Author Topic: SOS Committee Elections - The Candidates (Read 11257 times)

Kahuna{=}Berger · « **Reply #80 on:** February 15, 2009, 08:35:09 pm »

Quote from: Veinticinco de Mayo on February 13, 2009, 07:42:11 pm

Was just saying VdM that although the manifests had been posted, no candidates had really come on and put their points across on here properly and in a debative kind of way up til then. Just the odd person vouching for one or the other. Reading back though, I see a few things from a few people and I suppose not all candidates are on the internet either.

Paul Gardner · « **Reply #81 on:** February 15, 2009, 10:18:48 pm »

Voting issue is a tricky one and an area where you wont please everyone. For instance at the meeting on the 1st February, information was received about Gillet being in the Crowne Plaza hotel during the meeting so no time was available to consult the whole membership by post or e-mail. Also, with their being people from the club and press being able to see news of any action, some forms of direct action require fast action with a vote in a meeting and the action following if the motion is passed. Any major issues need to be address to the whole of the membership. This may become more important over the coming years where fast action was needed in the past year.

So basically it all comes down to the time available to make the decision. If there is only one day, it can be done in a meeting. If a week it can be done online, despite some postal only people missing out. Wouldn't be an option to do postal in this time scale with members being abroad unless you adopted the delegate idea, but the delegate idea could still miss out a small minority. If you have more time available then a postal vote can then be done as with the new committee vote.

Veinticinco de Mayo · « **Reply #82 on:** February 15, 2009, 10:26:55 pm »

Hi Paul,

Would it not be the case that once the Management Committee has been elected then they have a mandate to take quite a lot of decisions without having to consult the membership. I know that I would be quite happy for them to take decisions on most things without direct consultation. It's only on the bigger issues that a vote would be needed. So for instance the decision to protest before a certain game could be taken by the committee, but a decision to change the Unions position on the owners would need to go to the membership.

Gedo · « **Reply #83 on:** February 15, 2009, 10:32:53 pm »

Quote from: Veinticinco de Mayo on February 15, 2009, 10:26:55 pm

Hi Paul,

Would it not be the case that once the Management Committee has been elected then they have a mandate to take quite a lot of decisions without having to consult the membership. I know that I would be quite happy for them to take decisions on most things without direct consultation. It's only on the bigger issues that a vote would be needed. So for instance the decision to protest before a certain game could be taken by the committee, but a decision to change the Unions position on the owners would need to go to the membership.

I agree with that,like a Ruling Executive?

west_london_red · « **Reply #84 on:** February 15, 2009, 10:33:55 pm »

Quote from: Gedo on February 15, 2009, 06:15:24 pm

But not everyone has a Computer do they.

Sorry, I wasnt very clear. There should be an opt out option when you join about recieving news letters. I just want as much of my membership fee as possible to be used for the actual union so that it can become stronger. Its a fledgling movement right now and needs to focus its resources.

Gedo · « **Reply #85 on:** February 15, 2009, 10:37:25 pm »

Quote from: west_london_red on February 15, 2009, 10:33:55 pm

Sorry, I wasnt very clear. There should be an opt out option when you join about recieving news letters. I just want as much of my membership fee as possible to be used for the actual union so that it can become stronger. Its a fledgling movement right now and needs to focus its resources.

Fair Comment.

west_london_red · « **Reply #86 on:** February 15, 2009, 10:37:36 pm »

Quote from: Veinticinco de Mayo on February 15, 2009, 10:26:55 pm

Hi Paul,

Would it not be the case that once the Management Committee has been elected then they have a mandate to take quite a lot of decisions without having to consult the membership. I know that I would be quite happy for them to take decisions on most things without direct consultation. It's only on the bigger issues that a vote would be needed. So for instance the decision to protest before a certain game could be taken by the committee, but a decision to change the Unions position on the owners would need to go to the membership.

Its got to be that way surely. Otherwise the union will be too cumbersome and beuracratic to have any affect.

fudge · « **Reply #87 on:** February 15, 2009, 10:50:38 pm »

Quote from: Gedo on February 15, 2009, 10:32:53 pm

I agree with that,like a Ruling Executive?

We can take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.

ARTHUR: Yes.
DENNIS: But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified
at a special biweekly meeting.
ARTHUR: Yes, I see.
DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: --but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more--
ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN: Order, eh -- who does he think he is?

Paul Gardner · « **Reply #88 on:** February 16, 2009, 08:53:33 am »

Quote from: Veinticinco de Mayo on February 15, 2009, 10:26:55 pm

Hi Paul,

Would it not be the case that once the Management Committee has been elected then they have a mandate to take quite a lot of decisions without having to consult the membership. I know that I would be quite happy for them to take decisions on most things without direct consultation. It's only on the bigger issues that a vote would be needed. So for instance the decision to protest before a certain game could be taken by the committee, but a decision to change the Unions position on the owners would need to go to the membership.

Completely agree with that. Said in my post 'Any major issues,' as just like one of the posters said if we were seeking a vote on every issue then it would be cumbersome and also costly. I was mainly trying to address the point made about decisions just being made in the meetings as much of the time this is the only option feasible.

yafoy · « **Reply #89 on:** February 16, 2009, 10:27:02 am »

its always going to be a lot about trust, at this stage of development of an organisation, those who started it, and those who feel they may be qualified to take it to its targets may differ, do U vote for someone you know, or someone who seems better qualified?..power corrupts, but without power the org would be unmanageable, those on the committee decide what issues are subject to member voting...and just like when electing a manager, I really feel you have to take a step in the direction of "confidence" ..

history is full of examples of power abuse, and we should not underestimate the power that a fulfilled SOS could achieve..(i hope)

there will be mistakes, because its impossible for members to know 100% what the candidates TRULY intend or their full qualification or indeed true "mentality" based on a quickly put-together "manifesto" of 200 words, and an initiative that may do things no other "UNION" has ever achieved..but SOS has to start somewhere, and whilst I may not get elected because of it, I cant see any other reasonable way to get this MUCH NEEDED Union started...

p.s. its like with Rafa, I may not understood his methods , I feel I should trust his intent, and let him get on with the job, and give him 100% support, and raise the questions at the appropriate time, and not in the middle of his "term"...

Walter Sobchak · « **Reply #90 on:** February 16, 2009, 10:41:36 am »

Quote from: Veinticinco de Mayo on February 15, 2009, 10:26:55 pm

Hi Paul,

Would it not be the case that once the Management Committee has been elected then they have a mandate to take quite a lot of decisions without having to consult the membership. I know that I would be quite happy for them to take decisions on most things without direct consultation. It's only on the bigger issues that a vote would be needed. So for instance the decision to protest before a certain game could be taken by the committee, but a decision to change the Unions position on the owners would need to go to the membership.

As Vdm says I would also have no problem with those decisions that need to be made quickly being made by an elected committee. That seems to be the most viable solution. We don’t want to lose effectiveness because we cant make snap decisions when they need to be made

Also, id like to back the point Graham/Smoth makes about representation and delegates being elected in other countries where members reside. I think its essential for members in countries like Ireland or the US or wherever it may be to feel like they’re able to contribute to the union without having to be present at meetings etc.

yafoy · « **Reply #91 on:** February 16, 2009, 09:09:14 pm »

Quote from: Walter Sobchak on February 16, 2009, 10:41:36 am

As Vdm says I would also have no problem with those decisions that need to be made quickly being made by an elected committee. That seems to be the most viable solution. We don’t want to lose effectiveness because we cant make snap decisions when they need to be made

Also, id like to back the point Graham/Smoth makes about representation and delegates being elected in other countries where members reside. I think its essential for members in countries like Ireland or the US or wherever it may be to feel like they’re able to contribute to the union without having to be present at meetings etc.

I am based on mainland Europe, and thats what I would like to do, for european-based supporters;; to make sure they are equally represented ...

4pool · « **Reply #92 on:** February 17, 2009, 01:29:08 am »

Quote from: Veinticinco de Mayo on February 15, 2009, 10:26:55 pm

Hi Paul,

Would it not be the case that once the Management Committee has been elected then they have a mandate to take quite a lot of decisions without having to consult the membership. I know that I would be quite happy for them to take decisions on most things without direct consultation. It's only on the bigger issues that a vote would be needed. So for instance the decision to protest before a certain game could be taken by the committee, but a decision to change the Unions position on the owners would need to go to the membership.

I doubt anyone believes every decision needs to be voted on by the members. It's not feasable. Something like a press release does not need membership voting.

However, there are issues with which the membership should be involved. SOS has short and long term goals. This is where members input should be used. Not necessarily a vote for every one of them but at least some input for fresh ideas. Or even stale ones.

But one of the issues with which supporters always argue about is the Loyalty program for ticketing. Whether it is the new "Belong" scheme or past versions.

Rather than SOS just complain to the club about it, SOS should draft up options for the club to look at. And this is where the members should be allowed to vote for their preference.

That would be an excellent target for SOS to choose. No doubt there will be many grumblings. Because any time something is changed, you will get that. But if SOS can demonstrate that a majority of their members agree, then there's a reason for the club to respond.

I also think that SOS should take a vote on the type of protest to have. Some want demonstrations inside Anfield. Others just outside by the Directors box. Some want protest marches. Some want half time protests. I think SOS should find out what the members want. And of course explain to the members, first, what is allowed legally along with what that entails. You just don't do one without a lot of planning, something some members do not factor into the equation.

Maybe even allow the members to pick a match to have a protest. It doesn't have to be when G&H are there. They'll get the message anyway.

Those are the type of things that members should be voting on. Imho.

larrylimestreet · « **Reply #93 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:46:02 am »

Meeting starts at 11 at the Olympia doesnt it.

Looking forward to this. All the union meetings have been a great show of Red strength.

Proud Member - Now do one, you Yankee, money-mad arsewipes

Helly · « **Reply #94 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:17:48 am »

Quote from: larrylimestreet on February 17, 2009, 08:46:02 am

Meeting starts at 11 at the Olympia doesnt it.

Looking forward to this. All the union meetings have been a great show of Red strength.

Proud Member - Now do one, you Yankee, money-mad arsewipes

11:30

Paul Gardner · « **Reply #95 on:** February 17, 2009, 11:24:35 am »

Quote from: 4pool on February 17, 2009, 01:29:08 am

I doubt anyone believes every decision needs to be voted on by the members. It's not feasable. Something like a press release does not need membership voting.

However, there are issues with which the membership should be involved. SOS has short and long term goals. This is where members input should be used. Not necessarily a vote for every one of them but at least some input for fresh ideas. Or even stale ones.

But one of the issues with which supporters always argue about is the Loyalty program for ticketing. Whether it is the new "Belong" scheme or past versions.

Rather than SOS just complain to the club about it, SOS should draft up options for the club to look at. And this is where the members should be allowed to vote for their preference.

That would be an excellent target for SOS to choose. No doubt there will be many grumblings. Because any time something is changed, you will get that. But if SOS can demonstrate that a majority of their members agree, then there's a reason for the club to respond.

I also think that SOS should take a vote on the type of protest to have. Some want demonstrations inside Anfield. Others just outside by the Directors box. Some want protest marches. Some want half time protests. I think SOS should find out what the members want. And of course explain to the members, first, what is allowed legally along with what that entails. You just don't do one without a lot of planning, something some members do not factor into the equation.

Maybe even allow the members to pick a match to have a protest. It doesn't have to be when G&H are there. They'll get the message anyway.

Those are the type of things that members should be voting on. Imho.

I think many avenues of protest have ruled themselves out for different reasons now. Don't think there will ever be any protests in the ground unless it gets really really bad. Protest Marches have been good, but you can't keep copying the same idea.

Also, with the meeting on the 1st Feb you had the decision made to protest in the main stand car park after the game at about 1.20pm. The club obviously had someone there and within the 5 hours from then till the protest they were able to prepare to keep a lot of protestors out of the main stand car park. Give them a week or two's notice and you are stopping it from being as effective unless its away from anywhere on the land owned by the club.

Loyalty with tickets has always been a problem, but I think there are other issues to be identified first with tickets including Thomas Cook, Ticket agencies, and just generally playing the numbers game. There has always been complaints with season ticket holders and fancard holders where is a Season Ticket Holder who went to no cup games more deserving of a cup final ticket than a fancard holder who went to all the cup games. Should you use season ticket serial numbers again, last seasons attendance or whatever. Everyone knows the workings of the current loyalty system now and if the owners did the job of building the new stadium it should be sufficient to maintain the workings of this. I feel if the club played the numbers game more and clamped down on unofficial tickets I think that it would become easier to obtain tickets.

yafoy · « **Reply #96 on:** February 17, 2009, 02:49:29 pm »

ALL issues of admin at LFC have to be addressed - within the targets of SOS..that even though I have been an e-season & OLSC member for many years & also joined within the latest LFC member scheme, I had to join the "general sale" queue today on line to get a ticket (for the sunderalnd match) with anyone else...I know someone who applied FOR THE FIRST time , also received a call offering him SIX tickets, the TO has been a joke since i can ever remember..no wonder touts sell tickets for several times face value up to match days...

IMO The UNION has to aim high, but will only survive & have the required muscle, if it has a strong -willed competent & experienced management team, who wont be over-awed by LFC & its board..but that really also requires BELIEF amongst supporters, and those who dont agree with SOS need to get on board and make it BE what they want...its always far too easy to moan and do nothing...

electricghost · « **Reply #97 on:** February 17, 2009, 03:10:46 pm »

Could I ask any of the candidates if they would consider including within the aims of SOS the removal of Kelvin Mackenzie from our t.v. screens, starting with the BBC? I can't recall any mention of this in the correspondence I have received from SOS, although as I have not attended any meetings I don't know if this has been discussed. This would seem to be something that I would imagine the vast majority of members would agree with and I believe we have a better chance of success with the Union involved, rather than each of us complaining repeatedly on an individual basis.

Graham Smith · « **Reply #98 on:** February 17, 2009, 03:55:41 pm »

Quote from: electricghost on February 17, 2009, 03:10:46 pm

Could I ask any of the candidates if they would consider including within the aims of SOS the removal of Kelvin Mackenzie from our t.v. screens, starting with the BBC? I can't recall any mention of this in the correspondence I have received from SOS, although as I have not attended any meetings I don't know if this has been discussed. This would seem to be something that I would imagine the vast majority of members would agree with and I believe we have a better chance of success with the Union involved, rather than each of us complaining repeatedly on an individual basis.

While agreeing with the issue about how this guy gets any airtime as an admitted liar I don't see it right at the top of the issues that the Union should be looking at.

electricghost · « **Reply #99 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:15:52 pm »

Quote from: Smoth on February 17, 2009, 03:55:41 pm

While agreeing with the issue about how this guy gets any airtime as an admitted liar I don't see it right at the top of the issues that the Union should be looking at.

Thanks for the reply. I agree that it should not be at the top of the list, but I would like to see consideration given to it going on the list.

yafoy · « **Reply #100 on:** February 18, 2009, 02:36:38 pm »

all aspects of Injustice and exposure of media lies/liars affecting LIVERPOOL & its supporters should be on the SOS agenda...its a socialist ethic!

No666 · « **Reply #101 on:** February 18, 2009, 08:07:25 pm »

If the members wish it, it should be on the list. Needs a vote, at some stage.

kingjari · « **Reply #102 on:** February 24, 2009, 06:11:05 pm »

Well in to the candidates that were elected, good luck for the next year. Do good work.

4pool · « **Reply #103 on:** March 17, 2009, 05:52:45 pm »

As the election meeting was on Feb 22nd, three weeks ago.

Any news on who won and their posts?

Nothing on the SOS website that I could see.

Graham Smith · « **Reply #104 on:** March 17, 2009, 06:39:59 pm »

Quote from: 4pool on March 17, 2009, 05:52:45 pm

As the election meeting was on Feb 22nd, three weeks ago.

Any news on who won and their posts?

Nothing on the SOS website that I could see.

The first Committee Meeting was due this Thursday (19th) but due to availabilities etc it looks like being put back a week to the 26th.

The first meeting will see particular roles appointed and no doubt the website updated with information on who is doing what.

4pool · « **Reply #105 on:** March 17, 2009, 06:53:49 pm »

Ta for that update.

Graham Smith · « **Reply #106 on:** March 17, 2009, 06:57:43 pm »

Quote from: 4pool on March 17, 2009, 06:53:49 pm

Ta for that update.

Welcome.

I am aware that there is still much activity on many fronts despite the delayed meeting. Committee members are working hard and I'm sure will report further as soon as the new Committee is set.

No666 · « **Reply #107 on:** March 17, 2009, 09:25:14 pm »

4pool! Are you a member of SoS now?! (If so, welcome!)

4pool · « **Reply #108 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:26:31 am »

Quote from: No666 on March 17, 2009, 09:25:14 pm

4pool! Are you a member of SoS now?! (If so, welcome!)

Not yet.

I might join next time over. If they'll have me.

Graham Smith · « **Reply #109 on:** March 18, 2009, 07:42:42 am »

Quote from: 4pool on March 18, 2009, 12:26:31 am

Not yet.

I might join next time over. If they'll have me.

Join online. You know it makes sense!

HarryLabrador · « **Reply #110 on:** March 18, 2009, 08:28:29 am »

Quote from: 4pool on March 18, 2009, 12:26:31 am

Not yet.

I might join next time over. If they'll have me.

Do it now 4pool, the sooner you join the better.

No666 · « **Reply #111 on:** March 18, 2009, 09:17:03 am »

If you're browsing the website, you know you want to...

Graham Smith · « **Reply #112 on:** March 18, 2009, 09:34:31 am »

Quote from: No666 on March 18, 2009, 09:17:03 am

If you're browsing the website, you know you want to...

And it's not so we can just throw you out just as soon as you join....honest.

west_london_red · « **Reply #113 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:43:53 pm »

Quote from: HarryLabrador on March 18, 2009, 08:28:29 am

Do it now 4pool, the sooner you join the better.

Quote from: No666 on March 18, 2009, 09:17:03 am

If you're browsing the website, you know you want to...

You 2 on commission or something?

4pool · « **Reply #114 on:** March 18, 2009, 05:48:15 pm »

Ahhhh bless

The reason i want to wait until i come over is to talk to a couple members of the board of SOS directly. I want to convey things in person and see how my opinions/concerns are taken.

But maybe after the new board is settled and they come out with some of their plans maybe what I want to discuss will already be in the works.

Besides my tenner isn't that important is it?

Graham Smith · « **Reply #115 on:** March 18, 2009, 06:34:20 pm »

Quote from: 4pool on March 18, 2009, 05:48:15 pm

Ahhhh bless

The reason i want to wait until i come over is to talk to a couple members of the board of SOS directly. I want to convey things in person and see how my opinions/concerns are taken.

But maybe after the new board is settled and they come out with some of their plans maybe what I want to discuss will already be in the works.

Besides my tenner isn't that important is it?

Next time you're over I'll take you for a pint.

4pool · « **Reply #116 on:** March 18, 2009, 08:08:31 pm »

Quote from: Graham Smith on March 18, 2009, 06:34:20 pm

Next time you're over I'll take you for a pint.

Will I come back though is the question. I'm not coming for the submarine races in the Mersey.

Be happy to..

larrylimestreet · « **Reply #117 on:** March 20, 2009, 08:10:33 am »

Union have been brilliant this last year.
fighting owner missuses consistently. They have been the only people willing to say
'fuck you' we dont believe your lies and we're gonna let you know.

Might've been McNasty's FC by now, but seems the tide is turning on a positive
wave lately. In no small way, the union, by voicing fan concerns loudly, have helped bring about a
positive vibe - new stadium project still withstanding.

Best tenner I spent all year

ALECTHERED · « **Reply #118 on:** March 20, 2009, 01:53:24 pm »

What happened to Neil Atkinson?

I thought he spoke well and was full of enthusiasm.

larrylimestreet · « **Reply #119 on:** March 30, 2009, 10:28:32 am »

After seeing what was happening to the Reds, it blew his mind and
he joined the Hare Krishna's.

You see him in town now and again - head shaved, in a long red gown...

Author Topic: SOS Committee Elections - The Candidates (Read 11257 times)

Helly