Author Topic: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?  (Read 6172 times)

Offline Number 7

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Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« on: December 27, 2011, 06:32:43 am »
To state the obvious but most apt cliche in this situation - Rome wasn't built in a day. Or the Spanish Armada wasn't formed in a week, French Battalian in a month, or however you wish to refer to it.

We've seen a marked improvement in the quality of our football this season. For the most part enjoyable, but obviously not as close to the top teams as we would like.

We spent a lot of money over the summer rebuilding the team. Six of our regular starters have been here less than a year - Suarez, Carroll, Henderson, Enrique, Adam and Downing. With that many new faces we're not going to turn in to world beaters overnight. I didn't really expect us to. Aesthetically we are pleasing, but without any end product.

Suarez, as he brilliant as he is, isn't scoring on a regular basis. He may well be suited to playing off the striker, out wide, as he occasionally did for Ajax. We don't have a true number 10 to compliment his services. It's no secret though that we would struggle without Suarez because he is our focal point of the team.

Carroll, unfortunately for him, and evidently through none of his own fault, has been thrust in to this situation where his price tag is dictating his results. To be fair to him he's hardly played and the system the team is employing has rarely suited his strengths. As many of you know I've always been a strong advocate of Carroll. I do believe the ball just isn't running for him. But if it isn't working around him we need to make a decision about where he fits in.

So that's where our end product should lie. Between those two players. And even more pressure is heaped on them because there is virtually no scoring support from the midfield.

There are obviously still some pieces missing in this puzzle. Pieces that will shift us over the line and put away these teams we have enormous difficulties beating. The summer spending has got us 'closer' to the top 4, but not actually 'in' it. Of course I'm not ruling out that conceivably we could get in this season, and traditionally we do have a stronger second half of the season.

The foundation is there but the extra spark to ignite us and propel this machine into firing on all cylinders is astray. Just like a young striker with bags of potential who takes 2 or 3 years to hit his stride, it could be a few years before we hit our peak potential. If anything that is a positive because it shows we're heading in the right direction.

At many points this season the team has looked like one in a transitional period and a work in progress, and if we're willing to accept that then we should also accept that this year may not be the year we crack the top 4.

On the flip side many of us have run out of patience. Many supporters order instant pay off and continue to highlight such measures as spending £35 million on a striker. Or the fact that we spent a substantial sum on Downing and Henderson, and the least that should have resulted in is a place in the top 4. Of course that doesn't guarantee the outcome by default. Remember other teams around us have invested heavily also. Or it could be as simple as just someone who can put the ball in the back of the net, and isn't. Which doesn't rule out the idea that we haven't found him yet.

Patience may well be wearing thin, but there is no magical potion right now that will turn these disappointing results in to wins.

Are you willing to accept a transitional season for Liverpool? And will it come with a cost?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 06:52:21 am by Number 7 »
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Offline woof

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2011, 06:40:07 am »
As fans, it costs us nothing except a longer wait. For FSG, it's a different story. The only positive I can derive from the Blackburn game is Carroll getting into positions he should be. He just needs more matches to get the rust off.


Offline RivaGe

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2011, 06:44:57 am »
Isn't this a transitional season? As far as I remember our owners/manager were saying something like "too early to challenge for the title for us, but we have to get into top 4 this season"?

Offline subroc

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2011, 06:50:00 am »
The longer the club is out of the CL, the more will be the damage to our club's finances, ability to attract top talent, ability to keep top talent, and brandname and the harder will the task be as the teams that succed in getting top 4 entrench themselves and get even stronger.

I do not know if we can afford to be out of the top 4 for another season, but bear in mind that the loss of CL resulted in the loss of Torres and Masherano, and the attraction of competing for the Premiership and the top honours almost caused us to lose Gerrard. The attraction of Real (and the British tax structure) caused us to lose Alonso.

Not being in the CL and competing for it loses 20-30M every season for us in direct TV money. In terms of recognition all over the world, erosion occurs to our club's brandname and as a result, we will not be able to get as attractive commercial deals with sponsors etc.

In the interim period, the other 5 clubs ahead of us will get even stronger.

Not getting into the top 4 is not the sort of thing we fans should just shrug off and say `it's OK, we will wait a little longer'. We are losing ground on the top 5 clubs and even after spending so much money in the clsoe season, we will have to spend a lot more to get the club where it needs to be. CL is a major part of the footballing and financial strategy of the club to get back to where it belongs again.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 07:05:24 am by subroc »

Offline rednewbie

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2011, 06:52:12 am »
thats rigt, get the excuses in early

Offline callanlfc5times

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2011, 07:08:04 am »
What about Arsenal? They had a massive overhaul in the summer and lost two of their best players a lot of their current team haven't played together before this season. What about Chelsea they have sturridge, romeu, meireles and Mata who haven't played together before this season, what about City clichy, nasri, aguero and whoever else they signed in the summer haven't played together before this season they also lost players like bellamy and adebayor both quality players. What about manchester united? They have young, Jones, cleverly, welbeck, de gea who hadn't played together before last season they also lost some ever present squad players that have done a good job for them for a long time in oshea and brown. Fact is anyone could use transitional period as an excuse if they really wanted. What about newcastle they lost a shit load of players and brought in a shit load of players for the fraction of the price we did and are still doing as well as us!
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Offline eirwen

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2011, 07:10:04 am »
Well, we have to don't we? If we don't get into top 4 this season, which is likely, we'll just have to accept it anyway.

But I don't think with the current players we have, time is only the problem here. I don't think after another season they'll just miraculously 'gel' and take us to top 4. Meanwhile not in CL means we are losing a lot of money, not be able to attract top players. Some of our good players might want to leave etc. So the question is, how long do you think we have to wait for?

Offline kcbworth

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2011, 07:42:46 am »
We've seen a marked improvement in the quality of our football this season. For the most part enjoyable, but obviously not as close to the top teams as we would like.

What I don't understand is why so few comparisons of last season fail to mention that we were generally performing much better for the final 1/2 of the previous season than we have this season. To me we've not really improved, perhaps even gone backwards in some respects, although our defense is certainly much more immense (ironically the least changed part of the pitch). Is a transitional season where improvement is minimal something that anyone is willing to accept? I accept that it might just be down to cohesiveness and familiarity with the system and each other, and if we have faith it will all come together beautifully next year, but other than faith, I'm not really sure what to hold on to.

Oh, I always have to keep reminding myself we've lost Lucas as well, as this to me is a big factor.

Offline wz4jc3

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2011, 07:49:06 am »
I do think our general play has been better than the results. However, this was always going to be a transitional season, but it's just frustrating being a part of it. The most difficult part of football is to create chances, and we're doing that in abundance. The goals will eventually come and I just hope Carrol gets some game time. We don't have anything to lose at the moment, as results are generally unwhelming. I'm far from convinced Carrol is good enough, but he does at least deserve a chance to prove his worth, as there is still the potential to surprise a lot of us.

Offline Vinay

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2011, 07:53:24 am »
We have been in a transitional season since 1991. That is 20 years and counting.

Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2011, 08:02:51 am »
I think everyone is willing to accept a transitional season but what are we transitioning into ?  We've been in this constant state of flux for as long as I've watched the reds which isn't very long at all compared to some of the posters here but the only constant during that period has been change.  We sort our defence out and then take 5 seasons to get the balance up front right and even then we find that we are missing the last piece of the jigsaw and then fuck it all up and then a new manager takes over by which time the formidable defence is formidable no more with age catching up with those at the back and we start again.  The problem for me is that while we have been patient, I think that at times we've been too patient.  We've taken too much time to sort things out that should have been sorted out a lot earlier.  I really do think we've got our defence sorted at the moment.  We have an opportunity now that we cannot let slip and I think rebuilding has to start now.  If we do make the right moves, I have no doubt people will accept being in transition. 
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Offline redhokie8

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2011, 08:06:07 am »
I think there's a difference between accepting something and being understanding. I don't think we should accept anything less than 3 points every game, end of. If we want to get back to where we need to be it has everything to do with mentality and expectations, and the expectation as a professional athlete is perfection. Not to say everyone will be perfect, and there won't will be slip ups along the way, but to accept anything less than perfection is not what we as a club should be striving for. There is a mentality that goes into winning and that is an expectation to be the best and the desire to push for more and to better yourself. I don't understand for the life of me how people can accept that being sub par is ok. How can you expect the players to have desire if we as supports have none? I understand the situation we're in right now, but I am willing to accept anything other than greatness on the field? Absolutely not, but do I understand that sometimes things don't always fall into place? Yes, but if and when this happens we as a club have to learn from it and make ourselves stronger. There's alot of debate on here about how to go about supporting this club. I personally have no problem people pointing out when players haven't done what was needed of them, how do you expect people to get better and improve if they're sheltered from any sort of criticism? Personally I think up to this point charlie adam has not been good enough for us, I'm more than willing to point this out and tell you where he lacks in his game what he needs to improve upon. At the same time when he puts on that jersey to represent this club, I want nothing more than for him to go out there and represent this club the way it deserves to be represented, I would take so much satisfaction from being proved wrong. People on here have been posting the shankly quote quite a bit, "if you can't support us when were losing, dont support us when we're winning", here's another shankly quote for everyone "aim for the sky and you'll hit the ceiling, aim for the ceiling and you'll never leave the floor". I will won't settle for mediocrity, and neither should we as supporters. 
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 08:10:17 am by redhokie8 »

Offline Number 7

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2011, 08:15:13 am »
Isn't this a transitional season? As far as I remember our owners/manager were saying something like "too early to challenge for the title for us, but we have to get into top 4 this season"?

But even last season the hope was to get into to the top 4. This season after a long time the owners sanctioned a lot of money for players coming in so there was even greater expectation. So if it still doesn't work out do we put it down to the fact that we've got the makings of a decent team but we're not quite top 4 material yet. Hence chalk it down it down to a transitional season.
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2011, 08:21:33 am »
No. We’ve been in a transitional period for 21 years.
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Offline scouse29

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2011, 08:23:06 am »
We are in one if we like it or not.

I can accept the odd poor result but in my opinion of late we should of beaten Fulham, Wigan and Blackburn. In just those three games we amounted 2 points. It's piss poor and we can't gloss over it and it's not just bad luck.

We are very much work in progress.
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Offline eirwen

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2011, 08:28:51 am »
I think everyone is willing to accept a transitional season but what are we transitioning into ?  We've been in this constant state of flux for as long as I've watched the reds which isn't very long at all compared to some of the posters here but the only constant during that period has been change.  We sort our defence out and then take 5 seasons to get the balance up front right and even then we find that we are missing the last piece of the jigsaw and then fuck it all up and then a new manager takes over by which time the formidable defence is formidable no more with age catching up with those at the back and we start again.  The problem for me is that while we have been patient, I think that at times we've been too patient.  We've taken too much time to sort things out that should have been sorted out a lot earlier.  I really do think we've got our defence sorted at the moment.  We have an opportunity now that we cannot let slip and I think rebuilding has to start now.  If we do make the right moves, I have no doubt people will accept being in transition.
Agree with this. We used to have a good attacking force but no defense. Right now our defense is solid for the first time in a long time, however the problem is in attack. We're probably a midfielder and a striker/winger away from being great. How long do we take to sort it out though? If we take a few years to buy the right players, by that time our defense might not be as good anymore and we'd have to start all over again.

Offline DanA

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2011, 08:32:39 am »
I can accept it as long as we continue to actively rebuild the team. That means if we buy 2-3 players this January and it doesn't work out, that's just how it is. But if we make no changes and everything continues as is...that's frustrating.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2011, 08:34:06 am »
A team is always in a transition, so it depends on how we see things.

For me, the most positive thing is the good stuff done with the squad. Where Hodgson bought (Meireles apart) terrible, where he wrecked the foundations he came to steady, Kenny & Comolli did the opposite. They fixed things. On top of that Kenny has us playing good football. Those are key parts and that transition has been good. Which is why I see no reason to worry just yet. Doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't question what we're doing, but the general direction is positive and it's worth remembering.

If we begin to use the transition thing as a way to just buy time, then we're on a dangerous route. Management is always about the here and now as well as the future. It cannot be limited to just the future.

What does it mean? I believe we need to have our focus on that top four spot. It's still well within reach. This is no time for excuses or call for more time and money. We need to do better with what we have. Come the end of the season, we'll evaluate things. As always. I see no need to question Kenny's position for next season. NO need. But we can't change our target now because it may be tough to reach it. This season's transition is about getting back to top four.

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2011, 08:34:40 am »
Yes.

Offline scouse29

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2011, 08:37:52 am »
I can accept it as long as we continue to actively rebuild the team. That means if we buy 2-3 players this January and it doesn't work out, that's just how it is. But if we make no changes and everything continues as is...that's frustrating.

This is not a direct pop at anyone but we have to realistic here and realise that the amount of investment we have had probably wont be here again. We have spent big on English players and a couple have not performed yet.

Now we want more money to replace the recent buys?  I just don't see it happening.
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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2011, 08:40:36 am »
This isn't a transitional season. I predicted we'd finish 6th at the start of the season because we're the 6th best team in the league even with the new signings. We're 6th.

It'll take alot more than £35m net spend each summer to take the 6th best team in the league to being the 1st or even the 4th. The kind of money we don't have.

We are where we are, there's no transition being made. Enjoy the cup run!
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Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2011, 08:42:06 am »
Agree with this. We used to have a good attacking force but no defense. Right now our defense is solid for the first time in a long time, however the problem is in attack. We're probably a midfielder and a striker/winger away from being great. How long do we take to sort it out though? If we take a few years to buy the right players, by that time our defense might not be as good anymore and we'd have to start all over again.

Think we've been too negative with our signings especially out wide.  Babel and to a certain extent Riera were the only ones we took risks on but in both cases we knew what the offered out wide.  Babel I think our scouting team completely misread.  I don't think he ever had the amazing ability that he was meant to have.  His touch was inconsistent and his close control and dribbling was even more erratic.  Riera was similar but was never quick enough to actually get into the top echelons of world football even though he was a little better on the ball than Babel but apart from that I'm struggling to think of wide players we've bought that would give the opponents nightmares.  Benayoun was an excellent player in my opinion and was for my money the best wide player we've had since Macca which says a lot since I think his best position was further infield given his lack of pace.  Everyone else ?  Either steady players or workhorses or players of that ilk.

We've gone into a very defensive mentality IMO.  Rossi has often pointed this out and he's spot on I reckon.  People have always lamented the lack of a defensive midfielder every time some average team hits us on the break to earn a draw while not seeing that we ought to have put 5 past them lot.  The difference between us and the Mancs lays as much in mentality as it does in terms of personnel.  They actually go for it and sign players that have pace and skill and have done so consistently while we have been too negative and scared to take the plunge and buy and play players of that type.  When the Mancs decide to really attack a side they can put out Young (who I don't particularly rate but I think he is better than what we have out wide) or Nani (who is absolutely brilliant) or Valencia (again absolutely brilliant but not as good as Nani IMO) and all these players can take a man on and beat him and all of them have real pace and acceleration.  We simply don't have players of that ilk.  We worry about the opponents much more than we ought to and that mentality is really costing us both in the market as well as when we actually play. 
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Offline ScouserAtHeart

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2011, 08:46:23 am »
I really don't understand people having a pop at Kenny to be honest. The four draws at home in "winnable" games, we could easily have won all of them by 3-4 goals if all the chances that were created were taken. Same goes for Stoke and Fulham away. That's, what, at least 10 more points even if we'd only drawn those 2 away games. How is it the manager's fault if the people on the pitch can't take their chances? Is he expected to get on and score the goals himself? Surely if anything he should get praise for the fact that his tactics are responsible for creating so many chances in the first place.
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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2011, 08:46:32 am »
I think last season was the transitional season more than anything. This season has been disappointing but there's also been a lot of positives which often get forgotten after disappointing results. We're dominating teams again which is important, I have faith that the goals will come sooner rather than later and we'll go on a good run in the second half of the season. Don't think anyone can complain if we're in with a shout for fourth til the end + a cup final hopefully.

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2011, 08:46:38 am »
Wasn't the last 6 months of last season a transitional period where management tried out different formations etc.? And then signed proven talent from this league so we could kick on nd challenge this year? I think writing it off as a transitional season is too easy.
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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2011, 08:48:49 am »
In answer to the OP, yes, and two if need be because its neither our choice not to or in the clubs interest or consider any other option.
The longer the club is out of the CL, the more will be the damage to our club's finances, ability to attract top talent, ability to keep top talent,
Unfortunately for us there are two much stronger teams in the frame now, with Spurs and City.

Offline Ada069

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2011, 08:52:01 am »
Think some people need to be reminded that some players just don't gel quick enougth. Carroll has had I think about half a dozen chances to score this season that either hit the bar or the keeper produced a killer save. And I think the added pressure we are putting on him is demoralising him further. I have faith that for his age. Give him a season or so and he will start belting them in. (example being Benzema who flopped his first season for Real)


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Offline FranklyRed

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2011, 08:55:38 am »
Well this is 'another' transitional season as expectations at the beginning of the season were 4th spot and next season we would be challenging for the title isn't? In that case transitional is accepted.

However, I do not see us getting 4th spot, with the current squad.

If we do not get the ban for Suarez waived and have to sign a replacement for a ridiculous fee who needs time etc I even fear worse. We do already have problems to score at the moment even with Suarez!

Even if Suarez ban is waived we need a player who can for the 8/10 spot to play between the lines, link up with Suarez or Carroll, who is creative, scores goals... to even be able to fight for 4th spot!!! Gerrard could/is the player for that and like a new signing however I have the feeling he will not getting back to his best due to absence/injuries and also being injury prone.

For me upcoming weeks are decisive if this is the transitional season in relation to the expectations (4th spot) or worse.
 
If we get a spot between 5-8 this season, next season again will be also 'transitional'...
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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2011, 08:56:12 am »
What is it? 3 points off 4th? 4 if Arsenal win their game in hand?

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Offline ScouserAtHeart

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2011, 08:57:13 am »
Unfortunately for us there are two much stronger teams in the frame now, with Spurs and City.

What's more unfortunate is that both Chelsea and Arsenal are having horrible, horrible seasons by their usual standards, and we're failing to take advantage of it. There's no way both of those teams will have such a bad season at the same time, which is what we need to finish 4th. 2 teams out of Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs need to have bad seasons for us to finish above them. If they play to their potential, we finish below them. As others have already pointed out, we have the 6th best team in the league. And when you think about it, without any bias, is horrible. We spent 100-odd million (yes, yes, I know the net spend was much, much less but the fact is we spent 100 million despite what we got back in sales) and we're still 6th best. I don't question Kenny as a manager cos I think his tactics for most games this season have been spot on, but I do question him and Comolli when it comes to transfers. If any of Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, United and City had 100 million to spend on players, how many players that we bought would any of them have bought?
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Offline Cooper-Man

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2011, 08:57:50 am »
There is always a transitional "period' for clubs. However my major concern is, Will our investment in british talent come out the other end for the better?

I think until Gerrard came on last nigth we had NO guidance in attack. We looked lost and clueless. After 18 games we shouldnt be looking like that. Transition or no transition, blackburn is the WORST team in the league with a manager they DONT want to play for and 3 key defenders injured. Other then samba, they had a rookie 20 year old and a 17 and 19 year old in defence and took the challenge to us all while that other red team were putting 5 past a team we had drew to the previous week.

As it stands, our "team" performance lacks everything.

Im stressed, disappointed and losing sleep. We should be so much higher the table right now its not funny.

Im sick of playing second fiddle to the "richer" teams.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 08:59:59 am by Cooper-Man »

Offline eirwen

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2011, 09:01:20 am »
The question is if we don't finish 4th this season, what do you think will make us better next season? More money? The ability to attract players without CL? Or just some blind faith that the current players would play better after a year? If it's the last reason, then I don't think we'll get out of this transitional phase any time soon.

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2011, 09:06:49 am »
I'm going to repeat what I've said several times.

Think of the cumulative damage done to the club over three seasons by the Septics and finally Hodgson.  Think of us selling to buy - like losing Bellamy to help fund the Torres sale.  The gradual loss of top talent ultimately replaced by lesser players.

Fast forward to December 2011.  Not a single Hodgson signing remains at the club.  Look at the side compared to Rafa's last season.  Only Pepe, Agger, Skrtel and Lucas remain Rafa bought players who are automatic first picks.

On paper we are much stronger than our results suggest, just as Utd are much weaker.  Arsenal still managed to spend £50m odd in the summer and if VP doesn't play they struggle.  Chelsea should be doing MUCH better considering what they've spent and they're still saddled with ageing players on fat contracts - but despite their meddling owner and manager merry-go-round they've been through nothing like the turmoil we've suffered; they've retained the core of their squad so it's hardly surprising they're doing better than us.  Continuity is also the key word for Spurs.

Not every player bought by Damien and Kenny is going to work out and those who do aren't going to click straight away.  I was really hoping we'd storm the top four again this season but it seems increasingly unlikely.  However it would be a mistake to write us off long term.  The key is steady, sensible, sustainable investment.  Quality players are available for decent money.

Earlier  this season I feared a top four shut out, but with three or four clubs battling for two CL spots I think there is everything to place for over the next 18 months.
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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2011, 09:07:21 am »
The question is if we don't finish 4th this season, what do you think will make us better next season? More money? The ability to attract players without CL? Or just some blind faith that the current players would play better after a year? If it's the last reason, then I don't think we'll get out of this transitional phase any time soon.

I think the owners have to accept that they are going to have to spend a lot of coin - a lot more than what they have spent. They may as well satrt in January - the sooner they do it the faster we wll reap the benefits. Gerrard is not going to last many more seasons. Lucas needs backup. We have little width. We need a top cetnreforward, a top playmaker, an understudy DM, and two good flank MFs with pace and dribbling ability. That is about 120M worth of talent.

Otherwise, we will fall back further from the top 5. United will sign a replacement for Scholes and will probaly sign a centreforward as well. Chelsea will eventually get Modric or some other AM. City do not require any more strengthening but they will further mature and gel together nd get stronger that way. Spurs will probably expand their already deep squad. Arsenal will have to sign a top centreforward and midfielder.

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2011, 09:10:54 am »

So what were the previous seasons? So the question should be "Are we willing to accept another transitional season?

The answer is "No". Not after spending so much money and everyone talking about our target being 4th. You cannot change the target so to justify our performances( eg. our target is now 6th and we are performing like that, Hodgson style). These kind of performances was always expected and our whole transfers were based on being a solution for this. Comolli provided so much justification with his stats but really many doubted that logic of signing these players and today it is more.

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2011, 09:11:39 am »
The question is if we don't finish 4th this season, what do you think will make us better next season? More money? The ability to attract players without CL? Or just some blind faith that the current players would play better after a year? If it's the last reason, then I don't think we'll get out of this transitional phase any time soon.

The only thing that would make us instantly better next season would be City type money on transfer fee and wages. That's the only way to attract top players without CL football. Very few clubs in the world have the kind of cash and we ain't one of them so i think that's off the table.

We will be better next season. Enough to make top 4. Probably not. BUT Coates, Kelly, Enrique, Henderson, Suarez, Agger, Srktel, Lucas, Adam, Shelvey, Carroll all have much more to give. We've probably seen the best of Carra, Gerrard, Kuyt, Maxi and Bellamy and how these are replaced over the next 24 months to very important. We have to be smart and patient. And do what Spurs did whilst looked after by Arnesen and Comolli. Identify and invest in young talented players who have massive potential. They may take 3/4 years to evolve into a squad capable but thats just the way it is.
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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2011, 09:14:53 am »
So what were the previous seasons? So the question should be "Are we willing to accept another transitional season?

The answer is "No". Not after spending so much money and everyone talking about our target being 4th. You cannot change the target so to justify our performances( eg. our target is now 6th and we are performing like that, Hodgson style). These kind of performances was always expected and our whole transfers were based on being a solution for this. Comolli provided so much justification with his stats but really many doubted that logic of signing these players and today it is more.

In the last 12 months we've spent around £35m net. That's not alot of money. You can't look at our team 12 months ago and say we'll increase the quality by £35m & reduce the wage bill and it'll be a CL team.
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Offline subroc

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2011, 09:17:19 am »
In the last 12 months we've spent around £35m net. That's not alot of money. You can't look at our team 12 months ago and say we'll increase the quality by £35m & reduce the wage bill and it'll be a CL team.

 :thumbup

Too right. The money that the club has saved fromt he wage bill etc - now is the time for the club to spend. We as the fans should not accept excuses that the club cannot put the money in etc. FSG have entered the football club industry and by definiton, you have to spend to even be able to compete for success. It does not guarantee you success since the other top clubs are doing the same thing or spending even rgeater sums. We have to expect the ownres to spend a lot and not make excuses for them. Statistically, the performance of EPL teams have always been tied to how much were spent.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 09:19:38 am by subroc »

Offline BobbyDavro

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2011, 09:17:53 am »
Frustration everywhere.

I could accept it, have to in fact, but it will fuck me off if we blow a top 4 place when for the first season in donkeys it will be two or maybe even three places that are there for easy taking.
It will frustrate me even more if it's because we failed to hump shit teams like the teams who did get the first 4places did.

I think its all about what transition looks like.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Are we willing to accept a transitional season?
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2011, 09:18:23 am »
So what were the previous seasons? So the question should be "Are we willing to accept another transitional season?

The answer is "No". Not after spending so much money and everyone talking about our target being 4th. You cannot change the target so to justify our performances( eg. our target is now 6th and we are performing like that, Hodgson style). These kind of performances was always expected and our whole transfers were based on being a solution for this. Comolli provided so much justification with his stats but really many doubted that logic of signing these players and today it is more.

Yes our target was 4th and yes it is likely we will now fail to reach that target.  But to talk about 'another' transitional season after all the turmoil the club has endured over the past 3 years is wrong imo.

This is a new set up we are working with here.  You can't have it right first time, every time.  Kenny signed off on Comolli's targets as well you know.  We have to let stability run its course.
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