Topic: anfield road stand

[whiteboots]

I too share the disillusion that no news about a commitment to developing the ARE has been forthcoming.

The stadium project has been littered with inaction, missed opportunity, and blinkered thinking ever since the Taylor Report.

With a confirmed waiting list of 25k for ST’s, ongoing population growth, an enthusiastic take up of commercial hospitality space and our position at about the bottom of the table for improved attendances since the start of the Pl era, it is difficult to see how, as the second best supported club in England historically, there is any case for us NOT significantly improving capacity.

Combine this with construction costs having been at a low post Olympics, oil and steel process having dropped by two thirds, and interest rates at rock bottom, history will not be kind to those who have poorly served the future interests of LFC by failing to seize the moment.

[Alan_X]

I too share the disillusion that no news about a commitment to developing the ARE has been forthcoming.

The stadium project has been littered with inaction, missed opportunity, and blinkered thinking ever since the Taylor Report.

With a confirmed waiting list of 25k for ST’s, ongoing population growth, an enthusiastic take up of commercial hospitality space and our position at about the bottom of the table for improved attendances since the start of the Pl era, it is difficult to see how, as the second best supported club in England historically, there is any case for us NOT significantly improving capacity.

Combine this with construction costs having been at a low post Olympics, oil and steel process having dropped by two thirds, and interest rates at rock bottom, history will not be kind to those who have poorly served the future interests of LFC by failing to seize the moment.

There was never going to be any announcement until the Main Stand was open and they had to be built in phases to maintain capacity during construction. Why not wait until they say they definitely aren't building it before talking about lost opportunities?


If the demand is there they'll build it.

[andy07]

Warming to the idea of a large single tier Rd End, makes sense and as stated above a second tier could be added to the Kop in the future although I imagine that would mean squaring it off at around the row 60 level with an upper tier something similar to City's third tier of The South Stand.   The Kop development would be someway down the line but there is defo a case for a large single tier Rd End.  Demand wise we just sold out Wembley in an hour for a friendly at fairly unfriendly prices. Yes it is Barca and yes it is London but still some achievement given that many regulars are giving it a miss.

[whiteboots]

There was never going to be any announcement until the Main Stand was open and they had to be built in phases to maintain capacity during construction. Why not wait until they say they definitely aren't building it before talking about lost opportunities?


If the demand is there they'll build it.

I accept  your first point.

I think that the delay, their timeframe notwithstanding, is a lost opportunity.

Do you think we have sufficient support to fill a ground to over 54,500?

[Peter McGurk]

I accept  your first point.

I think that the delay, their timeframe notwithstanding, is a lost opportunity.

Do you think we have sufficient support to fill a ground to over 54,500?

Please. Read the 70,000 seats my arse thread.

[whiteboots]

Please. Read the 70,000 seats my arse thread.

Will do!

[whiteboots]

Up to speed now, thanks, peter.

Any projection is just that. But a few facts help.

Add a rising population, the ongoing popularity of football, and our place as about the worst performing club in the NW and PL when it comes to increasing attendance and you have opportunity. We are still the second best supported club by home average attendance in the history of the English game. Just taking up the slack of the wasted PL years would take us past 60k.

The game is awash with cash. We have spent the bare minimum on our ground.

Our current position in the pantheon of Euro greats is a proud one, alongside Real Madrid, Barca, Milan and Bayern Munich. Our relative size of stadium is an embarrassment.

Grounds last for fifty years, ownerships and management last a fraction of that. FSG and Ayre have done a decent job overall, but neither claim that stadium building is their bag ( quite the reverse), another reason why we are where we are.

With a bit of luck the ARE will be built and our capacity will lift to 58,500. The problem ( which was always going to be the case for an in situ redevelopment) is that it is unlikely we can push much further than that where we are. The risks of a part redevelopment ( increased construction costs and limited further expansion potential) were always likely to be played down initially. They will come back to haunt us.

We can still make the best of things, not least in a reversal of the downgrading of the status of the Kop over the years by a statement ARE. Here’s hoping.

[Peter McGurk]

Up to speed now, thanks, peter.

Any projection is just that. But a few facts help.

Add a rising population, the ongoing popularity of football, and our place as about the worst performing club in the NW and PL when it comes to increasing attendance and you have opportunity. We are still the second best supported club by home average attendance in the history of the English game. Just taking up the slack of the wasted PL years would take us past 60k.

The game is awash with cash. We have spent the bare minimum on our ground.

Our current position in the pantheon of Euro greats is a proud one, alongside Real Madrid, Barca, Milan and Bayern Munich. Our relative size of stadium is an embarrassment.

Grounds last for fifty years, ownerships and management last a fraction of that. FSG and Ayre have done a decent job overall, but neither claim that stadium building is their bag ( quite the reverse), another reason why we are where we are.

With a bit of luck the ARE will be built and our capacity will lift to 58,500. The problem ( which was always going to be the case for an in situ redevelopment) is that it is unlikely we can push much further than that where we are. The risks of a part redevelopment ( increased construction costs and limited further expansion potential) were always likely to be played down initially. They will come back to haunt us.

We can still make the best of things, not least in a reversal of the downgrading of the status of the Kop over the years by a statement ARE. Here’s hoping.

225,000 posts in 46 minutes. Impressive. Couldn't be you've read them all before? Perhaps in another life?

[Redknight1892]

Warming to the idea of a large single tier Rd End, makes sense and as stated above a second tier could be added to the Kop in the future although I imagine that would mean squaring it off at around the row 60 level with an upper tier something similar to City's third tier of The South Stand.   The Kop development would be someway down the line but there is defo a case for a large single tier Rd End.  Demand wise we just sold out Wembley in an hour for a friendly at fairly unfriendly prices. Yes it is Barca and yes it is London but still some achievement given that many regulars are giving it a miss.

It would definitely solve the WBR headache.! I have no problem with switching ends if it's for the greater good and at least we are still at our home..  Anfield rd Kop does have a ring to it.

[Alan_X]

Up to speed now, thanks, peter.

Any projection is just that. But a few facts help.

Add a rising population, the ongoing popularity of football, and our place as about the worst performing club in the NW and PL when it comes to increasing attendance and you have opportunity. We are still the second best supported club by home average attendance in the history of the English game. Just taking up the slack of the wasted PL years would take us past 60k.

The game is awash with cash. We have spent the bare minimum on our ground.

Our current position in the pantheon of Euro greats is a proud one, alongside Real Madrid, Barca, Milan and Bayern Munich. Our relative size of stadium is an embarrassment.

Grounds last for fifty years, ownerships and management last a fraction of that. FSG and Ayre have done a decent job overall, but neither claim that stadium building is their bag ( quite the reverse), another reason why we are where we are.

With a bit of luck the ARE will be built and our capacity will lift to 58,500. The problem ( which was always going to be the case for an in situ redevelopment) is that it is unlikely we can push much further than that where we are. The risks of a part redevelopment ( increased construction costs and limited further expansion potential) were always likely to be played down initially. They will come back to haunt us.

We can still make the best of things, not least in a reversal of the downgrading of the status of the Kop over the years by a statement ARE. Here’s hoping.

Are these facts?:

"Add a rising population, the ongoing popularity of football, and our place as about the worst performing club in the NW and PL when it comes to increasing attendance and you have opportunity. We are still the second best supported club by home average attendance in the history of the English game. Just taking up the slack of the wasted PL years would take us past 60k."

- Rising population - what does that have to do with Liverpool's attendances?

- Ongoing popularity of football - how does that translate to attendances as against BT/Sky contracts?

- 'The worst performing club in the NW and PL..' - could you clarify that? United had twenty-five years of domination to build up their attendances; City have had a huge cash injection, a gift of a stadium and still fail to sell out their ground; Everton don't sell out Goodison on a regular basis...

- Historic attendance is meaningless - historically our highest average attendance is around 48,000. That's less than Spurs, Everton & Newcastle.

- What is 'the slack' exactly?

- I've written before about using the season ticket waiting list as if it's a reservoir for demand. It's not - if you read the season ticket thread, most of the people getting season tickets are regular match goers (as they should be).

- What do you mean by 'downgrading the status of the Kop'? Surely throwing away a hundred years of history will downgrade it even more.

[Barrowred]

I'm still sceptical that we can even fill the extra capacity for the Main stand, never mind an increased capacity Annie Road end. It was easy to pick up late tickets for every game this season so I'm not sure where we are going to get the extra 3000(?) every home game.

Unless the team is regularly competing for the league & cups I just can't see there being the interest to fill the extra capacity regularly enough to warrant the outlay of building another new stand. There is also the issue of ticket prices. Many people struggle to afford to go now and I can only see the ticket prices becoming more expensive, unfortunately.

[RaveDave]

I'm still sceptical that we can even fill the extra capacity for the Main stand, never mind an increased capacity Annie Road end. It was easy to pick up late tickets for every game this season so I'm not sure where we are going to get the extra 3000(?) every home game.

Being able to pick up late tickets if your a local is great but for those of us travelling long distances we aren't going to book flights and accomodation on the off chance we might pick up a spare at the ground, the extra tickets will be sold without a problem and the discussion at the end of next season will be about going again with the Anfield Road end.

[oojason]

I'm still sceptical that we can even fill the extra capacity for the Main stand, never mind an increased capacity Annie Road end. It was easy to pick up late tickets for every game this season so I'm not sure where we are going to get the extra 3000(?) every home game.

Unless the team is regularly competing for the league & cups I just can't see there being the interest to fill the extra capacity regularly enough to warrant the outlay of building another new stand. There is also the issue of ticket prices. Many people struggle to afford to go now and I can only see the ticket prices becoming more expensive, unfortunately.

If the games fail to attract tickets sold to Members (and there are quite a few of them) or General Sale then the club have a season ticket waiting list of 26,000 they could offer tickets to if need be mate.

There's also the 1000 tickets to youngsters thing the club announced last season - it'll be interesting to see the details on that - and if popular with the kids if they expand it if games aren't selling out (for me they should be expanding it anyway and cater to a larger younger crowd).

Like you say, tickets are far too expensive - hopefully we'll see something along the lines of what has happened with a £30 cap for away tickets across the Premier League occur for home fans soon (though I imagine if it did it happen it'd be more than £30 a ticket).

Plus, Klopp should have the team playing good attacking footy again this season - that'll help put bums on seats

[Barrowred]

As has already been stated on the thread, you can't use the season ticket list as a barometer for increasing the capacity. A high percentage of people on the list will already be going to the match.

FSG are shrewd business people and they won't build a new stand unless they think they can fill it on more occasions than not. For that reason alone I'm not sure that they will start on the Annie road as soon as the Main is finished.

[andy07]

Would love to see some figures about how many members attended at least 1,2,3....19 matches in a season.    I assume that a good few thousand will have attended double figures of home matches but it would be interesting to look at those who attended 1-5 games and find out why they didn't attend more.  Cost? Availability?  I imagine that there will be at least 15000 members who attended at least 1-3 home games and these are the people that will need to turn up regularly to justify increased capacity.  Another market is the large pool of supporters who used to attend but have stopped going.   Cost is often given as a reason but lack of match day atmosphere is a close second.  Getting maybe 10000 former regulars back at the ground is a serious challenge.

[oojason]

As has already been stated on the thread, you can't use the season ticket list as a barometer for increasing the capacity*. A high percentage of people on the list will already be going to the match.

FSG are shrewd business people and they won't build a new stand unless they think they can fill it on more occasions than not. For that reason alone I'm not sure that they will start on the Annie road as soon as the Main is finished.

Sorry for the misunderstanding mate - I was replying to your line about you not being sure we will fill the new Main Stand.


Though I do think the ST waiting list is a decent barometer of their being a demand there for an increase in capacity. That list has been closed for 8 years now, the first 28,000 all paid a fiver 4 years back to stay on it (and thousands after that weren't kept on it).

As you say, there may be a few thousand on that list that go to games now as Members  - but no-one really knows whether they'd prefer to carry on as Members or get a season ticket (my own preference would not to pay the annual £30 membership and have to go through the time and hassle of online sales processes and/or phonelines - and have a ST) - but equally imagine some now may want to stay as Members too.

Plus we do have 100,000 Members in total (?) (though many may not want to come to every game) that's still a decent amount - not forgetting the youngsters we've priced out over the years - and only now starting to make an effort to attract more of them.


edit for clarity - * increase in capacity as in building a likely new Anfield Road End.

[willfc]

Warming to the idea of a large single tier Rd End, makes sense and as stated above a second tier could be added to the Kop in the future although I imagine that would mean squaring it off at around the row 60 level with an upper tier something similar to City's third tier of The South Stand.   The Kop development would be someway down the line but there is defo a case for a large single tier Rd End.  Demand wise we just sold out Wembley in an hour for a friendly at fairly unfriendly prices. Yes it is Barca and yes it is London but still some achievement given that many regulars are giving it a miss.

See for me, I wouldn't like to see development to the Kop, think it's historical it should not be redeveloped. In a way, I may be wrong, but perhaps kill the atmosphere a little if you build a second tier.

ARE needs redeveloping - hate the fact of severely restricted views, think they're dumb and why it was a good idea is a shambles in the design. Think a single tier the size of the Kop could be a big question mark, and something that should be looked at

Would love to see some figures about how many members attended at least 1,2,3....19 matches in a season.    I assume that a good few thousand will have attended double figures of home matches but it would be interesting to look at those who attended 1-5 games and find out why they didn't attend more.  Cost? Availability?  I imagine that there will be at least 15000 members who attended at least 1-3 home games and these are the people that will need to turn up regularly to justify increased capacity.  Another market is the large pool of supporters who used to attend but have stopped going.   Cost is often given as a reason but lack of match day atmosphere is a close second.  Getting maybe 10000 former regulars back at the ground is a serious challenge.

I like the idea of the new prices - specially with young adult - think this can bring a high volume of youngsters. I was thinking £100 last season if I went in on an adult ticket (I live in southampton and 17). Go to the Dortmund game, it comes to about £20 cheaper. I worked out if I booked everything on time, I could go for as little as £65 - which to go up and down from Southampton and watch the game is good and cheap. I look forward to the YA prices next season - will definitely attract me to go to more as I went to I think 3/4 prem games last season

[Alan_X]

Sorry for the misunderstanding mate - I was replying to your line about you not being sure we will fill the new Main Stand.

Though I do think the ST waiting list is a decent barometer of their being a demand there for an increase in capacity. That list has been closed for 8 years now, the first 28,000 all paid a fiver 4 years back to stay on it (and thousands after that weren't kept on it).

As you say, there may be a few thousand on that list that go to games now as Members  - but no-one really knows whether they'd prefer to carry on as Members or get a season ticket (my own preference would not to pay the annual £30 membership and have to go through the time and hassle of online sales processes and/or phonelines - and have a ST) - but equally imagine some now may want to stay as Members too.

Plus we do have 100,000 Members in total (?) (though many may not want to come to every game) that's still a decent amount - not forgetting the youngsters we've priced out over the years - and only now starting to make an effort to attract more of them.

I'd be surprised(and disappointed) if the majority of those on the waiting list don't already go the match regularly.

And if they don't then they shouldn't be on the list. Should the club be building a massive stadium to accommodate 20,000+ people (based on your assumptions) who can't be arsed to get tickets to watch their team?

Season tickets should be allocated to members who go to 19 home games regularly, not someone who goes occasionally or not at all.

£5 to stay on the list is a no brainer when there's a shortage of tickets because you can get a season ticket, pick your games and then farm it out for Stoke on a Wednesday night.

There are lot of members like me - I barely use my card and rely on mates and exchanges for the games I go to. So you get a situation where the ticket I use is not attached to my membership, was bought by someone who usually goes to all the games but can't make it and who is also on the season ticket waiting list.

The under-supply of tickets in recent years has distorted the waiting list and had distorted the way people use their existing season tickets (sharing and passing them on) and the way people use membership (credit hunting).

The main issue that needs to be addressed is getting more young supporters into the club and getting them where they belong, on the Kop. And ideally with safe standing.

[whiteboots]

Are these facts?:

Yes.

Since the inception of the PL the UK population has grown by 7m, about 8%. The Merseyside conurbation has grown by 5% in the past decade. That growth provides a significant pool of new support.

Since its inception, PL attendances have grown by 38%. Ours has grown by 20%. LFC has missed the boat, to date.

The growth in PL attendances, and football attendances generally, since the PL, is the material manifestation of the growth in popularity of football. However pretty much any other indicator you choose, ST numbers, subscription to pay tv, hospitality commercial, underscores that.

If you take attendances at the inception of the PL as year zero ( I hate it as much as anyone, but it is very useful as the PL inception coincided with the post Taylor stadium building boom), then take them now, you can compare the increase in attendances both in terms of percentage increase , and simple numbers. By both measures, we are at around the bottom of both tables. That reflects again how we have missed the boat.

Historic average home attendance is not meaningless. It is a fact. We are second. That reflects our relative strength of home support over the history of our club. It is something we have failed to capitalise on.

The gap between all the above favourable elements, and the status quo, is the slack.

The new main stand dwarfs the Kop. A new ARE that took capacity to 58,500 would have to be bigger than the Kop. The Kop used to be the signature defining element of Anfield, it has been usurped in terms of capacity and physical presence by several other rival grounds. Its facilities are soon to be a quarter of a century old. That is what I meant by its downgrading. A new, imaginatively constructed ARE could become a new part of our history.

The closed, 25k ST waiting list is a guide to demand, but not an exhaustive one. Our current ST count is, I think, now around 27,000. There are 4000 hospitality tickets (boxes and packages). The away allocation is 3000. That only leaves around 11,000 “match day” tickets. If everyone on the waiting list took a ticket ( which I don’t think is anything like true) that would still leave 14,000. And that is before you allow for the supporter who isn’t on the ST list.

The problem that the Club, and some fans, have had in assessing potential support growth is to view it through the eyes of existing, converts. Sunderland, prior to moving to the SOL, struggled to average more than 20,000. After the move attendances lifted by 60%, last season they were more than double. That is about attracting new support for a club spectacular for being spectacularly average.

To become a new supporter you need to be able to come to the games, and we have not offered that opportunity to nearly enough people.

[Welshred]

The Kop has always been dwarfed. It's part of it's mystique. How can something so loud come out of something so big

[whiteboots]

The Kop has always been dwarfed.

Not in capacity.

[Welshred]

Not in capacity.

Which makes absolutely no difference. The Kop will be The Kop no matter the capacity of the rest of the stands. It'll be quiet as fuck for the majority of games and then as loud as you can possibly imagine for big games. Putting more people into it won't make a difference.

[oojason]

I'd be surprised(and disappointed) if the majority of those on the waiting list don't already go the match regularly.

And if they don't then they shouldn't be on the list. Should the club be building a massive stadium to accommodate 20,000+ people (based on your assumptions) who can't be arsed to get tickets to watch their team?

Season tickets should be allocated to members who go to 19 home games regularly, not someone who goes occasionally or not at all.

£5 to stay on the list is a no brainer when there's a shortage of tickets because you can get a season ticket, pick your games and then farm it out for Stoke on a Wednesday night.

There are lot of members like me - I barely use my card and rely on mates and exchanges for the games I go to. So you get a situation where the ticket I use is not attached to my membership, was bought by someone who usually goes to all the games but can't make it and who is also on the season ticket waiting list.

The under-supply of tickets in recent years has distorted the waiting list and had distorted the way people use their existing season tickets (sharing and passing them on) and the way people use membership (credit hunting).

The main issue that needs to be addressed is getting more young supporters into the club and getting them where they belong, on the Kop. And ideally with safe standing.

Originally I was talking about using the ST Waiting List (and the club getting youngsters in) to fill the new Main Stand if it didn't sell out to Members or General Sales - as per Barrowred's post. And the same for with a likely new Anfield Road End.

I wasn't on about increases in capacity beyond that - nor 'building a massive stadium to accommodate 20,000+ people (based on your assumptions)...'

Have now edited the post to make it clearer the increase in capacity is regarding the likely new Anfield Road End.

But thanks for the rest of it.



As an aside, how are the club going to give season tickets to Members who to 19 games regularly (etc) when those people may not be going on their own cards, like you? (forgetting the several thousand pissed off fans who've been on the waiting list for a while now - and may be losing out in a double-whammy if they're quite high up on the ST list and go regular on someone else's / mates' card(s))

[Danny Boys Dad]

I'd be surprised(and disappointed) if the majority of those on the waiting list don't already go the match regularly.

And if they don't then they shouldn't be on the list. Should the club be building a massive stadium to accommodate 20,000+ people (based on your assumptions) who can't be arsed to get tickets to watch their team?

Season tickets should be allocated to members who go to 19 home games regularly, not someone who goes occasionally or not at all.

There has already been someone posting in the ticket thread that they've just been given a season ticket but don't go anymore and wanting to sell the ST on for a season. Probably a lot of that going to happen.

[CraigDS]

There has already been someone posting in the ticket thread that they've just been given a season ticket but don't go anymore and wanting to sell the ST on for a season. Probably a lot of that going to happen.

I've seen a few who have been offered STs which they are taking up, but also have access to tickets for every game through someone else's ST so are looking to sell on their new one for the foreseeable. No doubt as a back up in case their other supply falls through.

[Alan_X]

There has already been someone posting in the ticket thread that they've just been given a season ticket but don't go anymore and wanting to sell the ST on for a season. Probably a lot of that going to happen.

Yes - I've just deleted it. A perfect example of why the waiting list is not representative of anything.

I can understand why he wanted if originally but he should have turned it down in my opinion so someone more deserving could have it. I'm not on the waiting list because I think it's wrong if I don't go regularly.

[whiteboots]

Which makes absolutely no difference. The Kop will be The Kop no matter the capacity of the rest of the stands. It'll be quiet as fuck for the majority of games and then as loud as you can possibly imagine for big games. Putting more people into it won't make a difference.

I agree that any stand is defined by the people in it.

I don't agree that the capacity and nature of the stand make no difference. At its biggest, the Kop held half the capacity of the ground, if the ARE is developed, it will be just over a fifth. The Main Stand, from housing about the same as the Kop, will now hold around 80% more. The dynamic of the ground will change, and will change again if the ARE is redeveloped.

The "ends" that were such a feature of the English game, and in which the Kop was pre-eminent, have been systematically emasculated by redevelopment and new stadia. I make no apology for arguing that we should do what we can to protect what we have, and create new fan bastions is a way that other clubs and grounds have failed to deliver.

[Nessy76]

I agree that any stand is defined by the people in it.

I don't agree that the capacity and nature of the stand make no difference. At its biggest, the Kop held half the capacity of the ground, if the ARE is developed, it will be just over a fifth. The Main Stand, from housing about the same as the Kop, will now hold around 80% more. The dynamic of the ground will change, and will change again if the ARE is redeveloped.

The "ends" that were such a feature of the English game, and in which the Kop was pre-eminent, have been systematically emasculated by redevelopment and new stadia. I make no apology for arguing that we should do what we can to protect what we have, and create new fan bastions is a way that other clubs and grounds have failed to deliver.

Fill your boots. In the end, that's down to the voices in the stand. The Kop is already big enough to be the loudest stand in Europe, we've seen that. The fact that it's often quiet has nothing to do with the size of it. I don't think people on the Kop are saying to themselves "let's not make too much noise" because they are intimidated by their red brothers and sisters in the Main Stand, it just doesn't stack up.

Expansion of the Anfield Road end brings us up to almost 60k. That's as big as the Emirates and the Etihad, pretty much. If we build it and it sells out every game with huge demand for more, they'll look at it again, but the options from here on are limited.

Making the Anny Rd bigger than the last plans may be possible (think this is where Alan_X or Peter McGurk usually pop in to explain why it isn't...) but unless there's a proven need, it could easily be vanity spending on something that doesn't actually help the club.

We all have pipe dreams; I'd like to see the Anny rebuilt from scratch, extending the pitch to meet FIFA standards, but I realise that there are people at the club with a better view of the facts.

As for ticket sales, this one goes round and round. Currently the club sells out of tickets for the majority of games without any sales effort. My suspicion is that if we were trying to sell tickets we could do a lot better, but there's been no need to try to sell tickets since there are rarely any to sell. But where a few years ago we lagged behind Manchester United on match day income, those differences are now a much smaller part of the picture. We need to compete better in the commercial area, selling seats isn't going to make up the ground.
Which leaves the need to get new young fans into the stadium as the priority, and the best way to do that might not be about capacity as much as opportunity and pricing.

[Redknight1892]

Which makes absolutely no difference. The Kop will be The Kop no matter the capacity of the rest of the stands. It'll be quiet as fuck for the majority of games and then as loud as you can possibly imagine for big games. Putting more people into it won't make a difference.

As an oldie for me the Kop disappeared in 1994 to be replaced by a stand named the same.  Those days will never return and the difference between both is night and day.  Safe standing would do a lot to resolve atmosphere I'd be all for that. And if expanding the existing Kop stand has issues then simply swap ends and turn the Annie rd into a massive kop end.  Anfield only has an atmosphere now when the occasion suits sadly.

[whiteboots]

Making the Anny Rd bigger than the last plans may be possible (think this is where Alan_X or Peter McGurk usually pop in to explain why it isn't...) but unless there's a proven need, it could easily be vanity spending on something that doesn't actually help the club.

As I understand it, the new  Main Stand will take our capacity to 54,500.

The existing ARE capacity is 9,074.

I also understand the provisional capacity for the ground after ARE redevelopment is 58,500. So the ARE will need to hold 13,074, bigger than the Kop at 12,409 The biggest box stand end in England is the Holte End at 13,501, so it is doable. It would be good however to add those extra 500 seats to make it the biggest end.

[campioni]

As I understand it, the new  Main Stand will take our capacity to 54,500.

The existing ARE capacity is 9,074.

I also understand the provisional capacity for the ground after ARE redevelopment is 58,500. So the ARE will need to hold 13,074, bigger than the Kop at 12,409 The biggest box stand end in England is the Holte End at 13,501, so it is doable. It would be good however to add those extra 500 seats to make it the biggest end.

You want the club to pay out more money to architects, designers, consultants to redesign the proposed Anfield Road extension to fit in an extra 500 seats, just so we can say we have the biggest end stand in England?! What age are you?

[Alan_X]

Apologies - the nature of these threads is that the posts and responses get a big blurred - the massive stadium thing was a general comment aimed at dome of of new members. And this...

As an aside, how are the club going to give season tickets to Members who to 19 games regularly (etc) when those people may not be going on their own cards, like you? (forgetting the several thousand pissed off fans who've been on the waiting list for a while now - and may be losing out in a double-whammy if they're quite high up on the ST list and go regular on someone else's / mates' card(s))

Is at the heart of the problem - and hopefully the club, SOS and the ticketing group have a better handle on who actually goes the game, how they get tickets, what the real demand us and how we untangle the mess we're all in at the moment.

And tied to that is how we get affordable tickets for those who need them - the young (predominantly local*) people who will be the future of the club going forward.

*The local issue is not a scouse vs OOT thing other than local youngsters being able to go more regularly with their mates and build up a social rather than an individual following.

[owens_2k]

I'd be surprised(and disappointed) if the majority of those on the waiting list don't already go the match regularly.

And if they don't then they shouldn't be on the list. Should the club be building a massive stadium to accommodate 20,000+ people (based on your assumptions) who can't be arsed to get tickets to watch their team?

Season tickets should be allocated to members who go to 19 home games regularly, not someone who goes occasionally or not at all.

£5 to stay on the list is a no brainer when there's a shortage of tickets because you can get a season ticket, pick your games and then farm it out for Stoke on a Wednesday night.

There are lot of members like me - I barely use my card and rely on mates and exchanges for the games I go to. So you get a situation where the ticket I use is not attached to my membership, was bought by someone who usually goes to all the games but can't make it and who is also on the season ticket waiting list.

The under-supply of tickets in recent years has distorted the waiting list and had distorted the way people use their existing season tickets (sharing and passing them on) and the way people use membership (credit hunting).

The main issue that needs to be addressed is getting more young supporters into the club and getting them where they belong, on the Kop. And ideally with safe standing.

I've been on the waiting list since around '97 and I don't go regularly because I can never get hold of tickets. Do I not deserve to be on the list?

[Anfield89]

I've been on the waiting list since around '97 and I don't go regularly because I can never get hold of tickets. Do I not deserve to be on the list?

Not as much as someone who does no. If u want to get tickets get a membership and you will beable to go to At least 10 games next season.

[owens_2k]

Not as much as someone who does no. If u want to get tickets get a membership and you will beable to go to At least 10 games next season.

I play football myself on a Saturday, that's why I can't go. Personal choice. Once I have my season ticket I will probably stop playing.

[Anfield89]

I play football myself on a Saturday, that's why I can't go. Personal choice. Once I have my season ticket I will probably stop playing.

It is other supporters personal choice though to not play football and go to the game, season tickets should be to reward loyalty.

[owens_2k]

It is other supporters personal choice though to not play football and go to the game, season tickets should be to reward loyalty.

Is being on the waiting list for 19 years not loyalty?

[Anfield89]

Is being on the waiting list for 19 years not loyalty?

No it's sitting on a waiting list. You haven't had to do anything.

Why do you only want to go if you have a season ticket?

[owens_2k]

No it's sitting on a waiting list. You haven't had to do anything.

I have actually. First of all I've had to get onto the waiting list in the first place and then I've had to pay for the privilege to stay on it.

[CraigDS]

No it's sitting on a waiting list. You haven't had to do anything.

Why do you only want to go if you have a season ticket?

I imagine it's more of a case of the fact he knows he won't get to all the games as doesn't have a ST so is prepared to give his time to the team he is playing for, and not letting them down the handful of times he may get a late ticket per season.

If he had a ST he'd not have to let them down, and he'd just not join the team to begin with.


I think this point is stupid anyway. He got his name on the list years and years ago, and deserves his ticket if he gets the chance as much as someone who has been lucky enough to find tickets elsewhere during the time.

The ones you want to look at are the ones who got their name on the list, will take their ticket, but will then not go and will just pass it on (or worse yet pass it on at a profit).