Author Topic: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament  (Read 38585 times)

Offline classycarra

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #360 on: March 23, 2017, 02:51:35 pm »
We went from 3 successive Labour governments to a highly UKIP influenced referendum where we dropped out of Europe on the backdrop of this:


You'd have to live in a bubble to not feel it.

I take your points, I realise I wasn't very clear.

There were groups like UKIP and the BNP long before 7th July bombings, I guess I just don't want them to feel like they've achieved anything particularly noteworthy here, or had a particularly big political influence (like the Madrid bombings on the eve of election).

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #361 on: March 23, 2017, 02:54:43 pm »
No I don't see how that's wrong at all. As I said if the aim of such groups is to garner support from sunni muslims then targeting sunni civilians deliberately goes against such aims does it not?
 

I think maybe that was the case in the beginning as they were targeting Shia mosques in Syria and Iran and Alawi crowds in Turkey but last year in Turkey all their attacks were in crowded public places and most died were Sunni (well, because Sunni's are 80% of the population) and there were several sunni mosque bombings by ISIS in Iraq last few years.

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #362 on: March 23, 2017, 02:55:10 pm »
It does give them a platform to preach but your jumping to the wrong conclusion.
Terrorism has given pricks like this a platform to push their propaganda down people throats, and many are so Prejudice they buy it.
No disrespect to London but am a thousand times more worried about getting mugged walking around major citys than terrorism.


And this is why liberalism is taking a hit.

Imagine the amount of people on the fence about Brexit or Trump... they voice their concerns only to be told by many on the left they're racist/prejudice/stupid. People don't just fall into the the camp of being racist or not, there's a giant spectrum of viewpoints.

It's so unbelievably counter productive.
:D

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #363 on: March 23, 2017, 02:58:15 pm »
I take your points, I realise I wasn't very clear.

There were groups like UKIP and the BNP long before 7th July bombings, I guess I just don't want them to feel like they've achieved anything particularly noteworthy here, or had a particularly big political influence (like the Madrid bombings on the eve of election).

Well the UK's intelligence has gone a long way to prevent further happenings here, but what about the likes of Paris etc? You also have the heavy rise of social media and message boards, which take every incident and magnify it ten fold. It's not entirely down to terrorism of course but it's some of the best ammunition the far right use very well.
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Offline gary75

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #364 on: March 23, 2017, 03:06:04 pm »
I would prefer it if the media and the like stopped using the term terrorist and branded them murderers.
Some may see the terrorist term as a glamourous tag to have, rather than be grouped in with other criminals.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #365 on: March 23, 2017, 03:14:18 pm »
And this is why liberalism is taking a hit.

Imagine the amount of people on the fence about Brexit or Trump... they voice their concerns only to be told by many on the left they're racist/prejudice/stupid. People don't just fall into the the camp of being racist or not, there's a giant spectrum of viewpoints.

It's so unbelievably counter productive.

Well, I do think many of those who voted for Brexit or Trump are those things. Am I meant to keep quiet, and not say what I really think in this post-PC world?

The right seem to get away with calling those who share similar beliefs to me "cucks", "snowflakes", "libtards". "terrorist sympathisers/apologists" etc
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 03:17:41 pm by ShakaHislop »

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #366 on: March 23, 2017, 03:33:04 pm »
Well, I do think many of those who voted for Brexit or Trump are those things. Am I meant to keep quiet, and not say what I really think in this post-PC world?

The right seem to get away with calling those who share similar beliefs to me "cucks", "snowflakes", "libtards". "terrorist sympathisers/apologists" etc

But that's part of being far/alt-right isn't it? Let the right make sweeping generalisations and talk shit.

Being liberal is about tolerance and understanding, but many now seem to be incapable of this if someone else doesn't share their worldview. Some of the vile liberals come out with makes my skin crawl, and I'm a borderline hippy.

You're either one camp or the other now.

This has gone a bit off topic.  :D
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 03:37:20 pm by Kashinoda »
:D

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #367 on: March 23, 2017, 03:37:35 pm »
Police: UK Parliament attacker was Khalid Masood, also known as Khalid Chaudry, a 52-year-old Briton with criminal convictions. He was born in Kent and most recently living in West Midlands.

Offline classycarra

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #368 on: March 23, 2017, 03:37:39 pm »
The murderer was 52 years old. He's been named now. He has several convictions on criminal record (GBH, possession of weapons, public service orders)

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #369 on: March 23, 2017, 03:39:59 pm »
Is it me or he is much more older than other terrorists who do these attacks?

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #370 on: March 23, 2017, 03:52:21 pm »
Is it me or he is much more older than other terrorists who do these attacks?

Probably wasn't a terrorist that's what I'd go with, just a pure mental case. ISIS and any other Terrorist groups will of course claim responsibility but they do so for stuff that has zero involvement on their part, it's all part of the plan to appear larger and more powerful than they are.

Quote
Police said there had been no prior intelligence about Masood's intention to carry out an attack.
But he was known to the police and his previous convictions included GBH, possession of offensive weapons and public order offences.
His first conviction was in November 1983 for criminal damage and his last conviction was in December 2003 for possession of a knife.

Guy was nothing but a low life criminal, a murderer who probably intended this to be his big act of crime glory. Piece of shite.



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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #371 on: March 23, 2017, 03:52:25 pm »
Is it me or he is much more older than other terrorists who do these attacks?
Yep seems to be, I'm sure the 7/7 bombers were 20-30, maybe the one was mid 30s but certainly younger.
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #372 on: March 23, 2017, 03:54:15 pm »
Probably wasn't a terrorist that's what I'd go with, just a pure mental case. ISIS and any other Terrorist groups will of course claim responsibility but they do so for stuff that has zero involvement on their part, it's all part of the plan to appear larger and more powerful than they are.

Guy was nothing but a low life criminal, a murderer who probably intended this to be his big act of crime glory. Piece of shite.



Yes agree with that, he's just an Islamist nutcase.  Perhaps he had a bad day, got his benefit stopped or something and decided to take it out on someone.  It will be claimed to be a terrorist incident because of who he is more than anything else I suspect
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Offline classycarra

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #373 on: March 23, 2017, 03:56:59 pm »
Yes agree with that, he's just an Islamist nutcase.  Perhaps he had a bad day, got his benefit stopped or something and decided to take it out on someone.  It will be claimed to be a terrorist incident because of who he is more than anything else I suspect

Sorry, but what the fuck? Don't try to shoehorn in bullshit like having a bad day and not receiving his benefit as a potential cause.

It will be claimed as a terrorist incident because it very much was one. Unequivocally. Because of what he did, not who he was.

Offline wellred82

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #374 on: March 23, 2017, 03:59:40 pm »
People arn't just probed by MI5 if they are an every day joe. He was a person of interest at one time so there was obviously something out of the ordinary with him. He was a terrorist.


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Offline Phil M

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #375 on: March 23, 2017, 04:08:21 pm »
Yes agree with that, he's just an Islamist nutcase.  Perhaps he had a bad day, got his benefit stopped or something and decided to take it out on someone.  It will be claimed to be a terrorist incident because of who he is more than anything else I suspect

Christ.
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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #376 on: March 23, 2017, 04:09:15 pm »
People arn't just probed by MI5 if they are an every day joe. He was a person of interest at one time so there was obviously something out of the ordinary with him. He was a terrorist.


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A terrorist is defined as someone who does things for political aims, e.g the IRA, Basque Seperatists etc. This piece of shit was nothing but a murderer.
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Offline wellred82

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #377 on: March 23, 2017, 04:10:06 pm »
A terrorist is defined as someone who does things for political aims, e.g the IRA, Basque Seperatists etc. This piece of shit was nothing but a murderer.

Ok terrorist inspired murderer then. Doesn't really make much of a difference now does it?


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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #378 on: March 23, 2017, 04:14:49 pm »
Obviously he was a terrorist, in the same way that the killer of Jo cox was. The only difference is that this is a Muslim terrorist while that was a mentally deranged terrorist. If you're Muslim you can't be mentally disturbed. Apart from being a Muslim, you're otherwise in perfect shape, the only issue this lunatic has was his religion, clearly.

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #379 on: March 23, 2017, 04:23:48 pm »
Did that happen yesterday? Could you share it with us?
An annual event, interesting that it was being widely circulated mere hours before the attack.
He's referring to this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalsa_Salana

Which isn't due until August.
I guess the point is that where there is condemnation of violence by Muslims it tends to be ignored.

Muslims i know tend to be pissed off with casual racism and islamophobia but absolutely abhor any violence. Of course anyone who knows me is more likely to be liberal minded.

Offline classycarra

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #380 on: March 23, 2017, 04:26:43 pm »
An annual event, interesting that it was being widely circulated mere hours before the attack. I guess the point is that where there is condemnation of violence by Muslims it tends to be ignored.


I'm not sure what your point is. The event did not take place yesterday, therefore wasn't in the news.

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #381 on: March 23, 2017, 04:26:56 pm »
I guess the point is that where there is condemnation of violence by Muslims it tends to be ignored.

No it doesn't. I've seen Khan's and the Muslim Council's condemnations on plenty of impartial news sites today. It might be ignored by certain people, but people will always choose to ignore what they want to ignore; that goes for anything in life.

There are still countless Muslims who deny these terrorist acts have anything whatsoever to do with religion which is wrong. That's them choosing to ignore what they want to ignore as well.

Offline Purple Red

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #382 on: March 23, 2017, 04:32:13 pm »
There can be little doubt that this was a terrorist incident with a twisted Islamic motive. What is pretty clear is that such extremism makes up only a tiny minority of the global Islamic community and even less of a minority commit terrorist acts. The anger is understandable, but perspective must be maintained.

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #383 on: March 23, 2017, 04:35:09 pm »
Sorry, but what the fuck? Don't try to shoehorn in bullshit like having a bad day and not receiving his benefit as a potential cause.

It will be claimed as a terrorist incident because it very much was one. Unequivocally. Because of what he did, not who he was.
lYou have no idea why he did it neither do I, I was just trying to point out that he is not a typical terrorist due to his age profile.  No-one really knows why Jo Cox was murdered as the guy has refused to give a reason.  It will be seen as a terrorist attack because of where it happened and the fact the bloke may be a Muslim.  I have no sympathy whatsoever for his causes or why he did it, just trying to point out that the reason he did it may not be as clear cut as you or I may necessarily think.

I probably worded it badly though
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Offline classycarra

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #384 on: March 23, 2017, 04:42:20 pm »
lYou have no idea why he did it neither do I, I was just trying to point out that he is not a typical terrorist due to his age profile.  No-one really knows why Jo Cox was murdered as the guy has refused to give a reason.  It will be seen as a terrorist attack because of where it happened and the fact the bloke may be a Muslim.  I have no sympathy whatsoever for his causes or why he did it, just trying to point out that the reason he did it may not be as clear cut as you or I may necessarily think.

I probably worded it badly though

The way you've worded it makes it seem like he's being hard done by, being referred to as a terrorist only because he's a muslim. This is not true. He's being referred to as a terrorist because he is one.

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #385 on: March 23, 2017, 04:56:16 pm »
I guess the point is that where there is condemnation of violence by Muslims it tends to be ignored.
The statement by the MCB was posted right on the Guardian live feed in amongst updates from the Met and journalists. The statement was absolutely categorical in its condemnation and inclusive using "our democracy" and "our country". Job done and impossible to ignore.


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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #386 on: March 23, 2017, 05:28:00 pm »
There can be little doubt that this was a terrorist incident with a twisted Islamic motive. What is pretty clear is that such extremism makes up only a tiny minority of the global Islamic community and even less of a minority commit terrorist acts. The anger is understandable, but perspective must be maintained.
Your probably right but one of the tactics to fight these nutters is to not give them any recognition.if he was funded or trained by ISIS then he's a terrorist.
I wouldn't mind if they started calling British people who commit these types of attacks traitors rather than terrorists, they are committing acts of treason. lock the bas... up for life.

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #387 on: March 23, 2017, 05:28:24 pm »
One thing that bothers me after these attacks is the silence of Muslim dominant countries. And i don't mean they should condemn loudly after every single attack in Europe when their own countries are routine target of these attacks. But the problem is they are silent (not loud enough) about ISIS and terrorism in general in their own countries as well. I am yet to hear head of Tunisia, Egypt, Chechnya, Saudi Arabia etc etc pretty much every muslim country repeatedly calling out ISIS. It's like they won't bother as long as only civilians are targets and not care unless president's or king's families suffer from it. Even for the Syrian immigration issue, why can't i hear Muslim countries presidents and kings to welcome those innocent people with open arms in Iran,Saudi Arabia,Algeria etc 50+ muslim countries and instead I hear Trudeau to say they are welcome in Canada.

Saudi Arabia have let in 2.5 million Syrians since 2011. Of course, the Western Media will never ever report that. Just like they will never mention Muslim countries condemning these heinous terrorist attacks around the world.

http://www.arabnews.com/saudi-arabia/news/805236

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #388 on: March 23, 2017, 05:30:10 pm »
Saudi Arabia have let in 2.5 million Syrians since 2011. Of course, the Western Media will never ever report that. Just like they will never mention Muslim countries condemning these heinous terrorist attacks around the world.

http://www.arabnews.com/saudi-arabia/news/805236
I'm not sure why this is relevant?

Of course they condemned it, it was a deplorable act.  The only news would have been if a country didn't condem it for some bizarre reason.
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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #389 on: March 23, 2017, 05:44:43 pm »
A terrorist is defined as someone who does things for political aims, e.g the IRA, Basque Seperatists etc. This piece of shit was nothing but a murderer.

And you know that how?
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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #390 on: March 23, 2017, 05:52:55 pm »
I'm not sure why this is relevant?

Of course they condemned it, it was a deplorable act.  The only news would have been if a country didn't condem it for some bizarre reason.

Did you not see the post I responded to? "One thing that bothers me after these attacks is the silence of Muslim dominant countries." The implication is that Muslim countries support these crimes by their silence. That's why it's relevant.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 05:55:43 pm by LFC when it suits »

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #391 on: March 23, 2017, 05:53:31 pm »
If this was a clinically-planned attack, years in the making and masterminded by some ruthless organisation, then surely it would be less - please excuse the word but it gets across what I mean - amateurish? A criminal with convictions like that would surely be able to get hold of a gun, perhaps even some sort of automatic weapon? Surely he'd take a heavier, sturdier car - perhaps a lorry, perhaps with explosives in it, rather than a Hyundai i40? Perhaps he'd open fire with that weapon into a rock concert, or - if the location was important - then into the crowd opposite the London Eye on New Year's Eve?

Thankfully none of those things happened, and - tragic though it was for them - 'only' 4 were killed. But it could have been so much worse, very easily, and that is scary. You would hope that intelligence services would take down a group operating like that, but an individual could do so much more damage than this nutter caused. And the fact that it wasn't that much more 'clinical' does lend weight to the idea of it being a 'lone wolf', acting without much forethought.
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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #392 on: March 23, 2017, 05:57:06 pm »
Your probably right but one of the tactics to fight these nutters is to not give them any recognition.if he was funded or trained by ISIS then he's a terrorist.
I wouldn't mind if they started calling British people who commit these types of attacks traitors rather than terrorists, they are committing acts of treason. lock the bas... up for life.

There are different types of terrorists, I think. If he was funded and trained by ISIS then I think he's a terrorist in a fuller sense of the word. An international terrorist if you will. If he was just acting on his own twisted ideology he still has to be defined as a terrorist, a domestic terrorist maybe. I agree that there can be concerns about giving them recognition. Equally I don't think we should afraid to call people what they are. This reprehensible human being intended to cause terror in order to fulfill some motive thus making him a terrorist.

Offline zebenzui

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #393 on: March 23, 2017, 06:23:19 pm »
I'm not comfortable with calling it terrorism until I learn what his agenda was. Right now I'm still at the stage of regarding the perpetrator as some nutter.

"I hate the west" as motivation does not automatically make it terrorism.

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #394 on: March 23, 2017, 06:34:42 pm »
There are different types of terrorists, I think. If he was funded and trained by ISIS then I think he's a terrorist in a fuller sense of the word. An international terrorist if you will. If he was just acting on his own twisted ideology he still has to be defined as a terrorist, a domestic terrorist maybe. I agree that there can be concerns about giving them recognition. Equally I don't think we should afraid to call people what they are. This reprehensible human being intended to cause terror in order to fulfill some motive thus making him a terrorist.
He may be defined as a terrorist but we can refer to him as we please.am all for taking any meaning away from his actions. as far as am concerned the worst thing we can do is to give him and other potential killers the satisfaction and recognition of being a part of ISIS.
He's just a nasty piece of work who wanted to hurt as many people as possible because he's full of hatred for this world, he doesn't want to remembered for this of course, he wants to be remembered as a terrorist fighting for a cause.
Splatter his criminal record all over the papers, let these people know we will display their sad lives for all to see.
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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #395 on: March 23, 2017, 06:37:19 pm »
Yes agree with that, he's just an Islamist nutcase.  Perhaps he had a bad day, got his benefit stopped or something and decided to take it out on someone.  It will be claimed to be a terrorist incident because of who he is more than anything else I suspect

This might be one of the most idiotic things I've ever read on here.

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #396 on: March 23, 2017, 06:58:51 pm »
Did you not see the post I responded to? "One thing that bothers me after these attacks is the silence of Muslim dominant countries." The implication is that Muslim countries support these crimes by their silence. That's why it's relevant.
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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #397 on: March 23, 2017, 07:02:20 pm »
I'm not sure what your point is. The event did not take place yesterday, therefore wasn't in the news.
The event took place ages ago but wasn't widely reported by mainstream media. It was reported by social media. My point is that mainstream media will miss key news stories because they don't fit the narrative.

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #398 on: March 23, 2017, 07:13:24 pm »
This might be one of the most idiotic things I've ever read on here.
it was a badly worded attempt to try to explain that he might not have been a terrorist in the grand scheme of things, as he appears to be a kind of a lone wolf with no previous indications that he might be sympathetic to the likes of ISIS.

He still carried out a terrorist style attack at the House of Commons, however, and the fact he is Muslim leads people to think that it was a terrorist attack.

Had it been a white guy who drove onto a pavement and mowed people down elsewhere in London, would it be claimed to have been a terrorist attack or just a nutcase who murdered people.

The Jo Cox murder wasn't proclaimed to be a terrorist attack but just a murder.

Both were clearly derranged but one is a terrorist and one a murderer despite one of them having links to a far right organisation.

At the end of the day both are murdering scumbags

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Re: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament
« Reply #399 on: March 23, 2017, 07:38:19 pm »
People arn't just probed by MI5 if they are an every day joe.

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