Topic: Munich Chants/Banners

[stockdam]

It's time that LFC stated that anyone displaying offensive banners or being caught on camera or by the police singing about it will be banned for life from all games.

This kind of behaviour has nothing to do with our proud past. The Munich disaster was simply that......a disaster where some very good footballers were killed.

Ok so I know why the chanting starts but that doesn't make it right.

The club should announce that very severe measures will be used against anyone trying to incite trouble or to cause offense.

This sort of childish behaviour is on a par with the idiots who used to throw bananas at John Barnes.

LFC should be above such pathetic nonsense. As supporters we should ask the club to take action and we also should boo anyone who starts offensive singing towards the opposition.

We support the best team in the world and we should not condone anything that lowers our club to the levels of other lesser clubs.

[gallden]

It's time that LFC stated that anyone displaying offensive banners or being caught on camera or by the police singing about it will be banned for life from all games.

This kind of behaviour has nothing to do with our proud past. The Munich disaster was simply that......a disaster where some very good footballers were killed.

Ok so I know why the chanting starts but that doesn't make it right.

The club should announce that very severe measures will be used against anyone trying to incite trouble or to cause offense.

This sort of childish behaviour is on a par with the idiots who used to throw bananas at John Barnes.

LFC should be above such pathetic nonsense. As supporters we should ask the club to take action and we also should boo anyone who starts offensive singing towards the opposition.

We support the best team in the world and we should not condone anything that lowers our club to the levels of other lesser clubs.

[Paul JH]

Is there really any reason to start a thread drawing attention to the pricks who do it?
We know, it's wrong. It won't stop people who want to do it doing it though....

[-Sad Fuck-]

What's more idiotic are the people that are proud of doing it, and posting it on youtube, it makes us all look bad.

[stockdam]

Yes we know it's wrong and I'm sorry if the thread seems pointless. But it needs to stop and allowing it to happen needs to stop.

[wmm_ynwa]

Is there really any reason to start a thread drawing attention to the pricks who do it?
We know, it's wrong. It won't stop people who want to do it doing it though....

[stockdam]

What's more idiotic are the people that are proud of doing it, and posting it on youtube, it makes us all look bad.

Youtube isn't Anfield. LFC needs to take the lead and to show that it is wrong and will not be tolerated.

[-Sad Fuck-]

Youtube isn't Anfield. LFC needs to take the lead and to show that it is wrong and will not be tolerated.

Never said it was, I'm on about twunts who uploaded stuff from the match on Saturday.

[conman]

i have to agree with the posting, i dont see it improving without exposure from within....
i cant believe they would sing about another teams grief, and then turn around to respect our own... its two faced..

we of all clubs should not be involved in this, if we didnt rile up and react to utd + evertonians singing it,
they would get bored of singing it to us..

id like to think we are better than what a few thousand or so are portraying..

[carling]

Guy behind me at Old Trafford was shouting it all game and trying to get songs going about it, luckily no-one else joined in.

[redmark]

Is there really any reason to start a thread drawing attention to the pricks who do it?
We know, it's wrong. It won't stop people who want to do it doing it though....

Though I expect the thread will be deleted, I think it's absolutely time to start discussing it as clearly far too many fans think it's a laugh, it's acceptable, it's justified by their behaviour etc. Time for what I hope is the quiet majority to state that such idiots are letting down the club and basically are no better than the Mancs or Evertonians who call us murderers, etc.

[Tiger Tony]

I'll continue to sing nasty songs about Mancs when we are playing them while they continue to make banners and sing shit songs about us EVERY FUCKIN GAME they play.

People disagree fine, but I can't tolerate them and I am sick of people giving it the 'we should be the better man' like we should make effort to make the derby more friendly when it's entirely Everton's fault it has gone down the pan. Fuck them all, it's their fault it's got this bad so they can be the better man first, not us.

[STORMTROOPER]

totally agree

[stockdam]

Never said it was, I'm on about twunts who uploaded stuff from the match on Saturday.

Sorry. I agree with you.

[redprodigal]

I'll continue to sing nasty songs about Mancs when we are playing them while they continue to make banners and sing shit songs about us EVERY FUCKIN GAME they play.

People disagree fine, but I can't tolerate them and I am sick of people giving it the 'we should be the better man' like we should make effort to make the derby more friendly when it's entirely Everton's fault it has gone down the pan. Fuck them all, it's their fault it's got this bad so they can be the better man first, not us.

I know exactly what you mean mate, I posted this on another thread and it sums it up for me:

When I was a young lad going to the games there was a few times when I joined in with the Munich chants. Mostly they were times when I was retaliating to the actions of the mindless scum that used to follow Utd in the early seventies and onwards and usually when I'd had about 8 pints of lager before the game.
I remember in the early days the chant was very often shouted down with boos by most of the kopites but it started to get worse over the years as the rivalry between the teams became more bitter, the height of that being around the time of the 2-2 semi final at Goodison and the replay at Maine Road.
As I grew older the chants seemed to go into decline and then the Hillsborough disaster happened. As I was in the middle of it all that day you can imagine it changed the way I looked at things and needless to say I along with many others would never dream of getting involved in anything like that again. It took something like that to really bring it home to be honest.
Most of this chanting is done these days be the younger lads, most of those lads have no idea what it was like to be involved in either tragedy.
It's just give and take, the murderers chant, the banners, the without killing anyone songs as well as the Munich chants from our side. The same goes for the Evertonians doing the choking actions etc. It's all about retaliating to each other.
Both sides are to blame, how do you stop it, no idea mate, maybe if both clubs threatened to ban anyone caught either by the bizzies or on camera it would be a start. They do that with racism so why not with this?

[Strummer77]

I'll continue to sing nasty songs about Mancs when we are playing them while they continue to make banners and sing shit songs about us EVERY FUCKIN GAME they play.

The real answer would be to respond to the United fans by singing a song/chant highlighting how pathetic they are to the songs about Heysel and Hillsborough. Could be something ridiculously simple like "You sick bastards!" unless someone can make something a bit more witty .

[CF999]

I'll continue to sing nasty songs about Mancs when we are playing them while they continue to make banners and sing shit songs about us EVERY FUCKIN GAME they play.

Agree.

People get pissed off at what the mancs do but think "oh no we're LFC we have class, MUST NOT RESPOND".  The mancs don't gives a shit if we have 'class', nobody does. They had a murderers banner on satday and everything they sing is about scousers and heysel. Shower of fucking twats, give them hell I say.

[-Sad Fuck-]

Don't get me wrong, but if they start it off, I'm not moan at those who sing back. Taking an inflatable plane into the ground on the other hand, is an entirely different matter, it's premeditated.

[stockdam]

I'll continue to sing nasty songs about Mancs when we are playing them while they continue to make banners and sing shit songs about us EVERY FUCKIN GAME they play.

People disagree fine, but I can't tolerate them and I am sick of people giving it the 'we should be the better man' like we should make effort to make the derby more friendly when it's entirely Everton's fault it has gone down the pan. Fuck them all, it's their fault it's got this bad so they can be the better man first, not us.

Ok you are entitled to your opinion but I can't agree with your logic. I just hope that the club doesn't agree with your views. Utd as a club should stop it on their side and LFC should stop it on ours.

[redmark]

As I grew older the chants seemed to go into decline and then the Hillsborough disaster happened. As I was in the middle of it all that day you can imagine it changed the way I looked at things and needless to say I along with many others would never dream of getting involved in anything like that again. It took something like that to really bring it home to be honest. Most of this chanting is done these days be the younger lads, most of those lads have no idea what it was like to be involved in either tragedy.

I suspect that the start of the 'recovery' of the bitterness dates from March 6th, 1993, Anfield. United fans booed, jeered and sang through a minutes silence for Tony Bland, the 96th victim who died 3 days earlier. The venom from the Kop at the end of the minutes silence was absolutely staggering (even being part of it). I firmly believe the Munich crap was reborn after that day, after dying down over the previous years following the tragedies of Heysel and Hillsborough bringing a more proper perspective to matters of life and death.

Both United and Liverpool fans - rather, some fans - lost the moral high ground on this matter long ago. We're about as bad as each other these days. I hope somehow we (both clubs) do something about it before we do actually meet in a major final, probably the CL, and a bunch of young lads with no real clue beat each other to death.

[Rome-77]

but what gets me is the[  without killing anyone song] is sung by most of the fucking ground.

[electricghost]

I'll continue to sing nasty songs about Mancs when we are playing them while they continue to make banners and sing shit songs about us EVERY FUCKIN GAME they play.

People disagree fine, but I can't tolerate them and I am sick of people giving it the 'we should be the better man' like we should make effort to make the derby more friendly when it's entirely Everton's fault it has gone down the pan. Fuck them all, it's their fault it's got this bad so they can be the better man first, not us.

An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind.

[CF999]

Utd as a club should stop it on their side and LFC should stop it on ours.

What can either club do?

[taters]

Been going Old Trafford year in year out & same old shit thread after every time we play them and were still be talking about the same shit in 20 years time it will not go away.
Some people on here need to get real .
I got goated on Saturday outside couldn't resist giving it back to some knob head Manc's calling us Murderers and loads of them laughing at us got pulled out by some steward he mumbled something then told me to go and queue up again.

[redprodigal]

What can either club do?

............ maybe if both clubs threatened to ban anyone caught either by the bizzies or on camera it would be a start. They do that with racism so why not with this?

[redmark]

What can either club do?

Banners and (in our case, though it was at OT) inflatable aeroplanes can be kept out of the ground. Those most intent on starting up certain chants can be evicted and if necessary banned. It's not rocket science.

[guest]

We're about as bad as each other these days.

No chance.

[Terry de Niro]

Too many "so called fans" from both sides who haven't got a fucking clue about football, least of all the tragic disasters that involved both clubs.

[stockdam]

What can either club do?

I don't have the answer but I think we should ask them to consider doing something. Racist chants aren't acceptable and anti-Munich chants should be treated in the same way.

[hoonin]

I'll continue to sing nasty songs about Mancs when we are playing them while they continue to make banners and sing shit songs about us EVERY FUCKIN GAME they play.

I know you personally and know full well that's what you'll do, but what a fucking bankrupt argument.

"I keep doing it cos they do it"

Is that what you've rationislied it down to? Jesus wept.

[Armin]

Agree.

People get pissed off at what the mancs do but think "oh no we're LFC we have class, MUST NOT RESPOND".  The mancs don't gives a shit if we have 'class', nobody does. They had a murderers banner on satday and everything they sing is about scousers and heysel. Shower of fucking twats, give them hell I say.

The biggest problem with yourself and Tony's position is the assumption that the Mancs, or more particularly the Mancs that sing the Hillsborough slurs don't want you to sing these songs. That you are somehow 'giving them hell'.

This is one of the most stupid viewpoints I've ever seen advanced on a football forum (and I've seen loads). I know Tony and I know he's not a stupid lad but I also know he's been in the away end at OT and watched the pondlife stand up and make the airplane gestures towards us. I know he's seen this and I know he's smart enough to realise exactly what they want.

And then both Tony and you give it to them.

That's what I don't understand. You can't honestly believe that any song you sing bothers them because no-one is that stupid. If you gave it a moments thought and actually listened to them singing at you 'where's your famous munich song' they're even telling you what they want. They hate you, they think you're scum, they think you're thick and the one thing they want more than anything is for you to lower yourself so they can congratulate each other on being right.

Now perhaps you have some deep, clever, well thought out rationale for doing exactly what these people want. If so I'd love to hear it because I've spent ages trying to work out how exactly you singing a song which doesn't bother them in the slightest but allows them to justify their own sick chants, ones which do bother a vast number of our own support, is in any way 'striking back'.

Fact is I don't think it's anything of the sort. I think it's a really weak excuse for not having the sort of self control and discipline which really would hurt them. Why play into your enemies hands? Why give them the satisfaction? Is it stupidity or is there really some thought process going on here that I can't follow?

[CF999]

We're about as bad as each other these days.

They sing about Heysel every game they play. Liverpool fans sing about them twice a year.

[Barney_Rubble]

Singing Munich songs is also disrespectful to those who died at Hillsborough.

Is that so difficult to understand?

[Yorkshire-Red]

Is there really any reason to start a thread drawing attention to the pricks who do it?
We know, it's wrong. It won't stop people who want to do it doing it though....

Mmm hmmm... This is exactly the kind of thinking that allowed racist abuse to prosper inthe past. Stand up and be heard.

[redprodigal]

Singing Munich songs is also disrespectful to those who died at Hillsborough.

Is that so difficult to understand?

Spot on.

[Bennyo]

Well said Stockdam

[24/7]

Singing Munich songs is also disrespectful to those who died at Hillsborough.

Is that so difficult to understand?

Fuckin right - both you and Armin - nail, head, hit on.

When I was 12, a Munich song was "funny" in much the same way that a picture of a vagina in a porn mag was "funny" or a cream cake in your mate's face was "funny" or watching dogs on heat in Sevvie Park having a biff was "funny".......

But when you're 12 and entering puberty and learning all about cock-waving-alpha-male-fucking-bullshit, EVERY cocking thing is potentially "funny".

So now, in the year 2009, do we REALLY have to debate this??

Personally I don't give a flying fuck what your logic is, if you think it's "okay" or more bizarrely "justified" to sing a Munich song or wave a plane, "just cos they do bad stuff to us waaaaaah!", especially in this of all fucking years, then I am going to personally ridicule you at every possible opporfuckingtunity.

Starting tomorrow. Live on air.

GROW THE FUCK UP and learn something.

As for what the clubs can do to deal with this bollocks, E D U C A T I O N sanctioned by the clubs themselves - backed up by clear-cut consequential action.

Simple, isn't it.

[redmark]

They sing about Heysel every game they play. Liverpool fans sing about them twice a year.

My 'we're about as bad as each other these days' point wasn't about (or contradicted by) the frequency or numbers, but the stupidity and danger of it. When it does all kick off in some major European city for a CL Final - maybe this year in Rome - unfortunately it's most likely not the 'hard men' of either club's extreme supporters who'll get knifed, but some poor kid who'd never dream of singing about Munich or Heysel or Hillsborough.

[Lionel Rich Tea]

Spot on.

Agreed. And conversely, on the other side of the coin for the Man U fans:

Singing Murderer / Hillsborough songs is also disrespectful to those who died at Munich.

I like that argument, if you had any ounce of respect for the history of your own club, then you would know not to cross that line.

I do see where some quarters are coming from though, there is a difference between 25,000 people singing such songs and a few dozen.

[conman]

I suspect that the start of the 'recovery' of the bitterness dates from March 6th, 1993, Anfield. United fans booed, jeered and sang through a minutes silence for Tony Bland, the 96th victim who died 3 days earlier. The venom from the Kop at the end of the minutes silence was absolutely staggering (even being part of it). I firmly believe the Munich crap was reborn after that day, after dying down over the previous years following the tragedies of Heysel and Hillsborough bringing a more proper perspective to matters of life and death.

Both United and Liverpool fans - rather, some fans - lost the moral high ground on this matter long ago. We're about as bad as each other these days. I hope somehow we (both clubs) do something about it before we do actually meet in a major final, probably the CL, and a bunch of young lads with no real clue beat each other to death.

well said, i never knew when it began, but id like that LFC treat this much better, basically give them a warning, kick them out and not let them in again... they will only continue if they can get away with it..

its easy to see some people dont have respect for life, but to exert that on the rest of us and the families of those affected!! shame on you..