Topic: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim?

[Rafa_La]

Allez Allez Allez

Ged is Ged

Simples

[Sheik_Yerbouti]

I'm pretty sure that's 'dealing with the media 101'.

In alot of cases, certainly, but there is alot which should be anwsered honestly aswell.

[Red Scouse]

it seemed like a return to the good times

as is often mooted - good football is winning football, not pretty football. and we won a lot under gh

Bang on that.

Remember the league games against Arsenal, Wenger out thought.

Season he fell ill - we would have won the league.

Coming back as AV manager and pressing both hands upon the 'This Is Anfield' sign.

God bless the man.

[Cpt_Reina]

I just dont he himself is all that likeable and his reputation suffers because of it.

He did a lot of good for this club though. Dragged us forward in many respects off the pitch and had his fair amount of success on it.

[The Red artist.]

I have great respect for Ged, turned the club round, and wasnt he responsible for the 'New' Melwood? 2001 was an incredible season, wonderful memories. He's a lovely fella too, i was lucky enough to meet him a couple of times at Melwood, when he signed my portrait i did of him. I framed a print of the portrait and gave it to him, a couple of weeks later a letter arrived from Ged thanking me for the print, sound fella.

Annoys me when his face isnt on the banners, not right that, imo.

[bigbonedrawky]

While i respected him for the honours he brought to the club,unfortunately he was the first LFC Manager to make a tactical decision, that i knew, (99% certain) to be the wrong move...That was worrying. (no i didnt go screaming for his head )
However respect is a two way street and Carra sending that text showed a lack of respect but Houllier telling everyone about it while slagging off another LFC Manager showed even less.

 Ps I'd still be buzzing if i ever met him 
 

[hitman89762000]

I shook his hand at the reebok once... Proper class act and he deserves to be recognised for what he did for us.

[Sissoko78]

1) It has never been enough for Houllier to limit his claims to what credit he was obviously due.

2) His football was neither in keeping with the pass-and-move ethos, nor really tactically sophisticated (though it was still a decent mix up to 2002-03).

3) He drove Fowler out of the club.

4) He lost his grip on football reality in terms of the excuses he trotted out over the last 18 months of his reign.

5) He didn't learn from his mistakes - in fact he doubled down on some of his mistakes.

6) He allowed certain personalities in the dressing room way too much leeway - and apparently continued to stoke egos in an unhelpful way after he'd left.

That said, Houllier did a lot of good for Liverpool, and it isn't obvious: i) who else should have got the job ahead of him or ii) that they would have been markedly more successful than him.

With hindsight, you can say it would have been ideal for him to have left the club after 2001-02.  But at that time we were close, and all the signs were that the team was still building, and he certainly deserved one and probably two seasons' leeway.

It's a sad fact that he failed spectacularly in those two years, despite being given considerable transfer funds to build on his initial successes.

That is another reason why I find his conduct towards Benitez after he left really galling.

He would know he had some bad luck at Liverpool, but really on the whole he was given more than sufficient time, resources and backing to get us to the top of the tree.

Yet he has the hide to snipe at Benitez, who was encumbered by the overpriced Cisse signing, plenty of deadwood in the side, the Owen contract situation and no academy pipeline to speak of. 

Benitez, a man who with minimal addition to the Houllier misfits put on a tactical masterclass and maximised the talents of Gerrard, Carragher and Hyypia on the way to beating Europe's best and claiming the European Cup.

Benitez, the man who in contrast to the support Houllier received, found that his initial successes were met with a couple of brass-necked shysters who went for his throat and pilfered the club's loot to the extent there was a negative net transfer spend over the closing years of his time at the club.

Houllier ought to understand better than most that an injustice was done to Benitez.  Yet all he's ever done is try to claim Benitez's achievements as his own.

[hitman89762000]

Re god leavibg lfc, leeds made a bid.. We accepted how exactly does that translate to "houllier drove him out the club"?!

[Sissoko78]

Remember the league games against Arsenal, Wenger out thought.

Really?  How did the outthinking go in losing to 10 man Arsenal at Anfield in 2001-02?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2001/dec/24/match.sport9

Probably cost us the title, that.

[Sissoko78]

Re god leavibg lfc, leeds made a bid.. We accepted how exactly does that translate to "houllier drove him out the club"?!

Have you read Fowler's autobio?

[Gnurglan]

right just what we need...another conspiracy theorist. believe the worst in people you dont like eh?

It's too late at night for me to dig up the links with the quotes, contradictions and the eternal progress stuff. It's too late to try and explain. Just think of Istanbul, how he tried to take credit for that win.

[hitman89762000]

Have you read Fowler's autobio?

Im afraid i haven't no. I just lways assumed the decision came down to robbie cos he didnt have to sign the contract there.

[Sangria]

It's too late at night for me to dig up the links with the quotes, contradictions and the eternal progress stuff. It's too late to try and explain. Just think of Istanbul, how he tried to take credit for that win.

I don't really blame him for that, or for most of the none too pleasant things he's done. He was the flipside of Hodgson. Whereas Hodgson was an example of someone who didn't care about the club at all, Houllier cared perhaps too much, with the dream of himself as the messiah bringing back the good days. When it didn't work out, he persisted in his belief, and came up with some bizarre things to justify it. But at the heart of it was his love for the club, so I can't blame him for any of that.

[On Axis]

Ged, like Rafa, was one of us despite being foreign. Studied English in Liverpool, did he not, and was on the terraces at Anfield. It broke his heart leaving us the way he did but he deserves great respect for whipping us back into our groove after the Evans years.

[hitman89762000]

This is a guy who stood on the kop when he was a student and delivered us trophies after years of us winning fuck all, he should have been on that banner.

If anything he treatment of how he had to find out he was being sacked was disgraceful.!

[keyo]

Was the right man at the right time to move us on from sourness and Evans, as mentioned by some....instilled discipline and a stronger mentality and dealt with the disruptive elements.....improving up until his illness

His appointment as joint manager put many offside, with moores shown to be a bottle merchant and Evans undeservedly knifed in the back and dealt with in a manner that was appalling...however plenty saw the need to deal with the influence of nice and ruddock et all, and by 2001 we had a team full of good players who could challenge, and plenty of young lads coming through

The fowler episode undermined him in terms of how he was viewed and how he dealt with players, it was one thing dealing with a core of players who are too influential, another not being able to deal with one player who is, in his eyes, indisciplined.....his subsequent fall from grace was rapid, littered with poor decisions (anelka, diouf, etc), discredited claims (cheyrou - the new zidane, 10 games from greatness, fsp and alt) and failing football and his press conferences provided a poor footnote for him, as did his actions after Istanbul which tainted the fact that he was there celebrating with lots of players he had a connection with

He started out untrusted and unpopular, won over a lot of fans with his success, the football getting better until it peaked in 2002 season, so he deserves plenty of credit for what he did.....if he left after his illness he would probably be very fondly remembered ......sadly a lot of attitudes are coloured by the negatives and not the positives....but he was a red, and remains one

As a footnote, the thing with ginola was ridiculous and should have warned anybody of his bitterness and tendency to apportion blame (ginola made a mistake and a poor choice, but then who doesn't in football, but not everyone is vilified for it)

[RayPhilAlan]

We've never since had the quality of squad that Ged put together for that treble season. Up front, 2 of Owen, Heskey, Fowler and Litmanen. Sure, Litmanen could have played more often, but who are you going to drop? Owen & Heskey were the best strikers in England, and Robbie was their backup. Robbie Fowler! Along with Rush and Torres he was the best finisher I've seen in a red shirt, and he could only make it as backup. The three of them scored over 60 goals that season. How many did Carroll, Suarez and Bellamy get?

Central midfield - read this and weep - Dietmar Hamann, Steven Gerrard, Gary McAllister and Jamie Redknapp. And then the wide midfielders - Patrik Berger, Vladimir Smicer, Danny Murphy and Nick Barmby, all excellent ball-players, creators and regular goal-scorers. Murphy scored 10 that season, the same as the young no.17 who reached double figures for the first time in his career.

Our back 4 for most of the season was Babbel, Henchoz, Hyypia and Carragher. Again, there were goals - Babbel and Sami got 10 between them - but also we kept lots of clean sheets, most notably the 180 minutes against Barcelona. We'll never forget Henchoz's goalkeeping in Cardiff either! Westerveld wasn't the greatest goalie we've had by any means, but having 4 good, experienced (even Carra had been around for a few years) guys at the back helped him out. They all had a good head for the game too - 2 of them have become managers now, haven't they? Maybe another one will join that list one day... (if you ask Al555 he already has!)

The next season we added Dudek (and Kirkland) as goalies, and Riise as left back, moving Carra to right back to cover for the illness-stricken Babbel. Even stronger. 2nd in the league, quarterfinalists in our first go at the Champions League. Won't forget that Germany 1 Liverpool 5 game either.

What a team. One interesting thing I note about it was how it wasn't just a cup team. Yes, we won all the cups we entered in 2000-2001, but we also finished 3rd in the league. Using the squad, rather than just the favourites, meant we could compete successfully on 4 fronts. Makes me wish for greater depth the season just gone - with backups for Lucas, Gerrard and Suarez, what would our season have been like?

[smegger56]

He should be regarded as one of our finest managers, regardless of those last two aweful years.

The first 3 full seasons showed great potential. The 00/01 season showed we could compete for honors. The 01/02 season showed we could challenge. But, as many have stated, his cardiac episode did something. I think it started with the decision to replace Hamann in the 2nd leg at Levekusan which was a sign. Then, the signings of that summer just obliterated the good work he had done. I'll never get why he didn't sign Anelka.

Trying to take credit for Istanbul is a disgrace. It really is.

I will remember him fondly. And I'll always feel that the heart problem he suffered in the 01/02 damaged the work he had done (but at least he's still alive, which is the important thing overall).

[shelovesyou]

2001 was mental. What a year.
Like others have said, he helped the club progress in many ways.
He started the CL nights and I think we should be grateful to him for that.

[Spireite]

I remember the Worthington Cup final as well, played in a game that day and broke my wrist. Got home in time to see Owen score the winner against the mancs then went to the hospital, good times  A treble one year and second in the league another isn't bad at all.

[Guz-kop]

Simple answer is that we are spoilt by the success we had just over a decade before him and immediately after him.

I am 25 and consider him a legend. The treble year was immense. The year after gave us belief we were in with a shout for major trophies. He was a guy who loved the club, gave it his all but fell short of where we wanted to end up. Gave me some immense memories along the way though..

[JohnnyShinra]

The one thing that doesn't get much credit is the 2001/2002 title challenge. I always read 2008-2009 was the closest to winning the league since 1990 and 1996-97 second but if you look at the table at  33 games played 1 point behind Arsenal though they had a game in hand and they won their last 13 games. At the same stage in 2008-2009 only had 3 more points and 3 points behind man united with a game more played

[TheYashLFC]

I think he is very much respected but since he never won the Champions League or Prem he isn't in the same league as Rafa. Gerard will always be welcome at Anfield for sure and the fans will always appreciate what he's done for this football club.

[Keith Lard]

After his heart attack he simply wasn't the same. He came back too soon, his judgement was impaired, and that harms his legacy.

Personally, I think he had his flaws but he brought us into the 21st century and did some great things for the club. I have a lot of respect for GH.

[Armless Joe Gambino]

Final nail in the Boot Room's coffin....the damage was already done but any attempts to salvage that legacy went out the door with Roy Evans.

Hoo - Hoo - Houllier  ''Who got the Reds out?'' and all that went with it was great....absolutely brilliant!
Nothing but respect for that but it did change a lot, for better or for worse.......the jury is still out on that one, especially today.

[subroc]

He was a success for most o fhis tenure though by the end, it was clear that he could not continue anymore. He deserves more respect for his achievements. I think that his legacy has suffered a lot because of the inevitable comparisons with Benitez. Also his display of sour grapes after Istanbul did not help the peceptions o fhim either.

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

We had brilliant success under him. He made his sides hard to beat, and we had a way of playing under him at the turn on the century that was very effective.

The last two years soured him in my eyes. Forget what he's said since, which makes him sound either like a bitter or barmy. His press conferences were that bad they were almost comical, despite him continually cosying up to the media. The last two years sullied his reputation, and rightfully so. It's not what you do when things are great that is often remembered by some; it's how you react when things start to turn against you. Houllier has a side to him that is vindictive and bitter.

And the IrishKop banner has five managers present as it is inspired by the five pillars of Communism. Houllier wasn't on it as he didn't win either of the big two and isn't or won't be remembered as fondly as these, at least in my opinion;

[GaelicSoul]

Thing is growing up as Liverpool fan in the 1990's wasn't easy. We enjoyed some great football displays under Evans, but there was nothing to show for in the trophy cabinet. I have been supporting LFC Since 1990, what a time to start eh, and can only really remember the FA Cup win in 1992 against Sunderland, and beating Bolton 2-1 in the league cup. That was really all LFC fans had to celebrate in them barren years, while watching Man U winning trophy after trophy. When Houllier came along, he understood that LFC was falling fast behind, and was correct in trying to modernise it, especially Melwood. We saw players like Danny Murphy, Gerrard and Carra,  getting there chance under GED. They always had and still have lots of praise for him for his man- management skills. I don't know why he never got on with Fowler. Maybe he was paranoid, and may have believed the rumours that Robbie was a troublemaker in the dressing room etc.

But one thing is for certain, i will never forget 2001, and the team we had challenging on all fronts. Players like Babbel, Ziege, Owen, Fowler, Hamann, Gerrard, pairing Henchoz and Hypia, who were all playing magnificent stuff. Heading into the following Season, we had so much optimism, and really felt we had a chance to make the final attack on the Premier League title. It wasn't meant to be. Sadily i will always remember the poor signing's that summer of, Diouf instead of keeping Anelka, Diao, (the next Zidane Cheyrou), "Les Gems" La Tallec and Sinama Pongolle. We played some very ugly football under GED. He often critized the fans for not giving him enough support, and it always seemed like the 5 year plan was getting longer and longer..

I always have fond memories of him, especially after his heart attack and coming back to the Anfield dugout. He helped move us into the right direction, but ultimately wasn't the man to lead us there.  I felt he listened too much to the media, and always was more interested in what they thought of him.

But on hence sight, he was a good manager, and gave us our first real taste of European football and success in such a long long time.

Thank you GED!

[Walk on, walk on]

Our treble season under Ged was one of my most memorable times watching football. Like Jimmy says above, we had a style that were very effective.

Subsequently in his last couple of seasons we lost our way, and I was increasingly put off by the phrase "turned the corner". According to Ged, we were turning the corner every week, but he didn't mention it was around a square.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Gets plenty of respect from me. Maybe it's easier for a new kid, who's brought up on the league and champions league is king, everything else second tier mindset to slightly discount the man's achievements. For those who lived through the mostly barren Evans years, dodgy defending, to finally have a team that you could trust not to crack under pressure, that won a lot of trophies, was fantastic. The UEFA Cup's best format was when we won it as well.

[MassDriver]

FUCK.ING.HELL

Its a fact. Whats so 'fucking hell' about it?.

Rafa will always be remembered as the man who won us the European cup in 2005. That doesn't mean we cannot acknowledge Geds contribution in terms of the players we had. I

And I will not mince my words here. I detest people who belittle his legacy and potshots at him because of their loyalty to another manager. To me he was a very good(albeit flawed like most) manager who made us dream again and put his health and sanity on the line for the club. Always a gentleman , he will always be remembered.

Of course fans who joined the bandwagon after 2005 will not understand

[KopMcGinty]

Before 2005, the treble season was my best 'watched in the flesh' memory from supporting LFC.

rafa eclipsed Ged and is rightlyheld a notch above in esteem but Ged did a huge amount to modernise the club and I think his success off the pitch as much as on it is what actually made us a viable project for Rafa.  We had the recent European success to show our promise but If we had still been muddling along with outdated notions off the pitch Rafa may well have not looked our way IMO.

Pre Ged I had the feeling we were in a slow but terminal spiral down, he came in and introduced the club to  modern methods and thinking in many areas, he stabilised our decline and brought us some glory building the foundation for Rafa to come in and do what he did.  houllier could never have taken the 2005 players to the CL win IMO and it was the rafa signings and tactics that took us to that next step.  Doesnt mean Houllier didnt contribute or be an overall success.  He left us in a better place than when he arrived it was just the right time for the club to move on and fortunately we got the move right, going from a very good manager to an amazing one.

[ricflairandy]

Forget the football, we won things with him, so in that respect hes a legend. But the facts are after his heart issue he was never the same and lost control to certain players.

Still a legend. Kind of like rafa when he went to inter, ged was the same at villa. All he ever did was talk about liverpool in his press conferences and clearly wished he was still here.

[DutchRed]

He apparently tried to take credit for Istanbul
He sold Robbie and didn't buy Anelka
He didn't use Jari Litmanen enough
He bought Traore, Smicer, Cheyrou, Diao & Diouf
Unlike the men on the banner, he never won the league or European Cup
The football we played from 2003 onwards was shocking

That's just about all the obvious ones that'll get trotted out.


Me, I'll always remember him for 2001

Well

- He deserves credit for Istanbul, to an extent. Eight out of the starting XI came through under him. So stop telling me he doesn't deserve ANY credit.
- True, but terrible transfer business is something no manager is immune for.
- Of course he didn't. Litmanen was physically unable to cope with the demands of Dutch football, let alone English.
- And for those five he bought Dudek, Hamann, Hyypia, Finnan and Riise.
- Nup, he didn't win either. Yet it was him who put Liverpool back on track. Without him, Benitez wouldn't have been here in the first place.
- True. But Benitez' last season was hardly a glorious display of the finest attacking football. Was it?

[WTF?]

Did anyone see him on the pitch at the end of the City / QPR game? And then on Saturday he was at the Champions League Final.

Likes a party does our Ged!

[Brentieke]

Won the league cup and finished 5th and fans were calling for him to go. Got us to the champions league the next year and was sacked.

This happened to a man that had been our most succesful since Dalglish and had done more than anyone to drag us kicking and screaming into modern football.

A timely reminder to people who think LFC died last week.

[Kopite B205]

Fowler tears a strip off him in his book. I know it's Robbies opinion, but he really does paint a bad picture of Houllier.

[007.lankyguy]

Fowler tears a strip off him in his book. I know it's Robbies opinion, but he really does paint a bad picture of Houllier.

Yeah I've read Fowler's autobiography as well, a lot of the things about GH don't exactly portray him in a good light

[Vinay]

Meh.