Topic: Should Manchester United fans be banned from Anfield and our fans from there

[Barneylfc∗]

They are doing that though. It's clear they are targetting what they see as the leaders to serve as a warning to others. Perhaps it needs greater effort. But Andy is talking about blanket bans. Everyone is banned, and that can only lead to tit for tat. Clubs need to work with police and government to solve this, not arbitrarily ban all fans.

The club has claimed to be working with those for years now.
It clearly hasn't worked.

Clubs have had to play in front of empty stadiums because of racist chanting. I'd hazard a guess that not every person in the stadium during those incidents were involved in it, but the punishment was stadium closures.

Bayern fans are banned from travelling to the Emirates because despite previous warnings and fines, they threw flares onto the pitch against Lazio.

This should be treated in exactly the same way. They've had ample opportunity to address this and sort it. Nothing has changed. So ban them until they fix it.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

They are doing that though. It's clear they are targetting what they see as the leaders to serve as a warning to others. Perhaps it needs greater effort. But Andy is talking about blanket bans. Everyone is banned, and that can only lead to tit for tat. Clubs need to work with police and government to solve this, not arbitrarily ban all fans.

I already said that I'm Ok with us not going there either.

Surely the aim at this time should be to eradicate this disgusting stuff?

The club has been working at addressing it. That has failed. The police have made some arrests. That hasn't stopped it happening.

Something drastic needs to happen or we'll still hear this shite in 20 years. Why should people who survived or people that have lost loved ones or family have to hear that shite every game?

[Kalito]

No. A handful of wankers on both sides doesn't justify labelling several thousand people with the same moniker.

A handful? FFS.

60,000 of these c*nts were singing vile disgusting shit.

You're as bad as the fucking presenters/broadcasters!

[Baby Huey]

There were arrests made by the GMP so clearly 1] they are not putting up with it 2] not every single fan is in favour of the chanting.
https://theathletic.com/5348763/2024/03/17/fa-police-tragedy-chanting-man-utd-liverpool/
And for those saying I am coming across horrendously, I don't care, I am not going to glibly label everyone a criminal just because I am upset my team lost. That's what they do on GOT.

I'm not upset that my team lost, I've seen us lose hundreds of games. I am though upset that once again survivors of Hillsborough have to listen to the bile that this and other clubs fans sing about the deaths of 97 people. Yesterday was the worst we've heard, and it triggers people. As for arresting one/two people, that'll put a dent in the singing...

[rob1966]

They are doing that though. It's clear they are targetting what they see as the leaders to serve as a warning to others. Perhaps it needs greater effort. But Andy is talking about blanket bans. Everyone is banned, and that can only lead to tit for tat. Clubs need to work with police and government to solve this, not arbitrarily ban all fans.

1 person is not the leaders, it was fucking thousands yesterday and its not just when they play us, they sing "without killing anyone" when they aren't playing us, they sing nothing but fucking songs about us, most of their merchandise on sale on the stalls is about us, more than about them, they've had "you're not playing Liverpool" chanted at them at away grounds, they're fucking pathetic as a fanbase.

The away fans who don't sing it do fuck all about the ones who do, so ban the fucking lot of them until they get their own house in order. If 1500 of ours sang Munich songs at O/T, I'd fully understand a blanket ban on ours. The PL will only do anything when the entire away end is empty at Anfield and Sky has to explain that LFC banned them due to Hillsborough songs

[DonkeyWan]

I already said that I'm Ok with us not going there either.

Surely the aim at this time should be to eradicate this disgusting stuff?

The club has been working at addressing it. That has failed. The police have made some arrests. That hasn't stopped it happening.

Something drastic needs to happen or we'll still hear this shite in 20 years. Why should people who survived or people that have lost loved ones or family have to hear that shite every game?

Well, that's fair enough. I admit that 'handful' was not helpful, but I cannot abide blanket bans, to me that is the last resort of the truly desperate. I agree it should be eradicated, I don't agree blanket bans work, that only serves to let it fester and create a blame culture.

[Crosby Nick]

Perhaps man of the people ‘Sir Jim’ could put a statement out. Not that it would make any difference.

[rob1966]

Well, that's fair enough. I admit that 'handful' was not helpful, but I cannot abide blanket bans, to me that is the last resort of the truly desperate. I agree it should be eradicated, I don't agree blanket bans work, that only serves to let it fester and create a blame culture.

Its 35 years this year that they've been singing this now, not only is it nowhere near stopping, at least two generations of supporters have been introduced to that ground and been taught and encouraged to sing the Hillsborough songs. At what point does it become truly desperate? 40 years? 45 years, 50 years?

They bring their kids up to hate us, my kids were calling "fucking Scouse bastards" by 11/12 yr olds who saw them in Liverpool shirts, that's a response that is taught and encouraged. Go into a shop in Eccles or Salford and ask for something with a Scouse accent and see the looks you get, you may as well say "I've just shagged your wife and your daughter, she was great at sucking my dick", cos the reaction is the same

[markmywords]

Perhaps man of the people ‘Sir Jim’ could put a statement out. Not that it would make any difference.

Maybe our players should mention it post match, (esp after a victory),  people are complaining about nothing being said, but our paid employees need to lead from the front, perhaps.

Many Internet fans complain about Carra, but he is the only commentator that calls it out during games as well.  This chanting needs attention

I'm not saying Jim shouldn't either

[Crosby Nick]

"I've just shagged your wife and your daughter, she was great at sucking my dick", cos the reaction is the same

Is that one and the same person?

[vblfc]

Some good points in this thread and it highlights it definitely needs relooked at. I was actually surprised it was so loud and clear yesterday. I sort of think I expected better (no idea why) 
Would be a good topic for Klopp to talk about - even (proper) United fans have grudging respect for him and his principles. It would then get proper coverage and maybe proper actions.   
It certainly needs relooked at - it’s an elephant in the room after yesterday.

[rob1966]

Is that one and the same person?

[damomad]

That yesterday sounded as loud as it has ever been. The one arrest is an absolute token gesture. I'd be all for a complete ban of them, we can maybe use the next game as the litmus test. Any on mass chanting, they're barred from Anfield next season. Repeat each season until they get the idea.

There are bans on supporters in Old Firm games and the world turns just fine. No one should have to go to a football game and be mocked about innocent dead relatives and friends.

[Jwils21]

Maybe I put this in the wrong thread

I make a very foolish mistake recently and reactivated Twitter, thinking that I could limit the amount of shite by just following the LFC journos and fanpages and blocking the usual shock jocks like Sky Sports, so I’d have an echo chamber of Liverpool content.

How wrong I was - within minutes of the final whistle a click on the trending page showed that “Victims”, “Heysel” and of course “Hillsborough” were all trending. Not just a few tweets, but enough to have them trending in the UK. All the usual shouts were there, the endless tiring debates about how “Always the Victims, it’s never your fault” excludes the most obvious situation where Liverpool fans were victims of something accused of being their fault, but it was actually about Klopp blaming the wind for a loss or something.

Then there’s the whataboutery, allegedly there were a few divvy’s in our end doing aeroplane gestures, so therefore 75% of Old Trafford singing “The Sun was right” is apparently fair game. A flare was also “thrown directly at the disabled section”, typical Liverpool scum behaviour, not just an isolated incident where one person (maybe not even intentionally) dropped a flare and it landed in the area directly below. It was intentional, the whole LFC fan base egged him on, it’s their fault.

The personal solution is to bin it, and that’s fine. But the discussions on there spew out into the real world, they form people’s opinions and beliefs, and the cycle goes on forever. Even if the club come out and start reducing away allocations, there will always be those never ending flawed arguments justifying the mocking of dead men, women and children. I don’t know what it takes to change the optics on our club and city, I don’t see how it changes, but something has to. It’s far from a few dickheads, it’s people all over the country plastering us with tired shitty cliches and it fucking stinks.

And then they wonder why we boo the anthem and won’t stand arm in arm with them cheering on England. Fuck off.

[jillcwhomever]

Let me ask you Andy, if Liverpool had won yesterday would you be calling for a blanket ban on United fans at Anfield? And I presume you would have no problems with United banning all LFC fans from their ground as well? And if Liverpool meet United at Wembley at any time in the future do they leave the ground empty?

This fixture is already dead if it's about people singing about the dead, can't you see that? I won't even be  watching the league game, if this is football I want no part of it.

[Skeeve]

A handful of wankers? Get fucked mate. Every fucking time I go there it's 75%+ of their crowd.

Have you even been there? Every fucking game. Pretty much their entire crowd.

Could hear it clearly in the pub when I was watching it yesterday.

A handful of wankers might be an accurate description for the amount of our fans doing shite like that, but no idea why some are trying to downplay the scale of it on their part when it is so many more than that.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

A handful of wankers might be an accurate description for the amount of our fans doing shite like that, but no idea why some are trying to downplay the scale of it on their part when it is so many more than that.

I'm guessing it's because that some Liverpool fans have friends/family that support Manchester United and they don't like to see that these people act like they do.

[Andy82lfc]

A handful of wankers? Get fucked mate. Every fucking time I go there it's 75%+ of their crowd.

Have you even been there? Every fucking game. Pretty much their entire crowd.

Could hear it clearly in the pub when I was watching it yesterday.

Not only that it's the entire away section, well at least 90% at a minimum, shouting the same bile when at Anfield at times they turn up.

The PL will only do anything when the entire away end is empty at Anfield and Sky has to explain that LFC banned them due to Hillsborough songs

It's the only answer at this point, tens of thousands of them chanting is never going to stop any time soon and banning them (and in turn taking the subsequent tit for tat) is the only way to get this noticed.

If there is to be another weak as piss 'collaboration' from the club then it will be incredibly disappointing.

[vblfc]

Just googled Man United chants and it seems every news outlet is covering the story and has the Prem League statement included. So it’s the right time for the club to press for action, especially before the league game in a couple of weeks. I think I’m right in saying if racists chants are used the captain can take his team off the pitch. Why not for tragedy chants?

[SingFongFC]

This fixture is already dead if it's about people singing about the dead, can't you see that? I won't even be  watching the league game, if this is football I want no part of it.

Know exactly where you’re coming from! After being there yesterday there’s no way I’m going back there in three weeks. Way I feel right now might not go back at all to be honest.

If the league game was this midweek I wouldn’t be watching it on TV either - my position might soften by time the game arrives I suppose, but I’ll certainly be watching it with no sound even if it does!

[rob1966]

Not only that it's the entire away section, well at least 90% at a minimum, shouting the same bile when at Anfield at times they turn up.

It's the only answer at this point, tens of thousands of them chanting is never going to stop any time soon and banning them (and in turn taking the subsequent tit for tat) is the only way to get this noticed.

If there is to be another weak as piss 'collaboration' from the club then it will be incredibly disappointing.

Imagine how bad that looks for the Mancs if they did ban ours

"so, why did you ban Liverpool supporters from Old Trafford?"
"Well, they banned our supporters from Anfield"
"Why?"
"Errrr, for singing songs about dead men, women and children".

They could throw the line out that we were singing about Munich, but the easy response to that is "Can you show us proof, as we can clearly hear your fans on the audio from every game we've covered against Liverpool singing their songs, but we cannot hear any chants about Munich from the Liverpool fans"

[zamagiure]

No. Just need the police and stewards to do there job.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

No. Just need the police and stewards to do there job.

I used to be a steward.

If I'm stewarding and there is literally tens of thousands of people doing something then what would you expect the stewards or police to be able to do?

The police do a great job at football matches, as do the stewards but they aren't super-men or women.

It would have to be something that the club sorted out.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

No. A handful of wankers on both sides doesn't justify labelling several thousand people with the same moniker.

They must have had the Welsh choir in then.

[Samie]

We should for a couple of seasons.

[zamagiure]

I used to be a steward.

If I'm stewarding and there is literally tens of thousands of people doing something then what would you expect the stewards or police to be able to do?

The police do a great job at football matches, as do the stewards but they aren't super-men or women.

It would have to be something that the club sorted out.

I'm not asking for them all to be arrested, if you get about ten every match that would soon make them think.

[ChrisLFCKOP]

Didn't hear it in the ground but then your in a bubble but often here it come across TV.

Had fans singing this shit as walked out the ground, had similar experience at City, its disgusting and bans or reduction in capacity would send a clear message.

[Barneylfc∗]

I'm not asking for them all to be arrested, if you get about ten every match that would soon make them think.

10 out of thousands the thousands that do it. Not really coming down hard is it?

It happens at a lot of games at Anfield from away fans. But far and away the worst is Old Trafford.

Arresting 10 people a year out of 20000+ singing the songs isn't going to eradicate it. Banning them is.

[Dench57]

nah.

[Kekule]

I used to be a steward.

If I'm stewarding and there is literally tens of thousands of people doing something then what would you expect the stewards or police to be able to do?

The police do a great job at football matches, as do the stewards but they aren't super-men or women.

It would have to be something that the club sorted out.

It’s a pity they haven’t got an ex player the fans might listen to. Someone who would normally be all over social media anytime he saw or heard something he didn’t like. Someone who calls out tv stations, the government, all kinds of institutions when they do something he thinks is out of order in attempt to draw attention to it so he can try and act all morally superior.

Someone like Gary Nev….oh! No that’s right he was too busy videoing himself shouting and gurning into his phone at full time like one of those YouTube accounts.

He obviously has no problem with it.  It makes him complicit in my eyes.

[goalrushatgoodison]

It’s a pity they haven’t got an ex player the fans might listen to. Someone who would normally be all over social media anytime he saw or heard something he didn’t like. Someone who calls out tv stations, the government, all kinds of institutions when they do something he thinks is out of order in attempt to draw attention to it so he can try and act all morally superior.

Someone like Gary Nev….oh! No that’s right he was too busy videoing himself shouting and gurning into his phone at full time like one of those YouTube accounts.

He obviously has no problem with it.  It makes him complicit in my eyes.

Excellent post.

I would add though that at the end of the day the basket of deplorables that are chanting are much worse than Neville

[Terry de Niro]

Happens with quite a few teams oppos, grant it not as much as what the Mancs do, but more than a few Everton fans over the years have come out with the "always the victims shouts" and I remember a few of them making crush actions at Anfield a few years ago.

[Pistolero]

No. A ee of wankers on both sides doesn't justify labelling several thousand people with the same moniker.

You are talking out out yer arse son.

And yes. A 100% blanket ban is the only way forward at this point ..

[Judge Red]

They sing them at games playing other opposition. It’s ingrained in loads of them. Of course there are plenty that don’t do it and a few that condemn it. Other than punishing their allocation I don’t know how else you can fix it.

[Son of Spion]

Know exactly where you’re coming from! After being there yesterday there’s no way I’m going back there in three weeks. Way I feel right now might not go back at all to be honest...

I refuse to visit and spend money in Manchester now. We've travelled to places like Bristol and Leeds to see bands we like, even though they had dates in Manchester too. We simply refuse to put any money at all into that cesspit. We don't use the airport unless we absolutely have to either.

[coolbyrne]

As someone said earlier in this thread, not every fan of clubs charged with racism are racists, but the punishment gets enforced anyway. I don't see why it can't be done against clubs with tragedy-chanting fans. Let the club play to an empty stadium, and when Sir Jim sees how much game day money he's losing, maybe a more concerted effort to weed out the guilty will be made.

[Oldmanmick]

Maybe a fullish no show by Liverpool fans at OT in 3 weeks time might catch the headlines. It would be embarrassing for their club having to answer why they themselves are not doing more to stamp it out. As it stands, it's very much a case of 'see, hear, speak, no evil' from the clubs, media, & the FA.

[redgriffin73]

Didn't hear it in the ground but then your in a bubble but often here it come across TV.

Had fans singing this shit as walked out the ground, had similar experience at City, its disgusting and bans or reduction in capacity would send a clear message.

There were two points during the game that I heard it so clearly from that flags/singing corner of the Stretford End that I looked at the clock to make a point of coming on here and mentioning it after.

38 minutes and around the hour mark. But clearly it was far more than that, those were just the two times when I thought "fucking hell, that sounds bad, even for them."

[Mister Flip Flop]

I have never heard any songs sang about Munich by large sections of our support the last few years at home anyway. I have seen lads told to shut the fuck up when they do attempt to start it though. There where thousands singing horrible shit directed at us yesterday. There is no comparison.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Maybe a fullish no show by Liverpool fans at OT in 3 weeks time might catch the headlines. It would be embarrassing for their club having to answer why they themselves are not doing more to stamp it out. As it stands, it's very much a case of 'see, hear, speak, no evil' from the clubs, media, & the FA.

Absolutely. Understandable so many want to support the team at theirs but it should be about a greater message one that the media can't ignore.

It was actually vile yesterday.