Author Topic: Some quality/important posts you may have missed  (Read 626021 times)

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #880 on: November 9, 2018, 07:41:31 am »
I have to say I've been surprised by the overreaction on here. Yes, your team was below its best, but at the same time it feels like all three clubs in the group don't understand what the Marakana represents. That's the greatest mistake made by both Napoli and Liverpool, and one I hope PSG make as well. I also should note that your front three all played without a break in the summer. Give it a bit more time.

My impression of the night was eerily similar to what I noted in my pre-match preview (in chronlogical order of play):

1. The Marakana created an atmosphere whcih gave us the extra 10-15% which in the opening 30 minutes Liverpool did not find an answer to (we had luck with the Sturridge chance). One telling statistic in terms of work rate - Crvena Zvezda 115.6km, Liverpool 109.8km. This is that extra 10-15% especially in the opening 30 minutes.

2. Our controlled press in the first half, which your team didn't have an answer for, was eerily similar to the opening at Anfield, the key difference being that we capitalized during our good spell.

3. The return of Marko Marin into the side brought us a much needed creative outlet who was able to dictate play, especially when we countered in the first half.

4. The pressing by Dusan Jovancic on your central pairing was critical, if not more than Pavkov's goals, in creating our good spell in the first half. His inclusion changed our approach significantly.

5. Your entire back line and midfield being almost too pedestrian in the second half. You had possession, but it was too sideways and the lack of some vertical bravery was plain to see. This played right into our hands, as our coach is a defensive structure specialist. He has created a system with two blocks of four in the past 2 seasons that's hard to really beat with sideways passing. I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but in the second half we were hardly troubled, even though you clearly outplayed us and had more of the ball. The method in which you attacked played to our strengths in a lot of ways and that frustration has been exhibited by several other European opponents who have come here.

6. The travelling Liverpool contingent. What class. You applauded our side as we did a lap of honor to thank our fans in this historic night for us. I have to say, no club in Europe (and no club in England for that matter) would have/has paid us the respect your club and supporters have in the past month. It's evident even here on the forum. It's another example to me that money cannot buy history or class and even when you endured a torrid away trip, you still applauded our team. I sincerely do hope you beat PSG in your next fixture.

Now, onto the comments -

Cheers Rocco. We know we're in for a tough day in Naples (a game I'll be going to), but we have a particular bitter taste after Paris, and some of our players have noted they can't wait for that next home game in December. I wouldn't write us off at the Marakana when PSG come here. As much class as they have, they don't have heart to win when faced with true mental barriers (see their collapses in the CL these past several seasons). We will be up for it that night.

This was exactly the tactical work I believe Milojevic put into the preparation for this game. The plan was to press for the opening half and hopefully get something from it while remaining responsible at the back. Our controlled press in the opening half hour was as good as I've seen us do it at this level. We don't have the fitness levels of the major sides in Europe, especially when you don't play against similar opposition week in, week out, so that's why the second half (especially the last 30 minutes) went the way they did. However, the first point in your post is exactly what we all felt last night; the pace of your attacks made it relatively predictable barring 1-2 chances that Salah had.

Since Milojevic has come to the club (2 seasons ago) the only opposition to defeat us at the Marakana is Arsenal in the 86th minute off a ridiculous Giroud bicycle that he will never score again for 0-1, and that was a game in which we dominated the first half and should have been up at half time. Since he has come to the club, our European home record stands at 8 wins, 5 draws and 1 loss.

I will be very surprised if they look like this the rest of the season. You had a tough away game in Arsenal and this was a tough away trip.

Well said. It's one game.

That's what I think the Liverpool players thought as well given how they came out in the opening 20 minutes. Games are not won on paper.

I will disagree with the referee bit of it. I thought you were a tad fortunate with Milner's hand ball in the 47th minute after Marin's shot clearly hit his arm. Given the officiating on display at Anfield (in which two relatively soft penalties were given, especially the second one which our player had no idea about), that might have been a penalty for a different referee. In regards to the first goal, it's the fifth official to the side of the goal that makes the call. You can see in the replay he is the one that gives the corner as he had the best angle when Srnic and Robertson sprinted after Alisson's rebound.

Thank you for showing us the respect our first half display deserved. We historically have played well against Italian sides, especially away from home, but Napoli is about as far off an Italian side as you can get given Sarri's style is still there with a bit more directness that Ancellotti has inserted. I'm trying to say we're hopeful against Napoli, but we're confident against PSG at home. That game is going to be a cracker, especially after the first game. I wouldn't write us off in that last game.

Well spotted. That was where and when we did most of the damage.

This is the Marakana, and once our players started the game well, we all felt a result here was possible. We know technically on paper we're nowhere near the other 3 teams in the group, but our history makes us believe it, and that's power of sport. Another stat - value of Liverpool (821 million GBP), Crvena Zvezda (40 million GBP). That shows the financial disparity and what heart/effort did on the evening.

I echo this, the sideways passing in the second half did you in. That was the disappointment from Liverpool's perspective.

Да да. Поштовање за класу навијача Ливерпула на Маракани. Ваљда два клуба са истројим изађу из групе.  :wave

This was one of the main reasons I was cautiously optimistic for this tie. When we go ahead, we know how to defend a lead. That's probably been the biggest improvement since Milojevic came to coach us.

Cheers. Hope the two teams with history and pedigree in the competition get out of the group.

Very significant bit of text here. Our data analyst and tactical coach are known for breaking down the opposition to a tee. We did the same to Napoli here. We realized the main ways they hurt teams are diagonal long balls (one of the things they're extremely good at) when rotating the ball out of the back and when they're pressed. We did soak up pressure in that game but barring 2 excellent chances, one of which was an Insigne screamer from 30 yards that hit the cross bar, it was more of the same as in the second half today. They didn't really have a clear answer.

Again, kudos for the respect shown.

Lacked the hunger to win was one of the main themes of last night for me. It seemed like your players expect to just go over us. In this sense, this has to go down to Klopp. At the same time, I'm not sure what more he could have done to inspire. He gave Wijnaldum, Sturridge, Lallana, and Matip a chance, and in theory all of these players should have been raring to go to make an impression on the side, especially given the atmosphere. You were really lacking a presence deep from midfield, a box to box type, and that might have been Keita or Fabinho on another night. The midfield was too passive and it showed in the second half. In the first half, you at least had Lallana trying to make runs from deep, but it just didn't come off.

Spoken like a true veteran of football. The lows we've had to endure over the past 8-9 years are something I wouldn't wish on any of you. We were nearly financially ruined by club management circa 2010 when a ruthless group of businessmen grew our debt to insurmountable levels. Then they left and we were stuck just trying to play with our academy players and veterans we'd bring from abroad for their last 1-2 seasons... then we win our first title in 6 years and UEFA then decides to kick us out of Europe during the following season for breaching FFP... all the while clubs like PSG inject cash from who knows where to balance the books. We then get a manager who leads us to another title, but we make a hash of qualifying for Europe in 2016 against Ludogorets after drawing with them 2-2 away, only to lose the home return leg 3-4 all while finishing 2nd in the league. There were some highs there, in the 2 league titles pre the 2017-2018 campaign, but outside of that it's been a ton of lows, especially on the European front for us, which is hard to accept given our pedigree. Then Milojevic comes in and revives us from out of nothing. He takes our squad and goes through 4 rounds of Europa League qualifying beating much more financially strong teams in Sparta Prague and FC Krasnodar, before we make it to the final 32 after finishing 2nd in our group only to Arsenal and beating BATE Borisov and FC Cologne. Drawing Arsenal at the Emirates, a game in which we had chances to win, was one of the highlights. Us making the final 32 in the Europa league from the first round of Europe league qualifying last season made us the first side in European football history to do that.

To back that up, we're the first European side to progress through all four rounds of Champions League qualifying to make the group stage since the Champions League was introduced in 1992. I know for your perspective and what you're trying to win the last couple of sentences might not seem that impressive, but when your entire club budget for transfers, salaries, staff, the ground etc is about a third of what you spent on Allison, or maybe even less, the high we're enjoying right now is hard to describe.

I believe our win last night proved that football is not dead. I believe it proved that with heart and mind you can still make a difference in this game as bad as the financial disparity has grown. I'm not blaming Liverpool here. This is the system UEFA has created. I'm just describing the high we feel in Belgrade and Zvezda fans all over the world. For too long we've been told we don't matter, especially with this talk of the Superleague, and I'm happy for once that we've shown that money isn't everything in this game. That's what makes football beautiful in different ways.

This will be your only low of the season by the way.

Ultimately, here's an article by ESPN as a reaction to the game last night and what I'm also trying to say.

http://www.espn.com/soccer/uefa-champions-league/775/blog/post/3691375/red-stars-upset-of-liverpool-a-reminder-of-what-football-stands-to-lose-with-a-super-league

Again, kudos for the respect shown on here.

I will finish with this video from our official club Youtube channel. As you know, money can't buy this type of atmosphere. It's something that comes from the heart. The five guys at the beginning of the video are what remains of our 1973 side. They were paid their respect before the match started. Also, around the 6th minute in the video you can see what the win means to the players. Some of these guys are from Belgrade and were born into Red Star families. This type of connection with your players is something else for us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJcI1f9B1xE



Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #881 on: November 12, 2018, 02:37:22 pm »
Quote
This country and the world, it seems, is so fixated on allowing itself to suffer.

We have become accustomed to allowing selfish and egocentric men dictate our lives. We yearn for strong and adamant leaders in expensive tailor made suits. Men with a firm grip, who do not yield when faced with a political opponent. Men who do not blink and men who do not stutter when they are presented the chance to baselessly undermine and humiliate their political opponents. Men who are led by corporate interests and men who spend thousands upon thousands to live lavishly, whilst food banks become the source of many people's nutrition.

Now I do not know whether our leader's are product's of our society, or vice-versa. What I do know is that for the time being , politics is driven by men and women who are not servants of the people. They are servants of themselves and the business interests which they embolden. There is no seat for Jeremy Corbyn amongst the leader's of this world. He is too good of a human being to deserve that seat. A seat kept warm by compulsive liars, by dictator's, by ultra-nationalist's, by war-criminals. They would devour him, and his soul.

JC is not a perfect human being. Nor is any other person in this world. But one thing that no-one can take away from his is his honourable service towards his fellow men and women. And his vision to make this world, just a slightly better place.

don't know how to cross quote from different threads, but this is a cracker from Poet
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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #882 on: December 24, 2018, 12:06:51 am »
It all comes down to the principles of attack and defence, and for team shape, defence more than attack

The principles of attack are (generally - there some slight federation/coaching school differences):

Penetration
Depth
Width
Mobility
Surprise/Counterattack

Penetration is the objective. There are three ways to penetrate - shooting, passing forward, or dribbling/attacking space with the ball. If penetration at the ball is not possible, then you need depth. Depth is usually created (and by "usually", I mean almost always has been), by the striker playing on the shoulder of the last defender, and traditionally by the sweeper, but with the advent of zonal defending and sweeper-keepers, that role has been taken up by the man in the nets. The next principle is Width, which can come from either the fullbacks and wingers, wingbacks, wingers only, fullbacks only, or a combination of winger and fullback on opposite sides. The purpose of width is to open up the middle of the field. The next principle is Mobility, which is basically players leaving their position and moving diagonally in and out of the field, or else players overlapping from front to back. The last main principle of attack is Surprise/Counter-attack, which is self-explanatory - using speed to transition from defence to attack to catch a defence in a disorganised state.

The defensive principles, then, are:

Pressure/Contain - slowing down the penetration attempts at the ball. This is ALWAYS performed by the nearest defender to the ball when it is lost
Cover - this covers the attacking players attempting to create depth
Balance - Covering players who are attempting to create width, also, creating the offside line
Compactness - keeping spaces between defenders tight vertically and horizontally to reduce the effects of mobility
Consolidation - dropping back to the penalty area in a compact shape to reduce the danger of a counter-attack.

So in graphic terms, a team-shape in attack should follow the lines below:



Defensively, the lines of movement would ultimately look like this:



If you could create a Venn diagram of the overlapping principles of attack and defence, you would basically get the word "Shape", because both your attacking and your defensive shape have to be closely linked in order to make transition from one to another phase as economic as possible. This is partly why man-to-man marking was overcome by zonal defending, because zonal defending gives you a better shape to transition in both directions without losing shape.

So what about formations?

Formations let you place players in optimal positions to effect the principles of attack and defence as best as possible. For example, in a true 4-3-3, the attacking depth is handled by the #9, the width by the #7 and #11 (wingers), defensive depth by the central defenders, defensive mid and keeper, and mobility by the fullbacks, the #8 and the #10:



In a 4-4-2, there's one less player for mobility in midfield, but there is better defensive depth in the square base (as Houllier once called it on a coaching course) of the 4, 5, 6 and 8.

In 5-back systems, the roles are almost more explicit, as the central defender becomes the defensive depth, the wingbacks supply the width, the striker provides attacking depth, and the midfield 3 (either a 1-2 or a 2-1) provide the mobility as well as the defensive overloads providing a great springboard for Surprise/Counterattack.

So when we're saying things like "we don't really play a 4-3-3", it's important to make that statement, because it allows us to talk about the roles the players are actually playing, so we don't  get into a situation of measuring them up against roles they aren't actually playing. For example, saying that Firmino doesn't score enough goals would be unfair to him, as he's been playing the role of the #10, which means he doesn't get into as many goalscoring positions as often as, say, Salah would. Similarly, calling Salah a "winger" belies the fact that he is our "outball", even if he starts off to the side rather than purely central. These anomalies allow us to see what Klopp is actually doing, and it's better to talk about what's actually happening in the system and formation, than it is to superimpose a "symmetrical", "media" view of the system and formation and forget the jobs the players are actually being asked to do. That's why we drill down, so that we don't look at players and the jobs they do from the wrong perspective, and then we can actually appreciate the jobs they ARE doing, rather than, say, expecting Alonso to be winning tackles, and Mascherano to be spraying the ball onto the toes of the attackers. 4-4-2, 4-3-3 etc, are okay for shorthand, but you could have 10 teams playing a 4-4-2, and all 10 would be playing it a different way. That's why precision is important.

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #883 on: December 28, 2018, 02:02:38 pm »
In the immortal words of Virgil Van Dijk: “who cares?”

The man of the moment, Mauricio Pochettino, surely on his way to leading Spurs to quadruple glory before wrestling the Old Trafford reins away from the baby-faced managerial legend next summer, once said of diving that itֹ’s “a small detail” after two of his players, one of them English and the best striker in the world according to at least one half of the Neville school for special pundits, had blatantly dived for two penalties at Anfield. There was no major wringing of hands at that point, as far as I recall, so the moral outrage in the aftermath of yesterday’s game has me at a loss. Morals?? In this fucking sport?? Do me a favour. Hypocrisy, on the other hand...

Which is, of course, to say nothing of the factual reality that this was clearly a foul. Clearly. Paul Dummett himself knew better than anyone — his sheepish acceptance of the referee’s decision was writ large across his face for all to see. We all know that your typical footballer loves a good argument with a match official, often over something as mundane as the award of a throw, but the Newcastle United man said nothing.

He took a calculated risk, you see, the kind you too might feel fully justified in taking if the team you were playing against hadn’t been awarded a penalty at home in the Premier League in over a year. He attempted to slow the rapid forward progress of Liverpool’s Egyptian genius by sneakily and momentarily grabbing his arm, thereby hoping to throw him off balance and give his teammate a better chance to clear the ball. In the process, he dared the referee to make a decision where so many before him had failed to do so, most recently when Victor Lindelof barged Salah in the back with arm and shoulder at 0-0 against Manchester United a couple of weeks back.

Bear in mind, too, that Salah is a player who has recently felt the full, considerable bulk of Steve Cook raking his studs down his Achilles tendon at Bournemouth and stayed on his feet to score. Even more recently, he failed to collapse at the Kop end at 1-0 during the second-half of the crucial Champions League decider against Napoli when David Ospina came haring off his line and made contact with him, instead trying (and failing) to chip the Colombian in a move that had yours truly wondering aloud why our players are so stupid. You won’t hear about these moments as the witch-hunt gathers pace over the coming weeks and months, but they are important points to note in order to understand Dummett’s mental process for the penalty incident yesterday, because he would have no doubt felt hugely confident at the prospect of his opponent trying to stay on his feet and score despite the foul.

He couldn’t have known that on this occasion: (a) Salah would also dare the referee to make a decision, and (b) even more shockingly, Mr. Scott would make the correct call. Hey, sometimes it happens. Sometimes it doesn’t and you get away with it. That’s football. What mystifies me, though, quite aside from what was going through the Newcastle defender’s head taking such a risk when it was only “one-season wonder” Mo Salah that was bearing down on his penalty area, was why a legendary former defender like Phil Neville was so reticent to give Dummett due credit later that night for as good a tactical foul as you’ll see on a purely technical level, given that he even cleverly shielded the action from the view of the linesman with his body in the process.

Phil knows the dark arts of defending. This is a man who has scored an own-goal, given away a (winning) penalty and been sent off (twice) in Merseyside derbies, a terrifying trifecta matched only by the time he gave away a penalty in the dying seconds against Romania to knock England out of Euro 2000. Surely he, of all people, knows better than to sacrifice praise for the cunning, old-school and, above all, manly goddammit exploits of a fellow member of the left-back club at the altar of labelling Johnny Foreigner a cheat for the millionth time. Surely to God we’re past that now? Surely to God we’ve been past that since Michael Owen played the Argies at their own game in 1998, falling like a little feather at the attentions of Roberto Ayala? Weep for Paul Dummett, brothers and sisters — unappreciated in his own time, even by his own kind. An unholy future union with Sean Dyche surely awaits.

Joking aside...Phil Neville knows fuck all about anything, and if he does, he’s a gifted actor. This is a man who for many years plied his trade at Goodison Park, a place where any opposition contact with the ball above shinpad-level results in a chorus of “HANDBALL!!!” and “PENALTY!!!” from the stands. His perspective on penalties should therefore be afforded much the same regard as the rage-filled screams of your average Bluenose round Goodison way of a Saturday afternoon.

Speaking of Nevilles, earlier this year Phil’s brother Gary stated in commentary for Sky that Erik Lamela’s aforementioned Defoe-in-Platoon-style collapse at the merest touch of Van Dijk’s knee at Anfield was a definite penalty. To be fair, for the entirety of Neville’s playing career under Alex Ferguson at Manchester United it probably would have been a stonewall penalty for any player wearing red at Old Trafford, certainly lest the referee be forced to run for his life with eleven psychopaths at his heels. So maybe his opinion, and that of every click-baiting, hot-taking pundit on this subject and many others, should be taken with a grain of salt too?

I mean, football supporters are, to a greater or lesser extent, all hypocrites when it comes to this kind of stuff, aren’t we? We normally couldn’t be objective to save our lives, although I recall the vast majority of us readily admitting that the foul which most closely resembles Dummett’s that I can think of (Dirk Kuyt grabbing Aleksandr Hleb’s arm in a very similar manner against Arsenal during the first leg of the Champions League quarter-final at the Emirates in 2008) was a stonewall penalty, just like Saturday, and how relieved we were that the ref missed it. But, and it feels stupid even saying it at this point, the entire point of this football analysis business is supposed to be objectivity. Newcastle were on a hiding (to nothing, plus just a hiding) either way yesterday. It’s ridiculous that an already-truncated show like Match of the Day wasted precious seconds discussing it at all.

The fear for the Nevilles and all the rest must now be that it really doesn’t matter anymore. The referee could have waved Dummett’s foul away or Salah could have dived for twenty more penalties, it simply wouldn’t have mattered, not really. Newcastle were beaten yesterday once Lovren’s screamer nearly ripped the back of the Kop-end net off. The game could have ended 1-0, 2-0 or 3-0, 10-0, it doesn’t matter. Like 12 of the other 19 Premier League teams this season, Newcastle were never scoring in this game. Neither would Manchester United or Leicester City had it not been for goalkeeping errors. The rest of the current top-5, also second-to-fifth on the scoring charts (Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City and Spurs), have managed 3 goals in 360 minutes against us so far. Burnley’s goal was offside and involved a foul on the goalkeeper. Cardiff’s was a mere consolation in a 4-1 defeat.

Prior to yesterday, over 400 days had passed since a referee last gave Liverpool a home penalty in the Premier League, during which time the media persisted with the risible party line, the utter delusion, that the Anfield crowd influences officials, in the face of all available evidence to the contrary. After a disgraceful decision against Stoke towards the end of last season (a blatant handball), for example, one that could have ultimately cost Liverpool Champions League football, it was Klopp’s opposite number Paul Lambert who complained about the officials. The German merely blanked the linesman on the post-match handshake and said very little more about it. Liverpool — players, manager, coaches, supporters — don’t intimidate officials, they don’t even try, and if they do, they’re terrible at it. Truly.

Me, I think we should be tormenting officials at every turn, just like every successful team of the past three decades — e.g. Ferguson’s Manchester United, every side coached by Guardiola and Mourinho, Real Madrid regardless of manager, Chelsea under multiple managers, Spain — have done, because it’s an edge that we will continue to be unable to avail of while Klopp’s outbursts are limited to ear-bashing the fourth official during the 90 minutes and his players’ influence limited to Hendo or Milner having a quiet word with the referee. Needless to say, had Dejan Lovren driven Cristiano Ronaldo’s head and shoulder into the Kiev turf last May, there would have been a second Spanish inquisition in the NSC Olimpiyskiy Stadium.

Whatever Liverpool achieve under Klopp, they're going to do it the honest way, or at least as honest as anyone gets these days. Translation: they're going to do it the hard way. So fuck tainting any of our players as cheats, especially when we're getting no rewards for it on the pitch.

So under the circumstances, I’m sure the boys will forgive me if I don’t give two shits whether Mo Salah embellished his fall yesterday, but I will say that it’s just good manners to wait until a player has actually cheated before wringing your hands in moral outrage, like that time another utter fool accused Luis Suárez of kissing the tattoos of his family’s names on his wrist as a means of rubbing Mansfield Town’s noses in his fiendishness after a goal that came off his hand. Now that the Uruguayan’s accursed jockstrap has passed to the Egyptian King, we can but hope that he at least washed it first.

In the meantime, let us acknowledge that without a single penalty in over a year of home games, all the more incredible given the speed and precision of their attack, Liverpool were still good enough to secure a top-4 finish in May and sit undefeated at the top of the table in late-December. Imagine how good they’d be if they actually got their share of penalties? Maybe Phil, Kevin, Dion and the rest are scared that we’re about to find out?

Referees giving penalties for fouls, though, eh? The game is fucked.

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #885 on: May 16, 2019, 07:35:47 pm »
'Fan" touts should be named, shamed then taken out and shot....but put UEFA first in line.


@ Veinticinco de Mayo The way you talk to other users on this forum is something you should be ashamed of as someone who is suppose to be representing the site.
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #886 on: May 20, 2019, 08:17:03 pm »
As I've said before, Spurs are in for a shock when they enter the stadium and discover that Anfield is portable.  They wont be playing this game in even a relatively neutral stadium.

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #887 on: June 28, 2019, 11:28:42 pm »

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #888 on: July 8, 2019, 12:48:01 am »
We’re never gonna stop

It’s been just over a month since the European cup final. I don’t know how that could possibly true because the feeling of complete joy which still washes over me every day should have gone by now. This feeling of invincibility has continued to last and continues to make me smile like a psycho in public all the time. Nothing can upset me because I know that if I cast my mind back to a month before, I’ll have an immense sense of joy better than any drug. Until at least May 2020, (the emphasis being on at least ;)) Liverpool fc are the kings of Europe.

This is all new to me. Many on here will have experienced the feeling of winning the European cup but, for me, I wasn’t even born in the 70s/80s and even 2005 was way before my first memories of football. Me, and others of my generation, had experienced only misery. I’ve seen H&G as owners and Hodgson as manager. I’ve seen false dawns and near misses. I’ve seen great players move on, only to be replaced by average ones. I’ve looked on in envy as my United supporting friends watched them rack up title after title. In other words, I come from a generation of doubters. After all, what was there to believe in?

Looking at the past what great but, in my eyes, it was the closest I’d ever get to seeing true glory. That glory wasn’t for me as a Liverpool fan. It was for older generations but now, Liverpool were past their prime and the club which was European royalty was so far separated to the one I watched every week that it was hardly even the same club.

That all changed in October 2015. As soon as I saw that Jurgen Klopp was manager of my football club, I knew instantly that we were destined for the top and that the glory days that seemed so distant would become a reality for me. This was the day that I knew we were destined for the top. That was the day that I changed from a doubter to a believer.

Since that day I’ve seen my fair share of great moments. The Europa league run of 2016 and the Champions league run of 2018 were incredible and have given me memories that will never fade but the one thing that was missing was a big shiny cup that we could lift above our heads and shout from the rooftops, “we are Liverpool and we’re back”.

The European cup finals of 1977, 1978, 1981, 1984 and 2005 are five games which will be forever held up in legend. Over time, they seem to have been given a mythical status and how I imagined them was very different to how it really felt- it’s 10x better! I’ve often imagined these great moments to be very clear. Watching Tommy Smith rise above his marker into the sky and nod the ball in. Seeing the Real Madrid defence part as Alan Kenedy glided through and stuck the ball in the net. Following the ball the whole way before it met Gerrard’s head and gave us hope when we should be down and out. However, the moment Origi stroked the ball in to the bottom corner it was more of a complete blur. There was a moment when I saw the ball land at his feet and I knew he’d score when time stood still for a while but after that, seeing him put it in the net was complete mayhem.

This isn’t happening, it can’t be! My club are about to be champions of Europe and I’ve just witnessed a historic game of football. There was a moment of complete bliss when I realised that my entire life of watching football had led up to this moment where I could see Jordan Henderson lift big ears in Madrid and I knew that it simply doesn’t get much better than this. I’ll never forget the moment when I first saw that beautiful cup the next day,  seeing the shining trophy emerge from the ranks of players (or deities as I call them) as the bus rolled on along Queen’s drive. That was the time when the Liverpool I knew met the Liverpool of old and could stand next to them as equals. They’d reached the peak of European football, as 5 red teams had before, and they won’t be the last to do it.


Offline kavah

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #889 on: October 5, 2019, 05:16:29 pm »
We haven't has one in her for a while, and it's always worth it reading what HBHR is thinking

I had been extremely annoyed and frustrated that, for the second time in a week, we let a side back in that should have been on the end of an evisceration BUT our capacity to find a way to win is just fucking unreal. Not for the first time I'm reminded of Ferguson's Utd. Somehow, someway, no matter what the match situation before, we find a way to bring those 3 points home.

Looking further ahead, it's also extremely encouraging that - twice in a week - we've destroyed (on the balance of play) extremely good teams. It's extremely encouraging how solid we were today (for the most part). It's extremely encouraging that, after the international break, we should have Alisson, Shaqiri and Keita back, Bobby and Mane (who I think are only playing one game) a bit rested and a bunch of other players (hopefully) a bit rested and relatively fresh.

And, strange as it sounds, if Salah is out for a few weeks that might not be the end of the world - Origi needs minutes and has looked sharp, while Salah has looked just a little off and could probably do with some rest and to come back mentally sharp and hungry. I wouldn't choose that scenario, mind, but before the start of the season I'd have said we could cope better without him than without Alisson and look how we've managed that.

A colossal three points, unbelievable.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #890 on: January 31, 2020, 06:47:13 pm »
This simply demands a permanent place on any forum. Terrific stuff Howes lad. And what a memory!

 
Remember it very well. It was a 5th round FA Cup replay against Man City, when we were Div 2 and City were a force in Div1. We drew 0-0 at Maine Road, replay at Anfield. My dad told me to take the day off from school to queue for tickets, mid-week on a bitterly cold day. I was in the line for hours stamping my feet, seeing women bring cups of tea for their men. Of course the arl fella watched from the stands, me from the Pen. Snow on the pitch on match day.
Liddell's disallowed goal is burned on my mind. We're 2-1 down, 90 minutes are up and I'm edging down to the front of the Pen for a quick exit to get to the bus queue. We attack and the whole Pen surges forward, as it and the Kop always did when we were attacking the goal below. Liddell hits it on the run and it's in the net but the ref, back on the halfway line, has his hand in the air. Ball went in five sevenths of a second after the whistle blew, according to the papers. Broke my heart. Couldn't happen today, refs have enough sense to blow up when the ball's in neutral territory.

For years I had arguments with guys who weren't there but swore the goal was scored down at the Anfield Road end. This was based on a famous photo (you'll easily find it on the net) where you can see, in the background, what looks like pretty impressive terracing. That's just the Anfield Road roof taken through a telephoto lens from the Kop end. You'll find an account on one of the Man City sites that confirms we were attacking the Kop in the second half.

Thanks so much for the video clip Yorky. Alan Acourt, another favourite of mine from back then, shows well.

Apologies again, Ziltoid. Once you get arl fellas gasing, they can't stop.

Offline markedasred

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #891 on: March 13, 2020, 04:00:45 pm »
Herr Klopp

I don’t think this is a moment where the thoughts of a football manager should be important, but I understand for our supporters they will want to hear from the team and I will front that.

First and foremost, all of us have to do whatever we can to protect one another. In society I mean. This should be the case all the time in life, but in this moment I think it matters more than ever.

I’ve said before that football always seems the most important of the least important things. Today, football and football matches really aren’t important at all.

Of course, we don’t want to play in front of an empty stadium and we don’t want games or competitions suspended, but if doing so helps one individual stay healthy - just one - we do it no questions asked.

If it’s a choice between football and the good of the wider society, it’s no contest. Really, it isn’t.

Today’s decision and announcement is being implemented with the motive of keeping people safe. Because of that we support it completely. We have seen members of teams we compete against become ill. This virus has shown that being involved in football offers no immunity. To our rival clubs and individuals who are affected and to those who later will become so, you are in our thoughts and prayers.

None of us know in this moment what the final outcome will be, but as a team we have to have belief that the authorities make decisions based on sound judgement and morality.

Yes, I am the manager of this team and club and therefore carry a leadership responsibility with regards to our future on the pitch. But I think in the present moment, with so many people around our city, the region, the country and the world facing anxiety and uncertainty, it would be entirely wrong to speak about anything other than advising people to follow expert advice and look after themselves and each other.

The message from the team to our supporters is only about your well-being. Put your health first. Don’t take any risk. Think about the vulnerable in our society and act where possible with compassion for them.

Please look after yourselves and look out for each other.

You’ll Never Walk Alone,
Jürgen
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Offline Medellin

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #892 on: April 14, 2020, 04:53:54 pm »
Reminiscing about posts I enjoyed reading early doors here & will post a few I liked waaay back, will have to do some searching to find them.

Firstly..from 2002.

Homesick posted..


Banished high in the top southeast corner of the Kop like a miniature Soviet Gulag, several hundred snotty-nosed urchins would cram together for each home game – extras from Oliver Twist – screaming, fighting, spitting and supporting the Mighty Reds from the Boys’ Pen. This was Anfield 1961.

Many had graduated from the three-quarter-time brigade.  Those kids who would walk from the far corners of Liverpool, or bunk on the bus, to stand outside the ground for the entire match so we could slip in when the gates opened after 70 minutes to let fans out.  We would swarm in and quickly disperse throughout the Kop trying to find a spec with a view.  I still think of matches reaching three-quarter time even today.

We would then walk home with the crowds of grown ups skipping alongside the men with the scarves, flat caps and rattles, listening to the chat and pretending we had been there all the time.  In our minds we had seen the entire first half and early second half action even though we had only heard the roars and the oohs and aahhs from outside the massive Cathedral that is Anfield. 

We used to imagine the action as we waited for three-quarter time.  The mental pictures were far superior to anything Sky could serve up and our analysis was a league apart from that offered by Andy Grey today.  We would play out imaginary scenes outside the ground kicking punctured plastic footballs covered in dog dirt against the huge doors at the Kop end until they finally opened.  My heart would rise and fall on the waves of sound coming from the ground.  You could tell which half Liverpool were in, the amount of possession they had, whether they were going through a lull or attack-attack-attacking like a mighty red wave. 

Sometimes the more daring would try to dart under the turnstile as an adult went through before the match but I never did – I was always afraid of getting caught.  Those were the days when officials would thump you and if you complained to your dad he would thump you too for doing something that deserved a thumping!  Three quarter time was my only way of seeing Liverpool as they rose from the old Second Division to the First Division – the wonderful First Division (that promotion was a wonderful experience) - in those glory days before the Premiership.

I can’t remember, but I think there was an age limit for the Boys’ Pen, unless you were accompanied.  That must have been the case because, as an only child, I remember asking older lads to say I was their little brother and get me in.  The trouble is, the kids who went on the Boys’ Pen were hard.  You had to be a survivor even to queue up.  You could not show fear.  Fear would be pounced on.  There were no away fans but the number of scraps before, during and after the match was scary.  The Kop was warm and friendly – the Boys’ Pen was angry, aggressive and mean.

But I remember clearly my first experience on the Boys’ Pen.  I remember the fear as I climbed smelly concrete stairs higher and higher and the exhilaration when I finally came round a grey/white/yellow concrete wall and looked down on Anfield.  I don’t think I’d been as high in any man-made structure before in my life.  I must have been 10 or 11.

I remember being hungry and thirsty.  Breakfast and lunch didn’t exist on match days except for “give us a chip mate”.  And we never dressed for the weather.  There were lots of cold, wet, hungry, smelly kids on the Boys’ Pen.

And I remember when you got in and legged it up the stairs and looked out over Anfield that the ground was empty.  The tradition in the Boys’ Pen was to get in early, try to get to the front and then, if you were hard enough, try to escape.  All that effort to get in and all we wanted to make an escape bid.  The Kop was our freedom.  The Boys’ Pen was a transit camp to heaven.  It was a rite of passage for any Liverpool kid in the 60’s.

And so the regular pre-match entertainment got underway.  As the Kop filled up the boys in the Pen got braver and braver.  One by one kids would make a dash for freedom.  Some would climb the railings to the point where they almost met the rafters.  They would sway on the top risking broken limbs or being impaled on rusty metal – just because you had too.

Perhaps it was a testosterone thing, perhaps it was claiming hierarchy in some local gang, perhaps it was just survival, but it was risky, brave and awesome to watch.  Other kids would create a diversion by staging a mock fight – or was it real – nearby.  The police and stewards would race to the scene trying to prevent some kid getting his head kicked in and the bid for freedom would begin in earnest.

Once on the top of the railings the kid would balance.  Sometimes an official would pull the child’s leg to stop him jumping – that always seemed the more dangerous option.  The Kop would cheer and chant, a fireman’s blanket of fans would gather to catch the kid and it was all over in seconds.  The urchin would leap, the Kop would catch, and the kid would fall to the ground and, like a rat up a sewer, would disappear from view in the blink of an eye.  The Kop would let out a mighty roar, the Boys’ Pen would let out a mighty squeal and the next escapee would line up, as the next decoy scrap would begin.

I can’t really remember making a bid for freedom.  I can remember trying but I also remember enjoying my time on the Boys’ Pen and singing so hard my chest, throat and head hurt.  We thought we sounded great.  Our job was to re-ignite the Kop when they had gone quite.  I didn’t realise until I claimed my spec on the Kop the following season that we were producing an ear-splitting cacophony of screeching that was painful.  The Kop only joined in to drown out the kids on the Boys’ Pen.

When I first took my lads to the family section at the back of the Kop I pointed out where the Boys’ Pen was.  The youngest asked me to explain what it was.  “Another day son, it doesn’t make sense these days”.   It is a rite of passage that thankfully they will never have to go through.

YNWA

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=2743.msg26220#msg26220
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Offline Medellin

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #893 on: April 17, 2020, 10:54:56 am »
Stuff like this..love it.

Name: cherith

Subject: Roma 2001 - ( inc. hell hath no fury......) hehe

Roma 2001

What a nightmare! My car breaks down on Smithdown on Tuesday night – aprox 8 hrs before I’m due to drive to deepest darkest Frodsham to meet the lads and girl I’m travelling to Rome with. It’s been dramarama from the word go for so many of us… tickets / british midland bookings.. and now car trouble. It makes for a crazy start ......

I get picked up in Frodsham at 6 am Valentines morning. Some of you will know that I have a bit of history in this town – up until 2 months ago I lived here with my ex – who happens to be part of the group I’m travelling with – 6am on a cold foggy Valentines morning with your ex…? It’s got to be something to do with LFC really hasn’t it.

The journey to Birmingham is quite pleasant really. Big thanks to Mark for driving us down and to Norman for nipping off for a ciggie with me at any opportunity and to Carl just for having a laugh and not making me go with the ex! :0) After a few beers at 9 am in Birmingham Airport we set off to Rome via Munich. Free booze all the way courtesy of Lufthansa – though we did drink the beers dry. By the time we’re approaching Munich I’m bevvied… and I’m not alone. Much to Carl’s amusement I point out the window and exclaim “ wow have u seen that road??” only to realise it’s the Rhine….

When we get to Munich we have –10 mins to catch our connecting flight. Frank starts us all singing “Scouser Tommy” and the look on Michelle’s face as she realises we’re about to sing about Nazi’s is priceless. The bus stopped at the terminal building in the nick of time - I don’t know where I’d have put my face if we’d sung that! We are hurried through the terminal by a stressed out Lufthansa employee to ensure we make the flight to Rome and as we board A nasty looking man asks if we are going to riot on the plane… I must have nodded off midflight - or maybe it was the cognac but the next thing I remember is arriving in Rome airport. You’d have thought they were carrying the bags off one at a time as they took so long, and the police dogs were freaking me out a little. Well you never can be too sure can you?

We went to make enquiries about taxi’s into Rome only to be greeted by an over-enthusiastic but helpful woman who exclaimed to our amusement “Welcome to Rome - I’m from Manchester” – you can imagine the response. Even the taxi journey was a scream. The driver was a Roma fan and asked if he could sing us one of their songs… “ fire ahead mate” we replied feeling a bit of a sing song coming on! After subjecting him to Scouser Tommy ( again) we were most impressed when he pulled up aside the other taxibus at the lights and sang it back to our mates!! Passing the Collesium we saw a gang of scousers having their picture taken with a hub cap! Hehehe. All the Cheshire crew where staying in a youth hostel ( with hot water and everything ;0) ) and when I got dropped off at my lush Hotel I had to go straight to bed to sober up. I was a little alarmed that noone seemed to know where Louise ( of the pouting variety) was… but soon enough she appeared in our room - all smiles with bags of energy!!

We quickly located the rest of the crew ( no prizes for guessing where) and set about getting hammered again. I think it was the grappa in St patricks that did it…. But we were all wasted by 10! Louise, I salute you for getting that down in one! Kenny being his ever charming self haggled for some red roses for me and Louise for Valentines day, and I have a vague memory of Johnny Mac arriving with his mate form Czechoslovakia? to meet Kenny and then we were off on Steve’s “ Tour de Rome” . I think we met Will M and his family somewhere near the Trevi/Albert but by that time the Albert had been closed down. After heading back to St Patricks for the strangest toasties I’ve ever seen we went back to the Laurentia and proceeded to drink the hotel bar dry. I have never seen some of the lads so pissed. Some ( Bobby, Mark etc ) had been on the Roman Pub Crawl and were equally as drunk as we all were! Kenny and I stayed up setting to world to rights before putting others to bed and then crashing.

Thursday – match day. Wish I hadn’t drunk all that Tequila on top of all that grappa. I thought I felt rough until I saw the state of Steve and even worse Ant!!!! At the Trevi that afternoon Ant just blended right in with the colour of the stone! Everywhere else was awash with red and white, and you all know the stories of the Japanese tourists at the fountain…. Later we set off for Villa Bourgese – only to find every bus but ours! I did see a couple men in collars knocking about but only later realised when they were passing their bottles of “ Holy Water” – gin and vodka I believe, down the bus that they were plassy priests! I later worked out that it was Kevin Sampson ( father kevin ) and his crew ( father ) Mick ( father ) Sean etc. My memories of the bus journey there are more of us all dying for the loo than anything else. The holy water bottles got filled a couple of times..yak and when I got to the ground and saw the state of the ladies I wished I’d gone on the bridge too!

Despite being in two parties of 15 ish each I couldn’t spot a soul I knew in the stadium but spotted the fathers dog collars from about 50 rows down. It was quite a good spec in the end and we were high enough up to not really have to worry about the bottles/coins/oranges being launched at our comrades below. And to top it all off… Liverpool were superb. I had been a little apprehensive before the game – I mean I was worried about our Midfield – no Stevie, no Igor the list of injuries I had seen reported in the papers was frightening. But we totally outclassed the Romans. I was in awe at the speed that the Roma defenders were passing the ball but we held them and at half time the home fans provided more entertainment for us by kicking 7 kinds of shite out of eachother.

Second half kicked off and there was a buzz of anticipation amongst the reds – if only we could get that away goal. I can honestly say that when Owen put that first goal away I have never been so delirious! I think we all ended up a couple of rows ahead of ourselves…I was so made up I took a photo of the scoreboard! I think we all knew then we were gonna have the Romans. Cue Owen again… Superb. I was so proud of the Liverpool fans – we sang our hearts out, and apart from the odd knobhead we were impeccably behaved. We truly were the Best Behaved Supporters in the Land” and it’s handy that we won cause the rest is also true! It would have been an unbearable wait in the stadium otherwise……and the bus fiasco? The only downer was that by the time we got back to our hotel ( after meeting Jamie, Alex and a few other stragglers) I was so cold and tired I went to bed! But I know the lads stayed up, ehm watching telly!!!!

Friday there was only me and Steve ( Rushian ) left out of our crew. I wasn’t in the best of moods and I later realised this was cause I hadn’t had the chance to celebrate our superb win! After a trip to the Collesium and watching 2 kids almost have a japanese Tourist’s purse off on the metro, we went to see the pope! Now I’m a Northern Ireland Proddy ( very very seriously lapsed) but I had to have a moment when I got to the Vatican. It truly is amazing… if the lads had of been there I’d have insisted on a kick about! I looked everywhere for a “ pope on a rope” for my mother – anything disrespectful would have made her smile… but to no avail. Still it was magnificent. The thing that cheered me up most that day was when Steve and I decided to go to the Albert that night. We knew any reds left would head here…and we weren’t wrong. I was no sooner over the door than slamming tequila, and within an hour I think I’d convinced myself I was on Walton Breck Rd as usual. I met a load of reds that night.. memorably Lloyd, John and Lisa and Peter and his son. Peter was boss… I asked how long he’d been following the reds and he remarked that he was 69, had been drinking all day and hoped that his son wouldn’t tell his missus! I also remember him telling me his daughter has 16 middle names….. There were a few dodgy songs being sung and I heard songs about Beckham that I can’t believe people even sing! But hey, you can’t have everything! As we left singing “ We only sing when we’re swimming” I was almost tempted ( against my better judgement) to join the lads in the Trevi! Girl boobs v Man boobs was the challenge I raised! Thankfully I didn’t… but I did have fun down there with the Waterloo lads.. I’m still not sure who’d have won….

I fell into bed that night with my trip complete! I had a fantastic time, met loads of new reds – some of who I have already run into in the Kop on Sunday – others I’m sure I’ll see between Thursday Night and Sunday! What a week!!! Thanks to everyone who made it so much fun!

I should probably leave this paragraph out – but hey it was part of my trip!! The group I travelled with were not the same group I chose to stay with when in Rome. This was no reflection on any of the Cheshire Crew who are all a top laugh! But to save any boring arguments with my ex( of 10 weeks ) … - though bless him..he did buy my duty free on his credit card at Rome Airport. Halfway between Rome and Frankfurt I get a text message informing me that he is now getting it on with my best mate of 20 yrs…. She is welcome to him and I mean it….but I’d just like to take this opportunity to thank him for the duty free… for the money I still owed him from the flights, the car insurance and all the tickets last season. Nice one mate.

The thing that gets me is that in his defense he told me ( as I was snatching a West Ham stub out of his hand) that he didn’t want to tell me before Rome cause it would have spoiled my holiday!!!! Hehe – that still makes me laugh! :0) Nothing could have spoiled the time in Rome… and for a fella I spent 12 long months with in deepest darkest Frodsham he has forgotten that my love affair with LFC runs much deeper that that with any man! Cheers! See you in Porto? Not if I see you first!!!!!
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Online royhendo

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #894 on: July 23, 2020, 08:41:31 am »
Dont post a lot on here, but spend a lot of time reading people that are a lot better than me of expressing their feelings.

Tonight I spent the evening with my lad who was 22 last week, and the lads I go to the game with from the west country. We do 1000's of miles a year watching Liverpol play and although it was strange watching it in my garden with the people I love it was very special. We toasted to people that we know were taken too soon, and didnt get to witness tonight, and counted ourselves lucky that we are fit and healthy enough to celebrate together. It was very emtional but we made memories that will last until the day I die.

This team is special, and in my 30+ years of going to the game I dont think I have been so thoughtful, I have celebrated many trophies and had a lot of special moments, but tonight was different, tonight was life affirming and tonight was a culmination of years or frustration, anger, sadness and eventually joy. It really did make me appreciate the true meaning of the "golden sky".

Tonight I have laughed, I have reminisced, I have cheered and I have cried, these are the times of our lives that we live for and I am happy.

Thank you Jurgen, thank you to the players that have made this happen. Whatever the future holds we have had this moment, and at some point in the far future when I am driving home from a game at Anfield at 2am, and we have been shit, I will think of tonight and smile.

Ta for this mate. :)
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Offline kavah

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #895 on: August 1, 2020, 08:11:57 pm »
This is a cracker

Wrote a bit of a lighthearted narrative article over lockdown about how Bobbys song started in Belgrade for anyone interested!

https://benstevenson95.wordpress.com/2020/06/30/the-roberto-firmino-song-a-short-story/

Offline oojason

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #896 on: August 5, 2020, 12:34:10 pm »
.



• A mini-index of RAWK's 'Liverpool Audio / Video thread' content info; for years gone by, recent times, Season Reviews, Cup Final victories - Domestic, European, and World, etc:-



RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread'; 2021/22 Season Review (+ Lge Cup, FA Cup, & CL Finals) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17898391#msg17898391

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread'; 2020/21 Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17771235#msg17771235

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread'; 2019/20 Season Review (League Title Win) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17280340#msg17280340 : an alt link

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread'; 2018/19 Season Review (+ Champions League Final) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16668435#msg16668435

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread'; 2017/18 Season Review (+ Champions League Final) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16070203#msg16070203

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread'; 2016/17 Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg15352060#msg15352060

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread'; 2015/16 Season Review (+ Lge Cup & Europa Final) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg14817798#msg14817798

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread'; 2014/15 Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg13848727#msg13848727

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread'; 2013/14 Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg15172355#msg15172355

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread'; 2008/09 Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=224351.msg17840666#msg17840666


For 2022 Champions League Final vs Real Madrid, in Paris content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg18351027#msg18351027 (+ CL Final Index)

For 2019 Champions League Final vs Spurs, in Madrid content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16658201#msg16658201 (+ CL Final Index)

For 2018 Champions League Final vs Real Madrid, in Kiev content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16066001#msg16066001

For 2007 Champions League Final vs AC Milan, in Athens content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17837933#msg17837933

For 2005 Champions League Final vs AC Milan, in Istanbul content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=293988.msg10388550#msg10388550

All Liverpool European Cup Final Victories content ('77, '78, '81, '84, '05, '19) : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17178860#msg17178860


2001 - 5 trophies in a year (Seasons 2000/01 & 2001/02 + 2 CL Qualifications) : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17818523#msg17818523

2019 Champions League Semi-Final - 2nd leg vs Barcelona match content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16617450#msg16617450

2007 Champions League Semi-Final - 2nd leg vs Chelsea match content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg3625035#msg3625035

2005 Champions League Semi-Final - 2nd leg vs Chelsea match content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17156070#msg17156070

RAWK's 'The 25th of May: Happy Istanbul Day' thread (many, many videos) : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=293988.msg10388550#msg10388550


2001 UEFA Cup Final vs Alaves content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17171664#msg17171664

All UEFA Cup Final victories content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17175721#msg17175721

2019 UEFA Super Cup Final vs Chelsea content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16764173#msg16764173

All UEFA Super Cup Final victories content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17175752#msg17175752

All FIFA Club World Cup Finals content ('81, '84, '05, '19) : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16953402#msg16953402


2022 FA Cup Final vs Chelsea content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg18331284#msg18331284

All FA Cup Final victories content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17177332#msg17177332

2022 League Cup Final vs Chelsea content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg18200965#msg18200965

All League Cup Final victories content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16680176#msg16680176

All Charity Shield victories (and 'shared trophies') content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=3405.msg17877158#msg17877158



'Every Liverpool Premier League goal from every PL season' type video content : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17169045#msg17169045

'Season Review' videos (from 1987/88 onwards) & some older 'Club History' videos : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16108641#msg16108641


Every Liverpool game in full 2015/16 to 2019/20 - www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/i197ov/201920_liverpool_matches_in_720p1080p_hd_in

For a large selection of Liverpool games (and many other teams too; it is free - but have to sign up to view matches) - https://footballia.net/teams/liverpool-fc

Dave Waller youtube video channel (superb for older Liverpool match content) - www.youtube.com/user/davewallerfsmail/videos



1989/90 : 1987/88 : 1985/86 : 1983/84 : Shankly : Paisley : Fagan : Kenny : Houllier : Rafa : Cally : Barnes : Hansen : Souness : Rush : Clem : Ray Kennedy : Origi.



Some memorable / atmospheric matches in Europe (1991+) - Auxerre '91 : Barca '01 : Roma '02 : Olympiacos '04 : Juve '05 : Chelsea '05 : Barcelona '07 : Chelsea '07 : Marseille '07 : Inter '08 : Arsenal '08 : R. Madrid '09 : Benfica '10 : Man Utd '16 : Dortmund '16 : Man C. '18 : Roma '18 : PSG '18 : Napoli '18 : Bayern '19 : Barca '19.

More games - Ajax '20 : Atletico '21 : AC Milan '21 : Inter '22 : Villarreal '22 : and hopefully more quality and unforgettable European matches to come soon...

Even more - Celtic : St Etienne '77 : Howard Gayle & Bayern '81 : Forest 5-0 in '88 : Newcastle 4-3 in '96 : Newcastle 4-3 in '97 : Brann 3-0 in '97 : Everton 3-2 in '01.


Some memorable 'You'll Never Walk Alone's sung at Liverpool matches : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg18179364#msg18179364

Liverpool fans booing the national anthem - at many Cup Finals over the years : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg18179204#msg18179204


Victories vs Everton : from 1980 onwards - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg14854588#msg14854588

Victories vs Manchester Utd : from 1980 onwards - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=109143.msg17867008#msg17867008





RAWK's 'Liverpool Audio / Video Thread' - a season by season index...


2005/06 : Page 1 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.0

2006/07 : Page 22 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.840

2007/08 : Page 63 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.2480

2008/09 : Page 123 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.4880

2009/10 : Page 234 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.9320

2010/11 : Page 297 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.11840

2011/12 : Page 390 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.15560

2012/13 : Page 520 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.20760

2013/14 : Page 601 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.24000

2014/15 : Page 724 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.28920

2015/16 : Page 792 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.31640

2016/17 : Page 859 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.34320

2017/18 : Page 882 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.35240

2018/19 : Page 911 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.36400

2019/20 : Page 946 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.37800

2020/21 : Page 973 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.38880

2021/22 : Page 988 : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.39480

2022/23 : tba - likely around Page 1006...


^ each 'Page' starts around July of that year - when some sort of 'pre-season' training usually begins...










The 'Some useful info for following the football + TV, Streams, and Highlights etc' thread - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769.0


Massive credit, kudos and thanks to MikaelLFC - for all his hard work in providing countless links to quality streams for on various platforms for Liverpool matches every week over many years on RAWK... in his superb & invaluable 'Is the next Liverpool match on TV/radio/stream anywhere?' (www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=323139) threads.

The likes of Acaustiq, Barney_Rubble, TimbosGoals, vietliv, milankakabaros, samie, trada, dudek, El Denzel Pepito, Armand9, mersey_paradiso, scouseman, sinnermichael, Kashinoda, Mostar, BenS & the mods, and countless other Reds who've posted so much content up in this bastion of a thread, that I've embarrassingly forgotten to list, deserve massive thanks.


This is just my attempt at trying to show & highlight some of our rich history on video; hopefully someone will soon do a far better job of it all - until then I hope this is decent enough. LFC, the Premier League, UEFA, & FIFA are absolute gits for takedowns & copyright notices for online content - so some great videos have been lost over time. Football is the global game of the people - to claim ownership of it in this way is wrong - and especially unfair on those who make & provide their dedicated fan-made videos for free; for all to see & enjoy.


"For those of you watching in black and white, Liverpool are the team with the ball."


Last Updated: 5th June, 2022.





Apologies if not quite the thing people are looking for in this thread (+ for blowing my own trumpet) - though thought it may interest some who read this thread / help fellow Reds find info and content on how to watch the game on tv etc. Plus where some of the older content / Liverpool's past history can be viewed.

Please delete if necessary, mods.

« Last Edit: June 5, 2022, 03:07:51 am by oojason »
.
Some 'Useful Info' for following the football + TV, Streams, Highlights & Replays etc - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769

A mini-index of RAWK's 'Liverpool Audio / Video thread' content over the years; & more - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769.msg17787576#msg17787576

Offline Medellin

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Support the team,Trust & Believe.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #898 on: November 16, 2020, 03:19:15 pm »
If you don't understand 'injured'..

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=329699.msg17463848#msg17463848

Of all the great posts linked to or posted in here, I’m not sure this really makes the grade.

Offline 4pool

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #899 on: February 5, 2021, 04:41:20 pm »
Should be required reading:


It is simply beyond me as a supporter to comprehend how anyone who knows the merest thing about this game of ours can expect the repeatedly makeshift sides we've been forced to field all season to perform with any consistency to the level we all crave and have been privileged to witness over the previous three high octane seasons.

It is simply not possible.

The fact we are still somehow so reasonably well placed in both Premier League and Champions league in the face of the unparalleled adversity is a credit to Klopp and his staff and the players we have been able to field. Indeed, a real bonus at this moment which we should not be taking as much for granted as some of our followers seem to be.

I have followed this club since the days of the Boys pen in the late '50's and I can assure everyone on this board that this is not simply the worst injury crisis the club has ever experienced, it is two or three times worse than anything I recall and has wrought havoc with the team in a way I've never seen before.

How Jurgen has still managed to keep the show moreorless on the road I'm buggered if I know. I recall Shanks in the late '60's bemoaning bitterly that an early season injury to Alec Lindsey which forced Shanks to play Gordon Milne at left back was the difference between Liverpool winning the league and finishing behind the eventual champions.

One fucking long term injury!!! One!!!

God knows what the next four months holds in store - and who would put it past this team to still surprise us all - but for goodness sake let's all remember the stark reality of this season. That we have been well and truly fucked left, right and centre and that Klopp and the team need us to as supporters to stand firm and show our support in the only manner we currently can - which is on these godforsaken message boards.

And just as a reminder to everyone who might think I'm merely making excuses I'm re-posting Keyop's brilliant analysis from just a week or so ago of exactly where we've been fucked right, left and centre. And bear in mind that since he wrote it we've gone on to lose three more world class players in Sadio, Fabinho and Allison - hopefully for a short term.

Eat your fucking heart out Shanks, my all time hero. You really think you were unlucky back then!! You really didn't know you were born mate  :)



KEYOP'S POST

After a dominant and scintillating demolition of Hodgson’s Palace, the media, fans, bookmakers, players and manager were indicating that all was good with Liverpool FC, and this could be a successful title defence that all the injuries and misfortune couldn’t alter - just as a pandemic couldn’t stop us last year.

Fast forward a mere 5 weeks and 5 premier league games, and the narrative seems very different. We’re no longer odds on favourites, our biggest rivals are top of the league and 6 points ahead of us, the injuries and the last 2 seasons have caught up with us, and the media, players and even Jurgen himself are no longer expressing the positivity of our pre-Christmas position. We haven’t become like this overnight or by chance, but judging by the way some fans are reacting, it would certainly seem that way. Questions about individual players, the manager, the owners, and the perceived lack of investment show that some people can swing from believers to doubters in a much shorter space of time than it took Klopp to convince us otherwise.

Like many other fans, I thought Palace was the turning point – a message to the rest of the league that we won’t give up without a fight, and that we are still the best team in the league. What has happened since is far more complex and nuanced than the media will have us believe, and isn’t just down to losing key players, some players being off form, a run of bad luck, or inconsistent VAR decisions. It’s all of these and much more, and we’ve seen it all played out on the pitch over the last 6 months.

This thread is about why we are in our current position, and what we can do to get out of it. I’m tired of reading lists of players that will solve everything for us, or players that we need to sell, or players that can’t be arsed, or what Jurgen is doing wrong - anyone peddling that on here has clearly been asleep since 2017 and forgotten that we were top on Christmas day.

Our last 5 games makes for difficult reading. A sequence of P5 W0 D3 L2 and 3 points is our worst run in a very long time, against opposition we despatched with clockwork regularity in the last 2 seasons. It’s also coincided with other teams putting together more consistent runs, and displacing us from 1st to 4th (and possibly down to 5th if Everton win on Wednesday). However, there are plenty of signs that all is not lost – our underlying numbers are still good, we are creating the chances, and as bad as this 5 game sequence looks - it does contain clean sheets and only 3 goals conceded - which may sound like clutching at straws, but at least shows we’re not being breached very often and nor have we had any collapses like the 7-2 at Villa. Our defensive woes are creating all sorts of issues further forward, but they are not resulting in Alisson picking the ball out of the net any more often than last season – and certainly not since we lost Virgil and Gomez.

Losing our home record is disappointing but it was always going to happen at some point. A win against Burnley last week and suddenly its corner turned, home record preserved, and onto Utd today to get our momentum going again. Fine margins. A home 1-0 loss to Burnley would also have seemed much less of an issue in amongst a few wins. Clearly losing the best defensive pairing in the world isn’t the only issue, any more than buying a centre back would solve all our problems (although I do think a new CB is a big part of the overall solution - at least in the short-medium term).

I posted the summary below in another thread before the Burnley game, and that thread quickly descended into the usual kneejerk hyperbole that is sadly as predictable as night turns to day for some of our fan base. I’d argue that the challenges faced by Klopp and our squad are unlike anything any of us have seen before, and the chain reaction of events since that fateful day at Goodison Park have created a set of circumstances, patterns, and dilemmas that even a coach like Klopp can’t easily fix.


Virgil gets injured, so we play Matip with Gomez. No doubt a drop in quality, but manageable and still one of the best pairings in the league. We lose Virgil’s arial dominance at both ends of the pitch.

Thiago gets injured – just after we’d seen him break the PL record for most passes and pass accuracy in his first 45 minutes versus Chelsea. We were great without him, but no doubt a big blow to Klopp and the team who would’ve been excited at the prospect of him taking us to the next level.

Gomez gets injured so we play Fabinho with Matip. The defensive line moves back, and the midfield move back. We lose the pace of Virgil and Gomez, who were both great at bringing it out of defence and setting up attacks. Lets also not forget that those two seemed to forge an almost telepathic understanding over the last 2 seasons – something that is irreplaceable in any team.

Jota gets injured – an astute signing that very few of us expected, who added a different dimension to our attack, allowed us to rotate the forwards, and scored vital goals. His absence has been felt as much as anyone.

Trent and Robertson become more risk-averse as they know Matip and Fabinho don’t have the recovery pace, so don’t bomb forward as much – even if Henderson has the legs to help cover both sides.

The front 3 see less overlapping attacks from the fullbacks, and play is slower with more touches taken and a little indecisiveness creeping in as the team slowly adjusts to the situation. Our speed in transition has dropped significantly, and the fearless runs forward where we overwhelmed the opposition just aren't there due to the necessary adjustments we've made all over the pitch.

With less threat from our full backs, Mane and Salah drift out wide more often, where they’re perfectly capable of beating their man, but are far less of a goal threat.

Our press is nowhere near as effective without Fabinho and Henderson playing in midfield, which gives the opposition more time on the ball and more time to regain their shape when they've lost possession. They are two of the fittest , most versatile, and positionally-aware midfielders in Europe, and the drop in quality to Keita, Ox, Milner or Jones is massive.

The opposition adjust to our new situation - instead of having to deal with our front 3, plus our full backs and a midfielder marauding forward (a 6-man attack at times), opposition defences can start to play narrower, creating a wall for us to get through, and less gaps for us to break the lines. We often resort to deep crosses from the fullbacks or Henderson to mitigate this, which are far easier to defend against.

Matip gets injured again, and whilst we initially played untested players at CB earlier in the season, Klopp pairs Henderson with Fabinho for some stability. Our defensive line drops even deeper due to the lack of pace to deal with counter attacks, which naturally pulls our midfield back. Without Thiago we lack a complete midfield controller. Without Henderson covering every blade of grass, some gaps start to appear in our shape. Our position on the pitch during games is often markedly different to last season where we compressed the play, forced mistakes and regained possession high up the pitch which led to so many goals.

Without both Henderson and Fabinho, our midfield and attacking shape changes. Players like Kieta and Ox are in and out of the team due to injury or form, and Wijnaldum plays virtually every game and can’t do it all himself. Jones had showed great promise early on but will need time to settle and find consistency. Players like Minamino and Origi show glimpses but can’t step up to fill the gap in quality. Shaqiri looks a stronger option but hasn’t got the consistency of fitness or form to be a guaranteed long-term solution.

With so many injuries and so many changes to our line-ups, our rhythm inevitably drops and our form is affected. The speed of our play is slower and there is a hesitancy in some of our moves, players start misplacing passes, with the front often 3 snatching at chances and receiving the ball in less dangerous positions.

There is unfamiliarity between players right across the pitch. They might see each other every day in training, but nothing compares to a competitive match for team chemistry and understanding. Players that would see familiar teammates next to them are seeing different faces, players out of position, players making runs they’re not used to, and with all due to respect to some of them - players that are of a lower quality. Wijnaldum has played with just about every possible different combination of players already and doesn't have Fabinho and Henderson beside him. Midfielders coming back from injury or poor form are trying to replicate a system that has an energy and ability they can't match, and they no longer have the fullbacks as a regular attacking outball, and are drawn deeper to protect the defence. Firmino's role is less clear, as he's torn between playing deeper or making runs, and he sees Mane/Salah out wide more often and marked more closely. Mane/Salah are missing the benefits of a high defensive line and a midfield press that saw them regularly receive the ball in transition with the opposition completely out of shape and red shirts swarming into the box.

The psychological effects of seeing teammates have season-ending or medium-term injuries cannot be understated – especially when its our best players who were instrumental to everything we’ve achieved under Klopp. These are mentality monsters but also human beings. The media, fans, players, and even Klopp himself have adopted a more downbeat tone recently, with Klopp in particular looking off form and a bit spiky in front of the camera. He remains a great leader and coach, but there's no doubt this has all taken its toll on him and the players, and he must be gutted to see all the hard work of the last few years be undone by so many injuries to key players.

The lack of fans is also a massive factor for us, and whilst this is the same situation for all clubs, there's no doubting the difference we make in the stands, and the connection we create with the manager and players when they need a lift. To make matters worse, opposition players and the officials aren't experiencing the power of Anfield, which we know down the years plays a big part in how games turn out. Just ask Messi.

Add in other short term injuries (Alisson, Trent, Milner, Tsimikas, Fabinho, Henderson), plus the VAR inconsistencies that have impacted us (and benefited our rivals), plus players having/recovering from Covid, and it’s been a fairly traumatic 6 months for the whole club. The players are also no doubt carrying some mental and physical fatigue from the herculean efforts of the last 2-3 seasons.


I've highlighted in bold what we've faced, which is unlike anything I've ever seen. These aren’t excuses for our current position. They are the reasons. Anyone in doubt about player quality, motivation, effort, or form simply needs to read all of statements in bold and ask themselves what would happen at other clubs under the same circumstances.

People slagging off individual players need to remember we were top on Christmas day and this is arguably the first difficult patch any of these players have hit in 3 seasons. Those suggesting we need to dismantle the team, or sell key players who might be past their peak are overlooking the fact that we’d probably be well clear of the pack again without the issues we’ve faced. We added Thiago and Jota as the cherry on the cake after last season, and with those two plus a fully fit squad we’d be unstoppable. People slagging off our 'tight' owners for not buying more players need to go for a walk in Stanley Park and look at that beautiful main stand. Go to Kirkby and see our state-of-the-art new training complex, check out the plans for the new Anfield Road stand, and remember it was FSG that brought Klopp to the club in the first place. Expecting owners to be devoted, charitable football lovers is naive in the extreme - this isn't the 1980's, and football has been on this financial trajectory for over 3 decades now. We’re also in the middle of a pandemic, which is a financial caveat that cannot be ignored.

I do wonder if Utd being top is more of a factor for some fans, and if we’d had this poor run and it was City, Leicester, or Spurs top of the league, perhaps there would be a little more calm and less knee jerking. Taking into account all of the factors listed above we’re doing incredibly well to still be in the hunt. It's not even halfway for us yet, and as we’ve seen with other teams – the table is so compressed and unpredictable that you can go from mid-table to top (or from top to 7th/8th) in a short space of time this season, so if we can find solutions to some of the above issues then we have every chance of number 20 this year.

It won’t be easy and might not happen overnight, but we are a club that always triumphs in the face of adversity like no-one else can, and keeps on fighting no matter what. Klopp, his staff and these players will find solutions and the form and results will return. Thiago is finding his feet, Jota is on his way back, and we might still buy a CB this transfer window. It’s unlikely that we will get the same bad luck and injuries in the second half of the season, and more likely that other teams might have similar issues (De Bruyne and Vardy out for 4-6 weeks shows that no team is indestructible). There is also no doubting that City, Leicester, Utd and Spurs are far more reliant on one or two individual players than we are, and I’d argue that Utd are a Fernandez injury away from a collapse – just like city with Laporte last season.

So where do we go from here – buy a CB? Change the formation? Go heavy metal and play risk/reward football until May? Or stick where we are and play our way back into form and out of this situation?

We are only 18 games in and a lot can (and will) change for us, and for all the other teams over the coming months. This is arguably the biggest test Klopp and these players have faced, but I have complete faith that they will find a way. As always with this wonderful club, when we’re in the middle of the storm we will always walk on until we find the golden sky.


https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=346846.0
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline kavah

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #900 on: February 6, 2021, 06:31:24 am »
^ great stuff from Timbo and Keyop. Thanks for putting it on here 4pool.

Offline redmark

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #901 on: March 5, 2021, 01:25:34 am »
One of the grimmest things for me was the fact that I fully expected us to lose before the game even started. Once they went 1-0 up, I knew it was done. Same with the Bitters game too. I'm generally a really positive person these days, so it wasn't anything to do with just me being negative. It was simply based on what I see before me and the vibe it invokes within me. My gut usually serves me well, but sometimes I wish it didn't. It told me if we signed Klopp he'd win us the League Title. It told me after Kiev that we'd be back and win Big Ears. When we came second with 97 points my gut told me we'd come back the next season and win that too.

One thing it also told me is something I've never admitted on here because I couldn't believe it myself. After we lifted the Title last season, my gut told me we'd be lucky to even make top four this season. I dismissed it out of my mind because I couldn't believe it, didn't want to entertain the thought anyway and couldn't envisage a way in which we could implode so badly. Now, here we are, and I'm cursing my own gut reactions to things. It's the same gut feelings that saw me hoping we'd win tonight, but fearing what felt inevitable.

I have to say, I've read this thread from start to finish now, and it's sad to see good people in here turn on each other like some have. I get it though. We all care. We've all been living through a pandemic, life has been hard and our club feels like it's in free fall at the moment. Tensions boil over. It's normal in many respects, but still a bit sad to see. I hope we can stand back a little once we sleep on it and can be a little kinder to each other tomorrow.

We often can't win as fans. Some want to keep the flag upstanding as they run up the hill into a blaze of flak and want to hear nothing negative at all. To others, that might look good, but it all feels a bit too head-in-the-sand and too idealistic to be true. Others say what they see in an unfiltered way. By unfiltered, I mean sometimes without wider perspectives being taken into account. That can and will piss off the flag bearers who see it as without nuance and based in hysterics. The bottom line is both sets care passionately, but handle stuff in different ways.

I have a bit of both in me. I love the romance and the idea of getting shot to pieces as I run up the hill with my LFC banner, all guns blazing in 100% undying support, but there is another part of me that sees glaring issues and wants to name them as I see them. It's often said that if we can't support in tough times we shouldn't be there for the good times either. I get that, but I'm one of those annoying buggers that will support until my dying day, but will also name something wrong if I see it. Personally, I feel you can be a good supporter and still stare reality in the face and talk about it. With that in mind, I really don't see the need for there to be only two camps that appear to be polar opposites. Really, most of us occupy the middle ground where we can be good supporters but also honest too.

I think we've all been on one hell of a ride in recent years. I've seen a lot from LFC in my 58 years, but the last couple of seasons were almost off the scale. It felt like the best I've ever seen at times, and when I think of the great teams, great managers and the collection of trophies Liverpool have racked up since I hit this planet in 1962, that's really saying something. I thought I'd seen it all, then Klopp's Liverpool matured and ripped football a new backside.

Since then, look at what's happened. A catastrophic pandemic sweeps the planet and turns it upside down. Our manager loses his beloved mother and cannot bury her. Our goalkeeper's dad drowns at just 57 and he cannot go home to be with his family and bury his father. One is standing on a touchline of empty stadiums in a meaningless season and the other is keeping goal in the same circumstances after just a few days off. We'll I've lost a father and other loved ones, and no way on earth am I going to work days later and giving my all. Not because I don't want to give everything, but because I can't. We have human beings trying to do their jobs in a state of grief and emotional turmoil.

We've had other players who have had Covid. We've had serious injuries the likes of I've never seen in my entire life. We are a club/team that runs on adrenaline and passion, yet we have a soulless season without fans in grounds. We have a fanbase that offers fantastic vocal support when it's really needed, yet not a one can enter the ground to do so. We have men down, yet can do nothing to help lift them. It's a perfect storm, isn't it? VAR and horrifically inept officiating has helped disrupt our flow and hamper us at crucial moments. Anything that could go wrong, has gone wrong. It has been an endless stream of problems in a relentlessly tedious, freak anomaly of a season.

With hindsight, I think it all came at absolutely the wrong time football-wise too. We went absolutely flat-out for two seasons. By the end of last season we had gone from nearly-men to champions of England, Europe and the World itself. An absolute tidal wave of emotion was released. All that adrenaline had finally reached its peak and the balloon had been finally burst. We'd done it. Champions once more.

Now all of that, like the most amazing night out, often comes with a mega hangover. Thing is, rather than being able to sit back, relax a little, bask in the glory then sleep off the hangover, we basically had to get straight up at 7:30am on Sunday morning and hit the road running once again. We were done, but we had to start over again with no recovery time. Look at Abu Dhabi after they went flat-out for two seasons. Even though they had a full pre-season their goose was cooked. It took them well into this season to get back on track. After two flat-out seasons we had to pretty much go again straight away and hit the ground running from the off. With hindsight, it feels like an impossible task. With the wheels coming off in pretty much every other respect too, it's proved to be impossible too. Personally, I don't think we'll see anything resembling the real Liverpool until next season. Mind you, knowing Liverpool, it wouldn't surprise me if we somehow lifted Big Ears again to round off the most ridiculous season in history.

To be honest, I'd be happy to turn a number six into a seven, but I genuinely cannot even get excited over that possibility given the circumstances around football and life itself at the moment. I'm not sure anyone is actually enjoying the game at the moment. By that I mean those playing and managing in it just as much as those watching it. The whole thing feels like an exercise of going through the motions to fulfill contracts. Given the societal backdrop behind it all, I can hardly blame any of them for dropping intensity and application. Going through the motions when you are mentally and physically exhausted is bad enough. Going through it in current circumstances must be soul-destroying. Doing it whilst bereaved must be like a living hell.

For me, the season cannot end quick enough. I'm knackered, I know most of you out there are knackered, and it's obvious that Klopp and his magnificent team of champions are knackered too. They all deserve and need a proper break in order to recover, regroup and reset for next season. Then, I believe, will we see Liverpool back once more.

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The focus now should not be on who the owners are, but limits on what owners can do without formal supporter agreement. At all clubs.

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #902 on: May 30, 2021, 09:08:24 pm »
Absolutely fantastic post by Timbo.

Where would all of us affected by Hillsborough have been without Phil Scraton?

It’s a thought that’s occurred to me at each and every key Hillsborough moment over these past three decades and did so once again as I listened intently to his compelling podcast on the Anfield Wrap [linked immediately below], dealing with the absurdity of the establishment’s latest weasel-worded desecration of true justice.

https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2021/05/podcast-phil-scraton-hillsborough-trial/

Would we ever have seen vanquished to the self-serving cesspit from where it was hatched that cacophony of heinous reality twisting and unpalatable lies which so characterized our unbearable tragedy and its aftermath without the priceless input of this incredible and indefatigable Liverpudlian and his determination to represent the truth and ensure it prevailed?

So many others, including most notably of course the families themselves, the HJC, Jimmy McGovern and Andy Burnham have either throughout the entire period or at key periods and moments during it shouldered the fight for justice. However, could the families, the survivors, those others of us who were there that terrible day as well as the wider Liverpool family and other decent folk who witnessed what happened and knew the truth ever have seen that moment when the truth of that day finally prevailed, had Phil Scraton and his uniquely steadfast forensic approach not been at the very centre of the effort?

Myself, for one, struggle to imagine it, which is why I believe the very least this uniquely extraordinary Liverpudlian deserves is a dedicated thread of his own on the main RAWK website.

I speak as someone who attempted as valiantly as I could in those early pre-internet days following April 15th to right the tirade of unspeakable establishment initiated/media driven wrongs. I did so with countless letters and phone calls to that same baying media that drove the onslaught. Ultimately, it proved to be a largely forlorn task. Indeed, the plethora of closed minds I encountered often seemed almost to take perverse pleasure in rejecting or ignoring any representations made, despite the legitimacy of what I was conveying.

As one lone sympathetic national reporter - Mike Langley of The Sunday People - who did happen to know the true reality put it to me at the time in that perfectly worded catchphrase that has been repeated many times since - “the lies were halfway around the world before the truth had got its boots on’.

And so, despite the findings of the Taylor Report, which for all its shortcomings did cite a failure of police control as a primary finding, it remained the pervading inclination – and in many cases the seemingly determined resolve – of so many beyond the bosom of our home city to vindicate the authorities and blame the fans. It meant the hurt and frustration lingered and the convenient scapegoat rhetoric which was fuelling it was to be reiterated many many times over the ensuing years, each time amplifying our collective anguish at the injustice which it seemed we were impotent to dispel.

Then, some five years after the tragedy in the text of his autobiography came Brian Clough’s despicable slur - “I will always remain convinced that those Liverpool fans who died were killed by Liverpool people”. For many back then, Clough’s words were to add a gravitas to their poisonous rhetoric, affording them even more impetus. And once more written efforts and phone calls to challenge that fresh found impetus of ignorance and venom, admirable as they were, were to prove largely futile in dispelling what so many seemed intent on believing. 

Imagine then all this time the feelings of those poor bereaved families exposed to such a persistent and impenetrable onslaught of lies and misrepresentation. Their innocent loved ones crushed to unimaginable deaths whilst much of the world outside laid the blame at the door of their fellow Liverpudlians.

I saw first hand the distress this sort of mantra inflicted on such folks when back in those early days I met with Phil Hammond and his wife Hilda who had lost their 14 year old son Phillip. Phil, who was then HFSG Vice Chairman, and Hilda had immersed themselves in unearthing the truth of Hillsborough and finding justice for their son but felt impotent in making that truth known to the wider world beyond. Desolate is I think the term that most aptly conveys how they felt back then. They despaired. Both of any semblance of justice ever being dispensed and of any sense of prevailing sensitivity and understanding of their plight in that wider world beyond.

They craved support but in those early pre-internet/pre-HJC days, such support was, by definition, thin on the ground. Thankfully, however, they had Phil Scraton. Back then, Phil Scraton by their side provided them with the human comfort blanket of learned and expert assurance they so desperately needed. How vital and irreplaceable he was to them.

To Phil and Hilda and other bereaved families he represented a virtual knight in shining armour; an erudite Criminology Professor at – and on – their side with his vast insight and knowledge of not only the Hillsborough disaster and all its causes and ramifications but also its place in the wider context of other UK disasters and their own corresponding establishment cover-ups. In those days when the families otherwise felt so alone and isolated, Phil Scraton and his team including Sheila Coleman and Ann Jemphrey were there for them. The Scraton team’s depiction of the denial of justice and the promotion of myth in the aftermath of the disaster in their initial No Last Rights publication provided a desperately needed crutch of perspective and sanity.

Crucially, ever since those early days, at every single stage of the Hillsborough story, Phil Scraton has been there for the families. And let us never forget for fans like us, too. To research, to scrutinize, to analyse, to challenge, to clarify, to advise and represent. His scrupulously researched and presented book, The Truth, provided precisely what it promised on its cover. His tireless ever presence throughout the entire Hillsborough justice process culminated of course in the pivotal role he so clearly played within the Hillsborough Independent Panel which unequivocally absolved the fans of any culpability for the disaster and established the culpability of the authorities, crucially their co-ordinated alteration of witness statements to deflect blame onto the fans.

Down the years so many have made tireless contributions to the pursuit of Hillsborough justice – and we honour them all most notably of course the families themselves – but let us make no mistake, Phil Scraton is the ever present individual who more than anybody else has ensured that the true story and legacy of the Hillsborough tragedy will forever be a matter of public record and not, the shameful obfuscation of reality that, forinstance, we witnessed in Manchester earlier this week with the scandalous establishment manoeuvring to prevent the clearly warranted prosecution of culpable individuals which served to inflict yet more anguish upon innocent and damaged souls.

Phil Scraton’s steadfast resolve after so many years of blocked paths to justice, set against hopelessly besmirched and corrupted odds when any prospect of the momentum that ultimately carried the fight to its rightful conclusion seemed but a romanticised pipe dream is a thing to leave us in awe. His indefatigable determination to right the wrong, complementing it with his expert insight provided the families with a unique expertise to match his innate empathy and became a cornerstone so crucial to their fight as well as the background lubrication to ensure that no matter how slowly for so much of the time they might have been turning, the wheels of justice being pushed never stopped inching forward.
.

RAWK salutes you Phil.



One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #903 on: July 9, 2021, 11:40:06 am »
I'm asking as an England fan because I'm English and Indian. My friends from my shitty little northern hometown are of indian and pakistani heritage but supporting England. Yet all I hear on this thread is about how racist the country is and how nice places like Italy are and people like you supporting Italy because of the xenophobia in England.

As a person of Indian heritage who has lived in various European cities - England (the UK as whole for a matter) is light years ahead of 99% the continent in the way it treats people like me. Yes I know you've done your various little tourist visits to cities and they've treated you nicely. Have you ever lived in Rome as a brown man? Did your African friend ever get raped and the police not give a shit just because she was African(thank god for NGOs in Rome)? Do you have a click in your ankle because someone randomly decided to stomp on it on a night out just because you look different and tell you that this country isn't your place to stay?

Have you ever lived in Krakow? It's a lovely city, I'm still here, 6 years now yet I've suffered a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone from 2 punches thrown at me by the faces of men I never saw with the words 'spierdalaj brazowy kurwa'. In Zagreb, another place I lived in and fell in love with, I was told 'n****s arent allowed here' before my friends intervened. This is in this decade just gone, the 2010s.

Let me tell you about a story in the 1970s when an old white man decided to take a 14 year old indian kid who wanted to earn extra money to Liverpool market to work every morning and would drop him off to school too. Let me tell you about how a northern town in England took in 2 orphaned twins from Uganda whose parents were killed by Idi Amin and helped them grow up and become successful pharmacists whilst keeping them in tune with their culture. When I lived in North West London - my close friend group consisted of a Punjabi Sikh, a Hindu Punjabi, a kid from Zimbabwe, a Karachi Christian, a Gujarati Muslim, a Jewish kid from Barnet and a Tamil from Sri Lanka, I'm a 'Kutchi' Hindu.

Why do I still live in a place with this kind of overt racism? My parents ask me that all the time, well my parents lived in 1960-70s England surivved and the country became accepting over time, so I'm hoping Poland will as well. I'm manager of a football team here, the first foreign founded club in the Polish league system, our captain has a rainbow armband, sure he's got kicked a lot for it too but our club is here for all (the Polish too). My club has 40 footballers from 24 countries and even more cultures. My ability to manage however is limited by the Polish FA, you have to be Polish to take coaching courses you see. Do you know who hasn't stopped me taking their courses despite where I live? The English FA, in fact their first 2 intro courses allow anyone anywhere in the world to take (my Brazilian, Angolan and Portuguese coaches have taken them - they've never lived in England). The course materials are also night and day to the ones in Poland, Croatia and other places - they focus on respect, positivity, empathy, inclusivity, disabled football, first aid training (especially CPR/defib).

So back to the England team, I think most people who hate them, look back at the 70s and 80s and think England as a whole in its attitude is still like that towards 'forengers' - sure there's not a single British Asian (such a wide grouping its a ridiculous term) - however to me and my friends in our backwater Northern town and to my friends in London - when we look at that squad they represent us best than anyone else. They are a product of what our parents and grandparents achieved in England.

But of course to some of you, I'm just a racist xenophobe shouting Ingurland who says effnik and innit
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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #904 on: July 9, 2021, 12:54:18 pm »

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #905 on: July 9, 2021, 01:36:14 pm »
Deserves a wider audience.

I've been trying to find where the post is so I can reply to it.

Any clues as I'd expected to find it in the Euro/England thread but couldn't see it?

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #906 on: July 9, 2021, 01:42:18 pm »
I've been trying to find where the post is so I can reply to it.

Any clues as I'd expected to find it in the Euro/England thread but couldn't see it?

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=348807.msg17848069#msg17848069

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #907 on: July 9, 2021, 01:47:26 pm »
I've been trying to find where the post is so I can reply to it.

Any clues as I'd expected to find it in the Euro/England thread but couldn't see it?

Debs if you click on the hyperlink at the top of the quote it takes you to the post :)

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #908 on: July 9, 2021, 03:34:07 pm »
Debs if you click on the hyperlink at the top of the quote it takes you to the post :)

Well doh!  So it does 🤦

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #910 on: July 11, 2021, 09:19:14 am »
^ Great post

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #911 on: July 11, 2021, 09:51:16 am »
A response to Scatman's post from Timbo's Goals that is well worth a read

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=348807.msg17848546#msg17848546
...If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #912 on: November 18, 2021, 05:38:41 pm »
This is a must read.

There was a man who worked for the Post Office whose job it was to process all the mail that had illegible addresses. One day, a letter came addressed in a shaky handwriting to God with no address. He thought he should open it to see what it was about.
The letter read:
Dear God,
I am an 83 year old widow, living on a very small pension. Yesterday someone stole my purse. It had £100 in it, which was all the money I had until my next pension cheque. Next Sunday is Christmas, and I had invited two of my friends over for dinner. Without that money, I have nothing to buy food with. I have no family to turn to, and you are my only hope.
Can you please help me?
Sincerely,
Edna
The postal worker was touched. He showed the letter to all the other workers. Each one dug into his or her wallet and came up with a few pounds. By the time he made the rounds, he had collected £96, which they put into an envelope and sent to the woman.
The rest of the day, all the workers felt a warm glow thinking of Edna and the dinner she would be able to share with her friends.
Christmas came and went.
A few days later, another letter came from the same old lady to God. All the workers gathered around while the letter was opened.
It read:
Dear God,
How can I ever thank you enough for what you did for me? Because of your gift of love, I was able to fix a glorious dinner for my friends. We had a very nice day and I told my friends of your wonderful gift.
By the way, there was £4 missing. I think it must have been those c*nts at the Post Office.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #913 on: December 24, 2021, 05:08:16 pm »
Quality post from Koplass, off the back of the performance of leicester's away fans the other night:

Whoever told lads that they're the funniest people on earth has a lot to answer for.

And when I say 'lads' I mean a certain type of person - young, male, white, loud, overconfident, often working class (but not always). There's lots of them at football grounds and they're not smart enough to be witty so their only jokes are lewd sexual remarks or taking the piss out of other people. I know people like that and the way they speak to each other is sometimes as bad as the way they speak to people who are different from them.

And they deliver all their 'banter' with such bravado that you know they genuinely think they're hilarious, when in reality they're more Jim Davidson than Bill Hicks. It's why chants like 'feed the scousers' persist, the people singing them aren't very smart, they can't connect the dots between their chants and the political environment, they don't care that they're recycling a 40-year-old joke, they probably sing it every year and still think it's as hilarious as the first time they sang it and of course their favourite thing to do is to punch down.

And for football teams with fans who aren't imaginative enough to come up with songs about their own clubs, this type of chant is their fodder. It even extends to fans going to other grounds every week singing "this is a library" or "your support is fucking shit" - it's not offensive but it's also just such inane, tired, drivel that they continue to pedal.

And like you say, their retort when the offensive chants gets highlighted is usually "stop crying" or in our case "always the victim" which is, in part, a defense mechanism. I hope that the more it's brought to attention, the more they might actually have a think about it. It wasn't that long ago that Munich chants or throwing bananas at players was considered 'banter'.

I'm glad that Liverpool fans are mostly above that sort of thing, we've got such a lengthy songbook that the idea of singing about a team who aren't our rivals just feels a bit pathetic and small time. That said, there's still work to do on the rent boys chants which comes from the same vein of laddish humour. We're better than the rest of them so I'll be happy when that's fully wiped out.

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #914 on: April 8, 2022, 08:55:25 pm »
Humorous post of the year

Dear Everton Fans,

I have been a Liverpool supporter since I drew my first breath and I have been following my team home and abroad for 49 years now.

I have been involved in plenty of banter with your side of the Park and there have been some great days for both clubs during this period.

We have shared some momentous occasions and who could forget the day the whole of Wembley sung “ Merseyside “

We have also both shared the most enormous of grief together and I have never been so proud of the city as when we stood together proudly through those dark days.

The fortunes of both clubs are on different ends of the scale at the moment and I was disappointed to see you drop into the bottom 4. After the game I was appalled to hear fellow Liverpool Fans saying “ Imagine if we win the league and Everton go down on the same day.

I would hate this to happen because I genuinely hope and pray that these two things happen on separate days so we can have TWO 
massive Parties you Bitter Bluenose Bastards  !!!!
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W