Topic: Lucas called up for Brazil

[fishmyman]

What I like about Lucas is that he has the ability to cover for any of our three 'star' midfielders. From our deep lying playmaker, to the destroyer and finally our driving 'box to box' midfielder.

Though he is not individually on par when compared to any of Xabi, Masch and Stevie, he does the secondary roles much better than they do in my opinion. I.e. Stevie is by far better as a box to box or attacking midfielder, but Lucas seems to have more discipline to be the deep playmaker or destroyer (Stevie can do both and his discipline has improved, but I don't think we can keep the shackles on him for more than a few games in a row if required)

I'm very confident Lucas can and will make the grade for Liverpool. He has the best players around him to learn off and that can only help. The ability to cover the three 'stars' is great for us currently, and as he improves, he may become one of, if not the most complete midfielder we've ever had.

[pete price]

after pennant (obviously) i'd say it was lucas who was earning the most 'for fucks sakes' around the ground.

he wasn't absolutely terrible but motm talk is well wide of the mark.

thought arbeloa was one of our better performers last night especially considering there was more onus on him to get forward. 

[Crazynumber9]

Lucas was alright yesterday, yes he misplaced a few passes but he has barely played for a month and is sure to be rusty. He just looked a bit off the pace but definitely wasn't as poor as Pennant last night

[Neil D]

after pennant (obviously) i'd say it was lucas who was earning the most 'for fucks sakes' around the ground.

he wasn't absolutely terrible but motm talk is well wide of the mark.

thought arbeloa was one of our better performers last night especially considering there was more onus on him to get forward. 

That's the thing, his performances are met with endless moans and groans in the ground, but he always get such high praise on here. I think he has shown the signs of a good player in the making, but don't believe the MOTM hype nor that he is better than the likes of Gerrard was at his age. I worry that his lack of regular first team football is hindering his development.

[WaltonRed]

That's the thing, his performances are met with endless moans and groans in the ground, but he always get such high praise on here. I think he has shown the signs of a good player in the making, but don't believe the MOTM hype nor that he is better than the likes of Gerrard was at his age. I worry that his lack of regular first team football is hindering his development.

There is clearly a huge middle ground between MOTM and moans and groans which is what Lucas deserved.  He is a very non-showy player who does the basics right and not much else.  He doesnt have blistering pace, he lacks a crunching tackle, he is nto going to do wonderful cross field passes.  What he does do is the basics and does them very well.  The give and go.  he is often in space; take a look how often when he gets the ball he has that extra yard of space.

He is the kind of midfielder that in a team full of talents would play a useful role.  But also the kind of midfielder in a team full of similar midfielders woudl be atrocious.  I think he is going to develop into more of the same. ie. a player who will keep possession, harry the opposition, occasionally score through late runs into the box (but not score too often).  He is certainly not a failure and I can see why we play him.  But he is never going to be a superstar.

[barnseysleftpeg]

I'm worried that people are worrying too much about Lucas.  The guy is 21 years old, has three world class performers ahead of him in the team, comes in every now and then to cover for them, does it most times with distinction if not he's adequate so why all the moaning and groaning from people???

I would wager that when Lucas plays Rafa gives him a set of instructions to follow and he does this to the letter (which is probably why Rafa loves him so much).  Whilst good for Rafa and the team it probably stifles Lucas' natural game which, from all the youtube vids, looks like that is about bombing forward every five minutes and taking shots.  I think Rafa probably thinks I've got Gerro to do that and if I wanted a not as good a version I'd use Spearing.

Basically Lucas' role is to be a good enough cover for any of the other three and he's fine at that.  I think because he's brazilian people are expecting more and he probably does have more in his locker but he's a back up for the first team as it were so he shouldn't have to feel the pressure I think the home fans are starting to put him under.  Just let him develop at his pace, he already looks like he's added a bit of bulk which is all part of it.

I'm willing to give him time so why the impatience guys???

[pathetic]

I don't get it how anyone can say that Lucas had an awful game yesterday? It seems as if he was targetted and will get criticised even if he plays well . He was one of our best players yesterday and I'm sry to say but anyone who says otherwise knows fuck all about football. Anyone who keeps saying that he lost the ball...he lost his first ball in the 60-70th minute. I don't see anyone criticising Gerrard for losing the ball numerous times more than Lucas. Some players seem to be immune to criticism.....especially if they're local one might add..

[barnseysleftpeg]

I don't get it how anyone can say that Lucas had an awful game yesterday? It seems as if he was targetted and will get criticised even if he plays well . He was one of our best players yesterday and I'm sry to say but anyone who says otherwise knows fuck all about football. Anyone who keeps saying that he lost the ball...he lost his first ball in the 60-70th minute. I don't see anyone criticising Gerrard for losing the ball numerous times more than Lucas. Some players seem to be immune to criticism.....especially if they're local one might add..

Got to agree with this statement. 

Riera, who has fast become one of my favourite players, lost the ball twice in dangerous positions against the Chelsea and I've barely heard a mention of it Lucas sends his first stray ball after more than two thirds of the match and gets slated. 

Can you imagine if you're Lucas knowing that the fans are on your case because you're not Jay fxxking Spearing - that is a sad state of affairs I tell you.

[Neil D]

I don't get it how anyone can say that Lucas had an awful game yesterday? It seems as if he was targetted and will get criticised even if he plays well . He was one of our best players yesterday and I'm sry to say but anyone who says otherwise knows fuck all about football. Anyone who keeps saying that he lost the ball...he lost his first ball in the 60-70th minute. I don't see anyone criticising Gerrard for losing the ball numerous times more than Lucas. Some players seem to be immune to criticism.....especially if they're local one might add..

That would be most of the Kop last night then.

Gerrard loses the ball in the main trying adventurous passes and flicks, to run past an opponent or play a long ball over the top. Something we very rarely see from Lucas. There is a difference. When nearly all your passes are short sideways balls, you're not going to lose it that often.

I don't think he was awful yesterday, just very average. At the moment when he comes into the side in place of Xabi, Masch or Gerrard our mnidfield is significantly weakened.

Good post by the way, WaltonRed. Sums him up at the moment for me.

[jwill2127]

I agree. ALways sidewards. I could do that. I always have a bet with my dad how many stupid free kicks he will give away!!  But he is a red, so i only slag him off in pub afterwards not on the pitch!

[liverpoolfcmike]

I worry that his lack of regular first team football is hindering his development.

I do too, which is why it may be sensible to loan him out to a top-flight team for a season to see how he develops, and maybe use Spearing/Duran as cover for the first half of next season or however long the loan would last.

I did think that Lucas' pass to Pennant leading up to Kuyt hitting the woodwork was exceptional. That's just one example of his talent.

[pathetic]

That would be most of the Kop last night then.

Gerrard loses the ball in the main trying adventurous passes and flicks, to run past an opponent or play a long ball over the top. Something we very rarely see from Lucas. There is a difference. When nearly all your passes are short sideways balls, you're not going to lose it that often.

I don't think he was awful yesterday, just very average. At the moment when he comes into the side in place of Xabi, Masch or Gerrard our mnidfield is significantly weakened.

Good post by the way, WaltonRed. Sums him up at the moment for me.

was his job yesterday to try adventurous passes though? he was a defensive midfielder, a replacement for Mascherano and dare I say it, was better than Mascherano in his last couple of games.

Ok i would take Mascherano over Lucas any day of the week, but that doesn't make Lucas a bad player. Plus he's only young and developing. But all these people on his back won't surely make him the world class player which imo he will be, be it with us or with another team (more likely with another team sadly)!

Got to agree with this statement. 

Riera, who has fast become one of my favourite players, lost the ball twice in dangerous positions against the Chelsea and I've barely heard a mention of it Lucas sends his first stray ball after more than two thirds of the match and gets slated. 

Can you imagine if you're Lucas knowing that the fans are on your case because you're not Jay fxxking Spearing - that is a sad state of affairs I tell you.

good post mate! exactly my thoughts! we must support our players and not blame a 20/21? yr old who is giving his best for our team.

If he was playing for the Mancs we'll all be wetting ourselves over Lucas and listening to the media we'd all think he was the next Messiah. Sadly we target some of our best prospects because we expect too much, too soon!

[Neil D]

was his job yesterday to try adventurous passes though? he was a defensive midfielder, a replacement for Mascherano and dare I say it, was better than Mascherano in his last couple of games.

Ok i would take Mascherano over Lucas any day of the week, but that doesn't make Lucas a bad player. Plus he's only young and developing. But all these people on his back won't surely make him the world class player which imo he will be, be it with us or with another team (more likely with another team sadly)!

good post mate! exactly my thoughts! we must support our players and not blame a 20/21? yr old who is giving his best for our team.

If he was playing for the Mancs we'll all be wetting ourselves over Lucas and listening to the media we'd all think he was the next Messiah. Sadly we target some of our best prospects because we expect too much, too soon!

I don't think he put in a better performance last night than Mascherano did against Chelsea.

Creatively I thought he was poor, but as a defensive midfielder he didn't shine for me either - he didn't get tight enough and Portsmouth often had plenty of time on the ball in midfield. They had loads of possession at times and Lucas wasn't harrying enough or making enough good, strong tackles.

Why are people 'on his back' all of a sudden, not supporting him, or 'targetting' or blaming him? We're just analysing his performance and his ability.

[pathetic]

I don't think he put in a better performance last night than Mascherano did against Chelsea.

Creatively I thought he was poor, but as a defensive midfielder he didn't shine for me either - he didn't get tight enough and Portsmouth often had plenty of time on the ball in midfield. They had loads of possession at times and Lucas wasn't harrying enough or making enough good, strong tackles.

Why are people 'on his back' all of a sudden, not supporting him, or 'targetting' or blaming him? We're just analysing his performance and his ability.

each to their own i guess mate. yesterday in my opinion he played a good game. ok there were times when he should have shot instead of passing. but if everyone is on his back and they boo him if he tries a shot and it goes wide, then i don't begrudge him not trying to shoot. and imo mascherano went missing against chelsea or using your phrase, he didnt shine.

If lucas did that misplaced pass that mascherano did to xabi in the first half against chelsea he would have been absolutely crucified on here. and that wasnt an adventurous pass...

[.adam]

Cannot agree that Lucas is a better player than Gerrard was at this point in his development.

Last night, Lucas stood out for two reasons to me. The first, which was apparent to me throughout the game, was that he offered very little in an attacking or a defensive sense. Going forward, as other have pointed out, it seemed that he was afraid to try anything for fear of messing up. No doubt his 'stats' for the game would show a near perfect pass completion rate but this is a prime example of how stats can lie. In all honesty, he offered very little.

To be honest, I'm not sure where his best position is. At Gremio, I understand he played a slightly more advanced role and scored a few as a result. I haven't seen enough craft or guile to suggest that he could play this role for Liverpool as his creativity isn't evident when he is playing easy five yard passes all the time.

Defensively, I feel he's too slight to cope. Diarra, a good player, whisked passed him many a time last night and Diop simply knocked him off the ball. I wouldn't feel confident with him in the side when we come up against someone with truly world-class central-midfielders.

The second thing that stood out last night was when we were under the kosh in the last fifteen minutes, he kept giving the ball away either by hoofing it or mis-placing passes in our defensive third of the pitch. I'm sure composure will come with experience  though.

As other posters have pointed out, he needs to start stamping his authority on games and not simply being a passenger. Hopefully this will come with time and experience but I'm not sure if this will be the case with Lucas and if he doesn't start performing a bit more, he could be on his way. At the end of the day, Rafa has sold players for a lot less.

[rebel23]

Cannot agree that Lucas is a better player than Gerrard was at this point in his development.

Last night, Lucas stood out for two reasons to me. The first, which was apparent to me throughout the game, was that he offered very little in an attacking or a defensive sense. Going forward, as other have pointed out, it seemed that he was afraid to try anything for fear of messing up. No doubt his 'stats' for the game would show a near perfect pass completion rate but this is a prime example of how stats can lie. In all honesty, he offered very little.

To be honest, I'm not sure where his best position is. At Gremio, I understand he played a slightly more advanced role and scored a few as a result. I haven't seen enough craft or guile to suggest that he could play this role for Liverpool as his creativity isn't evident when he is playing easy five yard passes all the time.

Defensively, I feel he's too slight to cope. Diarra, a good player, whisked passed him many a time last night and Diop simply knocked him off the ball. I wouldn't feel confident with him in the side when we come up against someone with truly world-class central-midfielders.

the stats show he won 7 balls last night, more than any of the midfielders

coming up against world class midfielders, Lucas has started against Chelsea, Arsenal, Inter Milan etc away from home and we've got results

what I like about Lucas and im sure what Rafa likes is that he's tactically aware and disciplined, you should watch most Premier League midefielders they don't have the faintest idea and often lose their heads and back off the opposition etc.

[Red number seven]

Thought Lucas had a good game yesterday, though faded. Impressed with his tackling, particularly.

My impression is he is developing into a good pass and move central midfielder, good touch, tactical awareness and ability to stick his foot in. He is currently an enabling player, a 'circulation' or 'continuity' type player who retains possession, keeps the ball moving, links the team together and allows the more marquee players to receive the ball in more advanced, dangerous positions. I think he can and should be more. I do think he has the talent to be more incisive with his passes and aggressive with his running.

To become a really good midfielder he needs to be more of a threat to the opposition goal.

[new-red]

People saying that lucas wasn't adventurous or didnt play any telling passes, well then they didn't see his runs into the box, which on one occasion almost led to a goal.

Lucas' best attribute is his movement. If other members of the team start to understand his type of play, i think you lot would be pleasantly surprised with just how attacking he can be.

If you guys watched preseason or the reserves (yea, i know different level, but still it applies) you would see how pacheco utilized lucas' movement. Every time lucas ghosted in the box, pacheco had the eye for it and laid perfect through balls and they led to goals against lucerne and in the reserve league final.

Yesterday there were about 4 or 5 occasions were he made runs into the box. Only one where he was actually rewarded for it.

Lucas will not make driving runs with the ball like gerrard.
Lucas will not attempt those 40 yard precision passes like alonso.
Lucas will not be the dogged Defensive mid.

If you play lucas next masch then i think he would have the license to be exactly what he can be. Lucas' main thing is pass and move. He rarely holds onto the ball for more than 2 seconds. He makes sure the ball keeps moving and constantly makes runs off the ball to pull defenses left and right and back and forward. If you get lucas around the box, you will see some really intelligent play.

Its sad because the way Lucas plays makes him look useless in this current system. his 4-5 yard passes designed to just keep the ball moving is very reminiscint of Xavi at Barcelona. He just keeps position and keeps the ball moving, obviously he has better technical ability and attacking sense but that will come with time for young lucas.

In my opinion he has the three best CMs in the world to learn from.

He can learn tackling and pressure from Masch.
He can learn vision and decision making from Xabi.
And he can learn drive in attack from Gerrard.

If you give the boy a chance he will come good. You guys just have to be patient.

And more imporantly, why the hell not be patient.

We have 3 world class CMs, we don't need lucas to be a world beater right away.

[Kemlyn 28]

From our deep lying playmaker, to the destroyer and finally our driving 'box to box' midfielder.

??

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

People saying that lucas wasn't adventurous or didnt play any telling passes, well then they didn't see his runs into the box, which on one occasion almost led to a goal.

Lucas' best attribute is his movement. If other members of the team start to understand his type of play, i think you lot would be pleasantly surprised with just how attacking he can be.

If you guys watched preseason or the reserves (yea, i know different level, but still it applies) you would see how pacheco utilized lucas' movement. Every time lucas ghosted in the box, pacheco had the eye for it and laid perfect through balls and they led to goals against lucerne and in the reserve league final.

Yesterday there were about 4 or 5 occasions were he made runs into the box. Only one where he was actually rewarded for it.

Lucas will not make driving runs with the ball like gerrard.
Lucas will not attempt those 40 yard precision passes like alonso.
Lucas will not be the dogged Defensive mid.

If you play lucas next masch then i think he would have the license to be exactly what he can be. Lucas' main thing is pass and move. He rarely holds onto the ball for more than 2 seconds. He makes sure the ball keeps moving and constantly makes runs off the ball to pull defenses left and right and back and forward. If you get lucas around the box, you will see some really intelligent play.

Its sad because the way Lucas plays makes him look useless in this current system. his 4-5 yard passes designed to just keep the ball moving is very reminiscint of Xavi at Barcelona. He just keeps position and keeps the ball moving, obviously he has better technical ability and attacking sense but that will come with time for young lucas.

In my opinion he has the three best CMs in the world to learn from.

He can learn tackling and pressure from Masch.
He can learn vision and decision making from Xabi.
And he can learn drive in attack from Gerrard.

If you give the boy a chance he will come good. You guys just have to be patient.

And more imporantly, why the hell not be patient.

We have 3 world class CMs, we don't need lucas to be a world beater right away.

Great post. I also thought his movement was one of his best attributes. I think with time he will improve, and will reach a good standard. He does need more games though. I think he suffers sometimes because Gerrard is basically undroppable - not advocating dropping him by any means but Lucas usually comes in for Mascherano or Alonso  being rested rather than Gerrard, who plays every game possible just about, and i think Lucas can offer more alongside Masch than Stevie. Were Stevie to get injured I think we would see better of Lucas. So he is very worthwhile to have in the squad.

[red_to_the_toe]

I'm always nervous to see players start who haven't seen much playing time.  They're usually off tempo, and need lots of touches to start doing things right.  But Hyypia, Lucas, and arguably Babel (hasn't played THAT much but more than the previous two) played very well and did their jobs with little to complain about.  Pennant, however, was so lacking that we might as well had 10 men out there and a boy on the right wing.  One of Lucas' best games, should be getting votes of confidence here.  Hope he sees more games, we'll need him the rest of the season, can't argue with that.

[Manila Kop]

We have 3 world class CMs, we don't need lucas to be a world beater right away.

Absolutely spot on there.  People who say he can't be attacking need to watch his goal against Aston Villa in the reserves final.  Or even the one against Crewe.  I think someone compared him to Ballack before in his ability to ghost into the box undetected by the defense.

[red_to_the_toe]

I also think the role he has been called upon to learn, is a tough one to fill and especially in the pace and physical nature of this league.  It's not surprising that great defensive midfielders (ahem: who can still score goals ; ) are not easy to find or blood.  Think too many people see the likes of Riera and Torres, who come into the league and play well immediately, and then scoff at the other new lads. 

[Juan Loco]

after pennant (obviously) i'd say it was lucas who was earning the most 'for fucks sakes' around the ground.

Which is a shame because it makes the lad look more and more for the safe pass, which he does too much already. He played one peach of a pass last night, out to Pennant, in the attack that led to Kuyt hitting the post. Apart from that though he only made a couple of those 'alonso' passes that get the ball into the space between the opposition midfield and defence. He got their midfield turned a couple of times, but Alonso did it much more. That's his main problem from last night really - he played quite well, but Alonso did the exact same things only better right next to him. If we had played with just two in the centre then his performance may have been highlighted more for his movement, constant availability to receive a pass, and economical use of the ball. His 'problem' was that Alonso is a master of those things, and as crisp as Lucas' passing was, Alonso's was just as sweet. In hindsight he'd have been better alongside Gerrard in a 4-4-2 yesterday, then his contribution may have been given a bit more perspective. Having two guys doing the exact same thing yesterday was just a bit... meh.

Most frustrating thing about his performance last night was midway through the 2nd half when you were just screaming for him to have a shot and he ended up taking too many touches, slowing the pace of the move, and passing the ball out to the right. Take a shot! Try an audacious pass! ... Risk the groans, because they're coming anyways.

[dmn]

That's the thing, his performances are met with endless moans and groans in the ground, but he always get such high praise on here.

Yes, the good thing about TV.
Most people on the ground (and watching TV at a pub or something similar) usually just notice/remember the spectacular stuff and the mistakes. And when Lucas does neither, the conclusion is that he's done fuck all, always played sideways, and simply was shite.
While ppl paying much more attention to the small details will notice all the things Lucas did good and have him down as one of the best players yesterday.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

have some faith in this lad
never been so sure that we have a gem on our hands.

just needs nuturing along

[Crackerjack Sam]

One thing I must say about Lucas is that you never ever notice him unless he scores a goal. But he does work hard, it just not as obvious as Masch or Xabi.
A developing talent in the making. He did quite well yesterday.

There something about his play that makes him more suited as an offensive central midfielder.

[Adam Pepper]

He will come good one day im sure

[abhred]

His biggest problem is that he's completely in awe of everyone around him, and doesn't have the bottle to take risks. You could see how Babel was like that last season, and but this season he's really matured. Lucas needs to do that now. Seems he still hasn't forgotten the bollocking he got from Gerrard a couple of times last season.

[keyo]

One thing I must say about Lucas is that you never ever notice him unless he scores a goal. But he does work hard, it just not as obvious as Masch or Xabi.
A developing talent in the making. He did quite well yesterday.

There something about his play that makes him more suited as an offensive central midfielder.

One thing that does show is that he "fits" in.  I suppose some may interpret it as anonymous, but really how much of Mascherano's and Alonso's work goes unnoticed - you notice Mascherano defensive work most when he is chasing down, and you notice Alonso's passing when it is more extravagant, but much of there work is quietly effective....even gerrard seems to be less visible when he is sitting controlling the midfield as he did against everton.....so the fact that lucas' work can go unnoticed would suggest he "fits in" nicely, and is good enough for a spot....he certainly doesn't look out of his depth.

[Neil D]

Yes, the good thing about TV.
Most people on the ground (and watching TV at a pub or something similar) usually just notice/remember the spectacular stuff and the mistakes. And when Lucas does neither, the conclusion is that he's done fuck all, always played sideways, and simply was shite.
While ppl paying much more attention to the small details will notice all the things Lucas did good and have him down as one of the best players yesterday.

Can't agree with that. I watch the game intently at the match and when watching on TV you can't see all the movement ahead of Lucas and the chances for passes that he decided against because they were too ambitious. He wasn't one of our best players on Wednesday.

[keyo]

after pennant (obviously) i'd say it was lucas who was earning the most 'for fucks sakes' around the ground.

he wasn't absolutely terrible but motm talk is well wide of the mark.

thought arbeloa was one of our better performers last night especially considering there was more onus on him to get forward. 

after pennant, lucas is also probably the player most fans ar willing to moan and groan at and less willing to tolerate missed tackles and misplaced passes