Topic: Darwin Núñez (Darwin Gabriel Núñez Ribeiro)

[ScouserAtHeart]

His best role might actually be off the left in a front 3

[lamonti]

As ever, people wildly overrate things like first touch, technique, finishing ability (judging finishing from a small sample is basically pointless) and massively underrate the value of consistently getting high value chances. You can name loads of strikers in the top 5 leagues who on the face of it seem to have a better touch/passing ability than Nunez. How many can you name that have his ability to get shots off from high xG positions? A handful.

Some simple truths: xG is a better predictor of future goals than goals.

If Nunez continues to get shots off from the same locations he has been/at a similar volume he will score tonnes of goals.

Getting high xG chances on a regular basis is a more valuable/tangible skill than being a 'great finisher' - let's not forget that many people were proclaiming him to be a natural finisher just off the basis of one season where he overperformed  his xG. We simply don't have a big enough sample at the moment to know how good a finisher he is. Maybe he's a Son/Mahrez level finisher but it's very unlikely, maybe he's a Benteke level finisher but again it seems unlikely. Like most players, he'll probably end up being an around average finisher and given the number of high xG chances he gets that's absolutely fine by me.

Knives have been out for this guy from his first training session. Completely bizarre that some LFC fans seem happy to join in the pile-on. The main thing you I think we should realise about him is that he's more the Origi replacement than the Mané one (and even then, he's not that like Origi.)

[markmywords]

If Nunez only scores 12 - 15 goals, I would be disappointed, personally

When we decided we would spend big money on him, we expected more IMO, probably 30 gls all comps. if Nunez only plays half the games, it is due to klopp not thinking, he is good enough to do it, as jota is unlikely to get 30+.   I can't think of many as  "old" as 23  yrld forward playing  for a top 4 club who suddenly  doulbled his goal scoring thereafter, for the same club and maintained that.  I still have high hopes for nunez this yr, very few goal scorers have an averge 1st season and come great in their 2nd yr

[Red-Soldier]

His Wikipedia page said he scored loads last year [cetacean needed].

[Simplexity]

Knives have been out for this guy from his first training session. Completely bizarre that some LFC fans seem happy to join in the pile-on. The main thing you I think we should realise about him is that he's more the Origi replacement than the Mané one (and even then, he's not that like Origi.)

We did not spend 85m on a Origi replacement. Come on now.

[Eeyore]

If Nunez only scores 12 - 15 goals, I would be disappointed, personally

When we decided we would spend big money on him, we expected more IMO, probably 30 gls all comps. if Nunez only plays half the games, it is due to klopp not thinking, he is good enough to do it, as jota is unlikely to get 30+.   I can't think of many as  "old" as 23  yrld forward playing  for a top 4 club who suddenly  doulbled his goal scoring thereafter, for the same club and maintained that.  I still have high hopes for nunez this yr, very few goal scorers have an averge 1st season and come great in their 2nd yr

Loads of strikers have done it Van Persie went 5, 5, 11, 7, 11, 7, 11, 9 and then had three seasons of 18, 30 and 26. Big strikers tend to develop later than small nimble types.

Suarez got 4 in his first half season here, followed by 11 in his first full season. The next two were 23 and 30. At Barca he got 16 in his first season, followed by 40, 29 and 25.

[killer-heels]

If Nunez only scores 12 - 15 goals, I would be disappointed, personally

When we decided we would spend big money on him, we expected more IMO, probably 30 gls all comps. if Nunez only plays half the games, it is due to klopp not thinking, he is good enough to do it, as jota is unlikely to get 30+.   I can't think of many as  "old" as 23  yrld forward playing  for a top 4 club who suddenly  doulbled his goal scoring thereafter, for the same club and maintained that.  I still have high hopes for nunez this yr, very few goal scorers have an averge 1st season and come great in their 2nd yr

You are mad. 30 goals? Thats like Salah numbers and Salah at his best. Torres managed that what, once?

[Fromola]

If Nunez only scores 12 - 15 goals, I would be disappointed, personally

When we decided we would spend big money on him, we expected more IMO, probably 30 gls all comps. if Nunez only plays half the games, it is due to klopp not thinking, he is good enough to do it, as jota is unlikely to get 30+.   I can't think of many as  "old" as 23  yrld forward playing  for a top 4 club who suddenly  doulbled his goal scoring thereafter, for the same club and maintained that.  I still have high hopes for nunez this yr, very few goal scorers have an averge 1st season and come great in their 2nd yr

We signed him to score goals and be that finishing touch in the box rather than a like-for-like replacement for Bobby. Therefore it's ultimately goals he'll be judged on.

Hopefully around a 1 in 2 ratio this season (at least in terms of starts). He's capable.  Is he going to start 40 games though? Probably not which makes a need to be more realistic with overall numbers. His goals so far have been off the bench as well.

I wouldn't expect anything like first season Mo numbers but we do need him to replace Mane's goals. We wouldn't have broke our transfer record otherwise. If Diaz at least replaces Origi/Minamino's goals and Nunez replaces Mane's then there's still enough goals in the attack as long as Jota and Mo get good numbers.

[TepidT2O]

[markmywords]

Loads of strikers have done it Van Persie went 5, 5, 11, 7, 11, 7, 11, 9 and then had three seasons of 18, 30 and 26. Big strikers tend to develop later than small nimble types.

Suarez got 4 in his first half season here, followed by 11 in his first full season. The next two were 23 and 30. At Barca he got 16 in his first season, followed by 40, 29 and 25.

Van persie was largely injury prone, at arsenal hopefully nunez won't be, when he was fit enough to feature in 30+ pl games he was banging in 30+ gls like a goalscoring no.9 for a top club should be, or close to

unsurprisingly We weren't a top 4 team when Suarez was scoring 4 or 11gls, suarez scored 25 in his 1st season at barca, if nunez gets half of that this yr, something has gone wrong and it would be odds against putting it right thereafter

[Illmatic]

Van persie was largely injury prone, at arsenal hopefully nunez won't be, when he was fit enough to feature in 30+ pl games he was banging in 30+ gls like a goalscoring no.9 for a top club should be, or close to

unsurprisingly We weren't a top 4 team when Suarez was scoring 4 or 11gls, suarez scored 25 in his 1st season at barca, if nunez gets half of that this yr, something has gone wrong and it would be odds against putting it right thereafter

But the point stands very few strikers will ever hit 30 league goals or close to more than a couple times in their career. RVP was solid one in two goal goal scorer, Suarez is different level entirely but he does provide an example of how a player can accelerate their scoring rate after a season or two.

I have never known one of our signings judged as quickly and as harshly as Nunez given the limited game time he has had so far.       

[Eeyore]

Van persie was largely injury prone, at arsenal hopefully nunez won't be, when he was fit enough to feature in 30+ pl games he was banging in 30+ gls like a goalscoring no.9 for a top club should be, or close to

unsurprisingly We weren't a top 4 team when Suarez was scoring 4 or 11gls, suarez scored 25 in his 1st season at barca, if nunez gets half of that this yr, something has gone wrong and it would be odds against putting it right thereafter

At a similar age to Nunez.

Van Persie scored 5 in 24 League appearances in 04-05 and 5 in 26 League appearances in 05-06.

[Eeyore]

We signed him to score goals and be that finishing touch in the box rather than a like-for-like replacement for Bobby. Therefore it's ultimately goals he'll be judged on.

Hopefully around a 1 in 2 ratio this season (at least in terms of starts). He's capable.  Is he going to start 40 games though? Probably not which makes a need to be more realistic with overall numbers. His goals so far have been off the bench as well.

I wouldn't expect anything like first season Mo numbers but we do need him to replace Mane's goals. We wouldn't have broke our transfer record otherwise. If Diaz at least replaces Origi/Minamino's goals and Nunez replaces Mane's then there's still enough goals in the attack as long as Jota and Mo get good numbers.

Benfica also broke their transfer record for him and he managed 6 goals in 29 League games.  He then followed that up with 26 goals in 28 League games. We need to give the lad a chance. He is competing with Diaz, Jota and Mo for a starting place in a new league with new team mates.

[Fromola]

Benfica also broke their transfer record for him and he managed 6 goals in 29 League games.  He then followed that up with 26 goals in 28 League games. We need to give the lad a chance. He is competing with Diaz, Jota and Mo for a starting place in a new league with new team mates.

I'd be relaxed about him settling in for the season if other players are knocking the goals in and doing the business and then kicking on next season if that's how it transpires. Still very early days anyway, i've no issue with the player, people do need to give him a chance.

I doubt the owners would be happy with that though given what we paid. Part of the issue with the midfield is not wanting to pay x million for a player to back up Thiago or Fabinho.

[Ghost Town]

I have never known one of our signings judged as quickly and as harshly as Nunez given the limited game time he has had so far.       

Yep. Surely it's a mass performance art project or something. Otherwise it's fucking insane.

[kj999]

Another weekend goes by without a goal for this fella. How long do we wait before we can safely say he was a waste of money? He barely touched the ball this weekend. In fact I can't recall seeing him one dangerous position.

[K-B-K]

His best role might actually be off the left in a front 3

Genuine question, based off what? It appears one of his weakest aspects is dribbling, I think he has done some decent turns here and there, but overall he looks a bit janky when on the ball in wider positions, not to mention he's tall, so putting him out wider nullifies his aerial threat. I'm not saying he can't play wider, but it just seems to go against his main qualities.

[Bullet500]

At a similar age to Nunez.

Van Persie scored 5 in 24 League appearances in 04-05 and 5 in 26 League appearances in 05-06.

Van Persie was a winger at Feyenoord. When he joined Arsenal, Wenger did not play him upfront right away even though moulding him into a striker was the long term intention. Only after Henry left Van Persie and Adebayor got their chances in the middle.

[J-Mc-]

Another weekend goes by without a goal for this fella. How long do we wait before we can safely say he was a waste of money? He barely touched the ball this weekend. In fact I can't recall seeing him one dangerous position.

You might catch a few with that!

[killer-heels]

Genuine question, based off what? It appears one of his weakest aspects is dribbling, I think he has done some decent turns here and there, but overall he looks a bit janky when on the ball in wider positions, not to mention he's tall, so putting him out wider nullifies his aerial threat. I'm not saying he can't play wider, but it just seems to go against his main qualities.

I thought he looked ok when he popped up on the left. On the right though it looked like he was ice skating and very badly.

Its weird. Have to say its been a while since I have seen a player like him for us. He is quite unique and not like anything I have seen before and that goes for Haaland as well, albeit I had seen him at Dortmund.

[Red Bird]

Genuine question, based off what? It appears one of his weakest aspects is dribbling, I think he has done some decent turns here and there, but overall he looks a bit janky when on the ball in wider positions, not to mention he's tall, so putting him out wider nullifies his aerial threat. I'm not saying he can't play wider, but it just seems to go against his main qualities.

Based on his games for Benfica, particularly against us last season.

[El Lobo]

Based on his games for Benfica, particularly against us last season.

He didn’t start on the left tho

This is a bit like put Trent in midfield cos he sometimes occupies that position.

[keyop]

If Nunez only scores 12 - 15 goals, I would be disappointed, personally

This is an example of judging by absolutes rather than looking at the relative measure of who the goals are against, and when they are scored in a match.

Just like a high transfer spend shouldn't dictate whether a transfer window is successful or not, high goal-scoring numbers shouldn't necessarily dictate whether a striker has had a successful season. Obviously as a number 9 he'll be judged more closely on goals compared to a player like Bobby, but that's not the whole picture.

If he gets 15 goals and they're mostly winners against stubborn opposition (or other top 6 clubs), I'd much rather that than 25 goals where he's regularly getting the 3rd or 4th goal against bottom half teams. There's also assists and other factors he can bring to the team (such as creating space for others, winning penalties, etc) that will ultimately form the overall assessment of him beyond basic goal scoring stats.

[MonsLibpool]

I thought he looked ok when he popped up on the left. On the right though it looked like he was ice skating and very badly.

Its weird. Have to say its been a while since I have seen a player like him for us. He is quite unique and not like anything I have seen before and that goes for Haaland as well, albeit I had seen him at Dortmund.

When he's on the left, defenders give him space on the outside because they are wary of him cutting in. If he goes on the outside, he'll have enough space to put a cross and if he cuts inside he can unleash his powerful shot. Effectively, he has two options.

On the right, he doedn't look confident enough to cut in and use his left so he can only really go on the outside but he doesn't have the agility nor the acceleration to beat a man there. He only has one option on the right. He looked like bambi on ice there to be honest. The left/centre suit him to the ground.

[MonsLibpool]

If Nunez only scores 12 - 15 goals, I would be disappointed, personally

When we decided we would spend big money on him, we expected more IMO, probably 30 gls all comps. if Nunez only plays half the games, it is due to klopp not thinking, he is good enough to do it, as jota is unlikely to get 30+.   I can't think of many as  "old" as 23  yrld forward playing  for a top 4 club who suddenly  doulbled his goal scoring thereafter, for the same club and maintained that.  I still have high hopes for nunez this yr, very few goal scorers have an averge 1st season and come great in their 2nd yr

Given what we paid and the opportunity cost, I wouldn't be happy with 15 goals.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Hmmmm so if he ‘only’ scored 15 goals but each one was a winner you’d be disappointed, but if he scored 25 and each one was in a defeat you’d be happy?

Context hey.

[jckliew]

If he scored 30 goals, statically many of them will be winners.  So yeah, i rather he scored 30 than 15 goals. Afterall he IS a striker, no?

[killer-heels]

Hmmmm so if he ‘only’ scored 15 goals but each one was a winner you’d be disappointed, but if he scored 25 and each one was in a defeat you’d be happy?

Context hey.

I know what you are getting at but i too would prefer he scored 30 goals than 15.

[Wingman]

But the point stands very few strikers will ever hit 30 league goals or close to more than a couple times in their career. RVP was solid one in two goal goal scorer, Suarez is different level entirely but he does provide an example of how a player can accelerate their scoring rate after a season or two.

I have never known one of our signings judged as quickly and as harshly as Nunez given the limited game time he has had so far.       

Paul Konchesky?

[keyop]

I know what you are getting at but i too would prefer he scored 30 goals than 15.

I think we all would, but the general point is about how everything nowadays seems to to be judged on absolute measures rather than relative ones. Everything from goal output, transfer spend, minutes played, etc. Football has become so binary that sometimes a lot of context is missed in the analysis.

Nunez has suffered from many different things during his start - not least of which was joining an exhausted squad that had massive expectations on them after last season. Plus we've had injuries to key players, a new system bedding in, a disjointed midfield, Mo often out on the touchline (instead of linking up with him), plus Halaand's scored a truckload which has drawn unfair comparisons - the list is endless of how he's been judged (often unfairly) in his brief time here. All those factors don't even include a new country, new home, new teammates, new manager, new tactics, and a new league. If he scores 10-15 in his first season then so be it. He might well score 25 a season after that.

Of course the sending off didn't help, but all things considered, there was more of a chance he'd have a slow start than hit the ground running (given the wider issues in the squad), which makes the early judgements of him so difficult to understand. He’s played just 176 minutes of premier league football yet is already being questioned by some (and almost written off by others).

He has all the ingredients to be a monster player - power, strength, pace, good in the air, finds space, creates chances for himself, and is getting into the right positions. Once everything clicks with his teammates, and once he's up to speed with our system and we have key players back fit, I'm sure Jurgen will turn him into an elite premier league striker.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Paul Konchesky?

His mum had a lot to do with that to be fair

[RedKenWah]

Let’s be honest with Nunez, he’s being compared to Erling Haaland as he arrived at the same time and he’s gone to our rivals and plus the amount of money “spent” by Man City (obviously we know it’s not as cut and dry as that); means he’s going to be in for an unfair comparison.

Haaland is a proper goal poacher; hangs around the six yard, putting in tap ins, high booting players in the face and not getting sent off…

Nunez is not at that level and quite clearly has some development to do. Heck probably at the moment he’s not really at a place of starting. Will he get to the place of being a world beater, who knows but he’ll improve for sure; our scouting dept aren’t that inadequate when it comes to researching players so unless they had a real off day and decided to spend a shed load on a flop then he’ll come good at some point

[Funky_Gibbons]

I know what you are getting at but i too would prefer he scored 30 goals than 15.

Are we adding five goals each time now 

I think goals need to be taken in context, Jota for example has a habit of scoring important goals, either the first, equalising or winning goal. Those goals are more important than the padding in a comfortable win. 

[Gus 1855]

Bonkers he's under pressure.

The comparisons with Haaland are exacerbating the pressure. He's not Haaland, he was never going to be in the short term, it's a silly comparison.

Granted, some concerns about his technical ability, he still very much getting up to speed. He's only played 220 minutes of competitive footy, most of which were his first two appearances for the club. Haaland's played 824 minutes.

 

[Gerry Attrick]

Bonkers he's under pressure.

The comparisons with Haaland are exacerbating the pressure. He's not Haaland, he was never going to be in the short term, it's a silly comparison.

Granted, some concerns about his technical ability, he still very much getting up to speed. He's only played 220 minutes of competitive footy, most of which were his first two appearances for the club. Haaland's played 824 minutes.

I don’t think he’s under pressure. I have serious doubts about him even before he signed but I don’t have enough self importance to think my kind of opinion makes any difference whatsoever to how people at the club views players. If he is supported within the club I’m sure he’s okay.

[Fromola]

I think we all would, but the general point is about how everything nowadays seems to to be judged on absolute measures rather than relative ones. Everything from goal output, transfer spend, minutes played, etc. Football has become so binary that sometimes a lot of context is missed in the analysis.

Nunez is ultimately going to be judged on goals in a way that a different style of 9 like Firmino hasn't been.

I've made the point that he'll obviously need the minutes to get them, but i'd be confident he'd knock in a good return of goals if he gets the minutes. The issue is if he's not playing and out the side more that becomes difficult. It's not the end of the world for a player in his first season but let's face it we've spent our summer budget on him (and a club record fee at the expense of strengthening the midfield). We signed him to make an immediate impact.

[El Lobo]

Nunez is ultimately going to be judged on goals in a way that a different style of 9 like Firmino hasn't been.

I've made the point that he'll obviously need the minutes to get them, but i'd be confident he'd knock in a good return of goals if he gets the minutes. The issue is if he's not playing and out the side more that becomes difficult. It's not the end of the world for a player in his first season but let's face it we've spent our summer budget on him (and a club record fee at the expense of strengthening the midfield). We signed him to make an immediate impact.

Not necessarily. He'll be judged on how he performs and how the team performs. Drogba averaged 12 league goals a season at Chelsea, no-one would call him anything but a major success though. If he's a pest who doesn't score a vast amount for a striker but causes a load of shit for other players to shine and help us be successful, then who cares if he's not scoring 25 goals a season.

The bit in bold is peak Fromola. Never change, you're unique in a very special way.

[MonsLibpool]

If he scored 30 goals, statically many of them will be winners.  So yeah, i rather he scored 30 than 15 goals. Afterall he IS a striker, no?

We need to adjust our tactics to fit him into the team and Salah playing wider is one of the changes (so that they don't occupy the same spaces). Mo will probably score fewer goals because of the and Darwin will need to make up for it.

Every goal is important because the 2nd/3rd goal makes us more comfortable and GD is a tie-breaker in the league. They also determine how favourable the H2H is in the CL group stage.

[daggerdoo]

Agree with EL. I'd be more than happy if Luis and Mo are banging them in and the three of them are playing well together. He's going to get goals, but when he doesn't, I want him to have an all-round good game, holding the ball up, linking play, pressing and tracking back. It's very early. I'm about 82% sure he will work out just fine.

[Scottymuser]

If Nunez only scores 12 - 15 goals, I would be disappointed, personally

When we decided we would spend big money on him, we expected more IMO, probably 30 gls all comps. if Nunez only plays half the games, it is due to klopp not thinking, he is good enough to do it, as jota is unlikely to get 30+.   I can't think of many as  "old" as 23  yrld forward playing  for a top 4 club who suddenly  doulbled his goal scoring thereafter, for the same club and maintained that.  I still have high hopes for nunez this yr, very few goal scorers have an averge 1st season and come great in their 2nd yr

So your expectation was for him to score 30 goals in all competitions, yet still be part of a front 6 - lets be clear - Owen *never* scored 30 in all competitions, whilst at all times being our absolute first choice player;  Torres only just scored 30 1 season with us whilst being absolute first choice starter; Suarez only just scored 30 in 2 of his 3 seasons (30 and 31 respectively) whilst being absolute first choice starter; Mane (who you could argue Nunez is replacing) never got close to 30 at any point in his time with us. 

And his price tag really isn't that high - football inflation has been, on average, about 15% season on season, much higher than most people expect - if you inflate Mane's £37m cost from 2016 until now, the estimate would be around £68m - or about what Nunez cost! 

Last season, in all competitions, Salah got 31 goals, Mane got 23, Jota 21, Bobby 11, Diaz 6 and Origi 6.  If we assume Salah will have another 30 goal season (I think it is fair to assume that - despite him starting slowly, that he will pick it up and having the rest during the WC can only help), than to get the same number of goals, Diaz/Jota/Bobby/Nunez/Carvalho would need to get 67 goals - for that, we don't really need Nunez to get 30 as long as Jota/Diaz/Nunez all get between close to 20, whilst sharing minutes.