Author Topic: The 2019 Formula One Thread (Read 140250 times)

CraigDS · « **Reply #1800 on:** July 12, 2019, 02:34:44 pm »

Quote from: Hellrazor on July 12, 2019, 02:28:09 pm

Gasly quickest in p1

Redbulls currently 2 and 3 in FP2, .8 behind Bottas though.

paulrazor · « **Reply #1801 on:** July 12, 2019, 03:08:25 pm »

Quote from: Craig 🤔 on July 12, 2019, 02:34:44 pm

Redbulls currently 2 and 3 in FP2, .8 behind Bottas though.

Ferrari in between

ConqueredAllOfEurope · « **Reply #1802 on:** July 12, 2019, 11:10:51 pm »

So am I right in saying that the Grand Prix this Sunday will be around the same times as the Wimbledon final and the cricket World Cup final?

gazzalfc · « **Reply #1803 on:** July 13, 2019, 12:03:32 am »

So in the category of things that don't need to be changed in F1 so obviously we are going to talk about changing it....

Refuelling to be brought back in 2021....

Because all we need in F1 is more fires in the pit lanes and exploding cars....

If pit crews still struggle putting on tyres then they cannot be trusted with a high speed fuel pump.

voodoo ray · « **Reply #1804 on:** July 13, 2019, 01:13:50 am »

whenever anyone bangs on about wanting to bring back refuelling I've no idea why.

Upinsmoke · « **Reply #1805 on:** July 13, 2019, 08:11:49 am »

Quote from: voodoo ray on July 13, 2019, 01:13:50 am

whenever anyone bangs on about wanting to bring back refuelling I've no idea why.

I think it adds a different element to strategy. Maybe your car isn't good making tyres last so fuel the car lighter so it coincides with needing new tyres. Theres more unpredictability.

Quote from: gazzalfc on July 13, 2019, 12:03:32 am

If pit crews still struggle putting on tyres then they cannot be trusted with a high speed fuel pump.

The reason they cant change a tyre is because they have to do it in 2 to 3 seconds. They never had that issue when they changed tyres before because refueling gave them more time.

People bang on about fires and stuff, theres no danger left in F1 anymore. There should be an element of risk. Senna didn't die due to fire, neither did ratzenburger or jules bianchi. But they all knew the risk and it wasnt just fire.

Lauda got burnt, he didn't die and he knew the risk and still loved the sport after.

I'd bring back Refuelling, I'd bin DRS, I'd bin ERS, I'd take it back to the early 90's basically, theres too many aids. Id cut off radio chat, Like hamilton said its not a challenge for these new kids coming up from F2, F3 etc. Its supposed to be a big step up and it isn't.

Darren G · « **Reply #1806 on:** July 13, 2019, 08:46:37 am »

Personally, I'd like to see refueling back in F1. As Upinsmoke mentions, it adds another layer to strategy and keeps the viewer guessing as to how things are going to play out, which adds greatly to the entertainment. There is an argument to be had that it makes it more likely that a team will win by strategy rather than 'real racing', but in my opinion the benefits outweigh the cost.

From the safety aspect, there's not really been anything in formula one to suggest that refueling is inherently more dangerous than just changing the tyres during pit stops, where mechanics have also been hurt and more severely so. If you're going to argue against refueling from a safety perspective, then you have to also argue against pit-stops period. The ban in 2010 was not due to safety concerns to the best of my recollection, but rather a cost-cutting measure.

voodoo ray · « **Reply #1807 on:** July 13, 2019, 09:20:37 am »

all refuelling did was lead to people making passes in the pit lane and not the track. it did and does not help the actual on-track racing which should be the #1 priority and everything should be done with that in mind.

TepidT2O · « **Reply #1808 on:** July 13, 2019, 09:22:44 am »

Quote from: voodoo ray on July 13, 2019, 09:20:37 am

all refuelling did was lead to people making passes in the pit lane and not the track. it did and does not help the actual on-track racing which should be the #1 priority and everything should be done with that in mind.

Amen

And given that it adds nothing to the sport, it’s unnecessarily dangerous

eyescream · « **Reply #1809 on:** July 13, 2019, 09:47:27 am »

May be mandatory 2 or 3 stops and/or 5 sec per stop?
It still isn't adding anything directly to racing, but what could be done?

Upinsmoke · « **Reply #1810 on:** July 13, 2019, 09:52:27 am »

Quote from: voodoo ray on July 13, 2019, 09:20:37 am

all refuelling did was lead to people making passes in the pit lane and not the track. it did and does not help the actual on-track racing which should be the #1 priority and everything should be done with that in mind.

Not true. Refuelling determined your qualifying performance and how long you went into the grand prix, so if you were heavier then you'd be slower. Are you saying nobody ever passed on track then when refuelling was part if F1?

But okay let's say it added nothing and only led to over takes in the pit lane...well that still happens with tyres. So if your shit at tyre management you'll inevitably stop earlier maybe more than once and get passed whilst you pit. Or you get passed on the straight because you have someone behind you with DRS open. Honestly I'd rather get passed in the pits than on track with a 30kph advantage because your one second or less behind. How artificially manufactured is that.

There were more passes on track with refuelling than there is on track without use of DRS, nearly every pass on track is because of DRS.

voodoo ray · « **Reply #1811 on:** July 13, 2019, 09:58:15 am »

Quote from: Upinsmoke on July 13, 2019, 09:52:27 am

Not true. Refuelling determined your qualifying performance and how long you went into the grand prix, so if you were heavier then you'd be slower. Are you saying nobody ever passed on track then when refuelling was part if F1?

But okay let's say it added nothing and only led to over takes in the pit lane...well that still happens with tyres. So if your shit at tyre management you'll inevitably stop earlier maybe more than once and get passed whilst you pit. Or you get passed on the straight because you have someone behind you with DRS open. Honestly I'd rather get passed in the pits than on track with a 30kph advantage because your one second or less behind. How artificially manufactured is that.

There were more passes on track with refuelling than there is on track without use of DRS, nearly every pass on track is because of DRS.

tyre management can largely fuck off too.

personally I think it's time to end this project of trying to recreate that race back in canada when the bridgestones fell apart because (as usual, and as they should do) the teams have just found a way around it. every race is just a 1-stopper now and it's pointless.

the only thing that should be considered with any rule change should be "will it improve the on-track racing?" and if the answer is no it should be fucked off. if you nail that then you're not relying on things like 'strategy' to provide entertainment.

"Nookie". · « **Reply #1812 on:** July 13, 2019, 10:09:12 am »

What if they limited the size of the fuel tank to force a minimum of 2 stops, as well as tyres that didn't degrade so much? There would just be an hour of 40 of hard pushing.

voodoo ray · « **Reply #1813 on:** July 13, 2019, 10:17:05 am »

Quote from: "Nookie". on July 13, 2019, 10:09:12 am

What if they limited the size of the fuel tank to force a minimum of 2 stops, as well as tyres that didn't degrade so much? There would just be an hour of 40 of hard pushing.

all that seems to happen in those situations is that the teams encourage their drivers to pootle around to not use so much of 'x' (tyres, fuel, whatever) so you don't get drivers pushing the entire time.

again, make the cars easier to race and you don't need all these things to make it artificially better. it definitely should not be a spec series because that's not what F1 is, but it amazes me (even though it shouldn't by now) that every single year everyone bangs on about the aero being an issue and yet nothing ever gets done about it. or they give with one hand and take away with the other so nothing actually changes. or people keep coming up with these ideas which again aren't actually addressing the problem.

"Nookie". · « **Reply #1814 on:** July 13, 2019, 10:39:16 am »

Quote from: voodoo ray on July 13, 2019, 10:17:05 am

all that seems to happen in those situations is that the teams encourage their drivers to pootle around to not use so much of 'x' (tyres, fuel, whatever) so you don't get drivers pushing the entire time.

again, make the cars easier to race and you don't need all these things to make it artificially better. it definitely should not be a spec series because that's not what F1 is, but it amazes me (even though it shouldn't by now) that every single year everyone bangs on about the aero being an issue and yet nothing ever gets done about it. or they give with one hand and take away with the other so nothing actually changes. or people keep coming up with these ideas which again aren't actually addressing the problem.

That's why I said forcing two stops through fuel tank size. If your tyres could last the whole race with only a little drop off, they'd push because there wouldn't be any benefit not to. They're still going to be making two stops, so may as well push and use up the tyres, no point saving fuel because you can't stretch to a one stop.

But it might mean fuel saving to reduce the pit stop times.. Hmm.

voodoo ray · « **Reply #1815 on:** July 13, 2019, 10:47:52 am »

Quote from: "Nookie". on July 13, 2019, 10:39:16 am

But it might mean fuel saving to reduce the pit stop times.. Hmm.

exactly. teams always find a way because they have smart people working in them.

but if the cars can follow, pass one another and race you don't need to mandate or encourage a certain number of stops because it becomes less important.

"Nookie". · « **Reply #1816 on:** July 13, 2019, 10:49:53 am »

As you say, teams are smart and always find an advantage, I reckon even then they'd find a way of disrupting some of the airflow to make it hard to follow again.

voodoo ray · « **Reply #1817 on:** July 13, 2019, 10:59:02 am »

Quote from: "Nookie". on July 13, 2019, 10:49:53 am

As you say, teams are smart and always find an advantage, I reckon even then they'd find a way of disrupting some of the airflow to make it hard to follow again.

that why you have people way above my pay grade to set the regs. and set the right ones.

jillcwhomever · « **Reply #1818 on:** July 13, 2019, 02:52:19 pm »

Norris has out qualified his team-mate again.

gazzalfc · « **Reply #1819 on:** July 13, 2019, 02:53:45 pm »

Ferrari have lost all their pace this weekend

jillcwhomever · « **Reply #1820 on:** July 13, 2019, 02:55:06 pm »

Quote from: gazzalfc on July 13, 2019, 02:53:45 pm

Ferrari have lost all their pace this weekend

They appear to be messing around with their tyres.

"Nookie". · « **Reply #1821 on:** July 13, 2019, 02:55:26 pm »

They've gone no quicker on the softs than the mediums, surely they must have some time in their pocket somewhere. Actually, this is Ferrari. Going no faster on the faster tyres makes total sense.

jillcwhomever · « **Reply #1822 on:** July 13, 2019, 02:58:59 pm »

All of them appear to be losing some speed, Norris's time was his slowest of the day.

Upinsmoke · « **Reply #1823 on:** July 13, 2019, 02:59:12 pm »

Quote from: "Nookie". on July 13, 2019, 02:55:26 pm

They've gone no quicker on the softs than the mediums, surely they must have some time in their pocket somewhere. Actually, this is Ferrari. Going no faster on the faster tyres makes total sense.

Actually makes complete sense since pirelli made the operating window so small no teams actually know what the window is and the tarmac was resurfaced after the tyre compounds were decided.

gazzalfc · « **Reply #1824 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:01:16 pm »

0.006 seconds...

gazzalfc · « **Reply #1825 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:02:06 pm »

Leclerc nearly pulled off a great lap.

"Nookie". · « **Reply #1826 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:02:31 pm »

Vettel 6 tenths slower than Leclerc.. that's something for him to chew on

El Lobo · « **Reply #1827 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:02:58 pm »

Wow close that

Vettel 6th, behind Pierre Gasly

voodoo ray · « **Reply #1828 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:03:13 pm »

tiny gaps again at the top like last year.

jillcwhomever · « **Reply #1829 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:04:12 pm »

It was funny seeing the girl in the crowd going to celebrate Hamilton's pole, to suddenly realising he hadn't got pole.

b_joseph · « **Reply #1830 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:04:23 pm »

Leclerc stole Vettels lunch and dinner money...wild.

Good on Bottas for getting that pole...good lap by both Mercs in the end

b_joseph · « **Reply #1831 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:05:51 pm »

Quote from: jillc on July 13, 2019, 03:04:12 pm

It was funny seeing the girl in the crowd going to celebrate Hamilton's pole, to suddenly realising he hadn't got pole.

Force of habit 😉

CraigDS · « **Reply #1832 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:05:59 pm »

Wonder what 0.006s looks like in distance - single digit cm?

TepidT2O · « **Reply #1833 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:10:05 pm »

The half life of Organesson between them.

Vettel should retire though... it’s just the edge that’s gone. Why carry on?

voodoo ray · « **Reply #1834 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:11:34 pm »

Quote from: Craig 🤔 on July 13, 2019, 03:05:59 pm

Wonder what 0.006s looks like in distance - single digit cm?

there was a race many years ago when someone and schumacher were (I think) 0.005 apart which they said about about 6 inches.

"Nookie". · « **Reply #1835 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:15:04 pm »

Quote from: voodoo ray on July 13, 2019, 03:11:34 pm

there was a race many years ago when someone and schumacher were (I think) 0.005 apart which they said about about 6 inches.

Depends what speed I guess, but it goes to show just how close it is. Talking less than the distance of a grid slot between the top 3

Upinsmoke · « **Reply #1836 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:21:21 pm »

Vettel got pole 3 races ago so talk of losing the edge or
retirement is hilarious.

reeop · « **Reply #1837 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:26:39 pm »

Quote from: Craig 🤔 on July 13, 2019, 03:05:59 pm

Wonder what 0.006s looks like in distance - single digit cm?

About 30-40cm on a course like Silverstone, insane!

CraigDS · « **Reply #1838 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:27:45 pm »

Quote from: reeop on July 13, 2019, 03:26:39 pm

About 30-40cm on a course like Silverstone, insane!

Yeah just done the maths and it was around 36cm, roughly.

Really is insane over a 5km track!

b_joseph · « **Reply #1839 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:34:22 pm »

Three different teams within two tenths...when was the last time that happened around this place?