Author Topic: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe  (Read 336158 times)

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Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« on: February 3, 2011, 08:32:13 pm »
Don't know if poster earlier on.

Well worth a read, from Sid Lowe

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sid_lowe/02/03/fernando.torres/index.html

By the time Fernando Torres actually signed his contract with Chelsea, there were less than 15 minutes of the transfer window remaining. The clock was ticking and when he put pen to paper there was relief more than joy. His situation had reached a point of no return, he was in a corner, and yet the risk of having to return felt real. At times during deadline day on Jan. 31, Torres had doubted the deal would go through. But a tense and difficult day -- a tense and difficult few months -- finally ended well for Torres. He got what he wanted.

Well, sort of. This was not the way that the Spaniard had pictured it, nor the way he planned it. He didn't want to leave this way. Under different circumstances, he would have preferred not to leave at all. But the circumstances were what they were. They were not good. Liverpool were not what he thought Liverpool should be and he was not prepared to wait for them to be once more. That, in a nutshell, is why he wanted to depart Anfield. In the end the desire simply to leave -- and leave as soon as possible -- overshadowed all else.

Monday was a day of helicopters, tears and arguments, with obstacles to overcome. With each hurdle cleared, the finishing line drew nearer. The first and most significant, the price. Then there was the wait while Liverpool sought a replacement. Few were happier that Andy Carroll was joining Liverpool than the man whose No. 9 shirt he would take. Then there were negotiations over Sunday's clash -- Liverpool didn't want Torres playing for Chelsea against them. Legally, that was impossible but Liverpool sought an informal agreement. That was the one concession they did not get.
If Torres was in any doubt as to the way Liverpool fans will receive him on Sunday, confirmation came with the images breathlessly beamed live by Sky Sports News and reproduced in newspapers everywhere. There they were burning his shirt, flames flickering around that No. 9.

The burning of a shirt is perhaps the ultimate in mob cliché, a powerful image gleefully seized upon by hungry cameras. You almost imagine the man behind the camera handing over a bottle of petrol, a box of matches and the shirt. And the chance to be on telly. A smile and a: how about it, lads? It is also an image that is more powerful, more symbolic than it's real significance -- it only takes a couple of people, after all, yet it speaks for thousands.

While the image was manipulated, the anger and the hurt was genuine enough. And when Fernando Torres ill-advisedly used the phrase "big club" upon his arrival at Stamford Bridge, Liverpool supporters could hardly have been more annoyed, their pride pricked. Not least because they had elevated him to the status of a hero. It is always the ones you love that hurt you the most. Despite being disabused of the idea daily, despite players kissing the badge and declaring undying love only to move on, football fans want to believe that players are as loyal as they are. With few exceptions, that's impossible. It is also hard to take.

And yet with that phrase, Torres had actually uttered words of truth. His truth, for sure, but a truth. This move was not about money or betrayal. In fact, Torres himself felt betrayed. Wrongly, perhaps, but the sense of letdown was real. The frustration and anger had eaten at him for ages. Paradise was not what it first appeared. He has got the move he wanted but he feels that he has lost the propaganda battle. He has certainly come out of this as the bad guy.

For Torres, this move was about ambition and desperation. It was about Chelsea being, in his words, a "big club" -- and a big club right now. It was about Liverpool not being one. Not any more. And maybe not in the foreseeable future. It was about Torres's fear that his career could slip away from him. And indeed, if Liverpool do emerge stronger now, bolstered by the arrivals of Luis Suárez and Carroll, it might be Torres' departure that made that possible.

Torres knows that his connection with the Chelsea fans will not be what it with Liverpool. Anfield had a greater impact upon him than he could ever have imagined and vice versa; he was handed the kind of welcome he could only dream of.

As his brother admitted this week, in that sense, Chelsea is different. He did not say "not as good" but he might as well have done. Torres knows that. He is not lying when he says he watched videos about Liverpool's history or when he notes a connection between them and his boyhood team, Atlético Madrid. When he dedicated his autobiography to "the best fans in the world," it was not entirely an act of cynicism -- even if it looks like it now.

But from Torres' point of view, the bottom line is very simple: Liverpool are not the club that he joined. And he is not the player. He is no longer a potential star of 23 years; he is a World Cup winner soon to turn 27. That is in part down to Liverpool but he thinks he deserves better; Liverpool fans think they do too.
When Torres signed, he was a hugely talented striker but one about whom there were significant doubts. Liverpool had just reached a second Champions League final in three years. And with Torres in the side, they would finish fourth and reach the Champions League semifinal. The following season they finished second in the league -- closer to the title than they had been in almost 20 years. Then it started to go horribly wrong.

In December 2009, Torres was already warning that the club needed significant investment. "This year should have been a turning point for us. Manchester United sold Carlos Tevez and Cristiano Ronaldo, while Chelsea didn't sign anyone. We finished second last season; this season was a chance for us to do something great. But we have reached December and we're out of the Champions League, out the Carling Cup and out of the league. We have virtually no chance of winning the title now," he told the English magazine FourFourTwo.
"It's frustrating. It's now the owners' turn: they have to sign players so that this does not happen again. If we want to compete with United and Chelsea we need a much, much more complete squad, we need more genuinely first class players and we can't let our best players leave."

But they did leave. That warning went unheeded. The financial reality did not allow for investment. Liverpool had slipped out of contention and into debt. Spending on the squad reduced rapidly. They no longer had a Champions League place and the pessimism, even resignation, took hold. Xabi Alonso had gone. Javier Mascherano had too. Manager Rafa Benítez had gone. Some relationships had soured; in many eyes within the squad, Jaime Carragher went from inspirational defender to problem player. Captain Steven Gerrard was frustrated and injured. Even Torres had suffered an injury -- an injury whose handling had also caused a degree of friction. There was massive uncertainty, battles between manager and board, fans up in arms. The club would ultimately slip into a court battle over ownership.

By this summer, the situation was the opposite of what it had been when Torres signed. He had proved himself one of the best strikers in the world. Put bluntly, the kind of player that Chelsea thought was worth £50 million ($80M). The kind of player that should not have been playing in the Europa League. In his mind, his own culpability for that was not an issue. He had won a European Championship, scoring the winner in the final, and a World Cup (although that was tempered slightly by his limited role in South Africa). Liverpool hadn't won anything. The second best side in Europe he'd joined were no more.

Bluntly, they weren't very good. Even more bluntly, they weren't good enough for Torres. When he joined Liverpool, he looked up at the Anfield club. Now, he looked down at it and wondered what had happened. Yes, he had embraced the club, its history, its fans, its culture, but he wanted to win. Desperately. He was 26 (he will be 27 in March) and he had won nothing as a club player. Time was running away from him. He could not see how he would win anything with Liverpool.

Already in the summer, there had been two bids for Torres. One from Chelsea and one from Manchester City. The striker was told that he could not leave. Liverpool were in a sales process and they could not lose their key assets. There were also bids for Pepe Reina and Steven Gerrard. They, too, were told that they could not depart. Torres was told that if things did not improve, he would be allowed to go; that in return for waiting a future departure would be facilitated, if necessary. But that assurance came from Chief Executive Christian Purslow -- who no longer has that role with the club. There was no written agreement.

When the sale of the club went through at the High Court in the autumn, there was hope. There was a renewed sense of collectiveness about the club but some of the players did not necessarily share that. There was also frustration, originally sparked by the utter failure of the previous owners and still simmering. And those new hopes threatened to go unfulfilled. Under Roy Hodgson, a manager whose decisions Torres and other players could not understand, things were getting even worse on the pitch. Off the pitch, Liverpool's new owners were moving slowly. Sensibly, you might say.

But for a player who wanted more, already frustrated and irritable, already watching time slip away, it was not enough. Torres could see no reason to say and no one was trying to convince him to do so. Hodgson's sacking was not enough either. Where, Torres asked himself, was the investment? His perspective became strikingly short-term, there was no patience: what, he asked, am I going to be doing for the rest of this season? Fighting off relegation? That's not what I signed up for.

Chelsea's bid arrived late in the winter transfer window. The fact that Torres asked for Liverpool to negotiate and did so late, thus making securing an alternative harder still, is one of the reasons why supporters have been so angry with him. But the timing was not really down to Torres -- and while the transfer request ultimately was, even that is not so clear cut as it appears.

The reason it all happened so late was simple: Chelsea feared that Manchester City would become involved and prompt an auction. It waited until City had signed Edin Dzeko, satisfying their striking needs, before making the bid. When Chelsea did, Liverpool told Torres. It would be naive to assume that Torres had no idea at all that there was a bid coming, that there had been sounding out whatsoever, no inkling of what was being cooked up. But he could not control it. Liverpool, for its part, could have turned it down flat and carried on regardless. Instead, it told the striker about the bid. To which he said: "OK, well let's negotiate, then."

Instead, Liverpool went public -- and it was Liverpool, not Torres or Chelsea, who went public -- to say that they had turned the offer down. In doing so, they forced Torres's hand. And rather than frightening Chelsea away for good, they also forced the price up.

Torres was not sure he would get another chance to move to a club as competitive as Chelsea. He had not initially anticipated the bid this winter. Now he was being presented with an opportunity. If he turned it down, he feared being trapped. Would that train pass through the station again? If he waited until the summer and there still wasn't any optimism at Liverpool, if he had endured a mediocre season, would anyone come in for him then? Would he be stuck? Between a Champions League campaign or a relegation battle, the choice was obvious -- if shortsighted. If Alonso and Mascherano had gone, why shouldn't he?

Torres had hoped for a negotiated departure. He had no interest in forcing an exit that brought flames to his shirt. Alonso remains popular. Going to Chelsea made that impossible for Torres but he hoped to be tolerated and understood.

Liverpool's owners, on the other hand, saw no reason why they should allow him to leave as a victim. A sale might not be a bad idea -- but on their terms. They were sensitive to the reaction of fans. They needed it to be clear that it was the players' fault, that they had had little choice but to sell, even if they wanted to. They would have preferred to keep him, for sure, but this was not a bad option. By revealing that there was a chance to leave and then taking it away, they flushed him out. They forced him to make the next, potentially damaging move.

That, certainly, was Torres' perception. He felt promises had been broken about investment and that there was little reason for optimism. There was just inertia. He felt that Liverpool should have convinced him to stay, enthused him with their plans. But they never did. Luis Suárez's arrival was viewed from the outside as a exactly that, as a gesture -- a symbol of the club's ambition. A way of convincing him. But it didn't: it was viewed by Torres merely as confirmation that they club were already counting on the money from his sale. That, in fact, given that he no longer appeared committed to the club, they didn't mind the idea of him moving on.

Make no mistake, Torres wanted that sale too and there was only one way to make it happen. He handed in a transfer request. The cards were on the table.
Ultimately, Torres got what he wanted: a move to Chelsea. But so did Liverpool's owners: they sold an unhappy player, raised £50 million in return, and had themselves a bad guy. They acted quickly and effectively to replace him, reinforcing their status in the eyes of the supporters. For just £8 million ($13M), they looked bold and ambitious where before it had been precisely the apparent lack of ambition and decisiveness -- or, perhaps more accurately, economic capability -- that hastened their demise. There were no U.S. flags burning this time as there had been under Gillet and Hicks -- the real villains in Liverpool's recent history. Instead, there was a Torres shirt.

Fernando Torres, Liverpool's No. 9. Now Chelsea's. It doesn't really have the same ring to it. He had become such an idol; now he is a fallen one, loathed where once he was loved. In the end, everyone was happy. But deep down, no one was.
« Last Edit: February 4, 2011, 01:18:14 am by Veinticinco de Mayo »
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #1 on: February 4, 2011, 12:26:33 am »
Thought it deserved a thread of its own.  I await the kneejerk namecalling, but Sid Lowe is probably the best writer on Spanish football so this is likely to be pretty well researched and if you are interested in the real reasons that a dream went sour then it is worth reading.

And before you all ask, I do think, and hope, that he will soon realise that he has made a huge mistake and that he should have waited...  but then if some shortarse prick hadn't appointed Roy Dumblewit in the summer then perhaps that would not have been necessary.
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #2 on: February 4, 2011, 12:43:09 am »
Does Lowe tell us anything we don't already know? it's just a well written article summing up of the Torres deal from the perspective of the Torres camp.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #3 on: February 4, 2011, 12:44:43 am »
Does Lowe tell us anything we don't already know? it's just a well written article summing up of the Torres deal from the perspective of the Torres camp.

So that's a perspective we have not had before. No?
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #4 on: February 4, 2011, 12:47:29 am »
Thought it deserved a thread of its own.  I await the kneejerk namecalling, but Sid Lowe is probably the best writer on Spanish football so this is likely to be pretty well researched and if you are interested in the real reasons that a dream went sour then it is worth reading.

And before you all ask, I do think, and hope, that he will soon realise that he has made a huge mistake and that he should have waited...  but then if some shortarse prick hadn't appointed Roy Dumblewit in the summer then perhaps that would not have been necessary.

Very good article i thought until I reached the paragraphs below which are pure conjecture and  the bit i've bolded is pure horseshit imo.

Chelsea's bid arrived late in the winter transfer window. The fact that Torres asked for Liverpool to negotiate and did so late, thus making securing an alternative harder still, is one of the reasons why supporters have been so angry with him. But the timing was not really down to Torres -- and while the transfer request ultimately was, even that is not so clear cut as it appears.

The reason it all happened so late was simple: Chelsea feared that Manchester City would become involved and prompt an auction. It waited until City had signed Edin Dzeko, satisfying their striking needs, before making the bid. When Chelsea did, Liverpool told Torres. It would be naive to assume that Torres had no idea at all that there was a bid coming, that there had been sounding out whatsoever, no inkling of what was being cooked up. But he could not control it. Liverpool, for its part, could have turned it down flat and carried on regardless. Instead, it told the striker about the bid. To which he said: "OK, well let's negotiate, then."

Instead, Liverpool went public -- and it was Liverpool, not Torres or Chelsea, who went public -- to say that they had turned the offer down. In doing so, they forced Torres's hand.
And rather than frightening Chelsea away for good, they also forced the price up.

Torres was not sure he would get another chance to move to a club as competitive as Chelsea. He had not initially anticipated the bid this winter. Now he was being presented with an opportunity. If he turned it down, he feared being trapped. Would that train pass through the station again? If he waited until the summer and there still wasn't any optimism at Liverpool, if he had endured a mediocre season, would anyone come in for him then? Would he be stuck? Between a Champions League campaign or a relegation battle, the choice was obvious -- if shortsighted. If Alonso and Mascherano had gone, why shouldn't he?

Torres had hoped for a negotiated departure. He had no interest in forcing an exit that brought flames to his shirt. Alonso remains popular. Going to Chelsea made that impossible for Torres but he hoped to be tolerated and understood.

Liverpool's owners, on the other hand, saw no reason why they should allow him to leave as a victim. A sale might not be a bad idea -- but on their terms. They were sensitive to the reaction of fans. They needed it to be clear that it was the players' fault, that they had had little choice but to sell, even if they wanted to. They would have preferred to keep him, for sure, but this was not a bad option. By revealing that there was a chance to leave and then taking it away, they flushed him out. They forced him to make the next, potentially damaging move.

That, certainly, was Torres' perception. He felt promises had been broken about investment and that there was little reason for optimism. There was just inertia. He felt that Liverpool should have convinced him to stay, enthused him with their plans. But they never did. Luis Suárez's arrival was viewed from the outside as a exactly that, as a gesture -- a symbol of the club's ambition. A way of convincing him. But it didn't: it was viewed by Torres merely as confirmation that they club were already counting on the money from his sale. That, in fact, given that he no longer appeared committed to the club, they didn't mind the idea of him moving on.

Make no mistake, Torres wanted that sale too and there was only one way to make it happen. He handed in a transfer request. The cards were on the table.
Ultimately, Torres got what he wanted: a move to Chelsea. But so did Liverpool's owners: they sold an unhappy player, raised £50 million in return, and had themselves a bad guy. They acted quickly and effectively to replace him, reinforcing their status in the eyes of the supporters. For just £8 million ($13M), they looked bold and ambitious where before it had been precisely the apparent lack of ambition and decisiveness -- or, perhaps more accurately, economic capability -- that hastened their demise. There were no U.S. flags burning this time as there had been under Gillet and Hicks -- the real villains in Liverpool's recent history. Instead, there was a Torres shirt.

Fernando Torres, Liverpool's No. 9. Now Chelsea's. It doesn't really have the same ring to it. He had become such an idol; now he is a fallen one, loathed where once he was loved. In the end, everyone was happy. But deep down, no one was.
« Last Edit: February 4, 2011, 12:52:32 am by DangerScouse »

Offline RJH

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #5 on: February 4, 2011, 12:54:13 am »
Quote
The reason it all happened so late was simple: Chelsea feared that Manchester City would become involved and prompt an auction. It waited until City had signed Edin Dzeko, satisfying their striking needs, before making the bid.

That doesn't make sense to me. The Dzeko transfer was wrapped up by 7th January.
If they were waiting for City to sign Dzeko, why did nothing happen for 3 weeks after that?

And why did Torres view Suarez as his replacement, when Liverpool had been in negotations to buy him him for more than a week before the Chelsea bid? Either all parties had resigned themselves to Torres' departure long before the public announcements started, or Torres is simply using it as an excuse.


As far as convincing him to stay goes, Liverpool seem to have spent most of his time at the club doing that. How much effort are they supposed to put in on a player who clearly didn't want to be here? He put in a transfer request. That isn't a concerned player wanting reassurances, that's a player already halfway out the door.


Quote
Now he was being presented with an opportunity. If he turned it down, he feared being trapped.

This bit just made me think of Owen's transfer to Newcastle.


« Last Edit: February 4, 2011, 12:55:54 am by RJH »

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #6 on: February 4, 2011, 12:56:07 am »
What Torres and his advisors have failed to count is how much more marketable LFC is than Chelsea across the globe. His brand will be affected by having fewer club fans.

Bigger club my hole.
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #7 on: February 4, 2011, 12:56:44 am »
Good read, enjoyed that. Just shows what the media like to pick up on.

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #8 on: February 4, 2011, 12:58:05 am »
Very interesting and well written. Certainly FSG have appeared to have played a blinder. Wouldn't want to play poker against those guys.
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #9 on: February 4, 2011, 12:58:25 am »
Shouldn't this be in the General Football and Sport forum.

Who cares what the rentboy or his people say.
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #10 on: February 4, 2011, 12:58:30 am »
What Torres and his advisors have failed to count is how much more marketable LFC is than Chelsea across the globe. His brand will be affected by having fewer club fans.

Bigger club my hole.

that will be extremely easy to guage as currently 'Torres' is the most popular name on the back of a shirt in the country.

wonder if that'll alter now?

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #11 on: February 4, 2011, 12:59:31 am »
Do you know what that isn't far wrong is it?? We are fighting to get top 4 again after all. The title is miles off, I reckon maybe King Kenny thought Nando's attitude stank and thought fuck him?? Said call his bluff make the bid public....
Anyway meh.....

King Kenny = LEGEND

Torres = Rent Boy

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #12 on: February 4, 2011, 01:01:03 am »
Good, well written article. I've come to some of the same conclusions about Torres' state of mind in some of the earlier threads; notably, he's clearly become deeply unhappy, fears his career is on the wane (as well as perhaps his physical assets) and has acted out of desperation, not malice. As I said before, I can't wish him luck at Chelsea, but I do hope he finds a place where he can be happy playing football at some point. Otherwise I fear he could be broken down and retired by the age of 30.
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #13 on: February 4, 2011, 01:02:17 am »
So that's a perspective we have not had before. No?
Liverpool weren't matching his ambitions. That's why he left. Liverpool didn't want to keep a player who wanted to leave. Isn't that the message Lowe is trying to convey in 1000+ words?

There's no new info/perspective contained in that article that hasn't been mentioned in any other article, other than at the end of the article where he ridiculously tries to imply that Liverpool manipulated events to make Torres look the bad guy.

All in all, an excellent article that goes someway in making up for the damage done to Brand Fernando Torres this week.

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #14 on: February 4, 2011, 01:05:05 am »
Good, well written article. I've come to some of the same conclusions about Torres' state of mind in some of the earlier threads; notably, he's clearly become deeply unhappy, fears his career is on the wane (as well as perhaps his physical assets) and has acted out of desperation, not malice. As I said before, I can't wish him luck at Chelsea, but I do hope he finds a place where he can be happy playing football at some point. Otherwise I fear he could be broken down and retired by the age of 30.
Would the doctors at Melwood not have noticed that Torres' mental state wasn't right?

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #15 on: February 4, 2011, 01:05:19 am »
Some stuff in there seems true but dont try to paint him as some innocent in it all.

Didnt know if he would get the chance to go to a club like chelsea again ? Bullshit, im sorry but its clear had he not gone in jan teams would have been interested in the summer. Cant try to make it look asif he was just scared of being 'trapped', he wasnt, he was fucking selfish.

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #16 on: February 4, 2011, 01:05:35 am »
It's a good read, he obviously left for his own personal motives, but he's gone now. Just let it go.

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #17 on: February 4, 2011, 01:06:31 am »
Sid Lowe making sense as usual.  I think it was him besides Ballague who first got the news out that Torres to Chelsea was pretty much a done deal while a lot of people were still very skeptical and gave them a lot of abuse on twitter.  They later turned out to be spot on so I'm sure he's well sourced on the matter.  And pretty much they and other journos were of the belief that all parties were keen on this deal going through, despite the widespread notion to the contrary on here.

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #18 on: February 4, 2011, 01:06:42 am »
Shouldn't this be in the General Football and Sport forum.

Who cares what the rentboy or his people say.

The article is about the reasons Fernando Torres left Liverpool FC.  If you cannot see why that belongs in the Liverpool FC forum then I think you've got issues mate.

Clearly anything about what he hopes to achieve at Chelsea I don't give a shit about, but what happened at Anfield... errr... yeah.
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #19 on: February 4, 2011, 01:07:04 am »

Can I just say, I really hope that if he scores on Sunday he goes crazy, runs right up to the travelling Kop fists pumping, eyes bulging, and kisses the Chelsea badge.

That would make it easier for lots of people to move on. Just as he has. Don't be late about it.


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Offline Raoul Duke

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #20 on: February 4, 2011, 01:07:22 am »
Luis Suárez's arrival was viewed from the outside as a exactly that, as a gesture -- a symbol of the club's ambition. A way of convincing him. But it didn't: it was viewed by Torres merely as confirmation that they club were already counting on the money from his sale. That, in fact, given that he no longer appeared committed to the club, they didn't mind the idea of him moving on.

I don't understand this.

He wants investment, then when we get it he is convinced it is being funded by his sale.

Makes no sense.
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #21 on: February 4, 2011, 01:10:53 am »
That Sid Lowe article, while constructed well, is trying to create a defence of Torres where there is none.


I should have stopped reading at the part about us not being a big club anymore as the rest was merely trying to justify something by adding a personal opinion of what happened, when it comes down to being much simpler than that.

Torres made himself the bad guy here, nobody else. The club had to tell him about the Chelsea bid as far as I know, it's the players right to know if there are bids for his services.


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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #22 on: February 4, 2011, 01:12:52 am »
Torres made himself the bad guy here, nobody else. The club had to tell him about the Chelsea bid as far as I know, it's the players right to know if there are bids for his services.

Where in the rules does it say that mate?  I thought that was the whole reason tapping up was "supposedly" outlawed. Officially a club has to ask the club that owns the players registration for permission to talk to that player.  Liverpool could have just said no. 

That doesn't mean that I agree with Lowe's thesis that LFC deliberately told him because they wanted to sell.  That's just a statement of the rules as I understand them.
« Last Edit: February 4, 2011, 01:16:27 am by Veinticinco de Mayo »
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Offline kacangpool

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #23 on: February 4, 2011, 01:14:08 am »
a very well written piece.

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #24 on: February 4, 2011, 01:14:15 am »
There's no new info/perspective contained in that article that hasn't been mentioned in any other article, other than at the end of the article where he ridiculously tries to imply that Liverpool manipulated events to make Torres look the bad guy.

I don't think that section was either ridiculous, or suggested manipulation. Back on Friday when people were asking why we had made the bid and the transfer request public (when Torres' request to 'negotiate' had already been made public - oh, by Sid Lowe and Guillem Ballague), I was of the opinion that that was certainly so that, if it did come to a head and the player moved, the club were ensuring that it was seen as his decision. It would also be logical to think that the owners and the management were aware that Torres certainly wasn't happy and that this course of events might have some merit; at the right price. But they not only made sure Torres was seen to make the decision, they did infact let him do so. The club didn't act cynically, but it did consider it's approach and ensure it could benefit from the situation.

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #25 on: February 4, 2011, 01:15:30 am »
He'd still be able to go to another club competing for honours in the summer, if he really wanted to leave. 
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #26 on: February 4, 2011, 01:15:53 am »
Well written article if slightly skewed in Torre's favour. Can understand that he feels let down, can understand that he's desperate to win things at club level as he's coming up to 27, but its wrong to say that he didn't force a move. If it wasn't for Istanbul, Gerrard would have gone to Chelsea is 2005. And the end of the day it was primarily G&H and Hogdson who ultimately damaged the club.

Water under the bridge now as far as I'm concerned. Onwards and upwards under Dalglish, Clarke, Suarez, Carroll et al.
« Last Edit: February 4, 2011, 01:19:40 am by Elysian Fields »

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #27 on: February 4, 2011, 01:16:09 am »
the torres propaganda machine in full effect.
that article is full of cheesy cliches

"what, he asked, am I going to be doing for the rest of this season? Fighting off relegation? That's not what I signed up for"

but you did fernando, with the utter devotion an love us liverpool fans gave you,
you shouldve still treated us with respect, no matter what league we were in!

p.s fernando thanks for the goals that won us nothing! you'll never be bigger than liverpool f.c no matter how big your commercial department

Offline AnotherSpanishfan

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #28 on: February 4, 2011, 01:17:50 am »
I don't understand this.

He wants investment, then when we get it he is convinced it is being funded by his sale.

Makes no sense.

I think what Sid is getting at is that he wants to compete now.  The Suarez signing was only one signing in his eyes so he probably felt that things weren't moving fast enough for him.  No CL this season and looking difficult for a 4th place finish this season (granted, still not out of the question).  That would potentially make it 2 years with no CL football.  He'll be 27 in March, 28 next March, so he'd have to wait til he's 28/29 to play in the CL again.  That's given the club is heading in the right direction and can overtake  two of the Mancs, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs for next season.  Chelsea can't guarantee anything either (except CL this season and a better chance of top 4 at the moment)but the signings of Luiz and Torres show some intent on the part of Chelsea as well.  So, that's probably the way he sees it.  Personally, I hope he's wrong but he's hardly delusional.

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #29 on: February 4, 2011, 01:18:40 am »
Do you know what that isn't far wrong is it?? We are fighting to get top 4 again after all. The title is miles off, I reckon maybe King Kenny thought Nando's attitude stank and thought fuck him?? Said call his bluff make the bid public....
Anyway meh.....

King Kenny = LEGEND

Torres = Rent Boy

:-)

would not be suprised at all! you dont have a career like the king has had without being able to smell a few bad eggs along the way

Offline 51cam

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #30 on: February 4, 2011, 01:19:03 am »
Good article. Excellently written. Really enjoyed it. Cheers for posting!

There are a few interesting points there but, not for the first time this week I've read about the shirt burning and I cant help but feel embarrassed. The 'fans' involved with this really let the club down.  :-[

After a few days of feeling betrayed, I now find myself full of confidence! We needed something dramatic, along with appointment of Kenny to get fully in gear. I look at Fernando's departure as positive because the arrival of two young and hungry (pardon the pun) strikers, is better than one unhappy sulky striker who was gonna leave in the Summer either way. I obviously echo the sentiment that his departure was ill timed and for that I'm disappointed but karma's a bitch and just like with Owen I'm definite it will come back to haunt him.

Offline redmark

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #31 on: February 4, 2011, 01:19:12 am »
Would the doctors at Melwood not have noticed that Torres' mental state wasn't right?

Maybe, maybe not. Torres has always been somewhat introverted anyway, hasn't he, therefore no sudden withdrawn behaviour to ring alarm bells? How does a doctor know for certain the difference between frustration at poor results and and working under a poor manager, versus something more serious approaching a real 'breakdown'? Even if they did suspect problems, how exactly does a club doctor suggest to a world superstar player that he seems to be becoming unstable? Or, more cynically, perhaps they did notice - and perhaps that's why Liverpool were willing/happy to get £50m for a player on the verge of a breakdown?
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #32 on: February 4, 2011, 01:20:20 am »
There's no new info/perspective contained in that article that hasn't been mentioned in any other article, other than at the end of the article where he ridiculously tries to imply that Liverpool manipulated events to make Torres look the bad guy.

exactly that.

the article is based on observation and much would be general consensus than well researched information. it is a very well written article that will save torres some face i guess.

the transfer window was odd, im still puzzled by not signing adam, though i think time had run out as allour energies were rightly diverted into getting carroll.

i hope torres comes out with the his side of the story sometime, im sure he loved the club and became disalussioned but i dont get why he jumped now ..or was he really pushed. 50m is a lot but i think we could have squeezed much the same around summertime. rent boys aint winning no leauge this year and i cant see em getting the CL either, so why move now?
- all in my opinion of course -

Offline subroc

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #33 on: February 4, 2011, 01:20:28 am »
Sid Lowe is a good journalist, but that article sounds like it was written based on a PR pack given by Torres' representatives to try to save their client from the fans' opprobium.

IMHO it is more likelr that the transfer bid was launched by Chelsea in a coordinated manner with Torres' advisors. If FSG really wanted to sell Torres in the window, there is no way that FSG would have so poorly structured their deal so as to finance the Suarez bid with the Torres sale and then to wait till the close of the window to bring the latter to pass. FSG was intending to bring in Suarez to strengthen the squad but was instead caught by surprise by Chelsea's bid and then by Torres immediate transfer request. I reckon that the economics of the deal in the light of the UEFA rules that were incoming made it more lilkely that if the cliub intended to sell him, they would have wanted to do so in the summer. However Torres' determination to leave forced them to source for a replacement at extremely short notice - thus shown by the increasingly desperate bidding for Carroll whom Dalglish would have probably preferred to watch for another half a season to ensure that he is not a flash in the pan.



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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #34 on: February 4, 2011, 01:20:55 am »
Maybe, maybe not. Torres has always been somewhat introverted anyway, hasn't he,

i always took it more for a quiet arrogance

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid LoweConfirmed rentboy
« Reply #35 on: February 4, 2011, 01:20:57 am »
I don't understand this.

He wants investment, then when we get it he is convinced it is being funded by his sale.

Makes no sense.

delusional rationalization.

we've been after suarez since sometime near the beginning of the transfer window, if torres' bid was only known in the last week or so...the timelines don't add up. at least the timelines provided by ze torres camp.

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #36 on: February 4, 2011, 01:23:55 am »
Yeah, I think the Dzeko thing is a red herring.  However I do think that Lowe is right in that Chelsea did leave the bid until late in the window to increase the chances that they would have a "free run" at signing him without some other team getting involved.  Which also suggests that they were given the nod that Torres would be interested by someone in the Torres camp. 
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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #37 on: February 4, 2011, 01:24:58 am »
I'm not sure why we're speculating on his mental state all of a sudden. It's not very nice.

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #38 on: February 4, 2011, 01:25:47 am »
i do believe though he's already regretting his decision, i seen him at the 1st training session,thinking kalou theirs best youth prospect and he's 37, what the feck have i done!

Offline redmark

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Re: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe
« Reply #39 on: February 4, 2011, 01:26:19 am »
Yeah, I think the Dzeko thing is a red herring.  However I do think that Lowe is right in that Chelsea did leave the bid until late in the window to increase the chances that they would have a "free run" at signing him without some other team getting involved.  Which also suggests that they were given the nod that Torres would be interested by someone in the Torres camp. 

I think it was the Telegraph (but not Rory Smith) that had some quite specific detail on a meeting taking place between Chelsea and the Torres' camp several days before the bids; and the suggestion that the meeting was initiated by the Torres camp.
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