Topic: Terrorism Incident outside UK Parliament

[killer-heels]

At the same time many of those countries don't, Saudi Arabia had an incident in 2015 but other than that you need to go back a while. The selection of Muslim countries that has a constant barrage of incidents is relatively small.

I think in general there needs to be a point made about Muslims speaking out about this sort of stuff in numbers, to put clear distance between being a Muslim and being an extremist. Because at the moment every one of these terror attacks just recruits more people to the far right, which in turn creates more racial friction, which in turn creates more extremists, and on and on we go.

The problem is it's easy to become a target if you speak out, or exiled from your community.

Terrorism has never been more effective and I really worry for the future, you like to think they'll just get bored but with Trump in the Whitehouse and Brexit on the door step why would they?

What level of muslim response would be sufficient? A womans march style protest/campaign with only muslims in attendance? Would that satisfy people? Seems a bit absurd to create some sort of analysis on what sort of reaction a group of people should provide.

Also, we have had a fair number of these attempts thwarted, right? Maybe they were thwarted by muslims notifying the police and intelligence services? We wouldnt have known that to protect those people but we dont know if it was that community that helped out.

The only response we need from muslims is for them and any community to inform the authorities if they see something untoward. The intelligence and police services have all said that it is happening and that satisfies me anyway.

Statements or non statements from governments yesterday are just fluff.

[Igor Tripod Biscan]

In other news, Hopkins is a c*nt

[puroresu_kid]

Many bombs in busy Turkish, Iraqi and Syrian public market places would suggest you are entirely incorrect in this assertion. You appear unaware, or unwilling to broach, of Islamic sectarianism.

No I'm not unaware at all.  ISIS and others will justify attacks against for instance Shia civilians as they don't see them as Muslims. As far as they are concerned they are disbelievers.  Now attacking a busy market place in say Jeddah or Marrakesh suddenly becomes a lot more difficult as those are Sunni's and if the whole premise of the ideology is to garner sunni support that wont work.

[AlphaDelta]

Its a horrible feeling when something like this happens so close to home, only a week ago I walked right through that same area as I have done many times. I like London, but when I travel down from Liverpool  its always in the back of my mind, not a fear, but more a 'what if'.
When it broke yesterday I had a feeling in the pit of my stomach, like a sinking feeling.

What angers me, rightly or wrongly, is the likes of James Corden getting airtime for making statements. Yeah he's entitled to that, no probs, but why is that headline news. Because he's famous? 

[armchair-fan]

The attacks in Muslim countries will be more directed to the governments and security forces as justifying attacks on Muslim civilians wont be possible.

I'm not sure about that - suicide bombers attacked pilgrims at the Prophet's Mosque in Medina during Ramadan last year.  They don't give a flying fuck about killing Muslims!!

Terrorism has never been more effective and I really worry for the future, you like to think they'll just get bored but with Trump in the Whitehouse and Brexit on the door step why would they?

Also not sure about this.  If they best they have is some nutjob running his car into a pavement it's reassuring.  It's hardly a complex dirty bomb plot, or whatever we were fearful of 15 years ago.

[Redman0151]

Man arrested trying to drive car into crowd in Belgium

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/antwerp-belgium-car-attack-london-10083953?service=responsive

[SP]

What angers me, rightly or wrongly, is the likes of James Corden getting airtime for making statements. Yeah he's entitled to that, no probs, but why is that headline news. Because he's famous? 

The truth of the matter is that the amount of actual news in the aftermath of an attack would only fill about 5 minutes. The rolling news agenda has an insatiable desire for fresh material, so suddenly someone British that Americans see on TV becomes news filler. In the after aftermath of an atrocity, once it is over, the release of information is fairly slow, but the networks think they have to switch to live breaking update mode. It is filler, very sombre and earnest filler, but filler nonetheless.

[SP]

Man arrested trying to drive car into crowd in Belgium

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/antwerp-belgium-car-attack-london-10083953?service=responsive

How incompetent do you have to be to decide to drive into pedestrians and then fail to hit anyone? This is not a shadowy criminal mastermind. 

[Kashinoda]

Also not sure about this.  If they best they have is some nutjob running his car into a pavement it's reassuring.  It's hardly a complex dirty bomb plot, or whatever we were fearful of 15 years ago.

When I say 'Terrorism has never been more effective' I was referring to it's affect on people's mindset. People are more scared, divided and hate filled than they were post 911. And all you need now is a car or truck.

What level of muslim response would be sufficient? A womans march style protest/campaign with only muslims in attendance? Would that satisfy people? Seems a bit absurd to create some sort of analysis on what sort of reaction a group of people should provide.

Also, we have had a fair number of these attempts thwarted, right? Maybe they were thwarted by muslims notifying the police and intelligence services? We wouldnt have known that to protect those people but we dont know if it was that community that helped out.

The only response we need from muslims is for them and any community to inform the authorities if they see something untoward. The intelligence and police services have all said that it is happening and that satisfies me anyway.

Statements or non statements from governments yesterday are just fluff.

But we live in a world that's starting to become full of angry disillusioned people who wouldn't stop to think 'oh I wonder if Muslim co-operation helped bust that terror attack'.

You could say well 'fuck them, they're racist idiots'... which was all very well and good but now we have a Trump president and Brexit sandwich. Something has to change going forward, some Muslim response would go a mighty long way (in my subjective opinion).

[Alan_X]

I'm not sure about that - suicide bombers attacked pilgrims at the Prophet's Mosque in Medina during Ramadan last year.  They don't give a flying fuck about killing Muslims!!

Also not sure about this.  If they best they have is some nutjob running his car into a pavement it's reassuring.  It's hardly a complex dirty bomb plot, or whatever we were fearful of 15 years ago.

Justifying attacks on Muslims is easy -  there's Sunni vs Shia for a start, it being the wrong kind of Sunni or Shia, not being religious enough, working with enemies or just being in the wrong place.

And you're spot on about the effectiveness of this latest attack.  I'm not playing down the awful impact on the people who lost someone but it's really a token attack in terms of numbers. More people die in road accidents in London than are killed by terrorists.

[The North Bank]

When I say 'Terrorism has never been more effective' I was referring to it's affect on people's mindset. People are more scared, divided and hate filled than they were post 911. And all you need now is a car or truck.

But we live in a world that's starting to become full of angry disillusioned people who wouldn't stop to think 'oh I wonder if Muslim co-operation helped bust that terror attack'.

You could say well 'fuck them, they're racist idiots'... which was all very well and good but now we have a Trump president and Brexit sandwich. Something has to change going forward.

Anyone who had a hand in assisting the terrorist will no doubt be found, caught , and punished.
Feel free to ask every Muslim to distance themselves, or be seen as a terrorist. Does that include Liverpool footballers, Like Mane and Can, or will you be more specific as to which Muslim you want to dissociate themselves.

[Kashinoda]

Anyone who had a hand in assisting the terrorist will no doubt be found, caught , and punished.
Feel free to ask every Muslim to distance themselves, or be seen as a terrorist. Does that include Liverpool footballers, Like Mane and Can, or will you be more specific as to which Muslim you want to dissociate themselves.

Doesn't need to be so black and white does it?

[Alan_X]

When I say 'Terrorism has never been more effective' I was referring to it's affect on people's mindset. People are more scared, divided and hate filled than they were post 911. And all you need now is a car or truck.

But we live in a world that's starting to become full of angry disillusioned people who wouldn't stop to think 'oh I wonder if Muslim co-operation helped bust that terror attack'.

You could say well 'fuck them, they're racist idiots'... which was all very well and good but now we have a Trump president and Brexit sandwich. Something has to change going forward, some Muslim response would go a mighty long way (in my subjective opinion).

That's not the way it feels where I am. Everyone I've spoken to at work and by phone in London today is just getting on with life. Maybe there are people seething with anger but they probably seethe with anger anyway over scroungers, paedos, and other general Daily Mail type shite.

[McrRed]

a Trump president and Brexit sandwich.
 Something has to change going forward, some Muslim response would go a mighty long way (in my subjective opinion).

Doing the Facebook rounds yesterday, 30,000 Muslims in a Muslims Against Terror protest in the UK. Barely reported. Doesn't fit the story/agenda.

[Crosby Nick]

That's not the way it feels where I am. Everyone I've spoken to at work and by phone in London today is just getting on with life. Maybe there are people seething with anger but they probably seethe with anger anyway over scroungers, paedos, and other general Daily Mail type shite.

Agreed. You see the predictable comments on social media amd newspaper articles banging on about immigration/how we're all under attack etc but my day to day life today has been the same as any other, as it had for all my colleagues. Obviously there's been a bit of chat about it but beyond that it's been a perfectly normal day, and hopefully has been for the vast majority of people living in London.

[The North Bank]

Doesn't need to be so black and white does it?

It probably does, grey areas will only add to the confusion, as do sweeping statements.

[classycarra]

That's not the way it feels where I am. Everyone I've spoken to at work and by phone in London today is just getting on with life. Maybe there are people seething with anger but they probably seethe with anger anyway over scroungers, paedos, and other general Daily Mail type shite.

Agreed. You see the predictable comments on social media amd newspaper articles banging on about immigration/how we're all under attack etc but my day to day life today has been the same as any other, as it had for all my colleagues. Obviously there's been a bit of chat about it but beyond that it's been a perfectly normal day, and hopefully has been for the vast majority of people living in London.

I'm working a few hundred metres from Westminster bridge today, and this is my sense too.

[classycarra]

No I'm not unaware at all.  ISIS and others will justify attacks against for instance Shia civilians as they don't see them as Muslims. As far as they are concerned they are disbelievers.  Now attacking a busy market place in say Jeddah or Marrakesh suddenly becomes a lot more difficult as those are Sunni's and if the whole premise of the ideology is to garner sunni support that wont work.

So either your first point was entirely wrong, and giving Islamists a bit more credit than they deserve, or you count yourself in the "and others" you state above. Which is it?

Here is that first statement again:

"The attacks in Muslim countries will be more directed to the governments and security forces as justifying attacks on Muslim civilians wont be possible."

I'm assuming it's the former, and don't want you to think I'm presuming anything.

[Kashinoda]

That's not the way it feels where I am. Everyone I've spoken to at work and by phone in London today is just getting on with life. Maybe there are people seething with anger but they probably seethe with anger anyway over scroungers, paedos, and other general Daily Mail type shite.

It's not the way it feels within my group of friends either, but we're liberals so it's not really representative. Much like London isn't that representative of national sentiment.

It's by and large the Daily Mail types that have decided the last two major elections in the West, we have to stop dismissing these people because their numbers keep growing.

[filopastry]

That's not the way it feels where I am. Everyone I've spoken to at work and by phone in London today is just getting on with life. Maybe there are people seething with anger but they probably seethe with anger anyway over scroungers, paedos, and other general Daily Mail type shite.

Yep, the main anger I've seen today at work is at the usual opportunistic shite from the likes of Frottage.

I genuinely haven't heard one person even hinting this will influence how they go about their life, why should it.

[zero zero]

Doing the Facebook rounds yesterday, 30,000 Muslims in a Muslims Against Terror protest in the UK. Barely reported. Doesn't fit the story/agenda.

Did that happen yesterday? Could you share it with us?

[The North Bank]

Agreed. You see the predictable comments on social media amd newspaper articles banging on about immigration/how we're all under attack etc but my day to day life today has been the same as any other, as it had for all my colleagues. Obviously there's been a bit of chat about it but beyond that it's been a perfectly normal day, and hopefully has been for the vast majority of people living in London.

The attacker was British and born in the UK, as much as people want to blame immigrants, no immigration laws could have stopped this terrorist being here.

I live in London, dont even need to mention that its business as usual, for everyone here. Drove into work this morning, roads packed as usual, Ill be in central london this weekend, before heading to the football, and itll be jam packed as ever.
To be honest, its never even in the back of my mind, a terrorist attack. Then ill have to worry about my train derailing, being driven into by a drunk driver, getting robbed by a junkie, the list is endless.

[Kashinoda]

Did that happen yesterday? Could you share it with us?

He's referring to this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalsa_Salana

Which isn't due until August.

[oldfordie]

Am not sure how I feel about some of the reactions by people in authority.
Heard 2 over the last 24 hrs saying if a armed attack happened outside London then it would be a very different story. it would be carnage, it would take up to 4 hrs to get a armed response to the scene in some cases(which I find hard to believe but this is what he believes) we just haven't got the police on the ground due to government cutbacks. normally I would applaud honesty and guts for standing up and laying the blame on the government but is this not basically giving away a security flaw in our policing.

[Kashinoda]

Yep, the main anger I've seen today at work is at the usual opportunistic shite from the likes of Frottage.

I genuinely haven't heard one person even hinting this will influence how they go about their life, why should it.

What am I reading on this thread?

Opportunistic shite from the likes of Frottage has shaped our country for the next several generations.

Terrorism has given pricks like this a platform to push their propaganda down people throats, and many are so scared they buy it.

[zero zero]

He's referring to this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalsa_Salana

Which isn't due until August.

Cheers. I did find this in The Independent. Apparently, there's some debate whether Ahmadi Muslims are really Muslims or not, which I don't want to get into. I just think that at a time like this, it's not useful to remark that an actual terrorist attack outside our parliament gets more coverage than a peaceful religious gathering which is, frankly, none of anyone's business.

[youll never walk alone it]

And while this went on of course 30 kids were killed on a us led strike in syria, i got the link if anyone has not seen it,

[Phil M]

And while this went on of course 30 kids were killed on a us led strike in syria, i got the link if anyone has not seen it,

Tragic news but how is that relative?

[puroresu_kid]

Tragic news but how is that relative?

I guess its relative in this it what ISIS will use to justify such attacks. Civilians for Civilians.

[classycarra]

What am I reading on this thread?

Opportunistic shite from the likes of Frottage has shaped our country for the next several generations.

Terrorism has given pricks like this a platform to push their propaganda down people throats, and many are so scared they buy it.

With respect, I personally entirely disagree with this statement and/or sentiment. Terrorism like yesterday, and like 7th July bombings, has achieved the square root of fuck all, from my perspective

[Xabi Gerrard]

You could say well 'fuck them, they're racist idiots'... which was all very well and good but now we have a Trump president and Brexit sandwich. Something has to change going forward, some Muslim response would go a mighty long way (in my subjective opinion).

The highest profile Muslim in the UK, Sadiq Khan, has been unequivocal in his condemnation of the attacks. The head of the Muslim Council of Britain was on breakfast TV in the UK this morning condemning the attack. It's all there in plain sight for anyone to see.

As Killer Heels asked, what type of Muslim reponse would be sufficient for you? Literally you, Kashinoda from RAWK. Don't be vague about this saying you want "some Muslim response". I think a lot of Muslims out there would really like to know what's expected of them when they keep hearing about lack of Muslim response, so please do explain.

[puroresu_kid]

So either your first point was entirely wrong, and giving Islamists a bit more credit than they deserve, or you count yourself in the "and others" you state above. Which is it?

Here is that first statement again:
I'm assuming it's the former, and don't want you to think I'm presuming anything.

By others I mean other groups.  i.e Al Qeada, Al Shabab, etc etc

[SP]

With respect, I personally entirely disagree with this statement and/or sentiment. Terrorism like yesterday, and like 7th July bombings, has achieved the square root of fuck all, from my perspective

It aggravates tensions. It makes the West feel unsafe in their cities. It generates huge amounts of publicity.

The groups sponsoring terrorism want the conflict and tension that arises from civilian attacks. The worst that tension gets, the more alienated that Muslim Western populations gets, the easier that they are able to recruit. The terrorist attacks have achieved exactly what they wanted.

[Kashinoda]

With respect, I personally entirely disagree with this statement and/or sentiment. Terrorism like yesterday, and like 7th July bombings, has achieved the square root of fuck all, from my perspective

You don't think terrorism has anything to do with people's views towards Muslims, 'Brown People' or immigration? And has such had no influence in major elections or public opinion within the last 10 years? We'll agree to disagree on that.

[classycarra]

By others I mean other groups.  i.e Al Qeada, Al Shabab, etc etc

Thanks but that doesn't entirely answer my question.

Can you clarify you were wrong to say "The attacks in Muslim countries will be more directed to the governments and security forces as justifying attacks on Muslim civilians wont be possible"?

[classycarra]

It aggravates tensions. It makes the West feel unsafe in their cities. It generates huge amounts of publicity.

The groups sponsoring terrorism want the conflict and tension that arises from civilian attacks. The worst that tension gets, the more alienated that Muslim Western populations gets, the easier that they are able to recruit. The terrorist attacks have achieved exactly what they wanted.

Well yes, pertinent points. I suppose I was referring to the terrorists not exactly achieving the societal breakdown they are after. I think the tension and conflict has been fairly minimal

[Kashinoda]

The highest profile Muslim in the UK, Sadiq Khan, has been unequivocal in his condemnation of the attacks. The head of the Muslim Council of Britain was on breakfast TV in the UK this morning condemning the attack. It's all there in plain sight for anyone to see.

As Killer Heels asked, what type of Muslim reponse would be sufficient for you? Literally you, Kashinoda from RAWK. Don't be vague about this saying you want "some Muslim response". I think a lot of Muslims out there would really like to know what's expected of them when they keep hearing about lack of Muslim response, so please do explain.

Mate I don't know, take to the street in the thousands as a show of unity against hate?

Funnily enough I don't have the answers. 

[Kashinoda]

Well yes, pertinent points. I suppose I was referring to the terrorists not exactly achieving the societal breakdown they are after. I think the tension and conflict has been fairly minimal

We went from 3 successive Labour governments to a highly UKIP influenced referendum where we dropped out of Europe on the backdrop of this:


You'd have to live in a bubble to not feel it.

[oldfordie]

What am I reading on this thread?

Opportunistic shite from the likes of Frottage has shaped our country for the next several generations.

Terrorism has given pricks like this a platform to push their propaganda down people throats, and many are so scared they buy it.

It does give them a platform to preach but your jumping to the wrong conclusion.
Terrorism has given pricks like this a platform to push their propaganda down people throats, and many are so Prejudice they buy it.
No disrespect to London but am a thousand times more worried about getting mugged walking around major citys than terrorism.

[puroresu_kid]

Thanks but that doesn't entirely answer my question.

Can you clarify you were wrong to say "The attacks in Muslim countries will be more directed to the governments and security forces as justifying attacks on Muslim civilians wont be possible"?

No I don't see how that's wrong at all. As I said if the aim of such groups is to garner support from sunni muslims then targeting sunni civilians deliberately goes against such aims does it not?