Topic: Rafa hits back at Souness

[TipTopKop]

To be fair, if you've watched ANY of our brilliant away performances in Europe against the big clubs over the last few years and seen the amount of praise we've been given on Sky (almost none) during that time, then surely you'd not begrude a few fans thinking some sections of the media dislike us?

I'm not begrudging anyone an opinion, they are welcome to it Paul.

We're having a shit season, ownership situation's not helping, so we're extra sensitive now, if we do the talking on the pitch and less on the microphone it will matter even less what is being said. Going after the media, pundits etc has rarely -if ever- yielded any returns.

[Cadno]

Now I skipped most of this article so it may have been brought up already, but did any one else get the impression that Sky set up this whole thing,  it seems to me having Klinsmann on as a pundit for a game where we are already out of the Cl is a thinly veiled attack on Rafa.  As soon as I saw who was punditing I didn't listen to any of the pre mid or post match stuff but I can easily guess what was said and the type of questions asked to Klinsmann.  There are plenty of pundits that Sky could have had on but to have one who is a outspoken critic of Benitez and a out of work manager who has been linked with the club just smacks of taking the piss out of LFC

[xerxes1]

Now I skipped most of this article so it may have been brought up already, but did any one else get the impression that Sky set up this whole thing, 

Yes.It's called ratings. People tune in to see if its all going to go off. It doesn't. Cue Sky making out something was said. Cue braindead outrage, cue sky executives content at how easy their job is.

[TSC]

To be fair though, as you say, Souness tends to highlight worst case scenarios whenever he's on, be it finances, players leaving because of finances, players leaving for not making the Champions League, which are all hypothetical situations that may or may not happen. Rather than actually just talk about the game he's in the studio for?

I think if that comment was levelled at say Redknapp then fair enough.  Souness wasn't led.  He was asked to comment on Liverpool and while he could've taken the 'Redknap' (and sky) way out and had a pop at Rafa he choose instead to quite rightly focus on the owners. 

It's not often there are any on sky to call it how it is.  Thankfully Souness did.  He's only saying what many of us fear.  And the fact it isn't aired enough on the likes of sky is maybe why many don't realise the seriousness of the situation.  So good on Souness.  Long may it continue.

It's been documented Souness has said a lot more over the course of the season.

You're just focussing on one days comments.

Rafa in responce would have taken on board the entire range of comments from Graeme.

Souness has said the same following Liverpool's exit a few weeks ago, again on sky, so it's not 'one game'.  Don't always agree with everything he has to say but I'm glad he spoke up about the ownership.

To be fair to Rafa, and I haven't seen Rafa's interview, he may have simply been reacting to the sky interviewer's interpretation of Souness words.  I'm sure you're aware of the way sky can twist words to make it sound as if Souness was having a go at Rafa.

If Rafa had viewed the comments from Souness then as I said before I've no idea why he reacted to them, as they weren't aimed at him. 

I'd hate to think the unthinkable - that Rafa did see the interview and in some way was defending the owners - don't even want to go there.

[Rossie]

I heard what Souness said and to me it was more him attacking the yanks than Rafa. Less I miss understood him.

What I thought as well.

[Fat Scouser]

People defending Souness, the traitor/back stabber in chief.... It's Fact. The delusion in here is neigh on complete.

[Solomon Grundy]

Oh FFS just letyt them sEay what they want, couldn't give a damn like. WE ARE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL, WEe ARE HERE TO STAY AND IF YOU DONT LIKE IT FUCK OOFF YOU SOFT SOUTHERTHEN CU NTS!!!

OhH AND I LIKE EATIN GRANNY SMITYH

[xerxes1]

People defending Souness, the traitor/back stabber in chief.... It's Fact. The delusion in here is neigh on complete.

Don't listen to us it came from the horses mouth (he,he).

[4pool]

People defending Souness, the traitor/back stabber in chief.... It's Fact. The delusion in here is neigh on complete.

that's abar it in a nutshell.

Graeme at times has said some decent things about us. But in the main he has been critical of Rafa. As though he could do a better job.

It's a bit like Andy Gray and his telestrator antics. As though he would ever be a manager. But somehow his telestrator could make a player improve so much that player would be World Footballer of the Year. He talks shite half the time.
But we all know it.

[Red_Isle_Chap]

Fucking well in Rafa.

It's about time someone stood up for our fucking club in the media, and low and behold it's got to be Rafa AGAIN. What I want to see now is something from Kenny and then from the board to back up exactly what Rafa's said. Doesn't matter if you think Souness "wasn't that bad" on wed or not, this is the tip of the fucking iceberg.

Rafa's not a fucking fool. He can see exactly what media pressure can to do managers in the past. If you let it build and build, then the fucking idiot brigade who like to call themselves fans, you know the ones who phone into 5live, who slate OUR players without any reason other than it's cool to do so, the ones who believe everything that Sky fucking sports feeds them, those fuckers, and there's far, far too many amongst our own fans. Rafa knows that once the tide fully turns against him and everyone really blieves that it's him who's not spending any money, him who hasn't built the new stadium, him who's had no injuries this season, him who's poor defending has cost us points this year, when the tide means that it's soley his fault that we haven't won the title in nearly twenty fucking years. Then all his good work, everything he's gone through and done for the club will be for nothing.

We, as fans, and this is a massive plea to everyone who goes to games (as i can't) need to get behind Rafa, almost militantly defending him and the players. We need to be 1 fucking billion percent behind the team when it steps out onto the pitch and the team needs to fucking hear it.

We as fans need to make these fucking owners realise that this is our fucking club and we will stand for them fucking it up no fucking longer!

We as fans need to make the media know that we're onto their pathetic little games and that nothing they say will make us turn on our own team.

Come on, surely enough is enough. The players clearly need to hear us, they're confidence is shot to fucking ribbons. If we help them, then perhaps they'll respond and help us. The energy has to bounce between us and the players, us and the management.

We're the catalyst, let's fucking make it happen.

[Paul JH]

as such it suits the media to pander to us, not to trash us.

I can't begin to describe just how wrong this statement is (in my paranoid opinion of course)

[Fat Scouser]

I tried to dig out some clips of Souness on the RTE panel. I couldn't find any on youtube and I can't be arsed rooting round, but if anyone can... you'll find enough evidence in them to shut this thread and maybe even some of the gobshites up.

I wouldn't hold me breath on the second option though.

[Paul JH]

I tried to dig out some clips of Souness on the RTE panel. I couldn't find any on youtube and I can't be arsed rooting round, but if anyone can... you'll find enough evidence in them to shut this thread and maybe even some of the gobshites up.

I wouldn't hold me breath on the second option though.

Shut it you, he's a legend. 

[guest]

Souness sold his story to the Sun. Case fucking closed.

[bleedsred1978]

Some of souness this week

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/1209/sounness_liverpool.html

What a load of shite...

'I fear they are in meltdown. If they don't reach the Champions League next year the best players won't want to play for Liverpool,' he said.


'That would be the first time in as long as I can remember. They are hundreds of millions of pounds in debt and they need a new stadium to keep up with the rest and just stand still.

'Every year they are dropping off the pace so they need a new stadium. If they don't get to the Champions League the banks will be knocking on the door wanting to replace the income stream that the Champions League would give them.


'All those scenarios are frightening for Liverpool supporters.


'I can't see them becoming a Leeds United because I think there will always be someone out there, whether it be a Russian or someone from the Middle East, who deep down is a big fan and would get them out of a hole - a saviour if you like.'

[xerxes1]

I tried to dig out some clips of Souness on the RTE panel. I couldn't find any on youtube and I can't be arsed rooting round, but if anyone can... you'll find enough evidence in them to shut this thread and maybe even some of the gobshites up.
I wouldn't hold me breath on the second option though.

This wasnt about the back catalogue Fat Scouser, it was about Wednesday night. Still, never let the facts get in the way, eh?

[Ste08]

Good he deserves a right of reply.  Sky getting Klinsman on for our games is a shithouse trick of the highest order. 

Didn't see what Souness said after the game but if he's slagged the two parasites off.  Fair play to him. 

[smicer07]

Great player. Bellend of a man.

[Not English but Scouse]

We have to be the most fucking precious set of supporters in the world.
An ex-manager has been critical of our current boss, big fucking deal, get over it, I don't give a shit what Souness says.

All I care about is the next game, and Sunday is a fucking huge game for us.
Stop fucking wasting your energy on some comments made by someone who managed us many years ago.

What a joke this obsession with the media is becoming on this site.

[Bronx Red]

Is Klinsmann on sky regular or was this some sinister ploy by them relating to back a couple of years ago when he was linked to us .

[bleedsred1978]

We have to be the most fucking precious set of supporters in the world.
An ex-manager has been critical of our current boss, big fucking deal, get over it, I don't give a shit what Souness says.

All I care about is the next game, and Sunday is a fucking huge game for us.
Stop fucking wasting your energy on some comments made by someone who managed us many years ago.

What a joke this obsession with the media is becoming on this site.

The obsession with the media is everywhere bud. There must be another thread to discuss the match on Sunday like.

[tony new mexico]

Souness should know all about Liverpool in meltdown, the c*nt
FA cup exits against Bristol City and Bolton.
Buying Paul Stewart and Julian Dicks..

Oh, and "Loverpool "

[muffins]

Is Klinsmann on sky regular or was this some sinister ploy by them relating to back a couple of years ago when he was linked to us .

Plot. Ploy. Conspiracy.

Sky Bastards.

[Hazell]

We have to be the most fucking precious set of supporters in the world.
An ex-manager has been critical of our current boss, big fucking deal, get over it, I don't give a shit what Souness says.

All I care about is the next game, and Sunday is a fucking huge game for us.
Stop fucking wasting your energy on some comments made by someone who managed us many years ago.

What a joke this obsession with the media is becoming on this site.

You mean people having a go at the club unfairly, whilst being factually inaccuarate? To fucking right I'm precious about it.

[bleedsred1978]

Plot. Ploy. Conspiracy.

Sky Bastards.

It is a fucking disgrace having an ex manager,a guy linked with his job on while his team are at their lowest eb since he took the club over. Sneaky Sky Bastards.

[Mutton Geoff]

OK lets break these comments down then

(What a load of shite..).  Is it?

('I fear they are in meltdown. If they don't reach the Champions League next year the best players won't want to play for Liverpool,' he said.)

If we dont qualify for the champions league next season is he wrong about the best players wanting to play in the champions league for someone else? Commonsense comment, worst case scenario but not unthinkable


('That would be the first time in as long as I can remember. They are hundreds of millions of pounds in debt and they need a new stadium to keep up with the rest and just stand still.)

Is this a criticism of Rafa or the owners? and is he spot on with these comments!

('Every year they are dropping off the pace so they need a new stadium. If they don't get to the Champions League the banks will be knocking on the door wanting to replace the income stream that the Champions League would give them.)

Again this says more about the owners ineptitude than Rafas'.


('All those scenarios are frightening for Liverpool supporters.)

Is he wrong then because it should frighten all of us, why else do we need to demonstrate to show these owners up for what they are!



('I can't see them becoming a Leeds United because I think there will always be someone out there, whether it be a Russian or someone from the Middle East, who deep down is a big fan and would get them out of a hole - a saviour if you like.')

Isnt this what we all want rid of these two idiots and get decent owners with the money to buy the players and build the new ground?

Ok so if this is on here as proof of Souness having a go at Rafa then sadly it is not a good example to use!

[tony new mexico]

You mean people having a go at the club unfairly, whilst being factually inaccuarate? To fucking right I'm precious about it.

Correct.  Souness the horrible c*nt, should know better being an ex captain at the club and all. A dream come true for Sky.

[TSC]

Some of souness this week

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/1209/sounness_liverpool.html

What a load of shite...

'I fear they are in meltdown. If they don't reach the Champions League next year the best players won't want to play for Liverpool,' he said.


'That would be the first time in as long as I can remember. They are hundreds of millions of pounds in debt and they need a new stadium to keep up with the rest and just stand still.

'Every year they are dropping off the pace so they need a new stadium. If they don't get to the Champions League the banks will be knocking on the door wanting to replace the income stream that the Champions League would give them.


'All those scenarios are frightening for Liverpool supporters.


'I can't see them becoming a Leeds United because I think there will always be someone out there, whether it be a Russian or someone from the Middle East, who deep down is a big fan and would get them out of a hole - a saviour if you like.'

And?  What is wrong with what he said here?   And where is this mythical attack on Rafa in the above? 

[Dr Cornwallis]

What sick gratification do the likes of Souness and Redknapp get out of their comments?
Or is it ALL about the money.  Mercenaries, mouths-for-hire, rent-a-twats, property of Rupert Murdoch.  What exactly do they want to happen?  It seems quite clear that they want Rafa gone, but what then?  How long do you give the next manager before HIS results or performances aren't as good as Chelsea's?  That is the crux of the problem for them, that Chelsea are so far ahead of us, because all throughout pre-season EVERY ONE of these journalists were saying that Rafa concentrates on the Champions League too much and that the Premiership should be the target.  So going out of the CL shouldn't be a factor for the critics, as it apparently never mattered to us fans in the first place....
So, we're behind Chelsea by a margin this year, but we finished ahead of them last season, no problem.  Where was the praise then?  Nah, they choose to talk about the greatness of United and Ferguson and Giggs instead of the demise of Chelsea and the brilliant season Rafa had at the helm.
Rafa is in a lose/lose situation in this country, he won't get the praise when he wins and he'll get all the flack when we don't win.
Most of me wants him to stay here forever, but an ever-growing part of me wants him to go to Real Madrid and lead them to complete dominance over Europe for the next 20 years, because that's more or less what will happen if and when he does end up going there.  And nothing will give him greater satisfaction than thumping United along the way.  Oh wait...he's already done that three times in a row.

And for people saying that the media don't have a huge say in how the Premiership is reported and commented upon...wake up.  Premiership clubs live off SKY MONEY.  BBC MONEY.  ITV MONEY.  ESPN MONEY.  If you don't play 'the media game', then you don't get respect off the media. 

[redforlife]

Saying if we don't qualify for the CL next season it'll be the first time in a long time - What prevented him from praising Rafa for getting us into it the last 5 seasons when before him we'd often struggled? Instead, focus remains on the negative, talk of players leaving etc

[xavidub]

The best reaction to this is for Rafa to say nothing at all and to spend more time with the team practicing how to defend.

[Mutton Geoff]

What sick gratification do the likes of Souness and Redknapp get out of their comments?
Or is it ALL about the money.  Mercenaries, mouths-for-hire, rent-a-twats, property of Rupert Murdoch.  What exactly do they want to happen?  It seems quite clear that they want Rafa gone, but what then?  How long do you give the next manager before HIS results or performances aren't as good as Chelsea's?  That is the crux of the problem for them, that Chelsea are so far ahead of us, because all throughout pre-season EVERY ONE of these journalists were saying that Rafa concentrates on the Champions League too much and that the Premier League should be the target.  So going out of the CL shouldn't be a factor for the critics, as it apparently never mattered to us fans in the first place....
So, we're behind Chelsea by a margin this year, but we finished ahead of them last season, no problem.  Where was the praise then?  Nah, they choose to talk about the greatness of United and Ferguson and Giggs instead of the demise of Chelsea and the brilliant season Rafa had at the helm.
Rafa is in a lose/lose situation in this country, he won't get the praise when he wins and he'll get all the flack when we don't win.
Most of me wants him to stay here forever, but an ever-growing part of me wants him to go to Real Madrid and lead them to complete dominance over Europe for the next 20 years, because that's more or less what will happen if and when he does end up going there.  And nothing will give him greater satisfaction than thumping United along the way.  Oh wait...he's already done that three times in a row.

And for people saying that the media don't have a huge say in how the Premier League is reported and commented upon...wake up.  Premier League clubs live off SKY MONEY.  BBC MONEY.  ITV MONEY.  ESPN MONEY.  If you don't play 'the media game', then you don't get respect off the media. 

Just out of interest if they are praising us are they still getting paid and still mercenaries, so long as they are honest in their views as they see it, no problem at all with that if i don't agree I just ignore it.

[kingluisgarcia]

Love it Rafa.

[Paul JH]

What a joke this obsession with the media is becoming on this site.

No worse than the people who come on and accuse others of having a media paranoia ...

I'm more worried by the people who show total apathy to ex-pro's running us down in the press (in whatever way they see fit) or using their media positions to highlight the WORST aspects of the club, while all the while ignoring the good aspects, even when a lot the things they come out with are factually incorrect and media bollocks that most sane fans would disagree with.

Then accuse people of giving a shit of having a 'media paranoia' 

[TSC]

Saying if we don't qualify for the CL next season it'll be the first time in a long time

He didn't, you misinterpreted it.  He was stating it'll be the first time in as long as he can remember that top players may not want to play for Liverpool, due to a combination of not being in the CL, and of being skint.

He may have a point.  Time will tell.

[Red_Isle_Chap]

Rafa is in a lose/lose situation in this country, he won't get the praise when he wins and he'll get all the flack when we don't win.
Most of me wants him to stay here forever, but an ever-growing part of me wants him to go to Real Madrid and lead them to complete dominance over Europe for the next 20 years, because that's more or less what will happen if and when he does end up going there.  And nothing will give him greater satisfaction than thumping United along the way.  Oh wait...he's already done that three times in a row.

Whole post was spot on Doc, but there's a huge part of me that's feeling the same way as above.

I've got nothing but respect for Rafa. Do i understand what he does? Not most of the time, because he's a top class manager and I, quite frankly, am not. He understands what this club means to the fans and wants to return us to the glory days, despite the massive, massive obstacles that are constantly in his way.

If the club and an ever growing section of our supporters continue to piss on his chips at every turn, along with the media, then I actually want him to walk away before the fucking c*nts go and spoil the memories of Istanbul and the FA cup final.

After everything that he's gone through for this club, you'd think that the fans would be willing to suffer a downturn in form with complete support for the manager and his team. But no, we get stupid c*nts who just do not fucking get it, the same stupid c*nts who booed the team when we went top of the table last year.

Makes me fucking sick.

Personally I don't see all that much wrong with what Souness said, but that doesn't let him off speaking to the scum and i've seen him on RTE as well. One comment thats not bad doesn't make up for a whole lot of wrong. As someone else said, legend of a player, bellend of a man. And as for Kilinsmann, the less said the fucking better the horrible fucking c*nt.

[kingluisgarcia]

His comments about Souness/Klinsmann's records as managers is class.

[bleedsred1978]

OK lets break these comments down then

(What a load of shite..).  Is it?

('I fear they are in meltdown. If they don't reach the Champions League next year the best players won't want to play for Liverpool,' he said.)

If we dont qualify for the champions league next season is he wrong about the best players wanting to play in the champions league for someone else? Commonsense comment, worst case scenario but not unthinkable


('That would be the first time in as long as I can remember. They are hundreds of millions of pounds in debt and they need a new stadium to keep up with the rest and just stand still.)

Is this a criticism of Rafa or the owners? and is he spot on with these comments!

('Every year they are dropping off the pace so they need a new stadium. If they don't get to the Champions League the banks will be knocking on the door wanting to replace the income stream that the Champions League would give them.)

Again this says more about the owners ineptitude than Rafas'.


('All those scenarios are frightening for Liverpool supporters.)

Is he wrong then because it should frighten all of us, why else do we need to demonstrate to show these owners up for what they are!



('I can't see them becoming a Leeds United because I think there will always be someone out there, whether it be a Russian or someone from the Middle East, who deep down is a big fan and would get them out of a hole - a saviour if you like.')

Isnt this what we all want rid of these two idiots and get decent owners with the money to buy the players and build the new ground?

Ok so if this is on here as proof of Souness having a go at Rafa then sadly it is not a good example to use!

Timing is everything though. Why would someone who is ostensibly looking caring about the club pile more pressure on talking about doomsday scenarios when they are at a low ebb. It’s opportunistic bullshit imo.

These comments,

('I fear they are in meltdown. If they don't reach the Champions League next year the best players won't want to play for Liverpool,' he said.)

If he is talking about new players coming in then fair point but he goes on to say that we have no money for players so we are not going to be in the market for too many top players. He is talking shite.

I don’t have a gripe with the jist of his argument about the owners but the club needs positivity from its ambassadors at the moment not wild speculation.

[redforlife]

TSC - Fair enough if i've read that wrong, was only going by the transcript.  Still, he's only speculating that people will want to leave, for what it's worth I couldn't see Gerrard, Torres, Carra, Reina, Yossi, Kuyt plus others leaving next summer no matter what happens this season, although again i'm speculating to a degree.  There just seems to be too much emphasis on the negatives by pundits at the moment, they live in the here and now and can't see the bigger picture, and that just plays right into Sky and the media's hands.

[Paul JH]

For anyone throwing the 'your all media paranoid and over sensitive' stuff around...

ANY fan, and I mean ANY fan, could tell you this. We played Barcelona, Inter Milan, Real Madrid etc away over the last few years. Those three games, which we WON, were on Sky TV. After each game, it wasn't our performance that was highlighted in the studio afterwards. It was the oppositions faults. Never how well WE played, just how poorly THEY played. The angle that was put on it was how poor the opposition were. After each game. Even when we hammered Madrid at home. And it's happened way more times than that too.

Ask any fan when Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd play away to a big gun in Europe, on Sky TV, and WIN, how much praise their performance gets.
That's not paranoia, it's a fact.