Topic: General Thread for Football Played by Women *

[kellan]

I imagine there will be another strike, and that this time it won't just be half a squad who declare themselves unavailable but rather a complete refusal from every player to go anywhere near Vilda and the rest of the men in control of the team.

Early estimates are 40 players already saying they won't accept a call up. Next match is the opening fixture of the Nations League, 22 September.

update: 56

[The North Bank]

 Crazy story this, i can’t believe people were applauding him today, none of the women in attendance did.
Mental he hasnt been sacked yet.

[oojason]

'Spain women’s football team will refuse to play until Luis Rubiales resigns':-

World Cup-winning side issue joint statement after Spanish FA chief refuses to resign for kissing Jennifer Hermoso

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/25/spain-womens-football-team-will-refuse-to-play-until-rubiales-quits





'The Spanish women’s team will not play squad matches until the federation leadership is changed, they said in a joint statement on Friday, hours after Luis Rubiales hit out at “false feminism” and a “social assassination” of his character as he vowed to stay on as head of Spain’s football federation.

The embattled head of the federation has faced fierce criticism for days as well as a Fifa investigation after he grabbed forward Jenni Hermoso by the head and planted a kiss on her lips during the Women’s World Cup final trophy presentation.

The statement published by players’ union Futpro included Hermoso’s rebuttal of Rubiales’s assertion that the kiss was consensual.

“I want to clarify that, as was seen in the images, at no time did I consent to the kiss he gave me,” Hermoso said. “I do not tolerate my word being questioned and much less the invention of words I have not said.”

The joint statement says that the World Cup champions will not return to play for the national team as long as the leadership remains in place. Along with the 23 players from the World Cup squad, the statement was signed by dozens of other female football players.'




'Jenni Hermoso says she did not consent to be kissed by Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales - as 81 players confirm they will not play for Spain's national team until he is removed from his post.

Rubiales has refused to resign after kissing forward Hermoso on the lips following Spain's Women's World Cup final win over England in Sydney.

The Spanish government started legal proceedings seeking to suspend the 46-year-old, while Fifa has also launched disciplinary proceedings.'

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66621772 (that is 81 players refusing to play for Spain... so far)

[Stockholm Syndrome]

The Spanish government are now saying they'll do what RFEF don't appear to be and will suspend Rubiales via the Tribunal Administrativo del Deporte (Administrative Court of Sport).
https://elpais.com/deportes/2023-08-25/el-gobierno-inicia-hoy-mismo-el-tramite-para-la-suspension-de-luis-rubiales.html?ssm=TW_CM

According to the linked source, it's a relatively straightforward process that could take only days and is a move he was likely expecting would happen on the back of him catching everybody by surprise. It's hard to understand what's happened here. A press conference was lined up, media all briefed that it would be related to his resignation. Even the government were given the heads-up that such was coming. There was even said to be an announcement related to his replacement. Then he gets in front of the mic and delivers a speech so unhinged it might actually be the worst bit of all that's unfolded since the final whistle.

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, UEFA do. It's been a little lost in all the talk of his job with the RFEF, but he's actually one of UEFA's vice presidents.

Doesn't a FA get banned by FIFA though if there are any political interference?

So Spanish government do that, Spain get kicked out of FIFA

[Andy82lfc]

Absolutely fucking mental this is. What fucking planet is this guy on!

He literally assaulted her and he’s walking around making shit up when there’s video of them, fucking bizarre how the power deludes them so much to think they are untouchable.

Everyone around him also seem to be just letting it play out without taking any decisive action either which screams volumes.

Bunch of c*nts, which isn’t news but still never fails to surprise the new depths they keep reaching.

[oojason]

^ https://twitter.com/leahcwilliamson/status/1695172656625041784

[Bioluminescence]

It gets worse and worse from the Spanish FA - Spanish FA will take legal action of Jennifer Hermoso 'lies'

At this point I have no words. We knew the culture was toxic but this is something else.

[[new username under construction]]

It gets worse and worse from the Spanish FA - Spanish FA will take legal action of Jennifer Hermoso 'lies'

At this point I have no words. We knew the culture was toxic but this is something else.

Wait so the government is taking action against the bloke and the FA is taking action against the Woman? So I assume every single person in the Spanish FA will have to resign if proven wrong

[Malaysian Kopite]

It gets worse and worse from the Spanish FA - Spanish FA will take legal action of Jennifer Hermoso 'lies'

At this point I have no words. We knew the culture was toxic but this is something else.

Funny coincidence


What a c*nt

[kellan]

It gets worse and worse from the Spanish FA - Spanish FA will take legal action of Jennifer Hermoso 'lies'

At this point I have no words. We knew the culture was toxic but this is something else.

I think everyone ran out of words days ago. I truly can't fathom what I'm seeing.

Like was said on the previous page by classycarra, if this was some kind of satire movie about sexism and harassment in women's football and the script had suits up in the posh seats grabbing their crotch while standing next to a queen and princess, someone would say to tone it down because it's a bit too on the nose. And that's before you even get to the parts with the same suit planting non-consensual kisses on multiple players, groping them, carrying them around the pitch, and saying he plans to marry one. No matter how satirical you wanted the movie, all of that would go way beyond the point of it feeling like it was grounded in reality. Same goes for what has come afterwards, with all the RFEF statements, and the Rubiales speech from yesterday, and how they're now being selective with frames of the footage to make claims of the roles in fact being reversed, and suing the victim. All stuff that would also be too on the nose for even Hollywood. I don't think there's a better way to put it than how Andy has said it a couple posts up thread, that it's absolutely fucking mental.

[Circa1892]

Mental to think what this guy does behind closed doors.

Needs more of the men, not just the one guy at Real Betis, to grow a pair and say they won’t play either. Ideally the likes of Barca and Madrid telling him to fuck off too - but then that’d involve those clubs not being run by creepy corrupt egotists too…

[FOOT]

I think everyone ran out of words days ago. I truly can't fathom what I'm seeing.

Like was said on the previous page by classycarra, if this was some kind of satire movie about sexism and harassment in women's football and the script had suits up in the posh seats grabbing their crotch while standing next to a queen and princess, someone would say to tone it down because it's a bit too on the nose. And that's before you even get to the parts with the same suit planting non-consensual kisses on multiple players, groping them, carrying them around the pitch, and saying he plans to marry one. No matter how satirical you wanted the movie, all of that would go way beyond the point of it feeling like it was grounded in reality. Same goes for what has come afterwards, with all the RFEF statements, and the Rubiales speech from yesterday, and how they're now being selective with frames of the footage to make claims of the roles in fact being reversed, and suing the victim. All stuff that would also be too on the nose for even Hollywood. I don't think there's a better way to put it than how Andy has said it a couple posts up thread, that it's absolutely fucking mental.

Even Sacha Baron Cohen wouldn’t be daft enough to think he could get away with writing a script that mirrored what’s actually happening.

[Red-Dread]

Haven't read the thread but I was watching the presentation in real time and remember thinking that it was only a matter of time until that smarmy fucker tried to snog one of the women - he was acting very oddly with all the other players prior to the assault, like he was struggling to contain himself

Could hardly believe what I was seeing when he held her head to kiss her on the lips, basically incapacitated her and forced her into it. Should be before a court of law nevermind a employment disciplinary hearing

[Koplass]

It gets worse and worse from the Spanish FA - Spanish FA will take legal action of Jennifer Hermoso 'lies'

At this point I have no words. We knew the culture was toxic but this is something else.

Utterly shameful.

[classycarra]

Mental to think what this guy does behind closed doors.

Needs more of the men, not just the one guy at Real Betis, to grow a pair and say they won’t play either. Ideally the likes of Barca and Madrid telling him to fuck off too - but then that’d involve those clubs not being run by creepy corrupt egotists too…

mens football's current response has been pathetic, to be frank. comes to something when FIFA are ahead of male footballers when it comes to understanding and acting on the issues here

Betis seems to have a good community to it (not just Bellerin - Borja and Isco have been outspoken too). De Gea and Casillas at least gave some passive criticism too

[12C]

Apparently FIFA have now suspended Rubiales

About bloody time

[jillcwhomever]

Early estimates are 40 players already saying they won't accept a call up. Next match is the opening fixture of the Nations League, 22 September.

update: 56

So good to see them sticking together on this, they will know they will have the backing of those who actually matter. The Spanish FA should be disbanded.

[jillcwhomever]

Miguel Delaney article on it.

https://t.co/LU0FLKK29m

[Bioluminescence]

Good move by FIFA - not only in suspending Rubiales but also in ordering him not to contact Hermoso or her close entourage. I'm glad they're showing some sort of leadership over this, finally, now it's UEFA's turn.

[Bioluminescence]

I think everyone ran out of words days ago. I truly can't fathom what I'm seeing.

Like was said on the previous page by classycarra, if this was some kind of satire movie about sexism and harassment in women's football and the script had suits up in the posh seats grabbing their crotch while standing next to a queen and princess, someone would say to tone it down because it's a bit too on the nose. And that's before you even get to the parts with the same suit planting non-consensual kisses on multiple players, groping them, carrying them around the pitch, and saying he plans to marry one. No matter how satirical you wanted the movie, all of that would go way beyond the point of it feeling like it was grounded in reality. Same goes for what has come afterwards, with all the RFEF statements, and the Rubiales speech from yesterday, and how they're now being selective with frames of the footage to make claims of the roles in fact being reversed, and suing the victim. All stuff that would also be too on the nose for even Hollywood. I don't think there's a better way to put it than how Andy has said it a couple posts up thread, that it's absolutely fucking mental.

It truly is. I thought last night's developments - the increasing support for Hermoso, Rubiales' behaviour being called out more - would mean that he'd have no choice but to step down. So to see the RFEF go after her, threatening her with legal action, was genuinely shocking. The whole organisation needs to be rebuilt from scratch because there's no way they can support women's football, and more importantly women's players, while their mindset remains so toxic and belligerent. I came across an article on Querada and how bad things were then and they've made no progress whatsoever. They now have a team that's world champion and that will probably dominate women's football for years, and they're ready to jeopardise it for what exactly? I've just seen the photos RFEF have put up to defend him and I'm really embarrassed for them. Desperate stuff.

[reddebs]

Good move by FIFA - not only in suspending Rubiales but also in ordering him not to contact Hermoso or her close entourage. I'm glad they're showing some sort of leadership over this, finally, now it's UEFA's turn.

Oh they'll come up with some limp dick excuse that the FIFA stuff takes priority so they have to wait for that to play out before doing anything themselves.

[classycarra]

Good move by FIFA - not only in suspending Rubiales but also in ordering him not to contact Hermoso or her close entourage. I'm glad they're showing some sort of leadership over this, finally, now it's UEFA's turn.

I just learned that Rubiales has a vicepredicency position on an executive committee in uefa, which might explain their indifference (although we know enough about uefa to expect even if he wasn't associated, they wouldnt care as long as they got their money)

[oojason]

'Luis Rubiales: Spain coaching staff resign over Hermoso kiss row':-

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66629505


'Spain's entire coaching staff from their World Cup win, except for manager Jorge Vilda, have resigned over the Luis Rubiales row.

Assistant managers Montse Tome, Javier Lerga and Eugenio Gonzalo Martin, along with physio Blanca Romero Moraleda and goalkeeper coach Carlos Sanchez, have all quit.

Six others involved with the national side at various age levels have also resigned.

Spanish FA president Rubiales was suspended on Saturday by Fifa after kissing forward Jenni Hermoso on the lips following the Women's World Cup final victory over England in Sydney.

In a statement, the coaching staff said: "Those named below express their firm and resounding condemnation of the conduct shown by the RFEF president.

"He offered a story that does not reflect in any way what was felt by Jenni Hermoso, who has expressly stated that she felt she was the 'victim of aggression'.

"Given the unacceptable attitudes and statements made by the president, they have made the decision to relieve themselves of their duties."'


a link to the group resignation letter (in Spanish): https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/161xjjn/jorge_vildas_coaching_staff_unanimously_resign

[classycarra]

'Luis Rubiales: Spain coaching staff resign over Hermoso kiss row':-

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66629505

excellent solidariy from all the coaches and players

that prick jorge vilda still probably doing his clapping seal act somewhere. hope this finishes his career (at the very least in the womens game)

[jillcwhomever]

Yes well done to the coaching staff, stick together and continue to pressure those arses in authority. It’s the only way.

[kellan]

The resignations today are not actually the first. There were at least five yesterday, in direct response to that unhinged Rubiales speech. All headed up the regional football federations, with some of them also holding other positions like RFEF vice president and president of the committee for women's football. So we might well get to the point where the entirety of the RFEF needs to be scrapped and reformed for no reason other than it falling apart.

Luis de la Fuente - seen yesterday sitting front row at the Rubiales speech, next to Vilda, clapping like a seal - has today released a statement of his own condemning this whole shitshow. Weirdly, it only came after the FIFA suspension. Coward.

Another statement to come today was the RFEF's latest disgrace, in response to Jenni's statement. They doubled down on their position that everything she says is a plain old lie. This came after FIFA's announcement about the Rubiales' suspension. The RFEF have since deleted it. I would like to think doing so is a sign that their communications manager has either found a moral compass or been able to wrestle some control, and that we might now see the end of these absolutely batshit ramblings. But I'm not holding my breath.

[classycarra]

Luis de la Fuente - seen yesterday sitting front row at the Rubiales speech, next to Vilda, clapping like a seal - has today released a statement of his own condemning this whole shitshow. Weirdly, it only came after the FIFA suspension. Coward.

What an absolute snide, a day after voluntarily clapping the unhinged statement railing against feminism as the villain of this episode. almost have even less respect for him that the unrepentant prick vilda who at least seems to be holding stupid stance genuinely rather than cynically acting in bad faith. very evident he's not someone who belongs in a position of leadership

his condemnation is pretty much a lie anyway - referring to rubiales recognising his fault, which he retracted, and selfishly just mark lawrenson'd a 'now lets get on with the football':

“The actions carried out by Luis Rubiales do not respect the minimum protocol that must be followed in acts of celebration, they are not appropriate for a person who was representing all of Spanish football. He has publicly recognised the inappropriateness of his behaviour."

“I want this unpleasant episode to be closed as soon as possible, for the good of Spanish football, and the competent bodies to resolve and make the pertinent decisions quickly.”

[kellan]

What an absolute snide, a day after voluntarily clapping the unhinged statement railing against feminism as the villain of this episode. almost have even less respect for him that the unrepentant prick vilda who at least seems to be holding stupid stance genuinely rather than cynically acting in bad faith. very evident he's not someone who belongs in a position of leadership

You'll never guess what...

Vilda "regrets" in a statement the "improper behavior" of Rubiales, but does not resign.
 "It is unacceptable and does not reflect at all the principles and values ​​that I defend in my life."
 "I condemn without palliatives any macho attitude".
https://twitter.com/relevo/status/1695517735269122425/history

So we now have TWO sad little men who have seen the writing on the wall after FIFA's intervention and are desperately trying to save their own skin.

Vilda’s position prior to this statement I can at least understand, he was there for the ride with Rubiales right from the start. Could even be said he got the ball rolling and that it was in fact Rubiales who had to take a position on Vilda. Either way, they were two peas in a pod before Rubiales got infront of the world's TV cameras and sexually harassed a bunch of women, it was always likely Vilda would have his back.

But de la Fuente? Absolutely no reason he couldn't have read the room - and by room I mean the world outside out of an RFEF conference hall for the past week - and seen which view he should have adopted, if the answer wasn't obvious to his morals. To bad for him he read the wrong room, at best. Plenty of others got it so right they quit. There is no excuse for him.

Every word of Vilda's bullshit:

Spoiler

" The events that have taken place since Spain won the Women's World Cup for the first time in its history and to this day have been a real nonsense and have generated an unprecedented situation, tarnishing a deserved victory for our players and our country.

I deeply regret that the victory of Spanish women's football has been harmed by the inappropriate behavior that our top manager, Luis Rubiales, has carried out up to now and that he himself has recognized.

There is no doubt that it is unacceptable and does not reflect at all the principles and values ​​that I defend in my life, in sport in general and in football in particular.

I condemn without palliatives any macho attitude, far from an advanced and developed society.

A clearly undesirable climate has been generated, far from what should have been a great celebration of Spanish sport and women's sport.

To this end, I have transferred the content of these statements to the current president of the RFEF and to the maximum leader Luis Rubiales up to now.

My work as Women's National Team Coach and Sports Director of the Women's Teams has always been oriented towards achieving sporting success, but also promoting initiatives that foster inclusion, respect and equity.

The achievement of the Women's World Championship and the successes achieved in lower categories are a reflection of the work that has been done by the Federation, which indisputably supports women's sport.

I reiterate my unwavering commitment to promoting a sport that is a model of equality and respect in our society ."

[close]

[kellan]

Andreu Camps, secretary general of the RFEF is asking UEFA to threaten to suspend the RFEF on political interference grounds - not because he's a good egg trying to force the RFEF to do the right thing, but because he wants the Spanish government to panic so much over the prospect of Spanish football crashing and burning that they stop trying to intervene over Rubiales.

I think, given Mr Camps has now raised the subject of political interference and federation suspension, that it would only be fair for UEFA to make just a threat, but emailed directly to him.

https://www.ondacero.es/deportes/futbol/andreu-camps-amenaza-gobierno-uefa-salvar-jefe-luis-rubiales_2023082864ec43655df8e30001ed7133.html?so=so&sour=twitter&cn=ondacero_es

[Ray K]

As if the story couldn't get madder

@sidlowe
Blimey. Rubiales's mum has locked herself in the local church and gone on hunger strike.

[BarryCrocker]

As if the story couldn't get madder

@sidlowe
Blimey. Rubiales's mum has locked herself in the local church and gone on hunger strike.

If that's not a hint to resign then I don't know what is. 

[classycarra]

As if the story couldn't get madder

@sidlowe
Blimey. Rubiales's mum has locked herself in the local church and gone on hunger strike.

Hahahahaha fucking hell

Not content with harming younger generations of women, he's gone up the family tree

His mum and aunt (who's doing it with her), attacking Hermoso, sounds like a real piece of work too.

[Phineus]

Apparently Spanish FA threatening to leave UEFA.

This is properly mental. UEFA’s silence is deafening here and god knows what Rubiales has on Spanish football authorities.

They’re going scorched earth, makes no sense and is grim as f*ck after gaslighting Jenni Hermoso.

Should’ve been a triumph for Spanish football and now this. Awful.

[classycarra]

Apparently Spanish FA threatening to leave UEFA.

This is properly mental. UEFA’s silence is deafening here and god knows what Rubiales has on Spanish football authorities.

They’re going scorched earth, makes no sense and is grim as f*ck after gaslighting Jenni Hermoso.

Should’ve been a triumph for Spanish football and now this. Awful.

Recommend reading the article Kellan posted (wth google translate). It explains some of the motivations to the brinkmanship thread (any reasonable body should just respond that Camps needs to stop interfering with politics and that they're preparing contingencies in case they need to throw out real/barca et al from this year's tournaments. suspect he might then  have to answer a few more calls than usual.

that article says that UEFAs director of relations with the federations, Thierry Favre, accepted an invite to that insane press conference and sat in the front row. WOuld love to see if he was a clapper.

[Malaysian Kopite]

They're really burning it all down for one creep aren't they?

[mikey_LFC]

So I was talking to a friend about this the other day and they brought up the Neville/Scholes kiss from years back and asked whether that would be interpreted in the same manner today as this has or whether there is a reason why it wouldn’t be. It stumped me really because I’m just not sure. Be interested to see what the thoughts are of people here, although I’m happy for this to be sidelined if people think it takes away from the main topic. Just thought it might be good to help people’s understanding by highlighting the distinctions in the two cases to be laid out clearly because in a side by side snapshot they can look quite similar, so people might think that they should be treated similarly / the motivation behind them might be similar. My gut tells me their different but I find it hard to articulate exactly why. Is it as simple as it being a man and a woman or is it the different positions they hold, or is it the fact Hermoso has stated it isn’t consensual, or is it the context of the Spanish squad, or maybe all of the above?

[kellan]

There's a great thread on twitter that has been doing the rounds for the last couple of days that really gets into the nitty gritty of who Rubiales is as a person and in relation to the RFEF. The info compiled likely only scratches the surface, but it does help with the understanding of not only the ways this is far bigger than his behaviour at the World Cup final but also why he wasn't fired as soon as the morning after https://twitter.com/MichaelEmilio_/status/1695531121763553400

It's also true that this goes beyond even the Rubiales era. Below is a documentary released about two years ago exposing the conditions the women's teams had to suffer going back through the period when Ignacio Quereda was manager, enabled by Rubiales' predecessor Angel Maria Villar and Jorge Vilda's dad (who is still there). Some of the players in the documentary sacrificed their careers trying to get change, and all that came of it was their teammates having to work under the Rubiales and Vilda Jr regime instead. This twitter thread has translated quotes of the key bits https://twitter.com/OmVAsports/status/1454126071994015747

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/0IlikAVSa_8&amp;ab" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/0IlikAVSa_8&amp;ab</a>

[Fortneef]

Stupid question: how would you best debunk Vilda claiming “i won the world cup, therefore i am right”

is it simply that the spanish clubs produce enough good players that a tactically adequate shithead can win things?

[mikey_LFC]

There's a great thread on twitter that has been doing the rounds for the last couple of days that really gets into the nitty gritty of who Rubiales is as a person and in relation to the RFEF. The info compiled likely only scratches the surface, but it does help with the understanding of not only the ways this is far bigger than his behaviour at the World Cup final but also why he wasn't fired as soon as the morning after https://twitter.com/MichaelEmilio_/status/1695531121763553400

It's also true that this goes beyond even the Rubiales era. Below is a documentary released about two years ago exposing the conditions the women's teams had to suffer going back through the period when Ignacio Quereda was manager, enabled by Rubiales' predecessor Angel Maria Villar and Jorge Vilda's dad (who is still there). Some of the players in the documentary sacrificed their careers trying to get change, and all that came of it was their teammates having to work under the Rubiales and Vilda Jr regime instead. This twitter thread has translated quotes of the key bits https://twitter.com/OmVAsports/status/1454126071994015747

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/0IlikAVSa_8&amp;ab" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/0IlikAVSa_8&amp;ab</a>

Thanks. That’s very informative!

[rafathegaffa83]

As if the story couldn't get madder

@sidlowe
Blimey. Rubiales's mum has locked herself in the local church and gone on hunger strike.

It's fucking mad isn't it? Imagine going on a hunger strike for this!