Author Topic: Why doesn't Gerard Houllier get more respect/acclaim? (Read 33541 times)

WhiteHeat · « **on:** May 23, 2012, 11:05:16 pm »

Just wondered. I know Istanbul was a huge change in how we perceived our club in terms of trophies, and that we were now aiming for the big two rather than any other cups, but I find Houllier now tends to get looked upon as a failure rather than success because he didn't win either the league or European Cup.

Those who remember the days and nights we had in 2001, and even our Champions League run in 2002 would argue otherwise, but still there's a lot who don't remember Ged with fondness, maybe because of the Fowler fallout, I don't know.

His exit in 2004 was the right move for the club but it didn't mean he had failed here. He turned us right round.

Indeed remember that Success Has Many Fathers banner that Sky put an image of Hodgson on? Bill, Bob, Joe, Kenny and Rafa made it on, but Ged did not, although they all won one of the big prizes.

Does anyone else think he's a little overlooked in terms of his contribution to LFC?

Outer Mongolian Red · « **Reply #1 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:10:24 pm »

Yes he is overlooked.Reasons being most fans wanted him out by the end and the cult of Rafa,who he slagged off.

helmboy_nige · « **Reply #2 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:10:44 pm »

I think its mainly down to who followed him. Personally, I always had a soft spot for Ged.

I think we were building pretty nicely under him but the 2002 world cup transfers just screwed us.

rossipersempre · « **Reply #3 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:11:31 pm »

Most decent Reds acknowledge and recognise Ged's achievements as Liverpool manager. There'll be a few blerts who still "don't forgive him for selling God" but that's just bitterness. He wasn't perfect by any means, as manager or character, and his cardiac episode and subsequent layoff took a lot away, but he's LFC family and will always be fondly remembered in my eyes.

mjjason · « **Reply #4 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:11:56 pm »

Not sure who looks at him as a failure. I have the highest respects for the man and the treble season was one of the best seasons for me. His strict discipline was needed when he came and he pulled the club up to become a more professionally run football outfit. He deserves great respect and appreciation for what he has done.

Though after his heart problems it was probably the right time for him to leave as he was exhausted.

SalifSaysShutIt · « **Reply #5 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:14:09 pm »

I agreed with the decision to let him go at the time, but still had great respect for him and will always remember the good times we had under him. Still remember listening to the commentary of the Worthington Cup final against United when Owen scored to win it.

Think he gave us a good solid footing for the Rafa years, and maybe took us as far as he could. Still, a very positive figure in LFC lore in my eyes.

jed the red · « **Reply #6 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:15:23 pm »

Yes I do, I always thought he was a thoroughly decent man. I spoke to him once when we played Port Vale in the cup. He made a point of coming over to talk to the fans before kick off, just speak to us, and he was really genuine.

I don't think we could doubt his love for the club, a true red if ever there was one.

As a manager you are right, he did make us believe again. The treble was historic, and will be remembered by us forever. Who can forget his smile when Gary Mac got the winner in injury time ( sorry, time added on for stoppages!

) at the pit? Or his return before the Roma game? He was hugely criticised for that from some quarters for trying to make it all about him, I thought he gave the fans and players an extra bit of lift for a hugely important night.

When he went it was the right time, he had taken us as far as he could and needed to step aside, and although he signed a lot of dross, a lot of that side went on to the glory of Istanbul. Despite his mistakes i will always have a place for him in my good memory bank.

Cochise · « **Reply #7 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:15:32 pm »

I respect Ged. He does seem a bit bitter about things that grate ya though, the Ginola thing (although that has nothing to do with us but it is annoying) and taking credit for Istanbul. Plus the Litmanen thing and opting for Diuof instead of Anelka. Never the less he should be respected for what he achieved.

djphal · « **Reply #8 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:15:41 pm »

Probably stayed too long, his last season was some of the worst football I have ever seen

Had some great times when he was manager though

Wingman · « **Reply #9 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:23:29 pm »

He apparently tried to take credit for Istanbul
He sold Robbie and didn't buy Anelka
He didn't use Jari Litmanen enough
He bought Traore, Smicer, Cheyrou, Diao & Diouf
Unlike the men on the banner, he never won the league or European Cup
The football we played from 2003 onwards was shocking

That's just about all the obvious ones that'll get trotted out.

Me, I'll always remember him for 2001

unusg · « **Reply #10 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:25:23 pm »

My old man had a similar condition and it took more than 6 months for him to recover. Watching ged move and his gaunt features at the Roma game suggested to me that he came back way too soon after his heart bypass op in 2002 and i think it affected his health and decision making thereafter.

Shame he seems to hold a grudge still with ginola and cant seem to let rafa take the credit for istanbul as my memories of him from 1999 to 2002 are very positive. Never forget how he always seemed to turn over the mancs in that period home and away.

LF · « **Reply #11 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:26:50 pm »

I love him

Sheik_Yerbouti · « **Reply #12 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:28:49 pm »

Some good times under him, 2001 was obviously fantastic. Never thought he had us moving towards the title or being contenders in the CL though. Felt he didnt adress a bunch of obvious problems in the side and i think his fotballing philosophy was wrong throughout his time at the club.

rossipersempre · « **Reply #13 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:29:51 pm »

Incidentally, I think the Ginola grudge thing has been put to bed now. Ginola tried to sue him recently and the claim was struck out. I think Ged will let it lie now - at long last - after having that satisfaction.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/ginola-loses-houllier-case-7619281.html

LF · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:30:32 pm »

Quote from: Pelts on May 23, 2012, 11:15:32 pm

the Ginola thing (although that has nothing to do with us but it is annoying)

no its not. ginola means nothing to me..only ones who make a big deal out of it are the ones who hate him anyway.

rossipersempre · « **Reply #15 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:34:29 pm »

"He still hasn't beaten you, Boss"

Repeating that also wasn't his finest hour.

Then again that same year, when we were being asset-stripped and bankruptcy loomed, I remember seeing him interviewed as Villa manager and he spoke very movingly about our plight, without being disrespectful to his current club.

Matt8Pie · « **Reply #16 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:34:43 pm »

Will always remember the treble season so well. It all went so quickly those final few weeks of that season, it was absolute madness.

Never had anything against Ged, his bitterness at Rafa winning the Champions League was a bit off but he's never been disrespectful to the club or fans and is still a Liverpool fan. He got us.

rednich85 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:42:42 pm »

He completely lost the plot all together, towards the end, didn't he?

Was sad to see. Some of his interviews toward the end bordered on dellusion.

Still laugh at his excuse for Fowlers celebration.

He modernised the club. Pulled us into the 21st century. For that, and his treble, I'll be eternally greatful of.

Crosby Nick · « **Reply #18 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:46:14 pm »

Quote from: Matt8Pie on May 23, 2012, 11:34:43 pm

Will always remember the treble season so well. It all went so quickly those final few weeks of that season, it was absolute madness.

Brilliant time! I was travelling in Australia at the time so didn't see as many games as I'd have liked. Plenty of early morning trips to Internet cafes and a horrible wait while the pages loaded up. I also saw us beat the Mancs in a cup final so for that I'm eternally grateful.

Sevo · « **Reply #19 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:48:10 pm »

Ged was just what we needed after the debacle of Souness and the liberal regime of Evans. He restored an ethos of hard work and pride in the Club. His downfall was his ill judged 2002 transfer dealings. He was a true Red and deserves his place in the pantheon of Liverpool managers. Having said that, his football near the end of his reign was pretty bad!

ALANM · « **Reply #20 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:51:15 pm »

I lost some respect for him when he tried to claim it was his team that won the CL in 2005. If his team was that good then they should have won it earlier. He also gatecrashed the celebrations that night in the dressing room.

Overall though, I do recognise what he achieved upto the summer of 2002, and we should never forget what he went through in that season. He brought discipline to a club which would have won the League under Roy Evans had he instilled it.

007.lankyguy · « **Reply #21 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:52:16 pm »

I think fans rated Rafa higher and the way Houllier disrespected him is probably why Houllier isn't talked about as much.
I still have a lot of love and respect for Houllier though, he was manager when I first became a Liverpool fan so I admire him a lot

rossipersempre · « **Reply #22 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:54:21 pm »

Quote from: ALANM on May 23, 2012, 11:51:15 pm

I lost some respect for him when he tried to claim it was his team that won the CL in 2005. If his team was that good then they should have won it earlier. He also gatecrashed the celebrations that night in the dressing room.

Wrong. Rafa invited him in out of goodwill.

kcbworth · « **Reply #23 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:54:40 pm »

I still have all the time in the world for Ged. Always find his thoughts interesting, and definitely has a special place in LFC history.

The 5th Benitle · « **Reply #24 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:56:31 pm »

If he had retired after his heart problems, he'd be loved hugely. Unfortunately his last couple of seasons saw him become quite delusional and seemingly bitter. It was horrible to see him trotting out 'But we had more corners' and similar things after a defeat.

Two huge mistakes in choosing Diouf over Anelka and taking Didi off for Vlad vs Leverkusen. Both after the heart issues of course.

I really wish he'd retired after the heart problems, I'd have much fonder memories of him.

Matt8Pie · « **Reply #25 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:56:35 pm »

Quote from: rossipersempre on May 23, 2012, 11:54:21 pm

Wrong. Rafa invited him in out of goodwill.

There's the answer to the question, eh?

The 5th Benitle · « **Reply #26 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:56:50 pm »

Quote from: rossipersempre on May 23, 2012, 11:54:21 pm

Wrong. Rafa invited him in out of goodwill.

Correct.

drpepe · « **Reply #27 on:** May 23, 2012, 11:58:58 pm »

it seemed like a return to the good times

as is often mooted - good football is winning football, not pretty football. and we won a lot under gh

Mutton Geoff · « **Reply #28 on:** May 24, 2012, 12:00:30 am »

Got a lot of time for GED why does it need to be one against another got time for all our manager except Bodgeson in the end, to be fair as well not his team but the Istanbul team had a lot of his signings!

AisoD · « **Reply #29 on:** May 24, 2012, 12:01:12 am »

All i remember about Houllier is defending him fiercely, blindly even in his last 2 years at Liverpool. Not even for a moment did i want him sacked, i wanted him to prove every critic wrong.

And then came the day when he was sacked (or mutually consented to leave). And all i remember was the huge sense of relief, and what felt like the weight of the world lifted off my shoulders. Subconsciously i wanted him sacked and hated him for the misery he inflicted in his final 2 years. I didn't realise that until after he was sacked. Human emotions, eh? no logic to them.

And from that day on i have felt nothing but dislike for him, compounded by his behaviour after we won the CL.

StevenLFC · « **Reply #30 on:** May 24, 2012, 12:02:34 am »

I don't think he's underrated, it's just that he didn't win us the league or European Cup, and therefore we remember those who did more fondly. However, he did get the club back to regularly fighting for trophies after pretty barren spells under Souness & Evans, so we should all be grateful for that.

ALANM · « **Reply #31 on:** May 24, 2012, 12:03:29 am »

Quote from: rossipersempre on May 23, 2012, 11:54:21 pm

Wrong. Rafa invited him in out of goodwill.

If that's the case then I accept it.

Gnurglan · « **Reply #32 on:** May 24, 2012, 12:05:04 am »

Have some great memories from his time as manager. I also have great respect for the trophies he won us, but I can't stand him.

He was a master at smoke and mirrors, a master at taking credit and shifting the attention and blame. Will never forget how it felt when I finally saw it. For me, those comments about Istanbul are typical of him. After all, he promised to win the PL and CL. But that was of course said to hide our worst run for 50 years. Another old favourite is his 1984 like sell of eternal progress. Or how he executed Babbel one day, only to hype FSP/ALT straight after. Why? To make us forget about missing the CL spot. But of course, it could all be coincidences... I just think it's very similar to that Greek guy who happened to see his own reflection in the water and couldn't stop looking.

That said, I do respect the success we had under him. It's always hard to win. Always. And we need to respect it and the joy we experienced. Dortmund was magic.

LF · « **Reply #33 on:** May 24, 2012, 12:07:53 am »

Quote from: Gnurglan on May 24, 2012, 12:05:04 am

Have some great memories from his time as manager. I also have great respect for the trophies he won us, but I can't stand him.

He was a master at smoke and mirrors, a master at taking credit and shifting the attention and blame. Will never forget how it felt when I finally saw it. For me, those comments about Istanbul are typical of him. After all, he promised to win the PL and CL. But that was of course said to hide our worst run for 50 years. Another old favourite is his 1984 like sell of eternal progress. Or how he executed Babbel one day, only to hype FSP/ALT straight after. Why? To make us forget about missing the CL spot. But of course, it could all be coincidences... I just think it's very similar to that Greek guy who happened to see his own reflection in the water and couldn't stop looking.

That said, I do respect the success we had under him. It's always hard to win. Always. And we need to respect it and the joy we experienced. Dortmund was magic.

right just what we need...another conspiracy theorist. believe the worst in people you dont like eh?

The 5th Benitle · « **Reply #34 on:** May 24, 2012, 12:09:47 am »

Quote from: LF on May 24, 2012, 12:07:53 am

right just what we need...another conspiracy theorist. believe the worst in people you dont like eh?

How is an opinion a conspiracy theory, may I respectfully ask?

LF · « **Reply #35 on:** May 24, 2012, 12:11:03 am »

Quote from: The 5th Benitle on May 24, 2012, 12:09:47 am

How is an opinion a conspiracy theory, may I respectfully ask?

he has said something like that before I think..

Sheik_Yerbouti · « **Reply #36 on:** May 24, 2012, 12:12:05 am »

Quote from: LF on May 24, 2012, 12:07:53 am

right just what we need...another conspiracy theorist. believe the worst in people you dont like eh?

It's true though. He always tried to shift focus from whatever the subject was he didnt like. Be it the team under performing, a failed signing, lack of progress, if he did that behind closed doors i have no idea, but he certainlyb fed the fans and the press with it. Ged did alot of good, but his reign should have ended long before it did.

rednich85 · « **Reply #37 on:** May 24, 2012, 12:14:35 am »

Quote from: geoffstrong on May 24, 2012, 12:00:30 am

to be fair as well not his team but the Istanbul team had a lot of his signings!

FUCK.ING.HELL

rednich85 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 24, 2012, 12:16:03 am »

Quote from: Sheik_Yerbouti on May 24, 2012, 12:12:05 am

He always tried to shift focus from whatever the subject was he didnt like.

I'm pretty sure that's 'dealing with the media 101'.

smicer07 · « **Reply #39 on:** May 24, 2012, 12:16:54 am »

Ged was fucking brilliant. I love him.