Author Topic: Naby Keita Watch  (Read 1888950 times)

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10920 on: September 17, 2021, 07:04:00 pm »
The goals came from completely the other side of the pitch, however that doesn't really matter at all, because we paid so much money for him he should have the ability to cover the entire midfield single handedly

 ;D

Offline ep1987

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10921 on: September 17, 2021, 11:47:54 pm »
Not trying to force anyone into replying for this, but I do think I won't get a logical answer for this, thereby it's clear that the criticisms on him related to the Milan game are grossly unwarranted.

Saelemaekers

https://youtu.be/iHVB6Ed44Ug?t=251

Plenty of time for Naby to react to the long ball and plug the space.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10922 on: September 18, 2021, 12:50:04 am »
Klopp discussing Thiago but the #8 role applies to Naby as well

"It’s a complex position to be the No.8 for us."

"We have different skill sets and we use different skill sets from time to time when we think a particular skill set makes more sense against a particular opponent.

"Sometimes it is the idea to make more runs in behind, and sometimes you want to be more naturally offensive or more naturally defensive. That’s the reason for different line-ups."

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10923 on: September 18, 2021, 02:46:09 am »
Saelemaekers

https://youtu.be/iHVB6Ed44Ug?t=251

Plenty of time for Naby to react to the long ball and plug the space.

Okay, why is Saelemaekers Keita's man? If it's man to man, as a wide attacker, he should be Robbo's man isn't it? If Zonal, he should be Fabinho's as he was dead central? Both Leao and Saelemaekers moved to the middle here, so the solution is for the CBs to have stepped up and played Rebic offside. Also, Keita was deeper than Fabi here, so it's not for the lack of tracking back? In fact, Keita was central helping out when it wasn't particularly his job at all, knowing they cut through our midfield from our right side.

This is ridiculous scapegoating and as I suspected, not logical.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 02:48:17 am by PoetryInMotion »

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10924 on: September 18, 2021, 08:28:35 am »

First time I’ve looked back on the goal and Keita is clearly out of position here. In defensive transitions we need to get narrow and compact as soon as possible. Keita is 5-yards ahead of where he should be which has given the Milan player time and space between the lines.

That doesn’t make him responsible for the goal but it contributed.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 08:30:16 am by Funky_Gibbons »
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Offline Fiasco

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10925 on: September 18, 2021, 09:16:58 am »
It has been explained by several people why the situation is now different to that which existed when Keita was first bought and why, therefore, his role has to change.

He hasn't been restricted, he is playing a role that is there to be played

In what way exactly? Regardless of the situation or his role, he just isn't the same player physically. Optically it is quite obvious. Now someone will throw stats at me and say his numbers or pressing stats are similar to what they were before we bought him but the lad always looks like he's running through custard and he struggles to complete 90 minutes, not to mention his terrible injury record.

I like him, he's something a touch different but he's not the level of player we thought we were buying for one reason or another.

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10926 on: September 18, 2021, 09:20:41 am »
Utter bollocks about his tackles. And he's really disciplined, he's almost a Gini now. There's no general problem in his defending whatsoever.

I mean I could just come back to you and say you're chatting utter bollocks as well but it doesn't make for interesting discussion does it?

To say he's as disciplined as Gini is laughable. When Keita plays, there are more gaps for the opposition to exploit. Its pretty obvious by now and if you can't see that then I can't help you.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 09:22:39 am by LallanaInPyjamas »

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10927 on: September 18, 2021, 09:30:29 am »
Looking to give him a new contract.

Offline JC the Messiah

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10928 on: September 18, 2021, 09:43:47 am »
Looking to give him a new contract.

Where?
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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10929 on: September 18, 2021, 11:38:36 am »

First time I’ve looked back on the goal and Keita is clearly out of position here. In defensive transitions we need to get narrow and compact as soon as possible. Keita is 5-yards ahead of where he should be which has given the Milan player time and space between the lines.

That doesn’t make him responsible for the goal but it contributed.

If we're going there, then what exactly is Fabinho doing? He isn't blocking the passing lane. He isn't pressing anyone. It's very easy to post a pic and call any player out of position in a game of 90 minutes.

After the pass was made, Keita chased Saelemaekers, tried to put some pressure, but obviously the gap between the midfield and defense was too much by then. At that time, the rest of the midfield, including Fabinho and Hendo were well ahead of the area of the action, unable to get behind and the damage was done. In the next frames, you would also see Gomez going too deep, compounding the gap between midfield and defense. I can fault the whole midfield and defense for that goal, and there were some worse offenders there in the next few frames that you're calmly ignoring and on top of all that, it was a well worked goal. Signalling him out for this sequence makes no sense.

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10930 on: September 18, 2021, 11:44:04 am »
I mean I could just come back to you and say you're chatting utter bollocks as well but it doesn't make for interesting discussion does it?

To say he's as disciplined as Gini is laughable. When Keita plays, there are more gaps for the opposition to exploit. Its pretty obvious by now and if you can't see that then I can't help you.

I didn't say 'you were chatting utter bollocks'. I said the point about him making weak tackles was utter bollocks. How can someone press well and still be weak in a tackle. A good press sends the opposition behind and opposition doesn't go behind when the presser is a weak tackler. Keita has won the ball high up plenty of times.

He has been playing Gini's game for a while, and if you can't see that, I'd say the same to you what Klopp said to those who don't rate Matip.

Frankly, my only concern with him is his fitness. If he plays a run of games this season, I have no concerns about the results that we will get, and I'm very sure that he'll make quite a few of you eat your words.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 11:53:18 am by PoetryInMotion »

Offline markmywords

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10931 on: September 18, 2021, 12:05:38 pm »

 
We agreed a deal for Keita in August 2017. At the time, our FBs were Moreno and Clyne. We were dependent on our midfield to move the ball forwards. Following an injury to Clyne in summer 2017, Trent was given a prolonged stint as first choice RB, and Robertson took over as first choice LB that season. With the injury to Ox, we moved towards using the FBs as our primary way of advancing play. By the time Keita arrived, both Robertson and Trent were established FBs.


In 2018 with Trent and Robbo firmly established at fb, we tried buy Fekir for 50m+ (which is a fortune for us) I don't think we were doing that to ask 'fekir to be a more defensive no.8 type.  I think Jurgen looks at his options and builds the team around the guys who he thinks will be the most dangerous options.  If he had a world beating, game changer in centre midfield he would let him off the leash, he seems to no longer believe that he has that in keita, so ultimately he seems to have changed his role accordingly, if Keita had performed like we had hoped we wouldn't be asking him to do the role he is currently doing, it's a similiar story for ox. OX, Keita (and even Gini )don't appear to be seen as potentially dangerous as Robbo or Trent.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10932 on: September 18, 2021, 12:07:04 pm »
If we're going there, then what exactly is Fabinho doing? He isn't blocking the passing lane. He isn't pressing anyone. It's very easy to post a pic and call any player out of position in a game of 90 minutes.

After the pass was made, Keita chased Saelemaekers, tried to put some pressure, but obviously the gap between the midfield and defense was too much by then. At that time, the rest of the midfield, including Fabinho and Hendo were well ahead of the area of the action, unable to get behind and the damage was done. In the next frames, you would also see Gomez going too deep, compounding the gap between midfield and defense. I can fault the whole midfield and defense for that goal, and there were some worse offenders there in the next few frames that you're calmly ignoring and on top of all that, it was a well worked goal. Signalling him out for this sequence makes no sense.
Fabinho’s position is fine, he’s compact and narrow with Henderson. He shouldn’t have to block the passing lane because Keita should be level and the same distance away from Fabinho that Fabinho is from Henderson. He certainly shouldn’t be pressing anyone which would have left us with two players out of position.

Klopp mentioned this in his post match comments.

Quote

"We started superbly, we played very well and didn't concede anything. We were punished just before halftime, defensively we did not maintain the organization. When there are too many spaces even Fabinho gets into trouble."

"They managed to find space between the lines and they took advantage of it. I never had the feeling that we couldn't recover. We scored two wonderful goals and we deserved it, however, there were those ten minutes in which Milan changed the game."

There were other mistakes made after that but they were a consequence of the Milan player getting all that time and space to begin with.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 12:10:12 pm by Funky_Gibbons »
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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10933 on: September 18, 2021, 12:09:54 pm »
Quote
, if Keita had performed like we had hoped we wouldn't be asking him to do the role he is currently doing, it's a similiar story for ox. OX, Keita (and even Gini )don't appear to be seen as potentially dangerous as Robbo or Trent.

Quite clearly Gini can be dangerous and prolific in the final third as he's shown for Holland and when he played for Newcastle.

But you can't have fullbacks pushing up as high as they do for us, and not have someone be disciplined in midfield to compensate for that.

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10934 on: September 18, 2021, 12:11:15 pm »
Fabinho’s position is fine l, he’s compact and narrow with Henderson. He shouldn’t have to block the passing lane because Keita should be the same distance away from Fabinho that Fabinho is from Henderson. It would also put him out of position.

Klopp mentioned this in his post match comments.

There were other mistakes made after that but they were a consequence of the Milan player getting all that time and space to begin with.

And none of what Klopp has said is in contrary to my analysis. I said  the gap between the midfield and defense was too much and Klopp mentioned that as well. He hinted at our CBs not pushing up. In fact, he also said it was one of the things he fixed at HT.

Klopp also said this

"Football-wise, we lost the ball in the wrong moment, it was absolutely not necessary. We played so flexible with the triangles on the wings, it was really, really good, but then we started getting a bit complicated and that was one mistake. The other mistake was the last line was slightly too deep. We showed only one picture from the first half where we showed the boys, ‘Here, the last line was too deep. Here, midfield, we need an eight who is pushing up in the challenge and then the other two have to adapt.’"

First he says, we lost possession unnecessarily. Second, he says our last line (defense was two deep). Third, he says we needed an eight who could 'push up', not drop deeper as you want Keita to do. It was a consequence of us losing our midfield press and then our defense going further deeper than necessary.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 12:23:57 pm by PoetryInMotion »

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10935 on: September 18, 2021, 12:12:51 pm »
And none of what Klopp has said is in contrary to my analysis. I said  the gap between the midfield and defense was too much and Klopp mentioned that as well. He hinted at our CBs not pushing up. In fact, he also said it was one of the things he fixed at HT.
In this instance the gap is created by Keita being out of position.
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Offline markmywords

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10936 on: September 18, 2021, 12:18:55 pm »
Quite clearly Gini can be dangerous and prolific in the final third as he's shown for Holland and when he played for Newcastle.

But you can't have fullbacks pushing up as high as they do for us, and not have someone be disciplined in midfield to compensate for that.

Sure Gini can be dangerous and prolific, but not AS dangerous consistently as Robbo.


It's an extreme example but, If we had De Bruyne or Gerrard we wouldn't be given them the same instructions as what we give Keita( or gave to gini)

Keita is being intelligently used based on the options in front of klopp

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10937 on: September 18, 2021, 12:24:49 pm »
In this instance the gap is created by Keita being out of position.

Nope. See Klopp's comments posted above.

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10938 on: September 18, 2021, 12:31:20 pm »
Sure Gini can be dangerous and prolific, but not AS dangerous consistently as Robbo.


It's an extreme example but, If we had De Bruyne or Gerrard we wouldn't be given them the same instructions as what we give Keita( or gave to gini)

Keita is being intelligently used based on the options in front of klopp

With how we play, I think De Bruyne wouldn't play for us in a similar way as he plays for City. He'd still have to press more, and be more organized than he is at City.

As for Gerrard, anything could be achieved with him, because he was an all-rounder.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10939 on: September 18, 2021, 12:52:28 pm »
Nope. See Klopp's comments posted above.
Which comment that refers to that exact passage?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 12:56:52 pm by Funky_Gibbons »
"And there are red and white scarves of Liverpool, and red and white bobble hats of Liverpool, and red and white rosettes of Liverpool, and nothing else. And the sun shines now."

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10940 on: September 18, 2021, 01:51:35 pm »
In this instance the gap is created by Keita being out of position.

Idk about this kind of isolated incident / freeze frame analysis
It’s so dependent on what instructions he had, what other played are doing (who maybe should be filling in for the advanced player) , what happened before that moment
Mark Ogden was busy claiming Trent was ‘40 yards out of position’ on 3 occasions in the same match using the similar questionable ‘let’s look at where the player is when a break / goal happens’ 

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10941 on: September 18, 2021, 02:00:54 pm »
Idk about this kind of isolated incident / freeze frame analysis
It’s so dependent on what instructions he had, what other played are doing (who maybe should be filling in for the advanced player) , what happened before that moment
Mark Ogden was busy claiming Trent was ‘40 yards out of position’ on 3 occasions in the same match using the similar questionable ‘let’s look at where the player is when a break / goal happens’
The video is further up, I took a still as I can’t post a gif or video of it.

But we’ve always defended as a midfield three, Wijnaldum certainly wouldn’t have been out of position like that.
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Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10942 on: September 18, 2021, 02:02:53 pm »
The video is further up, I took a still as I can’t post a gif or video of it.

But we’ve always defended as a midfield three, Wijnaldum certainly wouldn’t have been out of position like that.

Gini was sublime, but there's numerous times he was caught out position. Lets not create a 'Gini wouldn't have done that' narrative on here

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10943 on: September 18, 2021, 02:04:54 pm »
Gini was sublime, but there's numerous times he was caught out position. Lets not create a 'Gini wouldn't have done that' narrative on here
I was no no means Wijnaldum’s biggest fan, but he was very disciplined in his role.
"And there are red and white scarves of Liverpool, and red and white bobble hats of Liverpool, and red and white rosettes of Liverpool, and nothing else. And the sun shines now."

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10944 on: September 18, 2021, 02:07:36 pm »
I was no no means Wijnaldum’s biggest fan, but he was very disciplined in his role.

The most disciplined player in world football history has been caught out.

You can say 'Mo wouldn't have missed' for a big chance another player missed, he misses chances too though.

Gini was extemely disciplined, but he's been in many many games where our midfield was completely overrun and he was one of those caught out of position

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10945 on: September 18, 2021, 02:13:20 pm »
The video is further up, I took a still as I can’t post a gif or video of it.

But we’ve always defended as a midfield three, Wijnaldum certainly wouldn’t have been out of position like that.

And how many times did Wijnaldam play as the most advanced CM or was he asked to press high?
Pretty clear to me the instruction was to go at them first half, press high and that Keita was a key part of that idea (as was Trent who also left space in behind)
Unless you’re playing ten men behind the ball there will always be gaps and unless you know what instructions were given it’s super hard to take a moment in time and say ‘X should be doing Y’…. I mean I know I’ve just destroyed all of Monday night footballs content but it is basically redundant

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10946 on: September 18, 2021, 02:20:24 pm »
And how many times did Wijnaldam play as the most advanced CM or was he asked to press high?
Pretty clear to me the instruction was to go at them first half, press high and that Keita was a key part of that idea (as was Trent who also left space in behind)
Unless you’re playing ten men behind the ball there will always be gaps and unless you know what instructions were given it’s super hard to take a moment in time and say ‘X should be doing Y’…. I mean I know I’ve just destroyed all of Monday night footballs content but it is basically redundant
But seemingly some people can say what players should be doing without knowing what instructions they’ve been given.

Klopp said himself the gaps between midfield and defence were too big, for me this was a clear result sample of that.
"And there are red and white scarves of Liverpool, and red and white bobble hats of Liverpool, and red and white rosettes of Liverpool, and nothing else. And the sun shines now."

Offline ep1987

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10947 on: September 18, 2021, 02:34:41 pm »
Okay, why is Saelemaekers Keita's man? If it's man to man, as a wide attacker, he should be Robbo's man isn't it? If Zonal, he should be Fabinho's as he was dead central? Both Leao and Saelemaekers moved to the middle here, so the solution is for the CBs to have stepped up and played Rebic offside. Also, Keita was deeper than Fabi here, so it's not for the lack of tracking back? In fact, Keita was central helping out when it wasn't particularly his job at all, knowing they cut through our midfield from our right side.

This is ridiculous scapegoating and as I suspected, not logical.

I even time stamped the video for you. Keita doesn't react in the 5 seconds after the Milan long ball. It's not his job to 'mark' Saelemaekers but he needs to first begin to track back and then read the situation and take up a position to prevent the pass. He's the only Liverpool player not showing any urgency. The gap that is left is the result of the Naby being too high up the pitch.

Offline Red Cactii

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10948 on: September 18, 2021, 04:48:01 pm »
What a strike :lmao

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10949 on: September 18, 2021, 04:48:04 pm »
 8)

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10950 on: September 18, 2021, 04:48:14 pm »
Phwoar!!

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10951 on: September 18, 2021, 04:48:48 pm »
WEIGHED IN
I've been here during the bad times,we finished second once.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10952 on: September 18, 2021, 04:48:57 pm »
Yes lad!
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10953 on: September 18, 2021, 04:49:01 pm »
Yes lad!!

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10954 on: September 18, 2021, 04:49:20 pm »
Naby with the Cantona celebration.  ;D

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10955 on: September 18, 2021, 04:49:35 pm »
What a fucking hit son!

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10956 on: September 18, 2021, 04:50:36 pm »
His reaction was priceless
"If you don't limit yourself with bad thoughts, you can fly" - Jurgen Klopp

Offline redman64

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10957 on: September 18, 2021, 04:50:37 pm »
Get in Naby. What a goal!!

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10958 on: September 18, 2021, 04:51:07 pm »
Lovely goal vs Palace!

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Offline Ultimate Bromance

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #10959 on: September 18, 2021, 04:52:41 pm »
LABY NAD
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