Topic: Lucas called up for Brazil

[RyanBabel19]

Then he said this more recently.


What is your preferred position?
 
I'm in my favourite position now: I'm a second defensive midfielder, the one who is allowed to help the forwards when he gets an opportunity. My main strength is that I work hard for the team. I also think I'm a good marker, and I pass the ball well. But I need to improve my shooting and the attacking part of my game.

---------------------------

I think his best role seems to be (more of) an attacking one. He is good around the box and has an eye for an intellegent through ball, he is a good finisher too, get him in on goal and he knows how to finish the move as he showed in preseason.

[Mother.F]

Then he said this more recently.


What is your preferred position?
 
I'm in my favourite position now: I'm a second defensive midfielder, the one who is allowed to help the forwards when he gets an opportunity. My main strength is that I work hard for the team. I also think I'm a good marker, and I pass the ball well. But I need to improve my shooting and the attacking part of my game.
 

They aren't mutually exclusive.

[kkhaku]

Wasn't he put on alongside Masch against Atleti? Meaning the more attacking midfielder of the pairing?

[BazC]

Here it is:

That article shows exactly why I want him to be in an advanced position- the simple 1-2s he does- pass and move... it's exactly what players like Fabregas do- those attacking midfield/'in the hole' types that are so effective. We have Xabi doing the same thing but deep down- he pings it about and makes himself available to the defenders. We need someone doing that but in attack- Xabi lays the foundation, Lucas takes over. A bit like how Xabi/Xavi play with Fabregas in the Spain set up. I don't think Gerrard is disciplined enough to do it- he always looks for the killer ball- instead of the best ball.

It's the type of player I'd have loved to have signed instead of Robbie Keane- a player who could drop deep and create goals and take our team to another level of attacking football by pulling the strings in attack. We didn't get such a player (I don't think Keane is) but we do have a few likely candidates in our squad who could develop into that type. I really hope we end up with such an option. Chelsea have Lampard (and Deco), Arsenal have Fabregas, Man U have Berbatov and Rooney who do similar jobs, and we have Gerrard- but I don't think he's completely suited to it as I said above. 

[RyanBabel19]

They aren't mutually exclusive.

What do you mean

[Red number seven]

i'm in the 'I don't see anything special about him at all' camp.

Pass. And. Move.

[Masch20]

Better than the likes or Diao, Diomede, and hes still a kid! Has great future ahead, and this is good news for the lad

[Manila Kop]

I make no bones about the fact that I rate Lucas very highly, however I think there are two main problems at the moment (aside, of course, of issues pertaining to his lack of games and perhaps fitness). 

Firstly, I think his main problem is his timidity....not in terms of physicality against the opposition, but more his timid nature towards his own teammates.  As a 'pass and move' style midfielder he needs to constantly get and give the ball, and use his (in my view) excellent vision to move the team into areas of the pitch where we can most create, but he has a tendency to give the short 5 yard pass, move into space but then not demand the ball back.  This makes it appear that he is constantly taking the easy option of giving the ball to his more experience midfield partners and then getting out of the way.  I have no doubt that his standing as captain and best player at Gremio meant that his teammates always looked for him to give the ball to, and allowed him to become the integral player of that side.  Perhaps if he can be more assertive here, he could translate his obvious ability onto the pitch much more consistantly.

The second problem I believe he has is that our side is very much a 'power' side.  That's not to say we can't play nice pretty stuff (though this season we haven't seen a huge amount of it), but I think our natural style at the moment is one more of drive, determination, directness and power that attempts to steamroller over the opposition to win games.  If Lucas is going to be a big player for us either we have to tweak our style of play a little bit, or he himself has to find a way to marry his style of football with that of our current one.  If he was able to, I think we'd become a much more balanced side.

Great post Art. Lucas really does seem to "shrink" when he's in midfield, suffering in comparison to Stevie who can take games by the scruff of the neck with his drive in power.  I would like to see Lucas take some more leadership and be more vocal on the pitch, helping to orchestrate the team, but it may not happen until Stevie or Xabi leaves the team for good.  Fabregas went through a similar stage before Henry left - I remember reading an interview where he said he felt obligated to pass to Henry instead of a better-positioned teammate.

These are the kind of factors - the hierarchy within the team, the personalities - off the pitch which can really filter down into performances on it.

[dmn]

Wasn't he put on alongside Masch against Atleti? Meaning the more attacking midfielder of the pairing?

Yes he was, both against Atleti and against LOM. The problem was that we were playing way to deep vs Atleti at the time to suit him, and against LOM we never really got control (for a number of reasons, but in my book mainly down to Masch having a really bad game).

They aren't mutually exclusive.

Exactly, those 2 quotes don't contradict each other - he's playing at his favourite position as the "defensive" midfielder who has license to push forward (ie, rather box-to-box) - Like I've said all the time in this thread. Which means that if we're playing a 4-4-2, he's competing with Gerrard for a place, and if Gerrard is out or playing further up, he's competing with Alonso for a place (based on that having Alonso in the more defensive position as when Gerrard-Alonso play in a 4-4-2, we'll probably lack pace in the middle with Lucas-Alonso).


Art - very good point about demanding the ball back, as when he play with more high profile players the team-mates aren't looking for him in the same way.
I think that is a very valid observation when compairing him in Liverpool/BrazilU23/Brazil NT vs Liverpool pre-season/Gremio/BrazilU20: in the latter 3 he's been bossing games but in the former 3 there is the impression of picking the simple option.
(this could certainly be applied to a number of other players as well in a new environment - for example Insua in the U20 World Cup when he suddenly got to play with players like Aguero and Banega: He played very good, but it was very unusual that he actually got the ball when he was in great positions or that he got it back in a 1-2)

[royhendo]

a quote from Eduardo Macia that gives some insight into the way Lucas is regarded by the staff.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/features/this_season/FN13191080724-1204-1.htm
---------------

You talk about looking for players with the right mentality. Do you feel the Liverpool squad have the same winning mentality as the Valencia team you were involved with?
 
This group of players we have now is one of the best I've seen during my time here. I think it's better than the squad we had at Valencia when we won the league and UEFA Cup in 2004. That was nearly five years ago now and the level of football has gone up since then. The game has progressed a lot in such a short space of time. That's what we've got to keep doing, improving. If you're not then you're going backwards. Even when you win something you've still got to try and become better by bringing in more quality. For example, Lucas Leiva says give me the ball, even if I make a mistake I'm not afraid to take responsibility in big games. That's the mentality we require; strong players who can think for themselves and don't need to be told what to do. They are clever guys who can make their own decisions on the pitch and help you win games. Mentality of the player is the most important thing. There are probably a million players with quality in the world. That's not enough. I don't want someone who is fantastic in September and November. I want someone who is fantastic all year round. If you want to be a successful team you need players who can still be at their best when it comes to the end of the season and the big games arrive almost every few days. It's not a matter of quality. You can improve a player's fitness, technique and make them tactically better. What you can't do is give them the mentality. You can be a fantastic player at a lower level team but if you want to come here then you've got to be a winner. When you play for a big club, particularly in the Premier League, everyone else will be doing their utmost to beat you every weekend. You've got to be able to deal with that and produce 100 per cent every week.

[Gus 1855]

I thought Lucas looked a lot better today, passing was good as it often has been BUT:

1) He was snapping into challenges like I have never seen him before, he seemed to like the physical side of the game today.
2) His positioning was top class, again signs of him developing nicely.

[Neil D]

Thought he was poor tonight myself - played like a crab for 90 minutes, shuffling one way and then the next, rarely looking for an adventurous pass just a sideways ball and didn't offer Stevie and Dirk enough support. Gave the ball away in some stupid positions, particulary a looped clearance right at the death, and still looks like he hasn't found a working set of studs for his boots because he keeps falling over and slipping about. Doesn't seem to go in hard for his tackles either. I'm struggling to keep reciting the mantra that he is young and he is going to get better.

I'm just not sure what role he has to play for us at the moment - he's clearly more of a box to box midfielder but we play him in a deeper role that requires more combative qualities, pace and a bit more finesse than he is currently displaying.

[RyanBabel19]

Thought he was poor tonight myself - played like a crab for 90 minutes, shuffling one way and then the next, rarely looking for an adventurous pass just a sideways ball and didn't offer Stevie and Dirk enough support. Gave the ball away in some stupid positions, particulary a looped clearance right at the death, and still looks like he hasn't found a working set of studs for his boots because he keeps falling over and slipping about. Doesn't seem to go in hard for his tackles either. I'm struggling to keep reciting the mantra that he is young and he is going to get better.

I'm just not sure what role he has to play for us at the moment - he's clearly more of a box to box midfielder but we play him in a deeper role that requires more combative qualities, pace and a bit more finesse than he is currently displaying.

Bit unfair that, he had a good game and made some of the best passes of anyone on the field. Looked stronger in the tackle and won the ball well, only bad things i saw was a few misplaced passes here and there which most players did tonight.

[andylfc]

Thought he was our best player 2nite meself, got stuck in. Disagree completely with he gave the ball away in stupid positions, if he gave the ball away more than twice all night id be suprised. Few nice late runs into the box too

[RyanBabel19]

I dont see what he has to do to get some praise from some fans, its asif he must do extra compared to others for his performance to be considered impressive

[TaylorAlonso]

Lucas was incredible tonight, every single pass was crisp and brought everyone into play. First touch was brilliant but just slightly faded (fatigue) in the last 5 minutes.

MOTM for me.

[Met]

More than pleased with Lucas tonight, I'm sure he is in Rafa's long term plan. (Unless he shags Montse). Always liked this player, brilliant little lad but it seems that people are looking for a scapegoat and every single mistake he does gets blown out of proportions.
Anyway, good game, Lucas. You're coming along nicely.

[freedom]

Thought he was great tonight! Well done Lucas!

[Gedo]

Thought he was our best player 2nite meself, got stuck in. Disagree completely with he gave the ball away in stupid positions, if he gave the ball away more than twice all night id be suprised. Few nice late runs into the box too

Who was the best?

[BazC]

He did very well tonight. Him and Gerrard played great in the CM. That's how it came across in the slightly fuzzy stream I had for 3/4 of the game anyway!

Great strength in depth.

[Neil D]

I swear I must be missing something where he is concerned. Thought he was one of our worst players - very average indeed. Just watched the re-run on Football First, and it only confirmed my earlier summary - he looks scared to venture forward, to gamble on a run into the box or take a shot, and he doesn't look comfortable yet in this league for me, especially physically.

Still, it's very early in his career and maybe I will see him grow into the player some of you already seem to recognise.

[SadRed]

Thought he was poor tonight myself - played like a crab for 90 minutes, shuffling one way and then the next, rarely looking for an adventurous pass just a sideways ball and didn't offer Stevie and Dirk enough support. Gave the ball away in some stupid positions, particulary a looped clearance right at the death, and still looks like he hasn't found a working set of studs for his boots because he keeps falling over and slipping about. Doesn't seem to go in hard for his tackles either. I'm struggling to keep reciting the mantra that he is young and he is going to get better.

I'm just not sure what role he has to play for us at the moment - he's clearly more of a box to box midfielder but we play him in a deeper role that requires more combative qualities, pace and a bit more finesse than he is currently displaying.

Disagree really. I think he was very good/

[Mojo Pin]

Really don't think we needed two defensive midfielders on the pitch today.

[Adam Pepper]

I swear I must be missing something where he is concerned. Thought he was one of our worst players - very average indeed. Just watched the re-run on Football First, and it only confirmed my earlier summary - he looks scared to venture forward, to gamble on a run into the box or take a shot, and he doesn't look comfortable yet in this league for me, especially physically.

Still, it's very early in his career and maybe I will see him grow into the player some of you already seem to recognise.

You have no clue.

[new-red]

he did well. His defensive positioning was fine.

If people were paying attention to his movement tonight they would be very pleased with him. He was constantly dragging defenders this way and taht. He made a 4-5 runs into the box taht went unnoticed but were open.

He showed some of his attacking prowess today and almost got on the end of a goal but for a good challenge by the defender.

One thing he needs to work on is his awareness of his passing. A lot of times he would pass a ball to a player and expect to get it right back. HOwever our team doesn't do that, and a lot of times players like pennant wuold recieve the ball and be tackled immediately. He put our players in trouble sometimes but i think thats just his style of play. If he were at aresnal he would fit right in 100% with that way of passing.

[Cruiser]

Did well tonight but he definately needs more confidence going forward against defending teams as Gerrard does - more one touch passing and runs into the box. As to whether hes been given licence to do so by Rafa we don't know but his opportunities are somewhat stagnated as hes the spare DM covering for rotation/injuries. Up to now its start one game, then benched for a few, then start and so forth which does affect your gameplay and confidence. He hasn't had a decent run which is what he ultimately needs (but can't obviously get).

[toykeys]

its good to hear he scored many goals in brazil, because i was having my doubts about what he was meant to be good at. does anybody know how many goals he averaged in brazil.

[cal_liverpoolfc]

dont rate him to be honest

[Neil D]

You have no clue.

 

Says the man who has posted utter nonsense since he joined this forum.

[Juan Loco]

Is it possible to both agree with that (that his inclusion was unnecessary alongside both Gerrard and Alonso) and think Lucas did well individually? If so that's what I think.

I thought Lucas' movement was good, as it usuaally is, but every time he got the ball in an area where he could have taken a risk and gone for a strike, or attempted an audacious pass, he - for lack of a better word - bottled it. I thought he did well enough individually, but in a game like tonight's he needed to risk the groans of supporters and teammates and try something from outside of his Little Box Of Safety First.

I think having him and Alonso instead of Benayoun was something of a negative move. I think, if he was going to play like he did tonight, we could have afford to have him and Gerrard in the centre in a 4-4-2, as we did at home to Bolton last year, and have rested Alonso for the weekend.

My 2 cents on him tonight.

[Neil D]

Was just about to quote that from the after-match thread myself Juan. Summed up part of what I was trying to say - he just doesn't do enough for me at the moment to be considered a first team regular, and wasn't needed tonight.

[Bob Loblaw]

Decent enough i thought. Still not imposing himself on the game enough for me. Too content to let things go by him.

[Zeb]

Was just about to quote that from the after-match thread myself Juan. Summed up part of what I was trying to say - he just doesn't do enough for me at the moment to be considered a first team regular, and wasn't needed tonight.

Looked to me like Rafa was giving him experience at filling in for Mascherano. Certainly he looked like he was playing to orders. He certainly seemed to do a fair bit of decent harrying.

The way Portsmouth played though, think you're right that he was un-needed as a second defensive midfielder. But then we did seem exceptionally dominant in first half despite (or because of?) that.

[scoresagain]

I just can't see what he actually DOES. Is he meant to attack or defend?? From what i can see, he doesnt do much of either. He isnt a defender, not a striker, not an attacking midfielder or a defensive one, not a winger, what are you LUCAS?!
As for tonight, i thought he was as average as the rest of the team

[The Jackal]

My 2 cents on him tonight.

Agree entirely Juan. He performed his role perfectly well, but that role isn't really what we required tonight...

[i_wun_bite]

he is still young and still adapting the to english game. Should become a decent player at the very least.

[redsonfire]

Lucas is fantastic.. could be the replacement for Gerrard... hes only 20-21, and right now what I feel that he needs to improve on is his speed and upper body strength..too often pushed over by opposition imo.

[fishmyman]

better than stevie at that age
motm for me tonight

[Mimi]

better than stevie at that age
motm for me tonight

Fucking hell, why did you say that? Can't we discuss him on his own merits without mixing Gerrard up in this. Now Lucas will get abused because people will call you on the Gerrard point.

[wb888]

What I like about Lucas is that he has the ability to cover for any of our three 'star' midfielders. From our deep lying playmaker, to the destroyer and finally our driving 'box to box' midfielder.

Though he is not individually on par when compared to any of Xabi, Masch and Stevie, he does the secondary roles much better than they do in my opinion. I.e. Stevie is by far better as a box to box or attacking midfielder, but Lucas seems to have more discipline to be the deep playmaker or destroyer (Stevie can do both and his discipline has improved, but I don't think we can keep the shackles on him for more than a few games in a row if required)

I'm very confident Lucas can and will make the grade for Liverpool. He has the best players around him to learn off and that can only help. The ability to cover the three 'stars' is great for us currently, and as he improves, he may become one of, if not the most complete midfielder we've ever had.