Topic: Methadonia

[NYkopite]

Just watching this on HBO. Talk about hopelessness and despair. Shows just what damage drug use does to people over time & their stuggle to get & stay straight.

Methadonia: A documentary by Michel Negroponte.

The term "methadonia" describes a borderland for recovering heroin addicts on methadone maintenance. Here, addicts pass their time mixing methadone with benzodiazepines ("benzos") - a class of drugs used to treat anxiety and insomnia that includes such brand-name prescriptions as Xanax, Klonopin and Valium - which enhance their high, and keep them stuck in a gray area between addiction and "straightland."

Shot over the course of 18 months in New York City's Lower East Side, METHADONIA sheds light on the inherent flaws of legal methadone treatments for heroin addiction by profiling eight addicts, in various stages of recovery and relapse, who attend the New York Center for Addiction Treatment Services (NYCATS). This facility offers group therapy and outpatient support for its clients, many of whom are former heroin addicts now on methadone maintenance.

In addition to providing details on methadone addiction, METHADONIA explores the often-insurmountable obstacles addicts face on the road to rehabilitation. As men and women dream of living drug-free lives, they often find that the "liquid handcuffs" of methadone have robbed them of the physical and emotional willpower to do so.

[impartial]

i was on methadone for 3 years

[IloveGuinness17]

That has always been one thing that blows my mind here in America. All these anti-marijuana comercials. But what is really begining to destroy our country? Not alittle pot, its Methamphetamines. Absolutley viscious drug. I used to go to University in Southern Illinois. There was always meth heads hanging around the downtown area. Trust me, these were not people anymore, and the drug is being used by all ages. I know methadone and "meth" are two different things but I figured I was post this anyway.

[NYkopite]

i was on methadone for 3 years

There's a guy whose on at the moment whose trying to come off methadone by cutting down his dose over time. It looks brutal detoxing from it.

He managed to get off it at his second attempt. Just hope he can stay off now and get his life back together.

[impartial]

... and i would just like to say that ive had good experiences on drugs, like bill hicks -- im not denying it. and im not promoting it either.

people are generally weak. drug abuse is a symptom promoted by a culture of greed. i find it difficult to stomach people calling me a drug addict with such disdain when they themselves spend all day infront of tv. theres noting wrong with tv either, its just peoples abuse of it.

its the people who make 'drugs' look bad, drugs wouldnt be anything without people to abuse them. people are locked into a cycle of not knowing themselves and on opiates...  this cycle is perpetuated because all the pain is removed. the pain of comming off of an opiate is concentrated into a few really long weeks.

the only reason i came off methadone is because i discovered what my will is. knowing the will comes before love. love of a drug, love of a girl, love of anything except loving my will. its a little ball that cannot be beaten that sits inside, showing you the way. since comming off methadone, ive taught english in nepal and now write profusely, most of it garbage -- but sometimes i write something worth repeating. i also run a record store, and im now starting a social work course.

all of these people who are looking at drug addicts as those in a mindless self indulgence.. or the scum of the earth, why not show that you are a person of real character and go hug the person with a needle sticking out of his arm in the gutter.  they are OUR sick children. we're only as good as our worst.  instead i see most people judge and distance themselves when it just as easily could have been them.

the thing with opiates is that they oxadise the blood, which makes it look sick. there are lots of people abusing drugs that arent opiates and you'd never know. i challenge anyone to take a hit of dimethyltriptamine and not call it a profound, positive experience. it is not chemically addictive and its not going to send you to a side of abuse. it lasts for two mins and does about as much damage to your brain as a bottle of coke. it would certainly loose a lot of the shut off existentionalist tripe that a lot of people now function in. terrorists ( ps .. news networks do their jobs for them...  ) are not going to destroy our society, its people who will not reach out and talk to those who have fallen. media is the new religon, and im sure most of you know what marx had to say about religion...

i dare you to love, its harder than anything ive ever had to do.

[impartial]

There's a guy whose on at the moment whose trying to come off methadone by cutting down his dose over time. It looks brutal detoxing from it.

He managed to get off it at his second attempt. Just hope he can stay off now and get his life back together.

detoxing from methadone was harder than comming off heroin... and i managed to come off heroin before going onto the lovely government sponsored methadone.

[impartial]

That has always been one thing that blows my mind here in America. All these anti-marijuana comercials. But what is really begining to destroy our country? Not alittle pot, its Methamphetamines. Absolutley viscious drug. I used to go to University in Southern Illinois. There was always meth heads hanging around the downtown area. Trust me, these were not people anymore, and the drug is being used by all ages. I know methadone and "meth" are two different things but I figured I was post this anyway.

"i find it ironic they have an anti marijuana commercial and then have a budweiser add."

[NYkopite]

all of these people who are looking at drug addicts as those in a mindless self indulgence.. or the scum of the earth, why not show that you are a person of real character and go hug the person with a needle sticking out of his arm in the gutter.  they are OUR sick children. we're only as good as our worst.  instead i see most people judge and distance themselves when it just as easily could have been them.

Well said. Unfortunately, many people prefer to judge than to help.
I think there is a great deal of ignorance around about the nature of addiction, and the struggle faced by those dealing with it (which just adds to the problem rather than helps with the solution).

Really good to hear you got off the methadone.

[Roger]

People should be made to drink it at the pharmacy. Loads of it gets sold on. Possibly due to over prescription.

[Withnail]

drugs are baaad,mkay ?
bottom line is nobody forces people to take drugs, i've done more than my fair share of skunk, whizz, e's,etc, but i would never be stupid enough to start doing heroin.
heroin is for idiots, you know its going to fuck you up so don't even start doing it.
i have no sympathy for heroin users whatsoever, they are the cause of most petty crime, and usually they are born wasters anyway.

[impartial]

hey man, i said heroin was for idiots before i was there. a lot of people get into a state of mind where they dont really care about the consequences. really you have no idea, and the lack of compassion for someone who takes mdma? i mean come on man, grow up. infact, go have some kids, the world needs more people like you

[ewok-red]

drugs are baaad,mkay ?
bottom line is nobody forces people to take drugs, i've done more than my fair share of skunk, whizz, e's,etc, but i would never be stupid enough to start doing heroin.
heroin is for idiots, you know its going to fuck you up so don't even start doing it.
i have no sympathy for heroin users whatsoever, they are the cause of most petty crime, and usually they are born wasters anyway.

what garbage. theres a job at the Daily mail waiting for you, you hypocrit.  the drugs i do are ok, but those horrible smackheads need condeming......arrgggghhh

'born wasters'  - so its genetic then? if so, surely its not their fault...(NB i do not think its genetic but surely thats the lofgical response to your theory)

[impartial]

People should be made to drink it at the pharmacy. Loads of it gets sold on. Possibly due to over prescription.

thats a good idea roger, but i would infact go one step further and say get rid of all the methadone

[impartial]

drugs are baaad,mkay ?
bottom line is nobody forces people to take drugs, i've done more than my fair share of skunk, whizz, e's,etc, but i would never be stupid enough to start doing heroin.
heroin is for idiots, you know its going to fuck you up so don't even start doing it.
i have no sympathy for heroin users whatsoever, they are the cause of most petty crime, and usually they are born wasters anyway.

why did you do the drugs that you did?

[Withnail]

i gave up all drugs 5 years ago, i have now got 2 kids, so i know what i'm talking about.i'm not trying to generalise, but MOST of the people i know who are heroin addicts were wasters when they were in school, wasters when they left school , and are still wasters now. these are not all people from deprived backgrounds,  they are from all walks of life.
i see them around all the time, none of them will get off their arse and find a job, they sit around in the local park, drinking lager,waiting for their benefits,while the rest of us go to work to earn a living.
this is not down to circumstance, it's down to self choice.

[impartial]

what because you have kids you know what your talking about? you know heroin addicts? oh im sure you know them really well. yeah, did you ever wonder why they were wasters? what if your kids are wasters? will you understand that...? what benifits man? the benifits of being in a society that perpetuates the ostrasising of them? the rest of us? your speaking for who now? yeah and self choice from a product of what environment? what does the self come from?

do you work for the sun? you have reached that brow level quite succesfully, do you drink? go keep doing that - thats a real good drug, SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE FOR ALL THOSE WORKING REAL HARD HUH...

[hooded claw]

People should be made to drink it at the pharmacy. Loads of it gets sold on. Possibly due to over prescription.

They do, down here. Subcutex (sp?) anyway.

[Withnail]

what because you have kids you know what your talking about? you know heroin addicts? oh im sure you know them really well. yeah, did you ever wonder why they were wasters? what if your kids are wasters? will you understand that...? what benifits man? the benifits of being in a society that perpetuates the ostrasising of them? the rest of us? your speaking for who now? yeah and self choice from a product of what environment? what does the self come from?

do you work for the sun? you have reached that brow level quite succesfully, do you drink? go keep doing that - thats a real good drug, SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE FOR ALL THOSE WORKING REAL HARD HUH...

1)you told me to go and have kids, i replied.
2)i was talking about benefit cheques.
3) i dont steal from my friends and whoever else to finance my stella habit.
4) i was once engaged to a heroin addict.

[impartial]

1) but you wrote "i gave up all drugs 5 years ago, i have now got 2 kids, so i know what i'm talking about."
2) i had a government job while i was on heroin,
3) who do you steal from then? the tiny brown people?
4) no wonder she left you

[ashleyrose-66]

Fellas, this seems to be just getting a bit personal now.  I can see this thread being locked, so if you are going to have a reasoned discussion, by all means, it's interesting, but don't resort to mud-slinging!

[Withnail]

1) but you wrote "i gave up all drugs 5 years ago, i have now got 2 kids, so i know what i'm talking about."
2) i had a government job while i was on heroin,
3) who do you steal from then? the tiny brown people?
4) no wonder she left you

tiny brown people ? what the fuck are you smoking ?

[impartial]

the little ones you see on the news... sorry, i excluded the little poor white people... THEM TOO! they are getting raped by us.. you know the ones that drive cars... still id be happier playing football with a pigs stomach than worrying about my kids in this dangerous woooorllld and whether or not they get a good tax break..

and yes ashley it has gotten rather too personal, but i find that this sort of thing an endemic problem in our society that needs to be purged. maybe im just all too into purging...?

[Withnail]

what the hell is going on with these boards lately ? is it national 'talk in riddles' week or something ?

[impartial]

actually withnail, i dont want to be rude to you.. i did when i wrote what i wrote, but with this 'hindsight' thing, i am showing a lack of understanding similar to yours. people saying things without ever being in a position to know really gets my goat. i have been there and have come away from it. if you were in the position i was and you came away from it saying 'all heroin users are idiots' well then i wouldnt be able to make the point that i am.

[Withnail]

actually withnail, i dont want to be rude to you.. i did when i wrote what i wrote, but with this 'hindsight' thing, i am showing a lack of understanding similar to yours. people saying things without ever being in a position to know really gets my goat. i have been there and have come away from it. if you were in the position i was and you came away from it saying 'all heroin users are idiots' well then i wouldnt be able to make the point that i am.

i never said 'all' people who take heroin are idiots.please read my post carefully.i said heroin is for idiots, and i said people who use heroin are 'usually' wasters. as i said, i try not to generalise.

[impartial]

heroin is for idiots, you know its going to fuck you up so don't even start doing it.
i have no sympathy for heroin users whatsoever, they are the cause of most petty crime, and usually they are born wasters anyway.

true, sorry i mis interpreted but the tone of what you wrote fired me up... i think the blaming users for petty crime and born wasters parts most annoyed me.. i earnt all of my drugs. its the rejection of looking any deeper and subsequently the decision to reject considering maybe if i just say nothing and dont judge, i wont create a bigger problem? because if you judge it like that, you isolate and segregate people who have been 'there' and who therefor take up a position of defence like i did...

[Withnail]

look fella, i'm not here to wind people up. everybody is entitled to their opinion, and that is all i'm doing. i am only speaking from personal experience, and my experiences are obviously different to yours.

[ewok-red]

i gave up all drugs 5 years ago, i have now got 2 kids, so i know what i'm talking about.i'm not trying to generalise, but MOST of the people i know who are heroin addicts were wasters when they were in school, wasters when they left school , and are still wasters now. these are not all people from deprived backgrounds,  they are from all walks of life.
i see them around all the time, none of them will get off their arse and find a job, they sit around in the local park, drinking lager,waiting for their benefits,while the rest of us go to work to earn a living.
this is not down to circumstance, it's down to self choice.

having any kind of addiction / condition / habit is a tough place to be as it always had to be the focal point of your existence. maybe they are not as tough as some of us as therefore their choices are limited. maybe what they need is a combination of tough love, compassion, care and support to get out of their situation.

[impartial]

exactly

[ewok-red]

exactly

...er.....exactly what?

[Thommo's Beak]

As someone that has never taken Heroine, is it possible that the dependence on the drug could be psychological and not physiological, as most people state?

You mentioned two key things for me, will power and job. Cam people hold down a regular job and still be a "heroine addict?"

I hav e read a couple of studies on heroine use and it certainly opened my mind a little.

[Roger]

As someone that has never taken Heroine, is it possible that the dependence on the drug could be psychological and not physiological, as most people state?

I interact with them all the time. A large percentage are from deprived backgrounds but a fair few come from perfectly good homes. They seem to get hooked at a very young age (15/16 is not uncommon) and it seems to happen because the drug is very easily available.

People who have been banged up get clean within a week or so but when they come out, although having no physical dependance, they end up living where they were before. With the drug still available to them. So they 'dabble' after an uncertain time of holding it off. Then they get hooked again. I see it time and time again.

There are the odd success stories- and I know several people who have kicked it for good. They come up to me all the time and I'd be quite happy to have a beer down the pub with them.

[Thommo's Beak]

Interesting stuff Roger, I find it interesting that dependance could infact be psychological and not physiological as I used to believe. I think there is a tendency for people to have a learned helplessness which is the real problem.

[NYkopite]

Some interesting info from the National Institute of Drug Abuse on the physical aspect of heroin addiction:

Physical dependence develops with higher doses of the drug. With physical dependence, the body adapts to the presence of the drug and withdrawal symptoms occur if use is reduced abruptly. Withdrawal may occur within a few hours after the last time the drug is taken. Symptoms of withdrawal include restlessness, muscle and bone pain, insomnia, diarrhea, vomiting, cold flashes with goose bumps ("cold turkey"), and leg movements. Major withdrawal symptoms peak between 24 and 48 hours after the last dose of heroin and subside after about a week. However, some people have shown persistent withdrawal signs for many months. Heroin withdrawal is never fatal to otherwise healthy adults, but it can cause death to the fetus of a pregnant addict.

At some point during continuous heroin use, a person can become addicted to the drug. Sometimes addicted individuals will endure many of the withdrawal symptoms to reduce their tolerance for the drug so that they can again experience the rush.

Physical dependence and the emergence of withdrawal symptoms were once believed to be the key features of heroin addiction. We now know this may not be the case entirely, since craving and relapse can occur weeks and months after withdrawal symptoms are long gone. We also know that patients with chronic pain who need opiates to function (sometimes over extended periods) have few if any problems leaving opiates after their pain is resolved by other means. This may be because the patient in pain is simply seeking relief of pain and not the rush sought by the addict.

http://www.nida.nih.gov/ResearchReports/Heroin/heroin3.html#long