Author Topic: Typhoid Trump: the not-smart, corrupt, coward, loser, thread  (Read 4572051 times)

Offline Corkboy

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55360 on: July 7, 2019, 01:02:37 pm »
The cockroach presidency couldn't survive that. GOP senators would vote to impeach him

Really? They didn’t after he sucked Putin off in Helsinki. I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55361 on: July 7, 2019, 01:11:52 pm »
Really? They didn’t after he sucked Putin off in Helsinki. I wouldn’t hold my breath.

No way would they want to go into 2020 with a No on impeachment on their record. Pardoning a convicted child abuser is another level in terms of baggage going into a senate election.

If he did, the dems would vote to impeach quickly in the congress and hand it to the senate before 2020.
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55362 on: July 7, 2019, 01:37:49 pm »
No way would they want to go into 2020 with a No on impeachment on their record. Pardoning a convicted child abuser is another level in terms of baggage going into a senate election.

If he did, the dems would vote to impeach quickly in the congress and hand it to the senate before 2020.

And the senate would do fuck all

Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55363 on: July 7, 2019, 02:03:31 pm »
And the senate would do fuck all

Grabbing women was allowed to be in the past and not directly connected to them. This would directly be connected to them. And would be solidly in the present.

Senators have to run statewide. They would be committing electoral suicide.
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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55364 on: July 7, 2019, 02:48:02 pm »
In an interview this morning Justin Amash said that only 15% of GOP members of Congress have read the Mueller Report.
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55365 on: July 7, 2019, 02:50:33 pm »
In an interview this morning Justin Amash said that only 15% of GOP members of Congress have read the Mueller Report.

Seems an awfully high amount. I'd have thought lower

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55366 on: July 7, 2019, 02:51:29 pm »
Grabbing women was allowed to be in the past and not directly connected to them. This would directly be connected to them. And would be solidly in the present.

Senators have to run statewide. They would be committing electoral suicide.

Nothing about Epstein allegation is new. They all voted to confirm Alex Acosta - prosecutor who gave Epstein the sweetheart deal - as Labour Secretary. The GOP doesn’t care about “electoral suicide” because the Dems haven’t made the case for impeachment, which they won’t as long as Nancy Pelosi is in charge. Trump has raped multiple women, and the allegations have made no effect on Pelosi.
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Offline BOBSCOUSE

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55367 on: July 7, 2019, 03:55:00 pm »
He just slapped big tariffs on the solar panel industry...


https://time.com/5113472/donald-trump-solar-panel-tariff/

"We have to look after our environment, the skies above us, and the tariff's I am putting in place will fix all that - these solar panels literally suck up the sun like a hoover.  Can I just say, and I told the scientists this, we should be making these solar panels more efficient but I have seen that the sun is very small in the sky and I think it will help if we move it closer to our country - I can and I will do that so help me God".
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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55368 on: July 7, 2019, 04:06:16 pm »
Nothing about Epstein allegation is new. They all voted to confirm Alex Acosta - prosecutor who gave Epstein the sweetheart deal - as Labour Secretary. The GOP doesn’t care about “electoral suicide” because the Dems haven’t made the case for impeachment, which they won’t as long as Nancy Pelosi is in charge. Trump has raped multiple women, and the allegations have made no effect on Pelosi.

Pelosi doesn't want to waste time with an impeachment circus, then go have to face the electorate with that circus eclipsing anything else. Biden put it well, "AOC won a primary" in an easy democrat seat. The Dems that flipped districts did so on healthcare and education, not impeachment. If they are going to keep the House and have a shot at the senate they should do the same.


Why is impeaching Trump not a main central issue in Dem leadership contest? Because the first 2 primaries are in purple states. iowa went Trump, NH went Clinton. South Carolina is next and it too went Trump. The election will be won on real solutions to real problems. The approval/disapproval of Trump is consistently baked in.


Child abuse is a massive game changer. It can't be pushed aside as locker talk or twisted into some kind of macho crap (deplorables), or another case of blaming the victims. Child abuse is child abuse. It's why child abusers get killed in prison.



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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55369 on: July 7, 2019, 04:07:35 pm »
"We have to look after our environment, the skies above us, and the tariff's I am putting in place will fix all that - these solar panels literally suck up the sun like a hoover.  Can I just say, and I told the scientists this, we should be making these solar panels more efficient but I have seen that the sun is very small in the sky and I think it will help if we move it closer to our country - I can and I will do that so help me God".

The crazy thing...it could be true that he said that, or it could be a joke.
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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55370 on: July 7, 2019, 04:10:31 pm »
Nothing about Epstein allegation is new. They all voted to confirm Alex Acosta - prosecutor who gave Epstein the sweetheart deal - as Labour Secretary. The GOP doesn’t care about “electoral suicide” because the Dems haven’t made the case for impeachment, which they won’t as long as Nancy Pelosi is in charge. Trump has raped multiple women, and the allegations have made no effect on Pelosi.

Another take on impeachment from Joe Lockhart, Bill Clinton's Press Sec during his impeachment:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/22/opinion/theres-a-bigger-prize-than-impeachment.html

« Last Edit: July 7, 2019, 04:12:24 pm by Giono »
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55371 on: July 7, 2019, 04:21:21 pm »
Nothing about Epstein allegation is new. They all voted to confirm Alex Acosta - prosecutor who gave Epstein the sweetheart deal - as Labour Secretary. The GOP doesn’t care about “electoral suicide” because the Dems haven’t made the case for impeachment, which they won’t as long as Nancy Pelosi is in charge. Trump has raped multiple women, and the allegations have made no effect on Pelosi.

Pelosi knows the Senate won’t convict, and trump will be able to claim exoneration.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55372 on: July 7, 2019, 05:43:22 pm »
John Oliver made the case for impeachment a few weeks back.  Not sure the video is still around on youtube but I'd definitely recommend watching it.  There's also a lot of "rebuttal" videos that have been made in response to it, so he's clearly caused a backlash on the issue.

It's political practicality v morality.  Pelosi is being pragmatic; plus I suspect Trump is trying to goad her into impeachment because, even though he can't actually get anything done, he's otherwise politically invulnerable as long as he has the Senate in his pocket.  Trump's being playing the victim card ever since he took office, and probably long before that too.

John thinks impeachment should happen, largely because he believes a dangerous precedent is being set; it will bring all the separate investigations under one roof, and make it much more difficult for Trump's cronies to refuse to cooperate, stall over documents, flat out refuse to attend hearings and subpoenas etc.  Basically it takes the whole circus and makes it serious, with the threat of serious consequences.

And whilst many in here - myself included - think it's very unlikely the Senate will ever secure the votes necessary for a conviction, dragging this whole thing into the spotlight will impale any number of GOP senators onto the horns of a dilemma, especially the ones defending seats in 2020.  If more and more allegations continue to spill out about Trump and the people he associates with, it will become progressively more difficult to write blank check support. 

Of course it would take something monumental for a conviction, but securing a majority vote would be extremely damaging; and this is as much about undermining McConnell's grip on power as it is torpedoing Trump.  The only issue is that, this close to an election, impeachment WOULD become a political sideshow.  I am definitely leaning in that direction now though.  Evil must be opposed, even if the law cannot guarantee victory.
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Offline jambutty

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55373 on: July 7, 2019, 07:34:44 pm »
Pelosi knows the Senate won’t convict, and trump will be able to claim exoneration.

This.

Pelosi knows the Senate won’t convict, and trump will be able to claim exoneration.

And this.

Pelosi knows the Senate won’t convict, and trump will be able to claim exoneration.

Rinse.  Repeat.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55374 on: July 7, 2019, 07:50:16 pm »
This.

And this.

Rinse.  Repeat.
I think/fear though, history will not be very kind if the Democrats fail to hold Impeachment hearings and Trump largely gets away with this. I think there is a constitutional duty for congress to act in a case like this. Failure to do so does set a bad example/precedent. My fear is that history will view the Democrats as having played games/politics at a time when they should have performed their duty. I accept the counter argument as having weight, and that Pelosy is an experienced and adept political operator. But, but...

Hopefully Pelosy's tactics will pay off, Trump loses the election (and takes down the GOP with him), and he, his family and inner circle are all end up in jail. I hope.
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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55375 on: July 7, 2019, 08:14:35 pm »
How will history judge the GOP-lead committees that brushed off all the russia stuff directly after the election? How will history judge Mitch McConnell? How will history judge all the folks in this whitehouse from Sanders to Barr?


That judgement started in 2018.
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55376 on: July 7, 2019, 08:16:39 pm »
How will history judge the GOP-lead committees that brushed off all the russia stuff directly after the election? How will history judge Mitch McConnell? How will history judge all the folks in this whitehouse from Sanders to Barr?

Same way Dubya and Cheney got judged. Their own side think they were fine. If a third of Americans can be fooled now, they can be fooled later.

Offline Buggy Eyes Alfredo

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55377 on: July 7, 2019, 08:37:52 pm »

    :lmao

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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55379 on: July 7, 2019, 10:09:37 pm »
I think/fear though, history will not be very kind if the Democrats fail to hold Impeachment hearings and Trump largely gets away with this. I think there is a constitutional duty for congress to act in a case like this. Failure to do so does set a bad example/precedent. My fear is that history will view the Democrats as having played games/politics at a time when they should have performed their duty. I accept the counter argument as having weight, and that Pelosy is an experienced and adept political operator. But, but...

Hopefully Pelosy's tactics will pay off, Trump loses the election (and takes down the GOP with him), and he, his family and inner circle are all end up in jail. I hope.

Most of Trump's criminal acts just before and since entering office have an expiry of somewhere between January and July 2021.  If he loses the election he will be royally screwed.  It will be "interesting" to see how he will respond to an election loss and whether Michael Cohen is right about him not going quietly.

If he wins the election, Pelosi should immediately launch impeachment proceedings against him.  At the very least there could be a Democrat majority in the Senate by then, and even if not enough to secure a conviction it will be enough to absolutely cripple Trump, both politically and with the investigations.

From google:

Quote
There are 34 seats up in 2020 - including a special election in Arizona - of which 22 are held by the GOP.

Democrats will need to gain 3 or 4 seats to take control.
« Last Edit: July 7, 2019, 10:12:39 pm by Red Berry »
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55380 on: July 7, 2019, 10:33:36 pm »
Most of Trump's criminal acts just before and since entering office have an expiry of somewhere between January and July 2021.  If he loses the election he will be royally screwed.  It will be "interesting" to see how he will respond to an election loss and whether Michael Cohen is right about him not going quietly.

If he wins the election, Pelosi should immediately launch impeachment proceedings against him.  At the very least there could be a Democrat majority in the Senate by then, and even if not enough to secure a conviction it will be enough to absolutely cripple Trump, both politically and with the investigations.

Not necessarily: Equitable Tolling and the Prosecution of a President

Potentially, he could be prosecuted even after two terms. But, I really would not like to see it tested. Besides, we need this done before his heart gives out.
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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55381 on: July 7, 2019, 11:24:16 pm »
Most of Trump's criminal acts just before and since entering office have an expiry of somewhere between January and July 2021.  If he loses the election he will be royally screwed.  It will be "interesting" to see how he will respond to an election loss and whether Michael Cohen is right about him not going quietly.

If he wins the election, Pelosi should immediately launch impeachment proceedings against him.  At the very least there could be a Democrat majority in the Senate by then, and even if not enough to secure a conviction it will be enough to absolutely cripple Trump, both politically and with the investigations.

From google:


Interesting Senate stat.

The Dems should be out to flip some with the tease that they need the senate to impeach. And they need the senate to undo the damage.


And initiate Senate committe investigations.
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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55382 on: July 7, 2019, 11:25:54 pm »
Not necessarily: Equitable Tolling and the Prosecution of a President

Potentially, he could be prosecuted even after two terms. But, I really would not like to see it tested. Besides, we need this done before his heart gives out.

He'll drag it out in the courts...an election loss is the best way.
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Offline jambutty

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55383 on: July 8, 2019, 03:47:20 am »
POLITICO
Trump wants to talk. Iran isn’t interested.
 By Nahal Toosi 
3 hrs ago


President Donald Trump wants to sit down with Iranian leaders — but they don’t share his eagerness to talk, revealing the limits of the president’s personal diplomatic overtures.

While another adversary, North Korea, has come to the table for one-on-ones with Trump, Tehran on Sunday responded to Trump’s combination of pleas and economic sanctions with provocation.

Iranian officials said they would, within hours, start enriching uranium above the limits set under a 2015 international nuclear deal, the latest in a series of potentially fatal stab-wounds in the agreement. They also said Iran would keep reducing its compliance with the deal every 60 days unless world powers shield it from the sanctions that Trump reimposed after quitting the agreement last year.

“We are fully prepared to enrich uranium at any level and with any amount,” said Behrouz Kamalvandi, spokesman for Iran’s Atomic Energy Organization, according to media reports.

It’s an approach that has left the two countries at risk of an eventual military confrontation.

But Iran’s moves are a calculated gamble, officials and analysts said — an attempt to both rebuke Trump and pressure European leaders, who are trying to salvage the nuclear deal, to stand up to the United States. The Iranians also may be betting that Trump, who has shown little appetite for war, will fold first, lifting sanctions in exchange for talks.

Iran is “testing limits to gauge the response of the U.S. and the other key stakeholders,” said Suzanne Maloney, an Iran scholar at the Brookings Institution. “It's a very effective way to try to read a mercurial U.S. administration and inject some greater urgency among the other parties to the deal.”

A U.S. official familiar with the issue told POLITICO on Sunday that the Trump team hopes for three things: that Europe imposes some sanctions on Iran to keep it from further violating the deal; that a financial mechanism the Europeans have set up to help Iran obtain non-sanctioned goods succeeds; and that recent U.S. military maneuvers in the Middle East are enough to deter Iran from further military escalation.

“Fundamentally, we want them to stay in the deal,” the U.S. official said, when asked why the Trump administration wants the European financial mechanism, known as INSTEX, to work. There’s no desire to engage in an all-out war with Iran or see it build a nuclear weapon, the official said.

Both Iran and North Korea have faced Trump’s fury over their nuclear programs, including his imposition of severe sanctions. But while North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un, who already possesses nuclear weapons, has accepted talks, Iran’s Islamist rulers, who lack nukes, remain unwilling to talk to Trump.

The reasons are many. Iran has an anti-U.S. ideology forged during a revolution 40 years ago — its leaders rarely respond well to insults and threats from a country they call the “Great Satan.” And unlike North Korea, where Kim rules with an iron fist, Iran has competing political power centers, even if Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei technically has the final say.

Additionally, Tehran is still smarting from Trump’s decision to pull the U.S. out of the 2015 nuclear deal. There’s also lingering suspicion in Tehran that the Trump administration really wants to oust the Iranian regime — not just change its behavior.

Kim, on the other hand, may see more use in talking to Trump than goading him, even if the pair traded heated rhetorical barbs in 2017. The 30-something dictator may be willing to try the negotiations route because he already has built a nuclear arsenal and is less worried about a U.S. attack.

Kim’s goal, some analysts say, is to improve his country’s economy, and bolster his rule, by convincing Trump to remove sanctions. Kim may be betting that he can convince Trump to at least offer some sanctions relief for limited nuclear-related promises on his part.

Iran, meanwhile, insists it has no desire to build a nuclear weapon. The oil-rich country has always said its nuclear program is for peaceful purposes, such as generating energy. But there’s always the possibility that Trump’s willingness to sit down with Kim could lead Iran to decide that it needs to have a nuclear weapon for more long-term leverage.

Any such move by Iran, however, could have immediate consequences, including spurring a new Middle East war or a nuclear arms race. U.S. allies in the Middle East — notably Israel, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates — are loathe to see Iran become a nuclear state. Israel has even suggested in the past it would launch a preventive strike to keep Iran from developing a nuclear weapon.

The possibility of a military confrontation is already high in the Middle East following a series of attacks on international oil tankers that the U.S. has blamed on Iran. The U.S. has sent hundreds more troops to the region as a hedge against Tehran.

To some Iran watchers, Tehran is erring by not talking to Trump now.

“Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei would be smart to follow Kim’s approach,” said Mark Dubowitz of the hawkish Foundation for Defense of Democracies, which generally supports Trump’s tough policies toward Iran. “The deal of the century could await him if he put aside decades of anti-Americanism and met Trump at a summit.”

But to others, Iran’s reticence is predictable. “You can’t overcome some aspects of the revolutionary ideology still in Iran today,” Maloney said. Unlike North Korea’s Kim, “Iranians complicate their own path by being incapable of that kind of heroic flexibility.”

In any case, comparisons between the two countries can only go so far. “They’re suis generis. They’re extremely different,” a former top Obama administration official said. “They do watch each other, though, they do.”

Trump has repeatedly made it clear that he would rather talk to Iran than fight.

He called off a military strike on Iran at the last minute last month after it shot down a U.S. drone, has promised the country economic riches if it bends to his demands and has quite literally urged Iran to “call me.” The president and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo have even said the U.S. is willing to talk to Iran without any pre-conditions.

It’s also clear that Trump worries that a war with Iran would hurt him with his Republican electoral base during the 2020 election. He ran for office promising to pull the U.S. out of Middle East entanglements.

But as he often does, Trump has undermined himself by being inconsistent. He has threatened to “obliterate” Iran, beefed up America’s troop presence in the Middle East and sanctioned Khamenei. The Trump administration has also threatened to sanction Iran’s foreign minister, a move that would further undermine a shot at diplomacy.

Last week, as it became clear Iran would move toward greater enrichment of uranium, Trump tweeted: “Be careful with the threats, Iran. They can come back to bite you like nobody has been bitten before!"

Trump has said the 2015 nuclear deal wasn’t long-lasting enough and that it should have covered Iran’s many troubling non-nuclear activities. In recent months, however, he’s further confused the situation by saying he simply wants Iran to give up any path to nuclear weapons. At other times, he has said he also wants Iran to stop funding “terror” groups.

Khamenei, the Iranian supreme leader, has repeatedly dismissed the possibility of talking to Trump. The country’s foreign minister, Javad Zarif, recently said Iran won’t bow to threats from anyone.

“We will not give in to international pressure and along with the people of the world,” he said, according to media reports. “We will make them talk to the people of Iran with language of respect and never threaten an Iranian.”

Trump initially pursued a tough approach with North Korea before turning to personal diplomacy. He threatened Kim with “fire and fury,” heaped sanctions on his regime and boasted that his nuclear button was “bigger” than the autocrat’s. Kim responded with insults, too, calling Trump a “dotard.”

Eventually, however, Kim and Trump met and have since showered each other with praise. At their first summit, in 2018 in Singapore, the pair signed a vague joint declaration saying they were committed to the path of denuclearization.

A second summit, in Vietnam earlier this year, ended early as neither side would agree to the other’s terms for a more substantive nuclear agreement. The two met in late June at the Demilitarized Zone that separates North and South Korea.

It’s too soon to tell if the diplomacy at the DMZ will jump-start the stalled nuclear negotiations, and to date Kim has taken no serious step toward reducing his nuclear arsenal. But if Kim walks away with a good deal, Iranian leaders may reconsider talking to Trump.

The odds are, though, that Iran’s government would prefer to wait, hoping that Trump will not get re-elected in 2020. It would be easier for Khamenei to agree to talk with a new U.S. president than deal with a man who tore up the last deal the Iranian leader struck with America.

Given the damage done to the Iranian economy by Trump-imposed sanctions, however, Iran may have little choice but to talk to him if he is reelected. Still, the Iranians may insist that the U.S. offer some sort of limited concession before negotiations can take place, such as partial sanctions relief.

"To risk meeting Trump now while being pretty sure nothing substantive would come of it is to make yourself look small at home in front of your own people when you have said this man is not worth talking to," said Alex Vatanka, an Iran specialist and senior fellow with the Middle East Institute.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-wants-to-talk-iran-isnt-interested/ar-AADZaHC?ocid=spartanntp
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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55384 on: July 8, 2019, 07:01:23 am »
A great overview of the older Epstein charges, Acosta, and Epstein's connections.


https://www.vox.com/2018/12/3/18116351/jeffrey-epstein-trump-clinton-labor-secretary-acosta


Turns out too that William Barr's father Donald Barr hired Epstein as a math teacher for his private scoll for the rich when Epstein was a 20year old university drop out...


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Offline KillieRed

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55385 on: July 8, 2019, 08:23:31 am »
He'll drag it out in the courts...an election loss is the best way.

If he loses the election won`t he just resign before the inauguration of the next president?

This would allow Pence to pardon him...always assuming he doesnt test the self-pardon waters.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55386 on: July 8, 2019, 08:30:25 am »
If he loses the election won`t he just resign before the inauguration of the next president?

This would allow Pence to pardon him...always assuming he doesnt test the self-pardon waters.
Maybe. But it will not protect him charges filed at the state level.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55387 on: July 8, 2019, 11:30:33 am »
If he loses the election won`t he just resign before the inauguration of the next president?

This would allow Pence to pardon him...always assuming he doesnt test the self-pardon waters.

Id take him just not getting elected again. Nothing will turbo charge conspiracy theories more than Trump getting impeached whilst in office.

Once he is out of office, dont give a shit what happens to him.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55388 on: July 8, 2019, 11:56:41 am »
If he loses the election won`t he just resign before the inauguration of the next president?

This would allow Pence to pardon him...always assuming he doesnt test the self-pardon waters.

But they'd just wait 2 months to charge him under a new Dem president. You can't pre-pardon someone.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55389 on: July 8, 2019, 12:39:16 pm »
But they'd just wait 2 months to charge him under a new Dem president. You can't pre-pardon someone.
Yeah, you can. It happened with Nixon before charges were brought against him. I know - it seems like total bollocks, doesn't it.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55390 on: July 8, 2019, 12:58:13 pm »
Yeah, you can. It happened with Nixon before charges were brought against him. I know - it seems like total bollocks, doesn't it.

American justice? Jesus.
But then he would have to testify no? And if he lied...
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55391 on: July 8, 2019, 01:30:25 pm »
American justice? Jesus.
But then he would have to testify no? And if he lied...
Take the 5th?

The pardon, as you say would be an admission of guilt and leave him liable to being questioned, but he doesn't have to answer. It would make great television, though.

What`s the bet he couldn't help himself and go full "you can`t handle the truth"?

The sad fact is that our major western democracies have ways of shutting these things down and moving on "for the sake of the country".
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55392 on: July 8, 2019, 02:40:03 pm »
American justice? Jesus.
But then he would have to testify no? And if he lied...
I don't know if it equates to 'immunity from persecution', but it would make sense. Though - re: my last comment - sense and the US justice system often fail to align.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55393 on: July 8, 2019, 03:47:35 pm »
Take the 5th?

The pardon, as you say would be an admission of guilt and leave him liable to being questioned, but he doesn't have to answer. It would make great television, though.

What`s the bet he couldn't help himself and go full "you can`t handle the truth"?

The sad fact is that our major western democracies have ways of shutting these things down and moving on "for the sake of the country".

I agree with you about the "moving on" crap.

But I don't think you can take the 5th if you plead guilty. The whole point of the 5th is not to incriminate yourself. But I am no lawyer.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55394 on: July 8, 2019, 03:59:26 pm »


Hmmm, you might be right:



It is a fact that the granting of immunity can be given to anyone at any time. The right against self-incrimination disappears, apparently, when the government can guarantee that there will be no criminal prosecution on the charges involved. A pardon could be seen the same way.

But there are caveats. What if, in the granting of immunity for a particular crime, a case is built from your testimony that leads to an investigation that causes you to be indicted for another, unrelated crime? Will you be unprosecutable? If not, would you not have been better off to have refused to testify? But the granting of immunity can make you liable to penalties imposed by the bench for refusing to testify. In effect, if you are granted immunity without requesting it, the prosecutor, who may not have been able to gain a conviction against you before, might still see you behind bars for a couple of years for failing to cooperate. Again, a person with a pardon could be in the same shoes. I should think one would need a very good attorney to foresee these issues and obtain some assurances. At the very least, testimony gained as a result of being forced because of a pardon or grant of immunity should be considered “fruit of the poisoned tree” for any other charges.

But then there are jurisdictional issues. Can a grant of Federal immunity stop the State from prosecuting? Can it protect a person from civil court action? Will the testimony end up forcing the now “witness” to defame him or herself in open court and damage their lives? Very few things are done in a completely sterile vacuum, and as we have seen recently, all kinds of abuse of prosecutorial privilege is possible when they are holding all the cards.



https://www.quora.com/If-you-are-pardoned-by-the-president-can-you-still-plead-the-fifth
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55395 on: July 8, 2019, 07:16:08 pm »
The state vs Fed thing has been resolved recently. That's one of the reasons that Manafort is now up on NY state charges. He probably won't get much if any additional time in the slammer, but Trump can't pardon this one. He'll have to see out the entire sentence.



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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55396 on: July 8, 2019, 07:20:03 pm »

Hmmm, you might be right:



It is a fact that the granting of immunity can be given to anyone at any time. The right against self-incrimination disappears, apparently, when the government can guarantee that there will be no criminal prosecution on the charges involved. A pardon could be seen the same way.

But there are caveats. What if, in the granting of immunity for a particular crime, a case is built from your testimony that leads to an investigation that causes you to be indicted for another, unrelated crime? Will you be unprosecutable? If not, would you not have been better off to have refused to testify? But the granting of immunity can make you liable to penalties imposed by the bench for refusing to testify. In effect, if you are granted immunity without requesting it, the prosecutor, who may not have been able to gain a conviction against you before, might still see you behind bars for a couple of years for failing to cooperate. Again, a person with a pardon could be in the same shoes. I should think one would need a very good attorney to foresee these issues and obtain some assurances. At the very least, testimony gained as a result of being forced because of a pardon or grant of immunity should be considered “fruit of the poisoned tree” for any other charges.

But then there are jurisdictional issues. Can a grant of Federal immunity stop the State from prosecuting? Can it protect a person from civil court action? Will the testimony end up forcing the now “witness” to defame him or herself in open court and damage their lives? Very few things are done in a completely sterile vacuum, and as we have seen recently, all kinds of abuse of prosecutorial privilege is possible when they are holding all the cards.



https://www.quora.com/If-you-are-pardoned-by-the-president-can-you-still-plead-the-fifth

I don't know how to interpret that, but it certainly looks like a pardon is not a simple wiping of the slate clean.

And if Trump is pardoned but lies under oath...
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55397 on: July 8, 2019, 07:39:37 pm »



Quote
Cuomo Signs a Bill to Allow Release of Trump’s State Tax Returns

State tax officials will be required to release the returns for any ‘specified and legitimate legislative purpose’ to three congressional committees.



As the battle over President Trump’s federal taxes intensifies in Washington, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo of New York signed a bill on Monday to allow congressional committees to access the president’s state tax returns.

The bill requires state tax officials to release the president’s state returns for any “specified and legitimate legislative purpose” on the request of the chair of one of three congressional committees: the House Ways and Means Committee, the Senate Finance Committee and the Joint Committee on Taxation.

It is effective immediately, though it is unclear whether it would be challenged by the Trump administration, or used by the congressional committees; the Ways and Means Committee, for instance, has said previously that it remains focused on pursuing Mr. Trump’s federal tax information.

Still, the state tax documents from New York — the president’s home state and business headquarters — would likely contain much of the same information as the contested federal returns, tax experts say.
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Democrats in Washington have been unable to obtain Mr. Trump’s federal returns. The House Ways and Means Committee has unsuccessfully sought six years of the president’s personal and business tax returns, and last week the House of Representatives sued the Treasury Department and the Internal Revenue Service to try to force them to release the returns.

Mr. Cuomo, a third-term Democrat and frequent critic of Mr. Trump, said that signing the bill would help Congress “fulfill its Constitutional responsibilities, strengthen our democratic system and ensure that no one is above the law.”

The Legislature had passed the measure in late May; Dani Lever, a spokeswoman for the governor, said that the six-week delay in signing the bill was because the governor’s office needed to do a diligent analysis of the legislation and its amendments.

“Any responsible government would thoroughly review this bill, just as we will with more than 930 bills passed this session,” Ms. Lever said, noting “how high the stakes are of this particular legislation.”

The bill signing is the latest in an escalating series of statements and actions that the Cuomo administration has taken against Mr. Trump or his policies.


Earlier last week, the president used Twitter to lash out at Mr. Cuomo and the state attorney general, Letitia James. Without mentioning Ms. James by name, the president said she was “harassing all of my New York businesses in search of anything at all they can find to make me look as bad as possible.”

Ms. James’s office is investigating the financing behind several major Trump Organization projects and a failed effort to buy the Buffalo Bills of the National Football League in 2014, and has issued subpoenas to Deutsche Bank and Investors Bank.

After Mr. Trump’s tirade, Mr. Cuomo responded, “If he is worried about law enforcement, he shouldn’t break the law.”
Trump vs. N.Y.: Fact-Checking His Claims of ‘Harassment’ by the State
July 2, 2019

On Wednesday, Mr. Cuomo called for a probe into the Trump administration’s handling of relief efforts after Hurricane Maria devastated Puerto Rico, blaming the island’s slow recovery on “President Trump’s neglect and refusal to provide adequate assistance.”

Two days later, the governor slammed the president for continuing his efforts to include a citizenship question on the United States census, accusing Mr. Trump of “using the census as a political pawn in his anti-immigrant agenda.”

Now, Mr. Cuomo is pushing forward to give Congress a path to obtain Mr. Trump’s state tax returns. The White House had no immediate comment on the governor’s decision to sign the bill.

The bill has been harshly criticized by Republicans in New York and elsewhere as a “bill of attainder” — an unconstitutional piece of legislation aimed at a single person or group — as well as a potential invasion of privacy. In a statement, Mr. Cuomo agreed that “tax secrecy is paramount,” with, however, “the exception being for bona fide investigative and law enforcement purposes.”

Legal challenges could await; Mr. Trump has previously said that he is ready to take the fight over his federal tax returns to the Supreme Court.

But there have been several amendments made to the New York bill to address potential legal concerns, according to the bill’s supporters, including broadening its focus to cover an array of public officials, federal executive branch employees and political party leaders.

Assemblyman David Buchwald, who sponsored the bill in Albany’s lower chamber, called the governor’s actions “a momentous step,” a sentiment echoed by his Senate counterpart, Brad Hoylman, a Democrat from Manhattan. “Our legislation isn’t about one person,” Mr. Hoylman said. “It’s about assisting Congress in its oversight abilities.”

In May, the New York Legislature also passed a bill to allow state prosecutors to pursue charges against any individual granted a presidential pardon for similar federal crimes, closing a loophole some in Albany feared would be exploited by President Trump seeking to indemnify former associates. That bill is also awaiting the governor’s signature.
« Last Edit: July 8, 2019, 07:42:16 pm by WhereAngelsPlay »
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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55398 on: July 8, 2019, 07:53:20 pm »
Here comes the tax returns. I guess he shouldn't be surprised after he screwed NY State taxpayers in his supposed tax cut.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #55399 on: July 8, 2019, 08:50:07 pm »
Here comes the tax returns. I guess he shouldn't be surprised after he screwed NY State taxpayers in his supposed tax cut.

Saw an MSNBC vid the other day where a commentator said if Congress really want to freak Trump out they need to go back about 15 years, rather than the 6/7 years' worth of returns they're currently pushing for.  Technically there's no reason why they can't go back that far if they want to - it's a question of how many red lines they're prepared to cross to get them.

On other matters referred to above, is it even possible for a president, defeated in an election, to resign in the three month transition period?  Yes, chaos is something we are familiar with in this administration but that would surely create seven layers of sheer bedlam?

And even if it's theoretically possible, as has been said, taking a pardon is a tacit admission of guilt, and of waiving 5th Amendment rights.  He still has all those lovely un-pardonable state charges to face, so it's ultimately pointless - IF he loses.
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