Author Topic: County Cricket  (Read 42728 times)

Offline El Lobo

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #360 on: November 17, 2021, 11:12:34 am »
Pretty harrowing stuff, reading through the specifics in his full statement. There's obviously people who come out of it a lot worse, but practically anyone who played for Yorkshire over pretty much two decades probably comes out of it pretty badly.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline CheshireDave

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #361 on: November 17, 2021, 01:07:07 pm »
On an unexpected note, Mickey Arthur is leaving Sri Lanka to become head of cricket at… Derbyshire. Interesting career move.

Likely because Sri Lanka are a complete mess off the field right now.
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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #362 on: November 17, 2021, 01:08:33 pm »
Derbyshire probably pay better too

Offline Legs

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #363 on: November 17, 2021, 01:30:24 pm »
Cricket is still a toffs sport and most Asians arent toffs.

My friend had trails at Notts years ago he wasnt Asian but kind of got overlooked as he went to a public school.

I think with England its if your faces fits KP Monty got booted out even Hales did but Stokes knocks a bloke out but still gets selected.

Offline Sangria

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #364 on: November 17, 2021, 01:44:48 pm »
Cricket is still a toffs sport and most Asians arent toffs.

My friend had trails at Notts years ago he wasnt Asian but kind of got overlooked as he went to a public school.

I think with England its if your faces fits KP Monty got booted out even Hales did but Stokes knocks a bloke out but still gets selected.

I wonder why.

BTW, cricket is overwhelmingly the most popular sport in south Asia. It's more of an obsession there than football is here.
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Offline Gili Gulu

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #365 on: November 17, 2021, 02:18:42 pm »
What kind of team is it that allows one of their mates to be insulted in this way? What kind of people are they? Absolutely disgusting.

I'd like to think that if one of our players was treated like this all of the team would be absolutely furious. You'd probably have to physically hold back Jordan. Our manager would never, ever, stand for anything like this.

The whole thing is just so depressing. I don't think we should be trying to write this off as a class thing, it's a fault in the UK that we all form cliques where loyalty and accepted standards of behaviour too often override important principles. Both major UK parties have this fault, so do other organisations like the Police, Universities and so on.
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Offline Legs

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #366 on: November 17, 2021, 02:41:36 pm »
I wonder why.

BTW, cricket is overwhelmingly the most popular sport in south Asia. It's more of an obsession there than football is here.

We know he is world class but my point is Hales got axed for drug use whilst one was done for assault.

One gets banned for life even though the ECB didnt say that the other is made vice captain.

Lets tell it how it is its all about your face fitting.

I think football is abit different as dressing rooms have had different cultures for a long time it has to stop and I think it will do now.

You will still get bad uns going forward but we have all met them in life.

Offline Zee_26

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #367 on: November 17, 2021, 03:27:56 pm »
There's an interesting parallel to what's happening in England and what's just gone on in SA. They've just completed hearings on bullying and racist behaviour going back over the past twenty years and more. And again, there were some damning stories on high-profile ex players using banter as an excuse for deplorable behaviour. Paul Adams claimed Mark Boucher and many others frequently called him brown shit instead of his actual name. Ntini has said he was completely ignored for any social events and isolated within the team.

These are not normal behaviours but I find it amazing that referring to it as banter makes it seem normal to people's eyes. If there's a certain way of dressing room behaviour going back years, how does that make it right in any way. It's actually much much worse because it's been institutionalised. Tradition means nothing if it's morally bankrupt.

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #368 on: November 17, 2021, 04:20:42 pm »
Football is getting an easy ride of it right now. During the committee yesterday they even seemed to frame football as being more diverse and what’s it getting right in comparison to cricket but Im not willing to agree. Britain Asian representation in English football is almost non existent, it’s even worse than cricket. By all means look at cricket and rightly force it do much, much better but other sports should be quaking because their time in the spotlight will be coming and I doubt it’s a pile more pleasant.

Offline Legs

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #369 on: November 17, 2021, 04:41:03 pm »
Cricket is abit different as I think you have to play 9-10 homegrown players in county cricket making it easier to create a clique ?

Football is very different you can have 80% of foreign players in most pro leagues.

Im not going to suggest it doesnt happen in football dressing rooms as it will do somewhere but the playing squads are so diverse I cant see players putting up with it in most countries.


Offline Sangria

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #370 on: November 17, 2021, 05:14:05 pm »
Cricket is abit different as I think you have to play 9-10 homegrown players in county cricket making it easier to create a clique ?

Football is very different you can have 80% of foreign players in most pro leagues.

Im not going to suggest it doesnt happen in football dressing rooms as it will do somewhere but the playing squads are so diverse I cant see players putting up with it in most countries.

It's jock culture, and a surfeit of masculinity. It's present in all team sports. English football is lucky in that there are a number of good role models on the current scene. Prior to that, I doubt football was any more pleasant than cricket.
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Offline Legs

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #371 on: November 17, 2021, 05:24:42 pm »
It's jock culture, and a surfeit of masculinity. It's present in all team sports. English football is lucky in that there are a number of good role models on the current scene. Prior to that, I doubt football was any more pleasant than cricket.

Yeah I agree same with rugby.

I was just trying to think of reasons why cricket is the in story at the minute.

I think at England national team level im not sure it is there but there is defo a face fits agenda Moeen Leach are two examples.

Then you look at crap like Vince/Ballance getting several chances when they go back to CC and average 50-60 but their technique hasnt changed at all so when you step up you get found out AGAIN !

Offline Sangria

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #372 on: November 17, 2021, 05:55:27 pm »
Yeah I agree same with rugby.

I was just trying to think of reasons why cricket is the in story at the minute.

I think at England national team level im not sure it is there but there is defo a face fits agenda Moeen Leach are two examples.

Then you look at crap like Vince/Ballance getting several chances when they go back to CC and average 50-60 but their technique hasnt changed at all so when you step up you get found out AGAIN !

If you're outraged at the last bit, you must not have been watching us in the 1990s.
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Offline Mighty_Red

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #373 on: November 17, 2021, 05:55:40 pm »
Football is getting an easy ride of it right now. During the committee yesterday they even seemed to frame football as being more diverse and what’s it getting right in comparison to cricket but Im not willing to agree. Britain Asian representation in English football is almost non existent, it’s even worse than cricket. By all means look at cricket and rightly force it do much, much better but other sports should be quaking because their time in the spotlight will be coming and I doubt it’s a pile more pleasant.

There was a series of reports on the BBC a couple of years on this. There were 9 year old kids being abused by opposition players. Coaches have a stereotype of asian footballers being physically weak or not committed enough and aren't taken seriously.

Apart from the obvious overt racism, negative perceptions and stereotyping is what often holds back people of colour in many situations.

Think how many muslim footballers we have playing in England and how many are actually British? Probably a handful, and even less from an Asian background.

Apparently there's been over 1000 calls to the helpline already. Hoping this actually starts changing things at the top. I'm still a little sceptical when you still get the canned statements of "we oppose all racism" and "zero tolarance" when all the evidences points to the contrary.

Perhaps when they mean zero tolerance, they mean zero tolerance to other cultures.
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Offline Legs

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #374 on: November 17, 2021, 07:52:40 pm »
If you're outraged at the last bit, you must not have been watching us in the 1990s.

I did see us in the 90s dont remind me !

What im saying is people got picked on if their face fits and we know Ballance get recalled on the advice of Root, which is poor judgement imo.


Offline thaddeus

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #375 on: November 17, 2021, 09:28:20 pm »
Pretty harrowing stuff, reading through the specifics in his full statement. There's obviously people who come out of it a lot worse, but practically anyone who played for Yorkshire over pretty much two decades probably comes out of it pretty badly.
Played or coached or really had any association with Yorkshire CCC.  Rafiq reeled off a long list of groups and media that all called Pujara "Steve" even though Pujara had said he didn't want them to.

By the sounds of it Jason Gillespie comes out of it with a bit of credit but the rest are all implicitly involved.

Offline bornandbRED

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #376 on: November 18, 2021, 01:14:53 am »
The problem is that subconscious bias is such a hard thing to quantify and resolve.

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Offline jonkrux

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #378 on: November 18, 2021, 09:10:28 am »

Offline scatman

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #379 on: November 18, 2021, 11:10:01 am »
There was a series of reports on the BBC a couple of years on this. There were 9 year old kids being abused by opposition players. Coaches have a stereotype of asian footballers being physically weak or not committed enough and aren't taken seriously.

Apart from the obvious overt racism, negative perceptions and stereotyping is what often holds back people of colour in many situations.

Think how many muslim footballers we have playing in England and how many are actually British? Probably a handful, and even less from an Asian background.

Apparently there's been over 1000 calls to the helpline already. Hoping this actually starts changing things at the top. I'm still a little sceptical when you still get the canned statements of "we oppose all racism" and "zero tolarance" when all the evidences points to the contrary.

Perhaps when they mean zero tolerance, they mean zero tolerance to other cultures.

There's plenty of muslim footballers playing in England. Plenty. Don't know if you noticed but we have quite a few at our club. British Asian footballers? you can probably count them on one hand. The huge difference between cricket and football is that British Asians are more represented at higher levels in cricket than at football. I know plenty of lads who were really good football players but were equally as good if not better at cricket than their peers, they always choose to pursue club cricket. Maybe that was due to barriers of entry at the time but now, football clubs hover up all the talent regardless of ethnicity, culture. They don't care. In cricket its not the same.
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Offline Mighty_Red

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #380 on: November 18, 2021, 01:50:10 pm »
There's plenty of muslim footballers playing in England. Plenty. Don't know if you noticed but we have quite a few at our club. British Asian footballers? you can probably count them on one hand. The huge difference between cricket and football is that British Asians are more represented at higher levels in cricket than at football. I know plenty of lads who were really good football players but were equally as good if not better at cricket than their peers, they always choose to pursue club cricket. Maybe that was due to barriers of entry at the time but now, football clubs hover up all the talent regardless of ethnicity, culture. They don't care. In cricket its not the same.
Sorry I meant there are loads of Muslim footballers in the Prem, just not many are British. There's been lots of stories of British Asian footballers not getting the chances and I guess the only way we'll know things are changing is the number getting into academies.

Choosing cricket over football is obviously a factor, probably because generally cricket allows you to continue studies for longer so you have a backup plan. Footballers tend to go all in much earlier but it does mean it's hard if you don't make it.

Then of course you hit the old boys network. Sometimes easier to fit in if you went to the right school and/or drink but I can imagine it's not the same if you don't and Rafiq's testimony proves that.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #381 on: November 18, 2021, 01:54:44 pm »
Sorry I meant there are loads of Muslim footballers in the Prem, just not many are British. There's been lots of stories of British Asian footballers not getting the chances and I guess the only way we'll know things are changing is the number getting into academies.

Choosing cricket over football is obviously a factor, probably because generally cricket allows you to continue studies for longer so you have a backup plan. Footballers tend to go all in much earlier but it does mean it's hard if you don't make it.

Then of course you hit the old boys network. Sometimes easier to fit in if you went to the right school and/or drink but I can imagine it's not the same if you don't and Rafiq's testimony proves that.

Also parent culture. South Asian countries are overwhelmingly cricket. The first generation immigrants will also be overwhelmingly cricket. The second generation will still take after their parents to some extent.
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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #382 on: November 18, 2021, 09:33:56 pm »
Rafiq has had an old tweet from 2011 dredged up where he said something Anti-Semitic.

Very frustrating because it’s given licence to every Talk Sport listening Sun reading idiot to now try and discredit everything he’s said in recent times as if that not has to be false.

Offline bornandbRED

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #383 on: November 18, 2021, 10:13:05 pm »
That’s his credibility gone in many people’s eyes unfortunately. A sure fire way to water down his message.

Offline Circa1892

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #384 on: November 18, 2021, 10:21:56 pm »
Rafiqs personal flaws are irrelevant.

Let’s say it turns out he’s an absolutely massive dickhead, and a bully himself. He’s not accusing people of being rude to him or calling him a dick or excluding him on personality grounds - he’s describing systematic racism and institutional failings across cricket. Why should someone be perfect for them to expose others wrongdoing.

Offline Circa1892

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #385 on: November 18, 2021, 10:23:17 pm »
One of my favourite comments of the day was from one of the GB News or Talkshite folk talking about how Ollie Robinson had been drummed out of cricket for the same thing and Rafiq should be.

Clearly a massive cricket fan given one of the two will be (rightly for me) first change bowler in the Ashes in a few weeks and the other runs a chippy.

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #386 on: November 18, 2021, 10:23:56 pm »
Rafiqs personal flaws are irrelevant.

Let’s say it turns out he’s an absolutely massive dickhead, and a bully himself. He’s not accusing people of being rude to him or calling him a dick or excluding him on personality grounds - he’s describing systematic racism and institutional failings across cricket. Why should someone be perfect for them to expose others wrongdoing.

I don’t disagree but it will certainly be downplayed in certain quarters now.

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #387 on: November 18, 2021, 10:26:13 pm »
That’s his credibility gone in many people’s eyes unfortunately. A sure fire way to water down his message.

I suppose the difference is that he made crass comments about Jews to a mate but didn't make those comments face to face to a Jew, unlike the racist comments made directly to his face.

A question of degree I suppose.

Offline Circa1892

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #388 on: November 18, 2021, 10:27:23 pm »
I don’t disagree but it will certainly be downplayed in certain quarters now.

Yep. Piers Moron for example remembered he’s an avid cricket fan to launch into the attack.

Thing is for all of them - they couldn’t give a shiny shit about what he said or the people who may have been offended, it’s about preserving the status quo, getting Vaughny back on the radio.

Offline Circa1892

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #389 on: November 18, 2021, 10:28:02 pm »
I suppose the difference is that he made crass comments about Jews to a mate but didn't make those comments face to face to a Jew, unlike the racist comments made directly to his face.

A question of degree I suppose.

There’s also a difference between poor comments online and pouring wine down a 15 year old Muslims throat.

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #390 on: November 18, 2021, 10:32:24 pm »
There’s also a difference between poor comments online and pouring wine down a 15 year old Muslims throat.

I thought they were texts. Didn't realise it was Facebook.

But 19 year old making stupid comments shocker opposed to continual 'banter' and what seems to be a 'hazing' culture.

Offline Port_vale_lad

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #391 on: November 18, 2021, 10:48:11 pm »
I would imagine everyone at the age of 19 - 20 has said something racist / that could offend.

If you haven't you are a fecking liar.

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #392 on: November 18, 2021, 10:52:50 pm »
I would imagine everyone at the age of 19 - 20 has said something racist / that could offend.

If you haven't you are a fecking liar.

The problem now us that once you commit your youthful stupidity to social media it's there for eternity.

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #393 on: November 18, 2021, 11:30:57 pm »
Yeah it’s not about whether Rafiq is a shining light of a person or not but about the extent of institutional racism in cricket/society. That’s the key message to transmit but it will be diluted heavily unfortunately by this, especially in the eyes of the people who want to disregard this anyway.

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #394 on: November 19, 2021, 09:07:00 am »
they're not the same at all and everyone knows that, but those with agendas will cryarse that they are the same.

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #395 on: November 19, 2021, 10:07:26 am »
It adds corroboration to watch Ballance said about the language Rafiq used, but it doesn't invalidate his claims. Ollie Robertson got heat for tweets as a 19/20 year old, seems there is no 'statute of limitations' when it comes to historical tweets.   It's a good thing for Rafiq that wasn't found earlier though as that could have been problematic for him.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2021, 10:09:04 am by Clayton Bigsby »

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #396 on: November 19, 2021, 01:02:15 pm »
It adds corroboration to watch Ballance said about the language Rafiq used, but it doesn't invalidate his claims. Ollie Robertson got heat for tweets as a 19/20 year old, seems there is no 'statute of limitations' when it comes to historical tweets.   It's a good thing for Rafiq that wasn't found earlier though as that could have been problematic for him.

The “dossier”’ Yorkshire staff were creating probably had stuff like this. But again, it’s not really the point. If someone’s a knob and you call them a knob that’s fair play. If you racially abuse them for it not so much…

Offline Mighty_Red

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #397 on: November 19, 2021, 01:17:01 pm »
It adds corroboration to watch Ballance said about the language Rafiq used, but it doesn't invalidate his claims. Ollie Robertson got heat for tweets as a 19/20 year old, seems there is no 'statute of limitations' when it comes to historical tweets.   It's a good thing for Rafiq that wasn't found earlier though as that could have been problematic for him.

It's true, I wonder how much of an effect having such language "normalised" that leads to everyone using that language, including Rafiq - the "Love Thy Neighbour" kind of name calling each other where the victim uses that language to get back at the perpetrators.

Also important to remember that racism and other types of prejudice permeates all sections of society across the world. For example many ethnic minorities have been very homophobic and even sections of the LGBT community have been racist. Think we all need to learn how to be kinder to each other, and remember our own experiences of discrimination before we discriminate towards others.

Rafiq did mention the other day that if you apologise and educate yourself you can still move forward so I guess he is taking his own advice.

Now it's up to the authorities to actually improve the cultures and structures that allow this to continue.
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Offline Port_vale_lad

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #398 on: November 21, 2021, 09:41:35 am »
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/azeem-rafiq-accused-of-sending-creepy-messages-to-teenage-girl-six-years-ago-3464984

Knives are coming out now, did say from the start there is something unlikable about him.

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Re: County Championship 2021
« Reply #399 on: November 21, 2021, 10:07:36 am »
sadly inevitable. after all, if you can't attack the message then attack the messenger.