Topic: Man City - cheating bastards rumbled

[Romford_Red]

I’m not fussed about us being given titles as I am about City losing theirs. I’d be quite happy with an N/A against those years winners rather then having another teams name in their place, that kind of brushes over what what happened rather then there being no winners that year to serve as a permanent reminder of what’s happened.

So Not their name as winners and not N/A. Explicitly 'NOT MAN CITY' is what should show on the records.

[Samie]

It's been a long day, I've only just seen that Abu Dhabi have been charged with something but I don't know what exactly. Can anyone give a very short nutshell account of what's happened and if there are any likely punishments being mentioned? It would take me a week to catch up with this thread.

Thanks. 😊👍

Man City charged by Premier League with 114 breaches of financial rules following a four year investigation in a 10 year period. 

[mikeb58]

Man City make very little of PL's World wide appeal. LFC and Man Utd getting additional 3 titles each would actually be good for the brand, with the PL looking strong and fair ...

Wow great point that...that would be brilliant PR for the PL, as you say nobody gives a fuck about City, to see their cheating punished by rightly handing over their Titles to 2 Worldwide hugely supported teams would clean their image up no end.

[rob1966]

Wow great point that...that would be brilliant PR for the PL, as you say nobody gives a fuck about City, to see their cheating punished by rightly handing over their Titles to 2 Worldwide hugely supported teams would clean their image up no end.

There will be millions of LFC and Utd fans around the world demanding this happens.

[Samie]

So we would be on 22 League titles

Mancs on 22

How many do Chelsea pick up?

[MonsLibpool]

So we would be on 22 League titles

Mancs on 22

How many do Chelsea pick up?

Zero.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Maybe this was John Henry's plan all along, the wily fox

[MH41]

One issue about retrospectively awarding titles to the 2nd place team, is that perhaps the 3rd and 4th place team thought they had little to play for.
For example, in the 17/18 season, city finished with 100 points.
Utd could be awarded the title, due to finishing 2nd on 81 points. Spurs only finished 4 points behind Utd, but that could certainly have been different if they knew they were in a title race (insert Spurs jokes here, lol)
We finished 4th on 75 points, ending the season with 'only' a
D, W,D,D,L,W, perhaps as we took an eye off the league as we had the CL final to contest. Again, if we had a chance to win the league, I'm sure we'd have gone for it.
It's a nightmare scenario all around.

[rob1966]

So we would be on 22 League titles

Mancs on 22

How many do Chelsea pick up?

Mancs would be on 23, the Aguero season, Mourinho and Smaegol.

[CowboyKangaroo]

You sure the panel who said guilty , choose the punishment

Yes, see page 263 of the PL Handbook (W 51). The commission then impose the penalty.

[ScouserAtHeart]

So we would be on 22 League titles

Mancs on 22

How many do Chelsea pick up?

Every time City "won" the league it's always been us or the other Mancs as runner up

[Barneylfc∗]

So we would be on 22 League titles

Mancs on 22

How many do Chelsea pick up?

The 6 times these c*nts have cheated their way to first place, only us and their 6 fingered cousins have lost out.

[rocco]

Yes, see page 263 of the PL Handbook (W 51). The commission then impose the penalty.

Cheers

[Mister Flip Flop]

It'll be interesting to see if anyone other than Liverpool fans give a shit.
Up until now if I mentioned this investigation or the previous conviction that they got away with to lads in work who support other teams, they aren't in the slightest bit interested. I get looked at like I'm making it up.

People will look the other way as it's stopped us winning titles.

Now we are shit all hell will break loose.

[rob1966]

One issue about retrospectively awarding titles to the 2nd place team, is that perhaps the 3rd and 4th place team thought they had little to play for.
For example, in the 17/18 season, city finished with 100 points.
Utd could be awarded the title, due to finishing 2nd on 81 points. Spurs only finished 4 points behind Utd, but that could certainly have been different if they knew they were in a title race (insert Spurs jokes here, lol)
We finished 4th on 75 points, ending the season with 'only' a
D, W,D,D,L,W, perhaps as we took an eye off the league as we had the CL final to contest. Again, if we had a chance to win the league, I'm sure we'd have gone for it.
It's a nightmare scenario all around.

Only award it when the 2nd place club finished within 2 pts of them

[stewy17]

Let's concentrate on whether anything will actually stick first, then we can discuss suitable punishments. My bet is that it won't.

There's not a fucking chance these get relegated or get titles taken off them.

[duvva 💅]

Perhaps dock them 15 points for each season they’re found guilty, that way Man Utd only get two titles

Although that does leave City with one

[clinical]

Maybe this was John Henry's plan all along, the wily fox

If they are found guilty us and utd should team together. Not only for lost titles but lost revenue and sponsorship that comes about when you win the league.

[duvva 💅]

Only award it when the 2nd place club finished within 2 pts of them

Beat me to it

[lionel_messias]

It's been a long day, I've only just seen that Abu Dhabi have been charged with something but I don't know what exactly. Can anyone give a very short nutshell account of what's happened and if there are any likely punishments being mentioned? It would take me a week to catch up with this thread.

Thanks. 😊👍

In short, the Premier League have been investigating Man City for 4 years and charges were suddenly released this morning.

There are lots of charges, they are serious and they date back over about a DECADE of infringements.

A commission will investigate them. There can be no appeal at CAS, like last time with Uefa and points deductions and even relegation are punishments on offer. Less short, the rap sheet from the Premier League is damning, when other Premier League teams read it:





Details of the Premier League Rules that the Club is alleged to have breached are as follows:

1. In respect of each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those seasons that required provision by a member club to the Premier League, in the utmost good faith, of accurate financial information that gives a true and fair view of the club’s financial position, in particular with respect to its revenue (including sponsorship revenue), its related parties and its operating costs, namely:
(a) for Season 2009/10, Premier League Rules B.13, C.71, C.72, C.75 (amended to C.79 from 10 September 2009 for the remainder of Season 2009/10) and C.80;
(b) for Season 2010/11, Premier League Rules B.13, C.78, C.79, C.86 and C.87;
(c) for Season 2011/12, Premier League Rules B.13, E.3, 4, E.11 and E.12;
(d) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules B.16, E.3, E.4, E.11 and E.12;
(e) for Season 2013/14, Premier League Rules B.15, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.49;
(f) for Season 2014/15, Premier League Rules B.16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.50;
(g) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules B.16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.50;
(h) for Season 2016/17, Premier League Rules B.16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.51; and
(i) for Season 2017/18, Premier League Rules B.16, 3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.51.

2. In respect of:
(a) each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2012/13 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager, namely:
  (1) for Seasons 2009/10 to 2011/12 inclusive, Premier League Rules Q.7 and Q.8; and
  (2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules P.7 and P.8; and
(b) each of Seasons 2010/11 to 2015/16 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of player remuneration in its relevant contracts with its players, namely:
  (1) for Seasons 2010/11 and 2011/12, Premier League Rules K.12 and K.20;
  (2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules T.12 and T.20;
  (3) for Seasons 2013/14 and 2014/15, Premier League Rules T.12 and T.19; and
  (4) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules T.13 and T.20.

3. In respect of each of Seasons 2013/14 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to comply with UEFA’s regulations, including UEFA’s Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations, namely:
(a) for Season 2013/14, Premier League Rule B.14.6; and
(b) for Seasons 2014/15 to 2017/18 inclusive, Premier League Rule B.15.6.

4. In respect of each of the Seasons 2015/16 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons on Profitability and Sustainability, namely:
(a) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules E.52 to E.60; and
(b) for Seasons 2016/17 and 2017/18, Premier League Rules E.53 to E.60.

5. In respect of the period from December 2018 to date, the Premier League Rules applicable in the relevant Seasons requiring a member club to cooperate with, and assist, the Premier League in its investigations, including by providing documents and information to the Premier League in the utmost good faith, namely:
(a) for Season 2018/19, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(b) for Season 2019/20, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(c) for Season 2020/21, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(d) for Season 2021/22, Premier League Rules B.15, B.18, W.1, W.2, W.15 and W.16; and
(e) for Season 2022/23, Premier League Rules B.15, B.18, W.1, W.2, W.15 and W.16.

Commissions are independent of the Premier League and member clubs. The members of the Commission will be appointed by the independent Chair of the Premier League Judicial Panel, in accordance with Premier League Rules W.19, W.20 and W.26.

The proceedings before the Commission will, in accordance with Premier League Rule W.82, be confidential and heard in private. Under Premier League Rule W.82.2, the Commission’s final award will be published on the Premier League’s website.

[Bullet500]

https://twitter.com/City_Xtra/status/1622588228887773184

> An independent disciplinary committee will hear the charges against #ManCity and seems likely to be to be chaired by Murray Rosen KC, as per @TeleFootball

> On @4NewSquare: “He is a member of the MCC and Arsenal FC…”

[CowboyKangaroo]

Cheers

Not hugely surprising, but also of extreme relevance is W80:

In the exercise of their powers under this Section of these Rules, a Commission or an Appeal Board shall not be bound by judicial rules governing the admissibility of evidence. Instead, facts relating to a breach of these Rules may be established by any reliable means.

This means that leaked documents are highly likely to be admissible.

[Knight]

There has been lots of tinhat posts about this investigation on this forum saying things along the lines of 'nothing will come of it which is why it's been so long' and accusing the PL of a cover up or whatever. Have people admitted they were wrong?

Can I ask - all these offences stop in 2018 right? Is that because the investigation started there and didn't continue into the next 5 years? Because all this chat about us picking up titles... we'd only get 13/14 presumably?

[rocco]

Let's concentrate on whether anything will actually stick first, then we can discuss suitable punishments. My bet is that it won't.

There's not a fucking chance these get relegated or get titles taken off them.

This time I’m not so sure  they won’t get titles stripped but can’t see relegation

[rob1966]

Let's concentrate on whether anything will actually stick first, then we can discuss suitable punishments. My bet is that it won't.

There's not a fucking chance these get relegated or get titles taken off them.

If the PL didn't believe these would stick, they wouldn't have charged them. UEFA had enough proof to find them guilty and ban them for 2 years, it was the time barred evidence that got them off. The PL will have better than UEFA had.

[Barneylfc∗]

In short,

Fuck me, I'd hate to see it if you went in to detail 

[Samie]

Can I ask - all these offences stop in 2018 right? Is that because the investigation started there and didn't continue into the next 5 years? Because all this chat about us picking up titles... we'd only get 13/14 presumably?

Nope, they're also looking beyond 2018.

[CowboyKangaroo]

Can I ask - all these offences stop in 2018 right? Is that because the investigation started there and didn't continue into the next 5 years? Because all this chat about us picking up titles... we'd only get 13/14 presumably?

The alleged breaches stop in December of 2018. Depending on the nature of the breaches in that period it seems likely that the 2018/19 season would be in scope.

(Also worth noting as others have said - that's when City stopped co-operating - there may still be further breaches from beyond that period)

[MH41]

Also, if we hadn't gone all out in the league, having to win every game, we might have been able to rest players for the CL final.

It's similar in athletics. Clean  athletes try to keep up with dopers, try to increase training loads, their body cannot cope with the load without doping. They break down and pick up injuries.
Sounds familiar......

[rocco]

Not hugely surprising, but also of extreme relevance is W80:

In the exercise of their powers under this Section of these Rules, a Commission or an Appeal Board shall not be bound by judicial rules governing the admissibility of evidence. Instead, facts relating to a breach of these Rules may be established by any reliable means.

This means that leaked documents are highly likely to be admissible.

Interesting

[CowboyKangaroo]

Nope, they're also looking beyond 2018.

They are looking, but those are the cooperation breaches, and whilst they may warrant further punishment down the line, it seems remote that titles would be taken away solely on the back of those breaches.

[Samie]

The alleged breaches stop in December of 2018. Depending on the nature of the breaches in that period it seems likely that the 2018/19 season would be in scope.

(Also worth noting as others have said - that's when City stopped co-operating - there may still be further breaches from beyond that period)

The Premier League will also be investigating Man City’s seasons from December 2018 to now.  See table above. 

[rob1966]

[4pool]

I blame the FA for the upcoming rise in fuel prices. 

[edeyj]

For the sake of the game I really hope this sticks and City get a hefty punishment (not just a slap on the wrists).

If they get away with then I think we can all wave goodbye to a competitive league based on honest club dealings.

[CowboyKangaroo]

The Premier League will also be investigating Man City’s seasons from December 2018 to now.  See table above. 

See my response above.

[Barneylfc∗]

There has been lots of tinhat posts about this investigation on this forum saying things along the lines of 'nothing will come of it which is why it's been so long' and accusing the PL of a cover up or whatever. Have people admitted they were wrong?

Can I ask - all these offences stop in 2018 right? Is that because the investigation started there and didn't continue into the next 5 years? Because all this chat about us picking up titles... we'd only get 13/14 presumably?

As yet they aren't wrong. Nothing has happened beyond them being charged.

[JC the Messiah]

There is/was a thread on here about who people would want to win the league this season out of City and Arsenal.  Pretty much everyone said Arsenal - but if this investigation is still going on, I'd want City to win by a few points.  Would hammer the point home a bit more, don't you think?

[Egyptian36]

If the PL didn't believe these would stick, they wouldn't have charged them. UEFA had enough proof to find them guilty and ban them for 2 years, it was the time barred evidence that got them off. The PL will have better than UEFA had.

Even so it will be nothing City will care about much. What we need is them not being able to generate fake revenue otherwise nothing will change.

[El Lobo]

There has been lots of tinhat posts about this investigation on this forum saying things along the lines of 'nothing will come of it which is why it's been so long' and accusing the PL of a cover up or whatever. Have people admitted they were wrong?

Can I ask - all these offences stop in 2018 right? Is that because the investigation started there and didn't continue into the next 5 years? Because all this chat about us picking up titles... we'd only get 13/14 presumably?

Its got to sting