Topic: Separating the Art from the Artist

[Rob Dylan]

If you go looking for a list of bands who divide royalties equally you'll find a short list

Honorable mentions to REM

Then you look at The Smiths, which is like famously unbalanced

I feel like the music industry itself being unfair - it's often a seedy business - isn't news to a lot of people

Plenty of scummy financial behavior out there to be found

True but what makes this worse is that they basically cut him off when he.needed their help the most, and then sold their  catalogue behind his back - they got millions and he got nothing. And this behaviour is coming from someone who keeps saying he's a 'socialist'.

[ToneLa]

Oh no, I am with you totally, that is scumbag behavior

I think the music industry is often corrupt and in this area (and worse as discussed) and money is it's own corrupter, the circumstances certainly enables disgusting behavior

Yet there ARE acts that divide equally. I am not a fan of 'oh it was all bad back then' - totally illogical, that drags the good down with the bad

I hate to big up Coldplay in any way usually but think they are one of the Equal Pay acts

Gillespie disappoints there. I have no plans to listen to Primal Scream again soon anyway but that's not 'socialist' behavior at all

[rob1966]

Yeah I get that Tone (the Gallagher gobshites spring to mind) but with Clare Torry though, without her vocals, the song just isn't, so she deserved full royalities for her contribution.

[ToneLa]

Yeah I get that Tone (the Gallagher gobshites spring to mind) but with Clare Torry though, without her vocals, the song just isn't, so she deserved full royalities for her contribution.

Oh yeah, £30 wtf

She should have songwriting royalties for that IMO  yes (as well as mechanical/ sales & plays)

[Kenny's Jacket]

If you go looking for a list of bands who divide royalties equally you'll find a short list

Honorable mentions to REM

Then you look at The Smiths, which is like famously unbalanced

I feel like the music industry itself being unfair - it's often a seedy business - isn't news to a lot of people

Plenty of scummy financial behavior out there to be found

The Beatles too mate, here is an article that restores your faith

http://rockandrollgarage.com/how-the-beatles-members-divided-the-money-they-made/#:~:text=According%20to%20Chron%20magazine%20in,fees%2C%20record%20and%20merchandising%20royalties.

[elbow]

U2 split it equally 5 ways, the manager Paul McGuiness being the fifth.

[jackh]

Interesting discussion at times this, albeit one we're never going to be able to settle on an agreed approach/response to. It's all so subjective and we've all got different perspectives. I think the strength of how much we 'previously' (as in before allegations/crimes/etc surfaced) identified with/related to/were influenced by/etc if a key factor in our responses.

For example, I've no problem regarding Rolf Harris, Gary Glitter, and Ian Watkins as if they don't exist. None (besides watching some episodes of 'Animal Hospital' in the '90s) have ever been particular present in my life.

On the other hand, there are artists whose members' (Led Zep, Bowie, the Stones, Aerosmith, etc) alleged behaviour I might disapprove of but I don't necessary have a strength of connection that necessitates a strong reaction - I can listen to these artists, sometimes even intentionally so, but I don't necessarily feel like I'm endorsing their behaviour or corrupting myself in any way.

Through much of my teens and my 20s, Ryan Adams was pretty much my favourite artists - one of his logos was my avatar on RAWK from the day I signed up until the allegations against him came out in February 2019. Contrary to those artists above, who I engage in a pretty passive way, I've not listened to Ryan Adams since - I also didn't buy any of the recent albums (I'm an album buyer rather than a streamer) and didn't even consider any of the dates on his recent tour (this would have seemed unthinkable five years ago). Adams' alleged indiscretions were largely matters of emotional abuse & manipulation - somewhat different to those of some of the individuals referenced above - and yet my reaction (I was gutted upon hearing the news and it can still way heavy at times a few years later) & my response (to actively disengage) is stronger.

I can only really put the differences above down to the strength of the 'prior' connection/identification/whatever you want to call it, and my own measure of to what extent I feel the need to distance myself in order to feel uncompromised (or indeed to find the right compromise for me).

[Black Bull Nova]

Interesting discussion at times this, albeit one we're never going to be able to settle on an agreed approach/response to. It's all so subjective and we've all got different perspectives. I think the strength of how much we 'previously' (as in before allegations/crimes/etc surfaced) identified with/related to/were influenced by/etc if a key factor in our responses.

For example, I've no problem regarding Rolf Harris, Gary Glitter, and Ian Watkins as if they don't exist. None (besides watching some episodes of 'Animal Hospital' in the '90s) have ever been particular present in my life.

On the other hand, there are artists whose members' (Led Zep, Bowie, the Stones, Aerosmith, etc) alleged behaviour I might disapprove of but I don't necessary have a strength of connection that necessitates a strong reaction - I can listen to these artists, sometimes even intentionally so, but I don't necessarily feel like I'm endorsing their behaviour or corrupting myself in any way.

Through much of my teens and my 20s, Ryan Adams was pretty much my favourite artists - one of his logos was my avatar on RAWK from the day I signed up until the allegations against him came out in February 2019. Contrary to those artists above, who I engage in a pretty passive way, I've not listened to Ryan Adams since - I also didn't buy any of the recent albums (I'm an album buyer rather than a streamer) and didn't even consider any of the dates on his recent tour (this would have seemed unthinkable five years ago). Adams' alleged indiscretions were largely matters of emotional abuse & manipulation - somewhat different to those of some of the individuals referenced above - and yet my reaction (I was gutted upon hearing the news and it can still way heavy at times a few years later) & my response (to actively disengage) is stronger.

I can only really put the differences above down to the strength of the 'prior' connection/identification/whatever you want to call it, and my own measure of to what extent I feel the need to distance myself in order to feel uncompromised (or indeed to find the right compromise for me).

Good post, the only addition to that is that it's quite hard to listen to some of the lyrics in the new context and take them seriously and they were a large part of that body of work as well.

[ToneLa]

Sort of on the theme of this thread I don't think Hitler's paintings are that bad. Pretty good. (No further than that.)

But then if you go around going 'Hitler was a good artist' people would look at you funny

I find it accepted he's a failed artist, and seen it tagged in that he's a rubbish painter. But it's clearly tainted by..  Yknow, EVERYTHING ELSE he did

Funny thing on wiki about this:

One modern art critic was asked in 2002 to review some of Hitler's paintings without being told who painted them. He said they were quite good, but that the different style in which he drew human figures represented a profound lack of interest in people.

... Sergio Salvi rejects the characterization of Hitler as "a grim Sunday painter" and describes him instead as a "small time professional painter" of "innocuous and trivial urban landscapes"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paintings_by_Adolf_Hitler

Extremely unlikely to hang one of his paintings up myself. They wouldn't make it on merit

I mean to be able to separate them from the artist here they'd need to be mindblowingly good

[jackh]

Sort of on the theme of this thread I don't think Hitler's paintings are that bad. Pretty good. (No further than that.)

But then if you go around going 'Hitler was a good artist' people would look at you funny

I find it accepted he's a failed artist, and seen it tagged in that he's a rubbish painter. But it's clearly tainted by..  Yknow, EVERYTHING ELSE he did

Funny thing on wiki about this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paintings_by_Adolf_Hitler

Extremely unlikely to hang one of his paintings up myself. They wouldn't make it on merit

I mean to be able to separate them from the artist here they'd need to be mindblowingly good

Let us know what you decide in the end!

[Boston always unofficial]

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-65913988.
Rammstein not my kind of thing but i think a few on here are into them,that scene has a bit of a dodgy rep although thinking about it no worse than other genres! and i would of thought be asked randomly to a backstage party should be a big fucking red flag.
https://www.brooklynvegan.com/rammstein-drummer-christoph-schneider-issues-statement-about-till-lindemann-allegations/

[Boston always unofficial]

A couple from different ends of the musical spectrum,Lizzo,https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-66379169,and Anti-flag,https://www.billboard.com/music/rock/anti-flag-singer-justin-sane-statement-band-split-1235380019/. More familiar with Anti flag cos of the lefty punk stuff.Not sure why they've gone the guilty without trial way.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Equal pay is all well and good, but Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream, was essentially a Billy Corgan solo record, as he played nearly all of the music on it, does equal pay sound fair in that case?

[Sheer Magnetism]

This whole scenario is the most Anti-Flag thing ever. Zero to 100 with no in betweens.

[jackh]

Interesting discussion at times this, albeit one we're never going to be able to settle on an agreed approach/response to. It's all so subjective and we've all got different perspectives. I think the strength of how much we 'previously' (as in before allegations/crimes/etc surfaced) identified with/related to/were influenced by/etc if a key factor in our responses.

For example, I've no problem regarding Rolf Harris, Gary Glitter, and Ian Watkins as if they don't exist. None (besides watching some episodes of 'Animal Hospital' in the '90s) have ever been particular present in my life.

On the other hand, there are artists whose members' (Led Zep, Bowie, the Stones, Aerosmith, etc) alleged behaviour I might disapprove of but I don't necessary have a strength of connection that necessitates a strong reaction - I can listen to these artists, sometimes even intentionally so, but I don't necessarily feel like I'm endorsing their behaviour or corrupting myself in any way.

Through much of my teens and my 20s, Ryan Adams was pretty much my favourite artists - one of his logos was my avatar on RAWK from the day I signed up until the allegations against him came out in February 2019. Contrary to those artists above, who I engage in a pretty passive way, I've not listened to Ryan Adams since - I also didn't buy any of the recent albums (I'm an album buyer rather than a streamer) and didn't even consider any of the dates on his recent tour (this would have seemed unthinkable five years ago). Adams' alleged indiscretions were largely matters of emotional abuse & manipulation - somewhat different to those of some of the individuals referenced above - and yet my reaction (I was gutted upon hearing the news and it can still way heavy at times a few years later) & my response (to actively disengage) is stronger.

I can only really put the differences above down to the strength of the 'prior' connection/identification/whatever you want to call it, and my own measure of to what extent I feel the need to distance myself in order to feel uncompromised (or indeed to find the right compromise for me).

Can't help but think that the Bobby/Gerrard/Fowler/Henderson/Fabinho situations have demonstrated what I was trying to say here quite neatly.

[Buck Pete]

BBC reporting that Watkins has been stabbed up in Wakefield.

Surprised it took so long to be honest.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

BBC reporting that Watkins has been stabbed up in Wakefield.

Surprised it took so long to be honest.

Funds must have run low.