Topic: Welcome to Liverpool Thiago Alcantara

[johnj147]

He isn't a player who gets many goals or assists so if that's what you were expecting then you only have yourself to blame.

.  Don't see the point in buying him then.

[CraigDS]

.  Don't see the point in buying him then.

Aye, if they don’t score or assist then they’re useless. Need to fuck off any player who doesn’t have at least a 5 G+A figure.

[Ghost Town]

No goals no assists.poor if ask me .

Think you've given us pretty good reasons to never ask you

[johnj147]

We need goal scoring midfielders more than anything.

[Ghost Town]

We need goal scoring midfielders more than anything.

We don't play a system that requires "goal-scoring midfielders more than anything", but even if one feels that it might be a time for a change of system to one that prioritises goal-scoriing from midfield, we'd still need goal scoring midfielders and other kinds of midfielders.

[johnj147]

We don't play a system that requires "goal-scoring midfielders more than anything", but even if one feels that it might be a time for a change of system to one that prioritises goal-scoriing from midfield, we'd still need goal scoring midfielders and other kinds of midfielders.

. Don't you think we are missing massively from hardly any goals from midfield?

[CraigDS]

We need goal scoring midfielders more than anything.

Even if we do, Thiago’s position is not the one you’d expect to be a goal scorer.

[Ghost Town]

. Don't you think we are missing massively from hardly any goals from midfield?

The only reason we are is because the goals from attack have dried up. Klopp's system has three potent attackers and two wide creators for a reason - they are expected to get the vast majority of goals and assists, with anything from midfield a mere bonus. Consequently the midfield is tasked to do other things, other jobs that are not as flashy but are just as important and, indeed, essential, to allow the five-man attack to function.

The problem is that the attacking unit has broken down for the moment, and suddenly everyone's looking for goals from midfield. As I said, it may well be time to change the system and spread the goals out more widely throughout the team, but even then we'll still need players like Thiago whose principle job is not to score or assist.

There's no point in just judging every player by those two metrics

[RayPhilAlan]

. Don't you think we are missing massively from hardly any goals from midfield?

I'm pretty sure that if our strikers took just a few more of the presentable chances we're making for them, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[johnj147]

Yeah suppose a Stevie g souness ect just to smash from in from outside box .we never do it now hardly ever score screamers from outside box now ..Trent was unlucky with that volley other night.thiago did set it up too.

[BoRed]

Yeah suppose a Stevie g souness ect just to smash from in from outside box .we never do it now hardly ever score screamers from outside box now ..Trent was unlucky with that volley other night.thiago did set it up too.

You can't compare the current midfielders to Gerrard. Gerrard played in a 4-4-2 and sometimes in a 4-5-1 almost as a second striker behind Torres. When he started playing a more defensive role in his later years (for example, behind Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling), almost all of his goals came from set pieces. When he was at his most prolific, we still had three other midfielders in the team who weren't scoring much, even though many of them were top midfielders. As others have said, Alonso was the prime example, but there were also the likes of Mascherano, Hamann, Lucas and Sissoko. In those days, we even looked at goals scored by Benayoun or Babel as goals from midfield, even though they essentially played in Mane and Salah's positions. With three nominal strikers, you can't expect many goals from midfield.

I do agree, though, that we could do with more goals from outside of the box. Trent scores from a free kick once or twice a season, but that's about it.

[ToneLa]

We need goal scoring midfielders more than anything.

I dunno. I'd love more long shots, and yes, a midfielder to carry it forward and take long shots on - Thiago son, looking at you - but if I could choose one thing for us to improve at, it's beating the low block / parked fucking buses

How to beat Liverpool: Target a channel that isolates one of our defence. Get a cheeky goal. Sit the fuck back for ages packing men into the box. Hit us on the counter if you can be arsed, and repeat step one

[Fromola]

We need goal scoring midfielders more than anything.

The problem has obviously been what we signed Thiago for and what Thiago walked back into in January.

He signed for a team with a front three that score regularly and feed off good service (albeit with Firmino's Anfield drought the previous season) and Jota signed to add to that. Keita and Ox were signed as the goalscoring, creative midfielders but have offered pretty much nothing all season due to fitness or falling out of favour. Shaqiri pretty much the same, although he occasionally makes an impact.

He signed for a team that had the best keeper, the best attacking full backs in the game, the best defender in the game. Two fast centre backs who could carry a high line.

One of the best holding midfielders in the game in Fabinho and one of the best midfield engines in Henderosn.

Thiago was signed as a luxury to complement that. An icing on the cake signing.

Instead, all of the above has one way or another been decimated this season. He's not the all action midfielder like Gerrard or the powerhouse like Mascherano. He needs good options around him and he hasn't had it (bar maybe the few games he's actually played in a functional midfield).

[DangerScouse]

No goals no assists.poor if ask me .

Is this a wind up?

[DangerScouse]

We need goal scoring midfielders more than anything.

Agree with this but not in his position.

[A-Bomb]

I dunno. I'd love more long shots, and yes, a midfielder to carry it forward and take long shots on - Thiago son, looking at you - but if I could choose one thing for us to improve at, it's beating the low block / parked fucking buses

How to beat Liverpool: Target a channel that isolates one of our defence. Get a cheeky goal. Sit the fuck back for ages packing men into the box. Hit us on the counter if you can be arsed, and repeat step one

Bellingham would be an interesting option to look at, the kid looks like he's got it all - can carry the ball and arrive in the box.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Like I think it is a little of him not having the protection, and a little of him not fully adapting to us and the league, which is understandable given the shitshow of a year all round.

From what he was sold as prior to his transfer, that he was essentially the perfect example of Klopps number 6 (which he was the template for to be fair), I would expect him to run games even without that shield behind him. To use his intelligence and awareness to make up for what he lacked defensively (defensive skills which we were also told was still really great). That's not to say I think we were sold a dud, but more to say I don't think he himself is playing his best as well as not having the team around him.

I expect him to be significantly better next season. He has been not bad this year but not brilliant and not the player expected, but he missed half of it and came in to a team on fire, with zero tike to adapt to the league or us, it would be difficult to expect him to be the player expected under these circumstances

I feel next season he will be at or near his best

[LallanaInPyjamas]

He was brilliant on Saturday and taking him off was the biggest reason we didn't win.

I think he'll be much better next season, too. I'd certainly like to see him consistently playing slightly to the left of a two or a three, though. That's the area of the pitch where he can consistently play those whipped passes through the lines.

[tubby]

He was brilliant on Saturday and taking him off was the biggest reason we didn't win.

I think he'll be much better next season, too. I'd certainly like to see him consistently playing slightly to the left of a two or a three, though. That's the area of the pitch where he can consistently play those whipped passes through the lines.

He looks way more comfortable in a 2 man midfield than our usual 3.  I think there's a good chance the manager and his team look at implementing a new tactic next season and we move away from having two 8s who run up and down the pitch all day and aren't there to create.

[So… Howard Philips]

I dunno. I'd love more long shots, and yes, a midfielder to carry it forward and take long shots on - Thiago son, looking at you - but if I could choose one thing for us to improve at, it's beating the low block / parked fucking buses

How to beat Liverpool: Target a channel that isolates one of our defence. Get a cheeky goal. Sit the fuck back for ages packing men into the box. Hit us on the counter if you can be arsed, and repeat step one

But wasn't that what the pre injury Chamberlain gave us?

[Jookie]

Genuine question, do you think Thiago will be happy not playing CL football next season?

Whilst I don't expect any player to be happy about no CL football, for the majority of players that have that built up affinity of playing for the club for a number of years. They know what it's like playing for this club when crowds are present, they know what it means to club and supporters to win the biggest trophies. They have that shared experience that they may be less willing to give up on. Out of the established stars in our squad, Thiago is probably the main example who doesn't;t necessarily have that same relationship with the club, as of yet.

Equally Thiago may have joined us for that experience of playing for Liverpool in front of packed grounds. He may still be yearning for that despite the likely lack of CL football.

I've framed the Q around Thiago since he's a 30 year old high profile player but it will be interesting to see if any of our players want to leave this summer given the lack of CL football.

[tubby]

Nah I think he'll want to stick with us.  Doesn't strike me as the type of guy to bail when he's no in the CL after one horror show of a season.

[killer-heels]

Genuine question, do you think Thiago will be happy not playing CL football next season?

Whilst I don't expect any player to be happy about no CL football, for the majority of players that have that built up affinity of playing for the club for a number of years. They know what it's like playing for this club when crowds are present, they know what it means to club and supporters to win the biggest trophies. They have that shared experience that they may be less willing to give up on. Out of the established stars in our squad, Thiago is probably the main example who doesn't;t necessarily have that same relationship with the club, as of yet.

Equally Thiago may have joined us for that experience of playing for Liverpool in front of packed grounds. He may still be yearning for that despite the likely lack of CL football.

I've framed the Q around Thiago since he's a 30 year old high profile player but it will be interesting to see if any of our players want to leave this summer given the lack of CL football.

I very much doubt it but we could very well have Alisson, Van Dijk, Trent, Salah and Fabinho playing in the third tier of European football when they are some of the best players in their positions. I’m sure that’s not going to go down to well with them.

[Drinks Sangria]

Yeah I think he'll want a hand in our 'revival.' We're not talking a player here who seems to want to chase money or just rack up trophies - this lad has won multiple La Ligas, Bundesligas, Champions Leagues etc, he's essentially achieved all you can in club football so what's the motivation to leave when he can be part of the evolution of our project.

[RainbowFlick]

I think we need to sign a more creative 10 to link with the creativity of Thiago who's somewhere between a 6 and an 8.

He's never really been the guy to make the assist, but rather create the opportunity for someone else to make the assist. I think having Gini who's not adventurous with his passing next to him doesn't really help. But in theory, we'll have VVD -> Fabinho -> Thiago -> Henderson who are all good passers of the ball on a pitch. Some further creativity and goalscoring in the Coutinho mould would do us well.

[Jookie]

I think we need to sign a more creative 10 to link with the creativity of Thiago who's somewhere between a 6 and an 8.

He's never really been the guy to make the assist, but rather create the opportunity for someone else to make the assist. I think having Gini who's not adventurous with his passing next to him doesn't really help. But in theory, we'll have VVD -> Fabinho -> Thiago -> Henderson who are all good passers of the ball on a pitch. Some further creativity and goalscoring in the Coutinho mould would do us well.

Do you want to change the formation to incorporate a No.10? 4-2-3-1 maybe? or 4-4-2 with a diamond?

Where does it leave Firmino, who is in essence our No.10 currently? If it's on the bench can we carry a squad player earning upwards of 10M a season given the financial situation.

I don't necessarily disagree with the premise but it would require some consideration tactically and how it impacts current players.

[Dim Glas]

Genuine question, do you think Thiago will be happy not playing CL football next season?

Whilst I don't expect any player to be happy about no CL football, for the majority of players that have that built up affinity of playing for the club for a number of years. They know what it's like playing for this club when crowds are present, they know what it means to club and supporters to win the biggest trophies. They have that shared experience that they may be less willing to give up on. Out of the established stars in our squad, Thiago is probably the main example who doesn't;t necessarily have that same relationship with the club, as of yet.

Equally Thiago may have joined us for that experience of playing for Liverpool in front of packed grounds. He may still be yearning for that despite the likely lack of CL football.

I've framed the Q around Thiago since he's a 30 year old high profile player but it will be interesting to see if any of our players want to leave this summer given the lack of CL football.

He won’t be happy, but I would hope he has humility around the situation and realise his performances haven’t been anywhere near good enough, therefore he is part of the reason the club didn’t achieve CL football this season - this isn’t just on him of course, and he was also injured for ages!

I would he hope he looks at it as a need to prove himself. He wanted to play in aother league, and so far he’s not shown anywhere near his level. He’s always been a fighter, I’d be stunned if he decided he wanted out, especially as he missed a lot of the season and you'd think/hope he's likely dissapointed with his own performances for the most part.

[Fromola]

Genuine question, do you think Thiago will be happy not playing CL football next season?

I doubt he'll be happy in general at the shitshow he's ended up in. He thought he was signing for the team who could rival the team he left as the best in Europe, not a shambolic mess.

[CalgarianRed]

Genuine question, do you think Thiago will be happy not playing CL football next season?

Whilst I don't expect any player to be happy about no CL football, for the majority of players that have that built up affinity of playing for the club for a number of years. They know what it's like playing for this club when crowds are present, they know what it means to club and supporters to win the biggest trophies. They have that shared experience that they may be less willing to give up on. Out of the established stars in our squad, Thiago is probably the main example who doesn't;t necessarily have that same relationship with the club, as of yet.

Equally Thiago may have joined us for that experience of playing for Liverpool in front of packed grounds. He may still be yearning for that despite the likely lack of CL football.

I've framed the Q around Thiago since he's a 30 year old high profile player but it will be interesting to see if any of our players want to leave this summer given the lack of CL football.

He has played CL since he started his career and has won it last season, so he will be fine with a season without it. Plus like you said, he seems like the player who joined LFC to experience the Anfield atmosphere and win trophies so he will stick for a few seasons and try to win the league and then have a shot at another CL.

If we consistently miss the CL, then he will likely be a part of the problem and club will sell him.

[aw1991]

Surely if Thiago wanted an easy life he would've stayed in Bayern. An absolute disaster of a season would still see them finishing 2nd at worst.

[Ghost Town]

I doubt he'll be happy in general at the shitshow he's ended up in. He thought he was signing for the team who could rival the team he left as the best in Europe, not a shambolic mess.

You're basically putting your own negative, jaundiced, miserable thoughts and words into this mouth. Not everyone thinks like you do. Some people (and I know this is a shock) have perspective.

[harleydanger]

. Don't you think we are missing massively from hardly any goals from midfield?

No, simply because we’re 2nd in the league on xG. Which, while not flawless, is a good indicator our problems don’t lie in creation of chances.

[RainbowFlick]

Do you want to change the formation to incorporate a No.10? 4-2-3-1 maybe? or 4-4-2 with a diamond?

Where does it leave Firmino, who is in essence our No.10 currently? If it's on the bench can we carry a squad player earning upwards of 10M a season given the financial situation.

I don't necessarily disagree with the premise but it would require some consideration tactically and how it impacts current players.

I think part of the issue is we 99% of the time play the exactly same way, with a 4-3-3. It's got predictable and we're expecting all of our creativity from our full backs or maybe something from the front three.

I'd like a 4-2-3-1 with the '10' expected to track back regularly. I wouldn't be against Firmino playing there if his first touch returns.

I actually don't think it's sustainable consistently expecting Robbo and Trent to be playing such intensive games too. A 10 would be useful in trying something new, I think.

[HomesickRed]

Thiago was signed as a luxury to complement that. An icing on the cake signing.

Instead, all of the above has one way or another been decimated this season. He's not the all action midfielder like Gerrard or the powerhouse like Mascherano. He needs good options around him and he hasn't had it (bar maybe the few games he's actually played in a functional midfield).

Even as a 'luxury player' he hasn't hit the spot and probably wouldn't, even without injuries.
Are you saying we needed a player who doesn't score, doesn't assist, doesn't chase down and is the wrong side of thirty?
We're rather overloaded in that department already.

[CraigDS]

Even as a 'luxury player' he hasn't hit the spot and probably wouldn't, even without injuries.

Got the lottery numbers why you're there?

Are you saying we needed a player who doesn't score, doesn't assist, doesn't chase down and is the wrong side of thirty?
We're rather overloaded in that department already.

The guy was a lynch pin in a pressing Bayern side. Without injuries all over the pitch, including to himself, there is nothing to suggest he couldn't have done it here too.

[Dave McCoy]

Got the lottery numbers why you're there?

The guy was a lynch pin in a pressing Bayern side. Without injuries all over the pitch, including to himself, there is nothing to suggest he couldn't have done it here too.

He also only ever played more than 2000 minutes twice in seven years so I wouldn't call him a lynch pin as they did just fine without him for long stretches.

With that said I've said in this thread and elsewhere that Thiago has been good but I just don't think he was ever what was needed and we'll be regretting his signing come 2023, hopefully not sooner.

Anybody pining their hope on X, Y and Z circumstances happening to see the "true" Thiago are just fooling themselves.

[redghana]

No, simply because we’re 2nd in the league on xG. Which, while not flawless, is a good indicator our problems don’t lie in creation of chances.

to be honest this means next to nothing though, anyone watching liverpool play can see theres a MASSIVE problem with regards to creating chances. We create next to no clear cut chances at all.

That xG score is probably the multiple aimless crosses we play into the box via taa/robbo to our small front 3 which are comfortably headed away by the opposition.

Using fullbacks to create is understandable, but when thats ALL youre capable of doing in order to create a CLEAR cut chance then youre in dog doo doo.

The midfield frantically passes round and round in circles looking busy then either run forward 15m, panic and then pass backwards the way they came or panic and pass sideways. The minute the opposition are set and prepared - which is virtually every team against us now - Liverpools midfield have no idea what do to do whatsoever.

When was the last time we sliced a team open through the middle for a run on goal for our strikers? it just doesnt happen anymore and as such our play has become totally predictable.


Every team in the league knows that liverpool cant create down that massive patch of pitch in the middle so the opposition just pack the box knowing weve got no creativity and wait to clear away the inevitable taa/robbo crosses - easy.

Fabhino is probably our most creative CM, that says it all really.

Our system is broken, it doesnt work anymore,after 4 years+ of using it...its taken time but everyones cracked it...its been like this since the last 3rd of last season, slowly, its taken some time to get there but weve been figured out by virtually everyone. This "only attack by going sideways to the fbs to cross" - it doesnt work anymore. Klopp NEEDS to adapt or its over - this is football you adapt or you sink.

The front 3 were only ever going to be able to do all the attacking for so long before the rest of the league sussed it out to be honest and after the last few years of playing this 1 dimensional style now here we are.

We can try buying new attackers but why limit ourselves by being a team that the opposition know before they step on the pitch where the chances will come from? Why not make us more unpredictable by adding an alternate means of attack thus improving our chances of scoring and making it harder for the opposition?

[deFacto please, you bastards]

to be honest this means next to nothing though, anyone watching liverpool play can see theres a MASSIVE problem with regards to creating chances. We create next to no clear cut chances at all.

There were tons of clear cut chances in the last two matches that we failed to capitalize on. There have been plenty of other games like this. There was a period where we couldn't create anything in a stretch of however many games, but there have been more than enough games where we weren't clinical.

That xG score is probably the multiple aimless crosses we play into the box via taa/robbo to our small front 3 which are comfortably headed away by the opposition.

It's not, but continue.

[Dave McCoy]

to be honest this means next to nothing though, anyone watching liverpool play can see theres a MASSIVE problem with regards to creating chances. We create next to no clear cut chances at all.

That xG score is probably the multiple aimless crosses we play into the box via taa/robbo to our small front 3 which are comfortably headed away by the opposition.

Using fullbacks to create is understandable, but when thats ALL youre capable of doing in order to create a CLEAR cut chance then youre in dog doo doo.

The midfield frantically passes round and round in circles looking busy then either run forward 15m, panic and then pass backwards the way they came or panic and pass sideways.

The minute the opposition are set and prepared - which is virtually every team against us now - Liverpools midfield have no idea what do to do whatsoever.


When was the last time we sliced a team open through the middle for a run on goal for our strikers? it just doesnt happen anymore and as such our play has become totally predictable.

Every team in the league knows that liverpool cant create down that massive patch of pitch in the middle so the opposition just pack the box knowing weve got no creativity and wait to clear away the inevitable taa/robbo crosses - easy.

Fabhino is probably our most creative CM, that says it all really.

Our system is broken, it doesnt work anymore,after 4 years+ of using it...its taken time but everyones cracked it...its been like this since the last 3rd of last season, slowly, its taken some time to get there but weve been figured out by virtually everyone. This "only attack by going sideways to the fbs to cross" - it doesnt work anymore. Klopp NEEDS to adapt or its over - this is football you adapt or you sink.

The front 3 were only ever going to be able to do all the attacking for so long before the rest of the league sussed it out to be honest and after the last few years of tplaying this 1 dimensional style now here we are.

We can try buying new attackers but why limit ourselves by being a team that teams know before they step on the pitch where the chances will come from? Why not make us more unpredictable by adding an alternate means of attack thus improving our chances of scoring and making it harder for the opposition?

[redghana]

you actually looked where we are in the table and seen the drop off? were in a battle to even finish 6th/7th/8th

so you think our current midfield options are adequate to challenge city to mount a serious title challenge next season?, bar fabhino , henderson? ( who will get injuries at some stage during the season  )

keita
chamberlain
milner - another year older
jones
gini - if he stays
thiago - yet another year older

 

these guys?......really.....?.. we get goals from like TWO players in the entire squad if that and mane when hes actually in form...or should the attackers be the only ones allowed to contribute with goals?

prob one of those guys who think we were just unlucky not to win the title this season because of an "injury to van dijk"..


smh