Author Topic: Louis Van Gaal was the Manager of Mourinho United  (Read 3899157 times)

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13840 on: September 24, 2014, 09:15:39 am »

That or i'm just a daft, optimistic twat.


See below.


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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13842 on: September 24, 2014, 09:22:08 am »

We won't win any silverware this season for sure


Always the FA cup.

Or the Sweet FA cup. :P
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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13843 on: September 24, 2014, 03:02:13 pm »
Good article/blog by Gabriele Marcotti. I like his dissection of the attacking options RvP/Rooney/Falcoa/DiMaria/Janujaz once one understands L vG's philosopheee



Making the case for Wayne Rooney's place at Manchester United

Some players loom larger than others. When it comes to Manchester United, Wayne Rooney looms largest of all.

That's for better or worse. In good times and bad, like the horrid ones United find themselves in now.

It's the only real explanation I can think of for why he's once again getting slaughtered, with some suggesting that Louis van Gaal should relegate him to the bench.

In the hours following United's 5-3 defeat at Leicester I watched a Vine that showed him shouting and haranguing his defenders, accompanied by criticism arguing that, as captain, he wasn't helping things. That he was -- a familiar turn of phrase when it comes to Rooney -- "running around like a headless chicken." That United have won just once this season with Rooney as captain.

I don't believe there is a vast media conspiracy against him. But when it comes to the punditocracy, he's low-hanging fruit -- an easy target.

Those are foolish reasons to drop Rooney. Are there valid ones?

There are if you think United are better without him. Being "better" is predicated on a combination of two factors. One, that the guy who comes in -- Juan Mata? Adnan Januzaj? Darren Fletcher with a rejigger of Angel Di Maria's position? -- is better than Rooney. And two, that the system would somehow flow better without Rooney and with whoever his replacement is on the pitch.

Everybody has their own opinion. Are any of the alternatives to Rooney "better" than he is in absolute, individual terms? I don't think so, although I can see the case for Mata and, sure, maybe one day Januzaj will surpass Rooney.

But there's a very obvious cost to dropping Rooney. Last February, he signed a contract through 2019. The size of the deal is fuzzy because it's laden with performance-related bonuses and because clubs and agents regularly give out bogus information. But whatever that number is -- reports range from $16 million a season to $24.5 million -- it's huge. Let's split the difference and call it $20 million. That means United have to pay him close to $100 million between now and when he's 34 years old.

That's a lot of money for a guy on the bench. And while I appreciate that United are a profitable club, it doesn't mean they can simply burn money forever. Not after their spending spree this past summer.

Nor is it as easy as saying that they could simply sell him. Rooney turns 29 next month. There are no more than a handful of clubs who could afford his wages, and most of them are either nonstarters for obvious reasons or, frankly, are unlikely to show any interest. Paris Saint-Germain, who were linked with him in the past -- as far as I can tell, it's a link that only existed in the minds of Rooney's people -- are now subject to transfer restrictions.

Bear in mind, this "interest" was when Rooney was playing and being productive. Shifting a bench-riding, unhappy 29-year-old on monster wages is extremely tough. Just ask Chelsea about Fernando Torres.

Then there's the fact that right now, Rooney is still United's most marketable star. Maybe that will change now that Di Maria and Radamel Falcao are on board. Maybe Phil Jones will turn into a northern Bobby Moore and Januzaj a latter-day Cristiano Ronaldo. But we're not there yet. A benched Rooney is a Rooney with a damaged brand. And while this sort of stuff shouldn't matter in the world of purists, in the Glazer world, it matters.

What about the other criteria? Fluidity and tactical balance and chemistry and all that?

Before we get into this, we need to throw out a caveat. Van Gaal is United's manager. He has his own vision of the game; it can be idiosyncratic at times, but it has served him well throughout his career. So unless your given names are Aloysius Paulus Maria and you have an office in Carrington, whatever conclusions you draw about how United should line up and with what personnel necessarily need to be modulated against Van Gaal's philosophy.

So whether it's three or four at the back, United will have some version of a front three and Di Maria will be there in some form. Plus, the approach will be possession- and movement-based.

Once you establish this, your options narrow a bit. If you put Di Maria in the front three, two out of Falcao, Rooney, Mata, Januzaj and Robin van Persie lose out. Plus, you'll need to find one more central midfielder (two more if it's a back three) to join Ander Herrera and Daley Blind. Your options there are Marouane Fellaini, Michael Carrick -- both of whom have been injured -- and Fletcher. Slim pickings all around, in my opinion, which is why you keep Di Maria in midfield.

And then a Rooney-less front three, to most, becomes either Van Persie-Falcao-Mata or Van Persie-Falcao-Januzaj. Now, you're most likely not going to ask Van Persie or Falcao to play wide, so that means either putting Mata or Januzaj in the hole or going with some kind of 4-3-2-1 Christmas tree, with Falcao or Van Persie as a second striker.

This is where, I think, you get to the crux of the issue. Falcao has played on his own up front for much of his career. Van Persie has played in a two-man strike force but has been most productive as the main centre-forward, sometimes with a second striker -- Rooney, since arriving at Old Trafford -- alongside. Neither has played in a front two with a man in the hole and no wingers, which is what a 4-3-1-2 (or, if Van Gaal reverts to the back three, 3-4-1-2) amounts to. Nor has either played in a 4-3-2-1 (or 3-4-2-1).

Sure, guys can adapt to different situations. You can work on it in training and, goodness knows, without Champions League or League Cup football, United have more time to spend on the training pitch than most. But Falcao is 28, coming off a serious knee injury and already adapting to life in a new country. And Van Persie is 31 and started less than half of United's league games last season. Are you sure it's wise to invest time and energy into reinventing these two veterans? Particularly when Van Persie will have one year left on his deal come June, and Falcao, technically, is on loan?

That doesn't mean the status quo -- Van Persie, Falcao and Rooney up front with Di Maria in midfield -- necessarily works or will work in the long term. But give Van Gaal a chance to work on it, will you?

And if you need to make a change, maybe the one who needs to be dropped isn't Rooney, but one of the two centre-forwards. Maybe alternating Van Persie or Falcao is the answer. Let them play their own game in the way they are comfortable, as the main man up front, and find some combination of Rooney, Mata and Januzaj -- or Di Maria, if you want to stiffen up the midfield and move him further up -- behind.

The fact of the matter is that Rooney is more versatile and adaptable than any other United forward. For all the criticism he took on Sunday, he still set up a goal. And he was still the guy busting a lung to get back on Leicester's fourth goal. (Watch the highlight again, if you can. Mata gives the ball away, Rooney sprints back full tilt, actually outrunning two of his teammates in the process.)

When you're a veteran star on a club of United's magnitude and when you have a huge contract, you get to be in the spotlight more than most. And you have more responsibility than most. That's just the nature of the beast, particularly when you also happen to be English and the most recognisable player on the England national team.

That's why so much of the focus is on him and why he endures so much scrutiny. But make no mistake about it, Rooney has to be part of the solution at United. Not part of the problem.

On a different club, one where different choices were made in the past 12 months, one with a different manager -- and a different chief executive -- it might well be different. But not right now and not on this United team. Van Gaal knows this, which is why, barring a sudden change in circumstances, he'll sink or swim with Rooney.
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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13844 on: September 24, 2014, 03:15:08 pm »
Worth pointing out that Simon Mignolet now has more goals for the season than Falcao.
rossiter 1 falcao 0
:lmao write that on the airplane you manc tw*ts :D
;D Excellent lads

Offline Snail

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13845 on: September 24, 2014, 03:16:11 pm »
Who are they playing tonight?

Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13846 on: September 24, 2014, 03:27:18 pm »
with themselves.
Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline Something Awful

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13847 on: September 24, 2014, 03:32:18 pm »
Who are they playing tonight?

Champions league is next week
'Despite their  cup pedigree - since they've returned to the top flight in 1962 - Everton have, after today's results, once again gone further in the FA Cup than their much vaunted neighbours. For the record it's Everton 23 Liverpool 22  and 7 ties in 52 seasons'

Offline Em5y

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13848 on: September 24, 2014, 03:35:18 pm »
Who are they playing tonight?

Resting players - very wise of Van Gaal.

Offline Titi Camara

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13849 on: September 24, 2014, 03:43:06 pm »
Who are they playing tonight?
Genuinely question (that I actually feel a bit of a dunce for asking) but why did they play in an earlier round and we didn't?

Offline kopite17

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13850 on: September 24, 2014, 03:44:05 pm »
Genuinely question (that I actually feel a bit of a dunce for asking) but why did they play in an earlier round and we didn't?

No Europe i think.

Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13851 on: September 24, 2014, 03:45:17 pm »
Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline Peabee

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13852 on: September 24, 2014, 03:48:10 pm »
Lol, its hilarious how a team with Di Maria, Rooney, Falcao, RVP, Mata, and Herrera can get out-gunned by the team with Vardy and Ulloa. I can understand if it was a smash and grab, but the game was really open and should have favored United massively with those players!

I was impressed with Ulloa and Vardy.
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Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13853 on: September 24, 2014, 03:56:53 pm »
I was impressed with Ulloa and Vardy.
As was I, but a team with £200m+ attacking talent shouldn't be getting beat by Leicester. Its hilarious  ;D

Offline REDdotONtheMAP

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13854 on: September 24, 2014, 03:59:46 pm »
Always the FA cup.

Or the Sweet FA cup. :P

I thought they have already won the world club cup or something like that in pre season?
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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13855 on: September 24, 2014, 04:06:05 pm »
No Europe i think.

That'll be it. No Europe.

Offline SP

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13856 on: September 24, 2014, 04:08:10 pm »
Genuinely question (that I actually feel a bit of a dunce for asking) but why did they play in an earlier round and we didn't?

Because they ducked out of Europe to concentrate on the League this season. It's going well for them.

Offline Peabee

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13857 on: September 24, 2014, 04:12:59 pm »
As was I, but a team with £200m+ attacking talent shouldn't be getting beat by Leicester. Its hilarious  ;D

What I should have said was, I was more impressed with that pair than Falcao and RVP.  I wonder how their salaries compare?  :o

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Offline johnny74

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13858 on: September 24, 2014, 04:35:10 pm »
Van Gaal seems to be the perfect manager for United. From what I've seen he starts slowly and thoroughly picks over the pieces with the intention of doing things properly. He is the man they should have had instead of Moyes. The man who should be given Fergie time to build the squad and learn how the EPL works. If he's given time then Utd will have no problem eventually gaining title-winning momentum. It should take a few seasons though. If it doesn't work out and he falls out with star players, or things get too desperate before they get better and he leaves the club then Utd fans should be very worried.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13859 on: September 24, 2014, 04:39:50 pm »
Van Gaal seems to be the perfect manager for United. From what I've seen he starts slowly and thoroughly picks over the pieces with the intention of doing things properly. He is the man they should have had instead of Moyes. The man who should be given Fergie time to build the squad and learn how the EPL works. If he's given time then Utd will have no problem eventually gaining title-winning momentum. It should take a few seasons though. If it doesn't work out and he falls out with star players, or things get too desperate before they get better and he leaves the club then Utd fans should be very worried.

And three of the first things that happened under him was to sign someone Moyes wanted (Herrera), sign someone Moyes wanted and apparently Van Gaal doesn't (Shaw) and whinge about being on a pre season tour.

It doesn't strike me that anyone there is the least bit interested in doing things the right way. No-one seems on the same page, or even reading the same book. He's started slowly because the club is an utter shambles right now, and nothing they've done since he arrived looks like changing that.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Offline XabiAlonsosBeard

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13861 on: September 24, 2014, 04:43:45 pm »
What's with these cringeworthy sods and planes/banners?

Just been reading that a group of foreign United fans have merged under the name United Reel and have funded a plane to fly over the El Madrigal stadium when Villarrreal host Real Madrid, with said plane flying a banner displaying a message urging Cristiano Ronaldo to "come home" to United!

Cringe! Cringe! Cringe!
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Justice for the 96.

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13863 on: September 24, 2014, 04:44:18 pm »
Van Gaal seems to be the perfect manager for United. From what I've seen he starts slowly and thoroughly picks over the pieces with the intention of doing things properly. He is the man they should have had instead of Moyes. The man who should be given Fergie time to build the squad and learn how the EPL works. If he's given time then Utd will have no problem eventually gaining title-winning momentum. It should take a few seasons though. If it doesn't work out and he falls out with star players, or things get too desperate before they get better and he leaves the club then Utd fans should be very worried.
To get Ferguson time to build would mean he is at the club for longer than he has managed at all but one club. And given how things are these days, there is no way he would be given that time.
Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13864 on: September 24, 2014, 04:46:14 pm »
To get Ferguson time to build would mean he is at the club for longer than he has managed at all but one club. And given how things are these days, there is no way he would be given that time.
Yep if he doesn't make CL then he can't stay in the job

Offline Kopenhagen

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13866 on: September 24, 2014, 04:56:17 pm »

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13867 on: September 24, 2014, 04:57:16 pm »
I'm not sure there's a team in Madeira that could afford his wages.

;D

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13868 on: September 24, 2014, 05:03:09 pm »
What I should have said was, I was more impressed with that pair than Falcao and RVP.  I wonder how their salaries compare?  :o
The difference is probably more than 10-fold.

My favourite stat of the season was Duff keeping a CS against United, when he cost Burnley £30,000 to sign, which is what Rooney earns in 17 hours  ;D

Offline Mamadou

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13869 on: September 24, 2014, 05:03:57 pm »
he is home... he's a Real fan and always wanted to play for them

who are they kidding? pathetic glory hunters. They are desperate for glory like dung beetle for elephant's poop
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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13870 on: September 24, 2014, 05:11:00 pm »
The difference is probably more than 10-fold.

Unlike the advantages of basic origami which is 2-fold :)

I see Aloysius Paulus Maria "Louis" van Gaal thinks Carrick is going to be the answer to their defensive problems !!! He is not even very good in his preferred midfield position net alone being moved to the back 4  :lmao

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Offline AB LFC

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13872 on: September 24, 2014, 05:24:56 pm »
Haha they're a pathetic lot, bunch of virgins. Like a middle-aged loser chasing his ex-wife, years after she fucked him off.


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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13875 on: September 24, 2014, 08:45:10 pm »
we should get one done, just saying 'lol'

Any idea how much are these? might as well troll someone.
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13876 on: September 24, 2014, 08:51:26 pm »
Any idea how much are these? might as well troll someone.

Probably like £500 for the bog standard.

It'd be pretty funny splash out on a proper massive top of the range one of Moyes though.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline redutdfan

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13877 on: September 24, 2014, 09:03:56 pm »
They are like us last season, except way shitter in defense  ;D ;D

I hope Sky go back to seeing them as the box office team again so we can see more embarrassing 7-5 games live on TV  :wave

Worse defence, but we have on paper a more formidable attack.

Offline 4pool

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13878 on: September 24, 2014, 09:06:54 pm »
Worse defence, but we have on paper a more formidable attack.

Oh, so that is what L vG is writing down on his pad at the match....on paper we have a formidable attack... 100 times.  :P
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Offline goalrushatgoodison

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Re: Louis Van Gaal is still the Manager of Manchester United
« Reply #13879 on: September 24, 2014, 09:07:33 pm »
Worse defence, but we have on paper a more formidable attack.

If you mean you would look more formidable if we hadn't scored over 100 goals you might have a point. Only might have mind.
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