Topic: DC Mega Topic, it's not the MCU

[Barefoot Doctor]

Spoiler

Not finished it yet but there's some really, really weird shit in here. Superman's dying screams reverberating around the world? Flash creepily eye fucking Iris during a car crash while hot dogs fly through the air?

[close]

[redan]

I actually really loved this film and now have a craving for more Snyderverse. It was always brave to put a director as polarising as Snyder in charge of some of the most iconic fictional characters ever so understand why WB got cold feet but as a fan of all 3 of his DC films, I just don’t want the teases this film sets up to be wasted.

Completely get it won’t be for everyone but for me it was excellent

[Raaphael]

It`s great.

[Red Beret]

Just finished watching it.  Not sure I could have sat in a cinema for it, but watching it in two big chunks over two nights and it certainly didn't feel like four hours. 

I really liked it.  I think it helped that I wasn't prejudiced by the theatrical version, so the whole thing was pretty much a clean slate for me, with only a few of the better known scenes in my head.

Seemed much more cohesive than Batman V Superman, but the ending clearly had to set a few things up that couldn't really be slipped into the movie in a more convenient place, so elements of it have a tacked on feeling.  Still, a very good watch.  Can't remember the last time something held my attention so well.

[Rush 82]

Solid watch this - fixed the abomination released in 2017.

4 hours flew by

[RedSince86]

Just finished 2 hours of it, will watch the rest of it tomorrow night, really transfixed and enjoyed it so far.

Really warming to Affleck actually being a fantastic Batman, shame he won't be doing anymore, i think he's the only Batman actor who's pulled of both roles with ease of Wayne and Batman.

I should clarify i never watched the prior version.

[red_Mark1980]

Just finished 2 hours of it, will watch the rest of it tomorrow night, really transfixed and enjoyed it so far.

Really warming to Affleck actually being a fantastic Batman, shame he won't be doing anymore, i think he's the only Batman actor who's pulled of both roles with ease of Wayne and Batman.

I should clarify i never watched the prior version.

Same. I was sure I had. But in hindsight. I have a feeling I started watching it on a flight to/from Vegas and didn't get very far.

I'd be interested in watching the original film to see the difference.

I think it would have made sense to cut it into two films. There's a sensible cut point too. Would have been a great ending

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Same. I was sure I had. But in hindsight. I have a feeling I started watching it on a flight to/from Vegas and didn't get very far.

I'd be interested in watching the original film to see the difference.

I think it would have made sense to cut it into two films. There's a sensible cut point too. Would have been a great ending

Whoever made the decision to cut the original how they did needs sacking.

They had the chance to make an amazing trilogy starting with Darksides first attempt.

Massive balls up,it would've been up there with the last two Marvels if not better imo and I loved those.

[Skeeve]

At least as far as the synder cut, the reason why they haven't split it up is purely a financial one, they'd have had to renegotiate with the cast if it had become multiple movies or a mini-series.

[red_Mark1980]

At least as far as the synder cut, the reason why they haven't split it up is purely a financial one, they'd have had to renegotiate with the cast if it had become multiple movies or a mini-series.

Absolutely and I get that. But you could have totally seen this working.

I finished it this morning and it's really good. I've always leaned towards DC and despite it borrowing pretty heavy on the Avengers I preferred it. All that I would like to have seen a little more of Affleck in the actual Batsuit

[Red Beret]

There's been a lot of talk whether the Snyder Cut was originally intended to be two films, so maybe that was actually in the actors' contract from the beginning?  I guess there's no real way of knowing.

In other news, stumbled into this.  Spoiler warning, obviously.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/xD7eHzAtL5M" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/xD7eHzAtL5M</a>

Spoiler

was a shame to lose the original Batman and Superman themes, but not a devastating loss.

[close]

[WhereAngelsPlay]

There's been a lot of talk whether the Snyder Cut was originally intended to be two films, so maybe that was actually in the actors' contract from the beginning?  I guess there's no real way of knowing.

In other news, stumbled into this.  Spoiler warning, obviously.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/xD7eHzAtL5M" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/xD7eHzAtL5M</a>

Spoiler

was a shame to lose the original Batman and Superman themes, but not a devastating loss.

[close]

It was all set up for a second but thinking about it they could easily have made 4.

[Red Beret]

I just want to add that, if anything, this film says Snyder needs to find a way to tell his stories in a far more concise manner. 

There are several different versions of Watchmen; then you have the additional cut of Batman v Superman.  For a director who relies on the visual, you would think the film would be shorter; that said, I think 2001 has something like only 40 minutes of dialogue in a 2 hour movie, so what do I know?

But, basically, whilst additional versions should add depth and nuance, you should be able to drive the point of the story in your theatrical version.  Now I don't know if "Josstice League" did that, but this isn't Lord of the Rings, where you're constrained by the limits of a book.

[Schmidt]

I just want to add that, if anything, this film says Snyder needs to find a way to tell his stories in a far more concise manner. 

There are several different versions of Watchmen; then you have the additional cut of Batman v Superman.  For a director who relies on the visual, you would think the film would be shorter; that said, I think 2001 has something like only 40 minutes of dialogue in a 2 hour movie, so what do I know?

But, basically, whilst additional versions should add depth and nuance, you should be able to drive the point of the story in your theatrical version.  Now I don't know if "Josstice League" did that, but this isn't Lord of the Rings, where you're constrained by the limits of a book.

Doesn't the issue lie with Warner Bros dicking their directors around during post-production? Suicide Squad had the same problem, they made one type of movie and then GotG came out and WB decided they wanted that and made them reshoot a bunch of stuff at the last minute.

[Red Beret]

Doesn't the issue lie with Warner Bros dicking their directors around during post-production? Suicide Squad had the same problem, they made one type of movie and then GotG came out and WB decided they wanted that and made them reshoot a bunch of stuff at the last minute.

I don't know mate, I never saw suicide squad. All I can say it seems to be a consistent problem with the DCU rather than the MCU.  There's nothing wrong with extended cuts or director's cuts, but you gotta tell the nuts and bolts of the story within the cinematic cut - without leaving gaping holes.

If that's a studio issue, then yes, definitely, they need to take a look at it. But directors need to be working within reasonable constraints.  This isn't Lord of the Rings.

[Skeeve]

Doesn't the issue lie with Warner Bros dicking their directors around during post-production? Suicide Squad had the same problem, they made one type of movie and then GotG came out and WB decided they wanted that and made them reshoot a bunch of stuff at the last minute.

Weren't the claims that the reshoots were related to GotG or adding humour to the movie debunked at the time by the director himself?

In any case, many big movies have reshoots fairly late in the process when a director sees the edit has evolved slightly from what they originally shot, it only gets used as an indication of problems when movies still don't turn out right and gets overlooked when movies turn out fine.

One simple issue for the DC movies to fix would be realising that they are allowed a full range of colours and moods for their characters and not everything needs to be Batman, a lack of contrast diminishes all the characters including him.

[mallin9]

Random thoughts; Flash, and Cyborg especially.....why were they not in their own movies before a Justice League?  Those characters are interesting, and there could be a decent backstory there.   Nothing original in this thought, but man did DC balls this up from the beginning by seeming to be in such a rush to get to Justice League.

Wonder Woman music playing in every scene she’s in was annoying as hell.

Should’ve been better prepared for the overload of slo mo......but I went in knowing it was 4 hours. So that’s on me. Still, I think some of the action scenes would’ve been even more impressive if they’d played at a regular-ish speed.

Still a lot of scenes with different characters getting together to exposit to one another.  Ending felt...odd.   Like it ended a couple times.

That said, The baddies were infinitely more interesting, and there were a couple legit FUCK YEA moments. Fun in parts, Overly Snyder in parts. Just can’t shake the regret that this could’ve been a great 3 hour film if some more of the character development had been allowed to happen on screen in other movies....as opposed to email attachments in BvS and lumped in here.

Whoever approved the Whedon 2017 version should see a doctor

[Red Viper]

Don't think the first 5 minutes have ever summed up my thoughts on a film so well.

Time seemingly standing still and screams of "NOOOOOOOOOOOO" reverberating everywhere.

It's grim.

[AndyMuller]

I'm actually working my way through the DCEU starting with 'Man of Steel' last night. It is better than what I remembered from watching it when it first came out. Mad that Superman kills Zod though.

[jediwarrior]

I watched it Friday night and loved it. Of course its not perfect but I really enjoyed it and it left me wanting to see Snyder sequel to it.

I came in with low expectations having hated the original version of JL and also thinking Batman v Superman was a very poor movie as well. However while it will never win any awards it is a good Friday/Saturday night entertainment movie.

[Brian Blessed]

I'm looking forward to Zach Snyder's 300: 400.

[Red Beret]

I'm actually working my way through the DCEU starting with 'Man of Steel' last night. It is better than what I remembered from watching it when it first came out. Mad that Superman kills Zod though.

I always really liked Man of Steel. Batman v Superman was just a confused mess though.

[Zee_26]

Snyder's eye for splash pages on screen probably won't be bettered no matter who Marvel or DC get to helm their films. It's just a pity that the films tend to be disappointing as a cohesive piece, as there's always the germ of a good idea in there.

[Armand9]

to put this in personal context, all i remembered from the first film was the resurrection and the ending fight, and that i was meh about the whole thing, i literally remember fuck all else but know it came across as a clusterfuck mess for me

i liked this take, a lot, the 4 hours length was no problem for me (my fav flim of all time is good, bad and the ugly, so im good with long films as long as they're quality) and watched it in one go (which i'd recommend). as a whole it made sense to me, as did the fleshed out character lines, i think the first film didn't. comparing the two is like chalk and cheese of my enjoyment of the productions, as my above comments make clear.

in reference to the post a few up, i loved man of steel - by far my fav superman movie, i expected batman vs superman to be utter trash (cos just the idea of it is ridiculous to me), but it was better than i'd thought but as my expectation was so low i dont think that says much

i'm no DC guru tho from a kid always loved Batman as i date back to adam fucking west lol and the comics about at that time (not a fan of aflick but as least it's not clooney, dont get me started on that shit), so im no deepdive on this shit but as a movie buff and superhero fan in general i think snyder has done a great job compared to the original release which was pretty shite judging by my rather vauge impressions i've related above

oh, the one thing that grated on me was the music, score and incidental music was fine but the 'pop' songs that popped up here and there were poorly chosen (this aint no tarantino masterclass) and would have been better left out altogether, they actually took away from those scenes rather than adding to them

[[new username under construction]]

oh, the one thing that grated on me was the music, score and incidental music was fine but the 'pop' songs that popped up here and there were poorly chosen (this aint no tarantino masterclass) and would have been better left out altogether, they actually took away from those scenes rather than adding to them

That's what you get for letting Junkie XL do the score!

[[new username under construction]]

I can't make up my mind on the new Batman from the trailer, I'm starting to like Pattinson but don't know, kinda almost looks too real world and a little teenagerish (if that's a word) maybe I'm just used to an older Batman

[Armand9]

 i recently saw a trailer for the patterson batman (had no idea it was in existence) and im intrigued, i liked the feel of it

[John_P]

At least with the Pattinson Batman we can spend time spotting Liverpool in the exterior shots.

[Red Beret]

Random thoughts; Flash, and Cyborg especially.....why were they not in their own movies before a Justice League?  Those characters are interesting, and there could be a decent backstory there.   Nothing original in this thought, but man did DC balls this up from the beginning by seeming to be in such a rush to get to Justice League.

Wonder Woman music playing in every scene she’s in was annoying as hell.

Should’ve been better prepared for the overload of slo mo......but I went in knowing it was 4 hours. So that’s on me. Still, I think some of the action scenes would’ve been even more impressive if they’d played at a regular-ish speed.

Still a lot of scenes with different characters getting together to exposit to one another.  Ending felt...odd.   Like it ended a couple times.

That said, The baddies were infinitely more interesting, and there were a couple legit FUCK YEA moments. Fun in parts, Overly Snyder in parts. Just can’t shake the regret that this could’ve been a great 3 hour film if some more of the character development had been allowed to happen on screen in other movies....as opposed to email attachments in BvS and lumped in here.

Whoever approved the Whedon 2017 version should see a doctor

Yeah.  I thought this might have been because they didn't want to go down the Marvel route, but then that creates it's own set of problems - chiefly being able to introduce these characters in a movie where the audience needs to get to know them.

So you either end up with a messed up version of the film, like we got with Joss Whedon's, where all the characters' development is truncated, and they're just kinda there; or we get Snyder's vision - which does the characters justice but is completely unworkable as a theatrical release. In terms of a cinematic project it was doomed from the start.

I guess that, unlike the MCU, characters like Cyborg, Aquaman and Flash weren't considered "big" enough to have their own films - probably not big enough to justify the money that would need to be spent.  Any stand alone films, like Aquaman's, have to come after they'd already been established.

[redan]

I get why Cyborg didn’t have one because this version of Justice League basically is his origin story, he’s not a hero before this film, so this is his arch to fulfilling his potential. The Flash on the other hand easily could have had his own, as he’s obviously got some history before the film starts and is defo traditionally a bigger superhero than Iron Man or Thor were before their first film.

My only guess is they wanted to show his naivety and inexperience and that is Batman’s whole purpose to bring them together and lead them. If he didn’t need to do that he’s be pretty redundant. Therefore maybe having a Flash film before JL where he’s the main hero and fights and defeats a big bad wouldn’t go well with the narrative they wanted for the character in this film

[my usenme changed?]

I loved it!! Shame there'll probably be no sequel. 

[Red Beret]

I get why Cyborg didn’t have one because this version of Justice League basically is his origin story, he’s not a hero before this film, so this is his arch to fulfilling his potential. The Flash on the other hand easily could have had his own, as he’s obviously got some history before the film starts and is defo traditionally a bigger superhero than Iron Man or Thor were before their first film.

My only guess is they wanted to show his naivety and inexperience and that is Batman’s whole purpose to bring them together and lead them. If he didn’t need to do that he’s be pretty redundant. Therefore maybe having a Flash film before JL where he’s the main hero and fights and defeats a big bad wouldn’t go well with the narrative they wanted for the character in this film

See, I'd say that Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman on their own absolutely crush any single Marvel Character.  They're just massive.  The issue is that Marvel are a much stronger ensemble, so after introducing the initial characters of Iron Man, Thor and Cap, bringing them altogether in Avengers is overwhelmingly powerful.

WB look at the numbers, so I'm less confident than you are about The Flash.  Bear in mind we've already seen fast guys in two different Marvel universes, and WB are having to reach out to regular cinema goers, not just DC junkies - casual filmgoers who have likely experienced some of the MCU, but probably know very little about DC heroes beyond the Big Three I mentioned above.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if you look at the "lesser" Avengers, Hawkeye appeared in Thor, Black Window in Iron Man 2; hell Hulk got two films. So there was plenty of opportunity to develop these other DC characters, if only WB had shown some patience.  WB just tried to do too much, too fast

[red_Mark1980]

See, I'd say that Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman on their own absolutely crush any single Marvel Character.  They're just massive.  The issue is that Marvel are a much stronger ensemble, so after introducing the initial characters of Iron Man, Thor and Cap, bringing them altogether in Avengers is overwhelmingly powerful.

WB look at the numbers, so I'm less confident than you are about The Flash.  Bear in mind we've already seen fast guys in two different Marvel universes, and WB are having to reach out to regular cinema goers, not just DC junkies - casual filmgoers who have likely experienced some of the MCU, but probably know very little about DC heroes beyond the Big Three I mentioned above.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if you look at the "lesser" Avengers, Hawkeye appeared in Thor, Black Window in Iron Man 2; hell Hulk got two films. So there was plenty of opportunity to develop these other DC characters, if only WB had shown some patience.  WB just tried to do too much, too fast

Before the Iron Man film (that was the first, or was it Cap America?) Aside from Hulk and Spiderman the mainstream couldn't really name a marvel superhero.

Burtons Batman (and clearly Donner's Superman) make them household names.

Even before that Adam West made Batman a name in everyone's household. Linda Carters Wonder Woman lives long in the memory of a lot of men my age.

 They are better characters and I'll fight anyone who claims otherwise.

[tubby]

Before this boom period, I'd say the big 3 were Superman, Batman and Spider-Man.  Just shows how well Marvel have done to get characters that people vaguely knew (Iron Man, Thor, etc) and characters that barely anyone knew (Guardians, Vision, etc) into the mainstream with such acclaim.

Don't think the DC heroes are better characters, but they're more extreme.  Superman is ridiculously powerful and Batman has the most insane plot armour of any of them.  Marvel characters tend to have more flaws.

[AndyMuller]

DC characters are more god-like whilst most of Marvel characters are more human-like.

[Red Beret]

Before this boom period, I'd say the big 3 were Superman, Batman and Spider-Man.  Just shows how well Marvel have done to get characters that people vaguely knew (Iron Man, Thor, etc) and characters that barely anyone knew (Guardians, Vision, etc) into the mainstream with such acclaim.

Don't think the DC heroes are better characters, but they're more extreme.  Superman is ridiculously powerful and Batman has the most insane plot armour of any of them.  Marvel characters tend to have more flaws.

When you say flaws, do you mean more vulnerable to damage?  Bruce Wayne is clearly a very flawed and damaged character, and in the comics I believe Tony Stark was an alcoholic?  So there's flaws in the human sense, but also flaws in terms of how powerful/vulnerable they are. 

It just goes to show how badly DC/WB have fumbled this that I completely forgot about the Green Lantern film.  The mistakes made with Justice League are not new ones.

[tubby]

When you say flaws, do you mean more vulnerable to damage?  Bruce Wayne is clearly a very flawed and damaged character, and in the comics I believe Tony Stark was an alcoholic?  So there's flaws in the human sense, but also flaws in terms of how powerful/vulnerable they are. 

It just goes to show how badly DC/WB have fumbled this that I completely forgot about the Green Lantern film.  The mistakes made with Justice League are not new ones.

The X-Men/mutants are a metaphor for racial struggles and trying to fit in, Spidey was arrogant and his Uncle died because of it before he learned responsibility, Stark is an alcoholic, Banner/Hulk is about anger issues, Daredevil is blind, F4 are a dysfunctional family who row all the time, etc.  They've always seemed more human compared to their DC counterparts.

But I do think they've moved more towards that sort of stuff with DC over the past 10 years or so with Superman dealing with being an immigrant (of sorts), that kind of thing.

[El Lobo]

Apparently if they sped up all the slow-mo sections to normal time then the Snyder cut would be shorter than the original

[Sat1]

Flash can reverse time?

Who was the big viking type guy who axed Darkside?

[Agent99]

Flash can reverse time?

Who was the big viking type guy who axed Darkside?

He runs so fast that he can time travel. It's one of his main powers.

Ares was the one who axed him. The David Thewlis character from Wonder Woman.