Topic: Wheres Rafa''s new contract?

[electricghost]

I thought it might be too much to ask that the knee jerk reactions could be kept in the match thread.

[jonnygeeart]

Dont lock this

I think questions need to be asked now. After a performance like that

unfortunately there has been too many performances like that this season

[HarryLabrador]

I am a huge Rafa fan as my previous posts will testify to, but I have been of the view the last few weeks that maybe there has been so much mistrust and mis-information amoung the owners that may be Rafa should go.

Not because Rafa is a bad manager because hes not.
Not because hes been drawn into doing his negotiating in public.
Not because Rafa is unable to win us the Prem because i think he will.

But because hes been associated with this the worst period in recent LFC history.
When businesses fail sometimes the only way to move forward is to clear the decks of all staff associated with that period.

Mourinhio is the only serious candidate if you are looking for someone to provide us with success.

I know what you mean, and in fact I'm even sympathetic with what you are saying, but Rafa is not the one who is a failure for us. He has already proved he is a man of success and was winning things for us, 2 cups before H&G arrived. Think again, what have we won whilst the tumours have been owners?

You see....nothing. They have to go and whether we bring in Mourinhio or not, or Klinnsman, we are not going to win anything whilst they are here.

[guyko21]

I remember not so long ago when we were playing uefa cup football and by november were out of the running for wining the prem.

As long as we are making progress im happy, result today was frustrating but thats football.

Someone speaking sense ... Good post

[Ben_]

I remember not so long ago when we were playing uefa cup football and by november were out of the running for wining the prem.

As long as we are making progress im happy, result today was frustrating but thats football.

Rafa needs to get this contract signed, and put this whole horrible saga behind us. Again, for the second season running we have been flying high at the top and in great form until something has happened board room related. Yes, some of the blame has to lie with Rafa, but I believe everything he has done (from wanting more control over the transfers, to wanting assurances of the clubs future) has been for the benefit of the club. If he hadn't outed the American owners to what they really are, God only knows where we would end up - and yes, the last 18 months have been an embarrassing and horrible period of time, but Rafa is the man to guide us through this. We've all seen what he can do without the shit from the board room (the first half of this season), and when/if he signs his contract, the cllub will be moulded to a way he can replicate that first half of the years performance.

Of course games like today are frustrating as hell, but everyone has them. I fully expect a very apparant change in performance as soon as Rafa signs his deal, and we can move on.

[StormyDog]

But because hes been associated with this the worst period in recent LFC history.

I understand what your saying, but he's also responsible for some of the best moments we've had in the last 18 years.
He's not innocent in all this but he's had to fight fire with fire using the only weapon he's got (the fans). Remember he's not on the board.

Mourinhio is the only serious candidate if you are looking for someone to provide us with success.

This man is not fit to clean the boots of the Liverpool manager never mind BE the manager.
The man doesn't have an eye for talent he just spends a fortune and plays anti-football.
Remember that he took the Chelsea side with fantastic wingers (Robben n Duff) and sold them to buy MORE CENTRAL MID-FIELDERS and play narrow.
I can not see any mature fan support Mourinhio to have anything to do with our club.

[Ben_]

I understand what your saying, but he's also responsible for some of the best moments we've had in the last 18 years.
He's not innocent in all this but he's had to fight fire with fire using the only weapon he's got (the fans). Remember he's not on the board.

There arent many managers in world football who would decide to stay on and fight for his club and the fans when his employers went behind his back to speak to Klinsmann.  Rafa has had to fight dirty for this club and for us, and for that I am so greatful.

[StormyDog]

There arent many managers in world football who would decide to stay on and fight for his club and the fans when his employers went behind his back to speak to Klinsmann.  Rafa has had to fight dirty for this club and for us, and for that I am so greatful.

Here, here.

[west_london_red]

This man is not fit to clean the boots of the Liverpool manager never mind BE the manager.
The man doesn't have an eye for talent he just spends a fortune and plays anti-football.
Remember that he took the Chelsea side with fantastic wingers (Robben n Duff) and sold them to buy MORE CENTRAL MID-FIELDERS and play narrow.
I can not see any mature fan support Mourinhio to have anything to do with our club.

Spot on. People moan about Rafa's negative football, but seem to have forgotten how ugly the football was when Mourinihio was at Chelsea and turned him into some kind of saviour FFS.

[Coady]

Rafa needs to sign the contract quick, at this rate his star is falling and the Yanks could pull it from him.

[Gedo]

Dont lock this

I think questions need to be asked now. After a performance like that

9 off the players won in Madrid,the only 2 missing was Arbeloa (injured),Benayoun replaced by El Zahr,when we won in Madrid the players got all the credit,almost the same bunch of players lose at lowly Boro and it's the Managers fault.
The Manager baffles the shit out of me at times,but haven't said that, he can't win.

[Drewas]

9 off the players won in Madrid,the only 2 missing was Arbeloa (injured),Benayoun replaced by El Zahr,when we won in Madrid the players got all the credit,almost the same bunch of players lose at lowly Boro and it's the Managers fault.
The Manager baffles the shit out of me at times,but haven't said that, he can't win.

It amazes me that the team that performed so great in mid week can perform so poorly days later. How is it we havent beaten Middlesborough for 6 years at their place, doesnt make any sense.

[redprodigal]

What about the players? They where fuckin shite today.........

Agreed, they have got a lot of answering to do. How can players, who performed like they did in Madrid, come out and put a show on like that. It's easy to blame the manager for this, and I don't think he's blameless in the goings on in the last 12 months, but it's about time the players took their share of the blame.
Most of them didn't even look interested today. It was just like an end of season game as if we had finished in mid-table with nothing to play for, there was no bite at all.
There has been progress under Rafa and he has worked miracles considering the goings on since he arrived but there are a lot of questions to be asked. The goings on in the transfer market the last 12 months have been a disaster. Albert is a nice footballer with a great touch but has not turned out to be the player I thought we had after the first handful of games, I was hoping that Dossena would be an upgrade at left back but it turns out that Aurelio is way ahead of him in footballing terms and as we all know the Keane episode was a total disaster. None of us know what has gone on behind the scenes but we spent a lot of money on those 3 players without them improving the team and to spend that much money on 3 players is a disgrace and that should be remembered when we are trying to point the finger.
The truth is that for most of our games at Anfield this season we have been very poor, no flair going forward and stuck for ideas when we need to break teams down.
I was hoping that Babel would come into his own this year but he really doesn't have what it takes. Poor touch,  poor dribbling skills, shite left foot. The rest of the lads on the fringe aren't what we're looking for either but that's what you get when you have to work on a shoestring. That's what really pisses me off though, when you haven't got the money to buy the worlds best you have to really careful when you buy and last summer was pathetic in that respect.
I was confident about Madrid, I was confident about today but I was worried about Sunderland because of our home form. Can't believe we went out with such a whimper.

[xerxes1]

Back on thread, the answer is "in Rafas draw until the summer".

By the summer the team's performance for the season can be reflected upon, the ownership, and the financing.

Rafa may decide he has had enough, who knows? But this "horns and halos reaction to every win and defeat suits no-one.

[dannymc]

Players fault for not wanting it enough today and not being good enough, not the manager.

Although, some of the decisions again Rafa made, i.e. why play Skrtel right back when Carra has proven to be a solid fill-in there and Martin has never played their in his life.

And the usual subs malarky today.

[The Flying Pig]

There arent many managers in world football who would decide to stay on and fight for his club and the fans when his employers went behind his back to speak to Klinsmann.  Rafa has had to fight dirty for this club and for us, and for that I am so greatful.

Correct,it's not Rafa who needs to be out,it's the owners.

No way will we sustain a challenge for the league while our owners are both skint and know nothing about football,not to mention their multi-various other faults.

Rafa in,Yanks out!

[lfcmaster]

i think we will see new owners that will start from scratch with a new chief exec and manager

after 19 years without the league title i would vote for us to start from a blank piece of paper
build the new stadium and go from there

it could be that the new owners will select the new chief exec
the papers havent mentioned that yet

[xerxes1]

There arent many managers in world football who would decide to stay on and fight for his club and the fans when his employers went behind his back to speak to Klinsmann.  Rafa has had to fight dirty for this club and for us, and for that I am so greatful.

Rafa got his agent to leak the "italian Interest" as a power move to secure more funds.The Club would have been letting US down if they did not have options prepared with the Manager sabre ratling. Just perhaps the fact that they were lining up a replacement persuaded him to stay?

I am a huge Rafa fan, one of the World's top managers, who has done a fantastic job here, probably better than anyone else could have done.We are still better off with him in charge.

But genius comes with flaws. Rafa LOVES a power play.You take the package, one we are better off with, than without.

[Bob Loblaw]

Think the smart thing to do now would be to wait and see where we are at the end of the season. Wouldn't be rushing to give Rafa new one if we slip any further adrift of the eventual winners. That wouldn't be progress.

[nobluff]

WE would never be so far behind if his contract had been sorted 3 months ago, FACT.  Just look at golums contract situation and how crappy they were doing before he signed, and look how they have improved since.

[Drewas]

WE would never be so far behind if his contract had been sorted 3 months ago, FACT.  Just look at golums contract situation and how crappy they were doing before he signed, and look how they have improved since.

Players now are coming out and saying they want to know whether Rafa will be here so they can commit to the club. Judging by yesterdays performance most players are uncertain about where their future lies.

[StormyDog]

Think the smart thing to do now would be to wait and see where we are at the end of the season. Wouldn't be rushing to give Rafa new one if we slip any further adrift of the eventual winners. That wouldn't be progress.

If people really think that Rafa's contract depends on what happens in the next 3 months then they do respect what he's done over the last 3 years.
If people, of which I'm one, who thinks that Rafa deserves at least 2 years of boardroom stability before deciding on his future then they are giving him a real opportunity to show us all what he can do.

[Bob Loblaw]

If people really think that Rafa's contract depends on what happens in the next 3 months then they do respect what he's done over the last 3 years.
If people, of which I'm one, who thinks that Rafa deserves at least 2 years of boardroom stability before deciding on his future then they are giving him a real opportunity to show us all what he can do.

He's still got one year after that though. And he doesn't seem to mind asking other players to wait and see, he should do the same perhaps?? 

[shelovesyou]

He's still got one year after that though. And he doesn't seem to mind asking other players to wait and see, he should do the same perhaps??

Exactly , a very good point , The Manager needs to put his own demands on the backfoot until the summer , I still dont get what the rush is to get it sorted now this minute. Its only a matter of 2 months til the endo fo the season so why not just put all tak of it on hold and let the team worry about just the games ahead of them ? Manager being a bit self centered I feel.

[HarryLabrador]

Exactly , a very good point , The Manager needs to put his own demands on the backfoot until the summer , I still dont get what the rush is to get it sorted now this minute. Its only a matter of 2 months til the endo fo the season so why not just put all tak of it on hold and let the team worry about just the games ahead of them ? Manager being a bit self centered I feel.

The manager's demands in this case is also for the benefit of the club. As you say, it's only 2 months to the end of the season, a time during which Real Madrid could come knocking. If it isn't sorted before then I fear Rafa could quite rightly think this club does not want to progress at the rate he wants it to. And to those romantics who lust after José Mourinho, I would hazard a guess right here and now that José would not consider us so long as we still have our cashless owners.

[StormyDog]

He's still got one year after that though. And he doesn't seem to mind asking other players to wait and see, he should do the same perhaps?? 

I Don't see an issue with that in principal, but a player who's being targeted to join LFC in the summer might not want to join knowing that the manager who signed him, might not have a long term future at the club.

A Manager needs to have some kind of stability in his contract, remember the grief that Arsen Wenger had a couple of years ago when he didn't sign his contract till the last year of his current one. Every press conference had the questions about contracts, and Wenger is untouchable in the press compared to Rafa. If Rafa left it till next year to discuss his contract then every day he'd be hounded even more than he is now.

[shelovesyou]

The manager's demands in this case is also for the benefit of the club. As you say, it's only 2 months to the end of the season, a time during which Real Madrid could come knocking. If it isn't sorted before then I fear Rafa could quite rightly think this club does not want to progress at the rate he wants it to. And to those romantics who lust after José Mourinho, I would hazard a guess right here and now that José would not consider us so long as we still have our cashless owners.

Of course the club want to progress , why wouldnt they want that ?
But I see what you mean . . Its started (contract talks ) now I suppose and it should be put to bed asap , I fear it wont be but I just dont get why we cant , as a club , say " Look Rafa we want you to stay but we need to concentrate on Football , lets sort it in the summer please " , Then behind closed doors try to move forward with regard to the contract . . . It doesnt help all this speculation and its obviously affecting the team . . . And whats 2 months ? I mean does it really have to 100% be sorted right now ? What difference will it make to wait a bit ? He still got 18 months left on the current deal ! Many people in todays economic climate would give their right arm for an 18 month contract with any employer .

[manifest]

But genius comes with flaws. Rafa LOVES a power play.You take the package, one we are better off with, than without.

I agree with you, but I think that the rafa we have seen can only be understood within the context of his work environment.
 
Rafa's working reality is an ownership/board split like no other in the prem, one owner using him shamelessly to leverage his own position, the other looking for inexperienced germans to beat him with. This has made a concern that thrives on unity of purpose into an environment without the trust that such unity fosters ( I hope Shankly is ringing in your ears as an example ); and this coupled with a business model that was a understood to be a crock within a month of their purchasing the club. Further, having a chief exec who, whichever way we cut it, had for some reason routinely disappointed his managers' goals and had got locked in a draining power struggle with said manager, ( Hicks is a poisonous toad but the one thing I would grant him is that he probably knows what skills a chief exec needs and he smelt something bad there ).......

So in this kind of toxic environment, where the good of the cloob is constantly pushed into second place behind the personality competition of the main players, the language of such a competition is the power play.....the irresponsible use of power is always the consequence of lack of trust, and what is important here is that Rafa can only be responsible for the reality beneath him, ie the team.....he is powerless to affect the trust above him in the heirarchy.....so his only 'weapon' in this reality is to play guerrilla warfare with those senior to him in the heirarchy. ( an identical tactic to SOS ).....in any 'war', we can only fight with the tools available.

This, by the way, explains exactly for me why he is so adamant about who holds what power in his contract battle, for this is realistically the only leverage he has ....providing we the fans aren't stoopid enough not to support him 100% and undermine the one person in the heirarchy who genuinely has the best interests of the club at heart. As Harry Labrador says above  "The manager's demands in this case is also for the benefit of the club". I believe unequivocally that Rafa's contract negotiations are in the clubs long term interests, almost regardless of whether he stays, because, having witnessed the shambles of the past years, he is trying to create a model that will allow for a manager to be able to do his work in some kind of insulation from owners and chief execs who are squabbling.

Come a time where we are once again all backing the same horse, trust can re-emerge and the need for 'power plays' can recede, or return to the realm where they belong....to undermine our competition....mancs,Chelsea etc. We all know from our own experiences that a good boss means that we fight together, but with a bad one, we are doomed to fight each other, just as has happened to everyone connected to Liverpool since our "custodians" swallowed us. I think, by the way, that this is also my primary problem with hicks, even more than his criminal ( adjective not fact ) financial record...I think he is a 'splitter', just like his good pal bush, and that once gillett is gone, he'll always need to find the next enemy.

Govt. Health warning!

 Prospective partners beware....Hicks is bad for your health, and may cause........over to you my fellow ranters.

[zimmy]

9 off the players won in Madrid,the only 2 missing was Arbeloa (injured),Benayoun replaced by El Zahr,when we won in Madrid the players got all the credit,almost the same bunch of players lose at lowly Boro and it's the Managers fault.
The Manager baffles the shit out of me at times,but haven't said that, he can't win.

I agree with you gedo but the decision to play a left sided central defender at right back was to say the least ridiculous.
Surely it would have made sense to play jamie at right back and skirt and sammy in the middle. i was there yesterday and not one of the lads i go with could understand that logic. believe it or not Rafa's judgment is now being questioned by people who go every week and are not just internet fans. i support rafa wholeheartedly but those decisions have to be questioned.

[Antony]

Rafa should not get a 5 year contract.

[smicer07]

Rafa should not get a 5 year contract.

Agreed. I'd give him a 4 year one.

[shelovesyou]

9 off the players won in Madrid,the only 2 missing was Arbeloa (injured),Benayoun replaced by El Zahr,when we won in Madrid the players got all the credit,almost the same bunch of players lose at lowly Boro and it's the Managers fault.
The Manager baffles the shit out of me at times,but haven't said that, he can't win.

You may have a point but we didnt exactly boss the game at Madrid , we had very few chances and scored from a set piece , bad defending on Real's part allowed us that goal. Dont get me wrong a fantastic, historic result but am I the only one who wants to see some good football ?

[Antony]

Agreed. I'd give him a 4 year one.

I'd give him 2 years most.

But I forgot, Rafa hasn't done anything wrong.....

[west_london_red]

I'd give him 2 years most.

But I forgot, Rafa hasn't done anything wrong.....

But hes hasnt done anything right either.... or has he?

[Antony]

But hes hasnt done anything right either.... or has he?

Course he has.

Our reputation in Europe being one of the big things he's done right.

[Gedo]

I agree with you gedo but the decision to play a left sided central defender at right back was to say the least ridiculous.
Surely it would have made sense to play jamie at right back and skirt and sammy in the middle. i was there yesterday and not one of the lads i go with could understand that logic. believe it or not Rafa's judgment is now being questioned by people who go every week and are not just internet fans. i support rafa wholeheartedly but those decisions have to be questioned.

I agree Skrtel shouldn't have played full back,but i wouldn't call him a left sided defender.
I never heard Rafa's post match comments,i mate did,he mentioned that Rafa made a remark about Carragher being tired/Cramps and didn't have the energy levels to play full back.
It was rather play Skrtel there or a inexperienced full back up against a seasoned England International.

[PhilLFC]

I think Rafa will sign its just a matter of time, with the owners now positioning themselves now that parry will leave it might mean he will get 1 or 2 more concessions added to his contract...never know..

[Gedo]

Rafa should not get a 5 year contract.

TLW quiet Ant?

[SickBoy.no]

I agree with you gedo but the decision to play a left sided central defender at right back was to say the least ridiculous.
Surely it would have made sense to play jamie at right back and skirt and sammy in the middle. i was there yesterday and not one of the lads i go with could understand that logic. believe it or not Rafa's judgment is now being questioned by people who go every week and are not just internet fans. i support rafa wholeheartedly but those decisions have to be questioned.

Not saying it's the reason, but the only logic I can take of Skrtel playing where he did is Carra refusing to play at right back. Or a previous promise from Rafa.
Can't see Rafa careing about that, but you would never like to upset one of the important people in the squad (and I'm not talking skillwise).

[Gedo]

Not saying it's the reason, but the only logic I can take of Skrtel playing where he did is Carra refusing to play at right back. Or a previous promise from Rafa.
Can't see Rafa careing about that, but you would never like to upset one of the important people in the squad (and I'm not talking skillwise).

Carragher may have won the battle yesterday with Benitez about playing at full back,but believe me Benitez will win the War.