Topic: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?

[rossipersempre]

Fowler tears a strip off him in his book. I know it's Robbies opinion, but he really does paint a bad picture of Houllier.

Of course, Fowler has absolutely no axe to grind there does he?

[ricflairandy]

Basicly he doesnt, because the media just as they did with rafa made him out to be a bumbling fool.

This is the same media who bend over for the tactical geniuses of alan curbishly, roy hodgson and sam allardyce.

[Gravy]

I know GH and he's a really nice bloke. He has an ego of course he does, but a lot of stuff is blown out of proportion. The CL thing in 2005 and "his team" was actually pointed out by someone else to him (who I don't know but my money is on Carra). Being in the dressing room after 2005? Well he was invited in by one of the team.

He's a guy who couldn't do enough to help you and although I clamored for his head the last year, something that I must admit I am ashamed of but I thought it was for the best, but don't forget those trophies we won with him and the progression we made. He put us on the road to 2005, no doubt about it

And there is also the very small matter that he almost died managing our football club, and still came back to do it again. Respect is due

[MassDriver]

Yeah I've read Fowler's autobiography as well, a lot of the things about GH don't exactly portray him in a good light

he absolutely had no agenda at all.. none...

And I'd rather believe what Gerrard has to say about Ged..

[ricflairandy]

I know GH and he's a really nice bloke. He has an ego of course he does, but a lot of stuff is blown out of proportion. The CL thing in 2005 and "his team" was actually pointed out by someone else to him (who I don't know but my money is on Carra). Being in the dressing room after 2005? Well he was invited in by one of the team.

He's a guy who couldn't do enough to help you and although I clamored for his head the last year, something that I must admit I am ashamed of but I thought it was for the best, but don't forget those trophies we won with him and the progression we made. He put us on the road to 2005, no doubt about it

And there is also the very small matter that he almost died managing our football club, and still came back to do it again. Respect is due

Basicly there are 2 GHs. The pre heart problem guy who was by all accounts a nice bloke who ruled with an iron fist. Knew what he was doing and did it damn well.

And the 2nd GH, the post heart problem GH. The one who let the players run the show, didnt seem to know what he was doing, and blamed everyone else. I only met him once and he seemed a nice guy back in 2004. But there are reports from others who met him who say he wasnt.

I actually backed him and thought he should have been given another year. I defended him to everyone who didnt. However looking back, he did have to go.

[ricflairandy]

he absolutely had no agenda at all.. none...

And I'd rather believe what Gerrard has to say about Ged..

2 sides to every story. Or 3 in this case..

[MichaelA]

Allez Allez! Ged gave the Club some much needed belief. We were going nowhere until he took over; the 1990's had been an unmitigated disaster for our Club.

Ged was never the same after the heart scare. He made some poor decisions in personnel and tactics, and I think he stopped listening to people around him like Thommo. We played some terrible football in his final season, and it was clear that he was spent as a manager. However, Rafa could not have got that team to Istanbul without the ground work undertaken by Houllier. We moved light years forward during his tenure.

I'll always have a soft spot for him; I think the Roma return was one of my most emotional moments at Anfield - I was in the Lower Centenary directly opposite the dugouts, and remember seeing his red scarf appear on the touchline. Emile's header that night is one of my most vivid memories.

[ricflairandy]

Ged was never the same after the heart scare. He made some poor decisions in personnel and tactics, and I think he stopped listening to people around him like Thommo.

I think it was the opposite. I think he started listening to to many people.

[Godmadebloodred]

Because he tried to manipulate his media and was caught doing that.

I still like the man. He sorted us out.

[MichaelA]

I think it was the opposite. I think he started listening to to many people.

My suspicion was that he felt a bit threatened by Thommo. Phil had the team performing well while Ged was in hospital, and I always had a feeling that GH had the hump about that and became a bit more insular when he returned. He also started to believe he was invincible. I remember him uttering the 'ten games from greatness' line and my heart sank, because I knew he was not focused on the matters in hand, but was starting to think about the 'what if...'

[Crosby Nick]

I'll always have a soft spot for him; I think the Roma return was one of my most emotional moments at Anfield - I was in the Lower Centenary directly opposite the dugouts, and remember seeing his red scarf appear on the touchline. Emile's header that night is one of my most vivid memories.

Same here. I was in the Lower Centenary too. Come to think of it that was my last European home game

I wasn't lucky enough to witness any of the 70s and 80s games in the flesh, nor the runs under rafa so that Roma game is my personal European highlight. Heskey absolutely bullied Walter Samuel that night - madness!

[MichaelA]

Emile's best game for us; he coulda shoulda been a Drogba type beast.

[rednich85]

Its a fact. Whats so 'fucking hell' about it?.

Rafa will always be remembered as the man who won us the European cup in 2005. That doesn't mean we cannot acknowledge Geds contribution in terms of the players we had. I

And I will not mince my words here. I detest people who belittle his legacy and potshots at him because of their loyalty to another manager. To me he was a very good(albeit flawed like most) manager who made us dream again and put his health and sanity on the line for the club. Always a gentleman , he will always be remembered.

Of course fans who joined the bandwagon after 2005 will not understand

I'm not belittling anyone.

Giving Houllier any sort of nod for building a European Cup winning side is wrong. I know its a pointless argument but do you think Houllier could of taken that group of players to the pinnacle of European football? Not on his nelly.

And he wasn't always a 'gentleman'.

He was a power hugry, image obsessed, meglomaniac who almost killed himself pushing the boat out.

He's a great man but let's not pretend he was an 'uncle' type figure.

And his brand of football was pulled from the Roy Hodgson football acadamy. 2003-2005 was some of the worst football I've have the misfortune of watching, under Ged.

To summarise...

Giving him any credit for Istanbul is idiotic in my opinion. Yes, they were his players, but they weren't playing under his guidance and only Sami and Finnan were top class.

[MassDriver]

I'm not belittling anyone.

Giving Houllier any sort of nod for building a European Cup winning side is wrong. I know its a pointless argument but do you think Houllier could of taken that group of players to the pinnacle of European football? Not on his nelly.

And he wasn't always a 'gentleman'.

He was a power hugry, image obsessed, meglomaniac who almost killed himself pushing the boat out.

He's a great man but let's not pretend he was an 'uncle' type figure.

And his brand of football was pulled from the Roy Hodgson football acadamy. 2003-2005 was some of the worst football I've have the misfortune of watching, under Ged.

To summarise...

Giving him any credit for Istanbul is idiotic in my opinion. Yes, they were his players, but they weren't playing under his guidance and only Sami and Finnan were top class.

I won't grace that with a 'reasoned' argument.

Let me just say that I vehemently disagree with you. And would be banned if I said what i really feel about this

"power hugry, image obsessed, meglomaniac"

[zero zero]

Giving him any credit for Istanbul is idiotic in my opinion. Yes, they were his players, but they weren't playing under his guidance and only Sami and Finnan were top class.

I think he should get a little credit for getting us into (the qualifying rounds of) the competition. As for the campaign itself, no, not really.

[rednich85]

I won't grace that with a 'reasoned' argument.

Let me just say that I vehemently disagree with you. And would be banned if I said what i really feel about this

"power hugry, image obsessed, meglomaniac"

Are you THAT angry about it?

Really?

[MassDriver]

Are you THAT angry about it?

Really?

Lets leave it eh? Not derail the thread and all...

[rednich85]

I think he should get a little credit for getting us into (the qualifying rounds of) the competition. As for the campaign itself, no, not really.

You're right.

He done a sterling job getting us into the competition.

Was that the first year 4th in the prem went into the big one?

[rednich85]

Lets leave it eh? Not derail the thread and all...

You have some anger issues if we can't just talk it out.

Smoke a bowl and chill.

Its a thread about the merits of Ged. Would hardly derail the thread.

Unless 'tis a flame. War you want. In which casen I'm out.

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

Never liked him, the football was horrible for periods and was glad when he left.

[MassDriver]

You have some anger issues if we can't just talk it out.

Smoke a bowl and chill.

Its late.. And smoking a bowl is exactly what i was gonna do before crashing in sometime..

[zero zero]

You're right.

He done a sterling job getting us into the competition.

Was that the first year 4th in the prem went into the big one?

I think it was, so there' a bit of shared credit for getting to co-efficient up.

Never liked him, the football was horrible for periods and was glad when he left.

Ha! Who was the last Liverpool manager you actually liked?

[Gnurglan]

- He deserves credit for Istanbul, to an extent. Eight out of the starting XI came through under him. So stop telling me he doesn't deserve ANY credit.

The thing with GH is that he just happens to have had a piece in everything good.

It was, somehow, common knowledge among LFC fans that he developed the majority of the French team that won the World Cup in '98. I actually bought into that myself at the time. What actually happened when he was in charge of France? Didn't qualify for the WC. How many of those French players did he, realistically, develop as a manager of the U21/23 sides? For comparison, I think Segura & Co would be right to claim they're the ones doing the hard work with our young players, not the coaches of the English FA.

It was practically his team that won in Istanbul. What actually happened when he was in charge? 1/4 Finals.

Naturally, GH has every right to take credit for the success he achieved when in charge. But why try to take credit for Istanbul, only to then have a laugh at us for finishing 7th with Gerrard and Torres? Why talk about that text message, just after Rafa got sacked? I don't think it was a coincidence.

When you look at things together, rather than as individual events, you see a pattern. It's best seen in how we made progress as a team. 4th and 3rd under Evans and going nowhere, wasn't it? Then 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 5th, 4th... always improving at this incredible speed under GH.

For the record though, the Treble was a great achievement. And when we beat Man U 3-1, I thought, for the first time in many years, that we'd go on to win the league.

[rednich85]

Its late.. And smoking a bowl is exactly what i was gonna do before crashing in sometime..

Enjoy mate.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Just wondered. I know Istanbul was a huge change in how we perceived our club in terms of trophies, and that we were now aiming for the big two rather than any other cups, but I find Houllier now tends to get looked upon as a failure rather than success because he didn't win either the league or European Cup.

Those who remember the days and nights we had in 2001, and even our Champions League run in 2002 would argue otherwise, but still there's a lot who don't remember Ged with fondness, maybe because of the Fowler fallout, I don't know.

His exit in 2004 was the right move for the club but it didn't mean he had failed here. He turned us right round.

Indeed remember that Success Has Many Fathers banner that Sky put an image of Hodgson on? Bill, Bob, Joe, Kenny and Rafa made it on, but Ged did not, although they all won one of the big prizes.

Does anyone else think he's a little overlooked in terms of his contribution to LFC?

Brilliant man. Had us playing great football. Built us up as a team and as a club and the facilities and legacy he left for the future was excellent. Rafa took a lot of it on and it's a shame to think that escalating legacy and potential was destroyed so efficiently by Gillette and Hicks.

[Brentieke]

Imagine there was a Gerard Mafia here to counter the Rafa Mafia.

Would have been havoc.

[Eeyore]

Allez Allez! Ged gave the Club some much needed belief. We were going nowhere until he took over; the 1990's had been an unmitigated disaster for our Club.

Ged was never the same after the heart scare. He made some poor decisions in personnel and tactics, and I think he stopped listening to people around him like Thommo. We played some terrible football in his final season, and it was clear that he was spent as a manager. However, Rafa could not have got that team to Istanbul without the ground work undertaken by Houllier. We moved light years forward during his tenure.

I'll always have a soft spot for him; I think the Roma return was one of my most emotional moments at Anfield - I was in the Lower Centenary directly opposite the dugouts, and remember seeing his red scarf appear on the touchline. Emile's header that night is one of my most vivid memories.

Incredible night that made even sweeter by Capello insinuating that the Liverpool players may have taken something to improve their performance when it was pretty clear that they were merely plugged into the billion watt electric atmosphere.

[petecolonia]

Reckon his feud, if any, with Rafa, is for him and Rafa. The man pulled us back together, instilled a bit of what was needed and risked his health for the club. Remember when he came back?

[MichaelA]

Incredible night that made even sweeter by Capello insinuating that the Liverpool players may have taken something to improve their performance when it was pretty clear that they were merely plugged into the billion watt electric atmosphere.

It felt like anything was possible that night. Happy Days.

[Barneylfc∗]

I have loads of respect for Houllier. He got Pegguy Arphexad 5 winners medals in 6 months without him playing a single minute of football 

Seriously reckon if he had retired when he had the heart problems, he would be held in the same regard as Shankly, Paisley and Dalglish. And everyone would be 100% certain we would have won the league had he stayed on.
As it was, he came back, tried his best to carry on the great work he had done, and ultimately made us a little bit worse.

Some of the best memories of supporting the Reds when he was in charge with the cup finals, the Danny Murphy goals at Old Traffourd, the European wins against Barca, Roma, Porto.

He'll never have anything but respect from me though.

[sattapaartridge]

I think he was good up until his heart surgery. He played counter-attacking football with Owen and Heskey, but he properly messed up after his heart.

Le Tallec, Pongolle, Cheyrou, Salif Daio, Diouf, Traore and Biscan were all players who really werent good enough, and they cost us a lot of money at the time.

He got in Anelka, who played really well, but went for Diouf. He lost his judgement of players.

Signing Didi and Hyypia were probably the best thing he did for the club.

[Spongebob Redpants]

Probably stayed too long, his last season was some of the worst football I have ever seen

Had some great times when he was manager though

Got us back to winning trophies which was the big thing and for which he should always be respected, but was never the same after the heart scare .

At the end of his final season though , some of the football really was dire ( as were some of the excuses he came out with after poor performances ).

[Barneylfc∗]

Traore and Biscan were really important at different times on the way to winning the Eurpoean Cup in fairness. Biscan bossed the midfield against Deportivo away. Biscan made a few important blocks in the second half in the Final. Agree though that their good moments were few and far between

[Gerard Power]

I remember us going out of an FA Cup reply at Anfield to a 10 man Crystal Palace team and have Houllier claim in the post match interview that it was a "blessing in disguise". His interviews towards the end became cringe worthy and it started to effect his grasp on reality. He lost a lot of respect with some Liverpool fans towards the end through his stubbornness to admit mistakes and adapt.

The last 2 seasons were some of the most depressing football i've ever witnessed from a Liverpool team. We genuinely seemed to be on the brink on something special in the summer of 2002 and instead of signing Duff and Anelka, he opted for Diouf, Cheyrou and Diao. We could have taken that next step and become champions, but like Kenny to some degree he made the wrong transfer choices and spent the next 2 seasons trying to rebuild the confidence and desire that was very prevalent in his teams from 2000-2002.

Plus i appreciate there being 2 sides to every story but as said before, the image painted of him by Fowler is not pretty. Plus his vicious vendetta against Ginola all these years is bizarre.

We owe him the respect of 2001 but he'll never be held by me in the same regard as Benitez as a manager.

[Eeyore]

Probably stayed too long, his last season was some of the worst football I have ever seen

Had some great times when he was manager though

Funny that how managers tend to have terrible seasons when they lose the faith of certain individuals in the team. Must of been nice for Jamie, Stevie, Danny and Mikey to be consulted about the replacement of the manager, it just shows they can be trusted though because none of them alerted Ged to what was happening behind his back.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Funny that how managers tend to have terrible seasons when they lose the faith of certain individuals in the team. Must of been nice for Jamie, Stevie, Danny and Mikey to be consulted about the replacement of the manager, it just shows they can be trusted though because none of them alerted Ged to what was happening behind his back.

Yep. From what's said, it's always the same names. Time and again.

[RedSoc]

Was a lovely guy, gave us some unforgettably great moments, but ultimately we played some pretty awful football under him. A lot of long ball to Heskey and in the latter years it got worse and worse..

Signed some terrible players - Jean Michel Ferri, Bernard Diomede (seriously..) and Gregory Vignal.

Also signed! - Biscan, Rigobert Song, Big Sally Diao, Igor, Eric Meijer (!!!!), Titi Camara to include just a few. All of them great characters and whether or not they were 'LFC quality', you wouldn't change it for the world would you??!! hehe.

[Godmadebloodred]

Whoa....I tell you what!!

I'm never managing this lot! Am I glad FSG aren't considering me for the role!! Phhheeeeewwww!!
Dodged a bullet there!!!

[Hazell]

Gave me some of the best memories supporting the club, won some trophies, bought some great players so I'll always be grateful to him, regardless of the faults he has.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Gave me some of the best memories supporting the club, won some trophies, bought some great players so I'll always be grateful to him, regardless of the faults he has.

I can't see 2001 ever being topped for me in following the reds. Made pretty much every game and all three finals. Wonderful season that one.