I believe you may well have been 'owned' as the kiddies say.Happy Xmas!

[skipper757]

Firstly, the thread wasn't an 'I told you so'. A few users have said that they liked Ngog and disagreed with me (which they were more than welcome to do).

Secondly, I'm not sure what your final comment is supposed to mean? Paul Konchesky wasn't good enough, I'll see that without any reservations. (Neither was Insua). Raul Meireles won PFA fans' player of the year so he was arguably a quality signing. We all know now that Joe Cole has underachieved with Liverpool but have a look through the 2010 threads, everybody was very excited when we signed him (don't forget it was on the back of winning three Premier League titles with Chelsea).

Not sure why I have to discuss all of the above in a David Ngog thread but there you go...

The point, which has been made before, is that no one is infallible in judging players. You wrote off Insua, which was laughable at the time considering his age and the circumstances. You also thought signing Cole and Meireles meant that Hodgson might do well in the January transfer window.

No one else starts threads saying things like "You'd be slated on RAWK for thinking Cole was a poor signing.". People had different opinions at the time and I fail to see your point in this thread.  "Is finally RAWK ready to concede that NGog wasn't good enough?"

How about I start several threads?

"Is Paragon ready to concede he's wrong about Rafa?"
"Is Paragon ready to concede he's wrong about Roy?"
"Is Paragon ready to concede he's wrong about Insua?"

Your OP was obnoxious and heaps scorn upon those on RAWk who had the audacity to champion his efforts, support him, and hoped he'd turn out well.

That's really not very nice

[Malaysian Kopite]

He was never good enough for us but I'm surprised at how bad he's done for Bolton, I knew he was bad but never thought he was that bad

Yeah I'd agree with this. Thought he'd do alright in a midtable team.

[Paragon]

Your OP was obnoxious and heaps scorn upon those on RAWk who had the audacity to champion his efforts, support him, and hoped he'd turn out well.

That's really not very nice

My op has been ludicrously misinterpreted as rude and even aggressive by you and a couple of others when it was never my intention to come across that way. 

Perhaps some aren't happy with the manner in which I brought Ngog up for discussion but despite that it is still my wish to talk about him. Please feel free to talk about David Ngog otherwise the thread may as well be locked.

[The G in Gerrard]

Always thought he was quite decent. Not his fault he was covering for Torres. Very harshly treated by some on here.

Also have you actually watched him at Bolton to see why he hasn't scored many?