Topic: E3 2018

[BER]

What are the odds Cyberpunk isn't released until the next-gen?

[Upinsmoke]

What are the odds Cyberpunk isn't released until the next-gen?

Anything without a firm release date has the potential to be on next gen.

[Scottymuser]

Three interesting press conferences so far.  My thoughts:

1)  EA - same crap as always, not interested in anything they ever publish, or show at conferences, so meh - 3/10

2)  MS - best MS press conference in ages, but that is not exactly saying much.  Far too much focus on the division 2 (meh), the three new Gears games (double meh), Forza Horizon 4 (ooh look, pretty weather in my driving game I couldn't care less about), some interesting trailers for multi platform games not out for years (Cyberpunk 2077, ), a bunch more I have not much interest in.  Tales of Vesperia being remastered - ok, but would prefer a new Tales game (or in fact other JRPG series).  Kingdom Hearts 3 now coming out on Xbox as well - more of a surprise, but never played any of the originals so less interesting for me.  New Halo game being teased (but again, its Halo, so couldn't care less).  New studios being bought being ok, so hopefully that's a good surprise.  Not enough game play or actually new IPs that MS have console exclusivity for.  Far too many games being "console launch exclusive" or "exclusive but also on PC so we don't know what word means).  7/10

3)  Bethesda  -  new Fallout game being always online MP, bad.  New TES being teased, but without even a name (unlike Skyrim, which they announced ~12 months before the full release, but at that time it was a proper announcement, not a 20 secs teaser) may not even be out next year.  Also given the popularity of Skyrim,  it will probably try and ape some of the more mediocre elements of that game, rather then dig back to Morrowind to try and re-invent the series.  New Doom game looks like more Doom.  5/10

Looking forward to Ubisoft's tonight, as even though as a publisher, their Customer practices leave a lot to be desired, they still make and publish the best games out of anyone in the big 3 (EA, Activision).  Sony too - last year's conference was great as it showed off so many new IPs, all of which were due to be released sometime 2018,/9 so hopefully will see more details about Death Stranding, Ghost of Tsushima, Spiderman, TLOU2, etc.  As well as hopefully some new games from the likes of Guerilla, Sony Japan, Media Molecule, etc

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Three interesting press conferences so far.  My thoughts:

1)  EA - same crap as always, not interested in anything they ever publish, or show at conferences, so meh - 3/10

2)  MS - best MS press conference in ages, but that is not exactly saying much.  Far too much focus on the division 2 (meh), the three new Gears games (double meh), Forza Horizon 4 (ooh look, pretty weather in my driving game I couldn't care less about), some interesting trailers for multi platform games not out for years (Cyberpunk 2077, ), a bunch more I have not much interest in.  Tales of Vesperia being remastered - ok, but would prefer a new Tales game (or in fact other JRPG series).  Kingdom Hearts 3 now coming out on Xbox as well - more of a surprise, but never played any of the originals so less interesting for me.  New Halo game being teased (but again, its Halo, so couldn't care less).  New studios being bought being ok, so hopefully that's a good surprise.  Not enough game play or actually new IPs that MS have console exclusivity for.  Far too many games being "console launch exclusive" or "exclusive but also on PC so we don't know what word means).  7/10

3)  Bethesda  -  new Fallout game being always online MP, bad.  New TES being teased, but without even a name (unlike Skyrim, which they announced ~12 months before the full release, but at that time it was a proper announcement, not a 20 secs teaser) may not even be out next year.  Also given the popularity of Skyrim,  it will probably try and ape some of the more mediocre elements of that game, rather then dig back to Morrowind to try and re-invent the series.New Doom game looks like more Doom.  5/10

Looking forward to Ubisoft's tonight, as even though as a publisher, their Customer practices leave a lot to be desired, they still make and publish the best games out of anyone in the big 3 (EA, Activision).  Sony too - last year's conference was great as it showed off so many new IPs, all of which were due to be released sometime 2018,/9 so hopefully will see more details about Death Stranding, Ghost of Tsushima, Spiderman, TLOU2, etc.  As well as hopefully some new games from the likes of Guerilla, Sony Japan, Media Molecule, etc

You don't need to "reinvent" The Elder Scrolls, it is what it is, a huge open world adventure game with dungeon crawling, why would you change it?

[Scottymuser]

You don't need to "reinvent" The Elder Scrolls, it is what it is, a huge open world adventure game with dungeon crawling, why would you change it?

What I meant is that Skyrim was a partial re-invention itself, and not as good as Oblivion, which itself was not as good as Morrowind.  I would personally like them to return to that sort of game, instead of making another Skyrim style, more open world.  That's what I meant.  As Skyrim for me, on it's own, was a pretty decent 7/10 game, which as I played it on PC and modded it a lot, became an excellent 9/10 - I just want another TES game which I don't have to mod to death to find playable.  The main story was *terrible* as well in Skyrim, which for me is a main pull in a RPG.

[Kashinoda]

What are the odds Cyberpunk isn't released until the next-gen?

Witcher 3 took forever to come out, CD Project Red are a mess behind the scenes to be honest. Doesn't seem to affect their output mind you.

[Ultimate Bromance]

Just caught up on the Digital Devolver conference, wonderfully bonkers. Can't wait for next year

[Macphisto80]

You don't need to "reinvent" The Elder Scrolls, it is what it is, a huge open world adventure game with dungeon crawling, why would you change it?

Exactly. ES is the type of game to benefit with each incremental advancement in tech, be it engine, or hardware. It's about exploring the world. Doesn't need changing.

Thought MS conference was more of the same. Not a single one of those games really jumped out. I will say that Halo has the potential to be something brilliant, if they are taking it in a direction I hope they are that is. The gameplay in Bungie's Halo was always top notch. If 343 can manage to get that back and build on it, and expand the openness of the original's design, then it could be great. I think MS fucked up massively by not showing any kind of gameplay of it, but then again, that in itself might suggest the game is a few years away from being finished.

In contrast, I liked Bethesda's shoot-from-the-hip conference. It's far more enjoyable just listening to someone openly speak instead of listening to some pre-prepared bollocks that sounds cheesy and condescending all in one go, like EA's show and some girl blabbering about how we all turn into monsters when we're alone. Yeah, sure. Rage 2 looks like a fun game. Still not sold on this reboot of Doom at all, but that teaser looked interesting, more so than the first game. Those imps and Cacodemons now look at least more faithful to their original counterparts. Fallout (can't remember the number) looks like good craic too. Yeah, Bethesda done alright.

Looking forward to Sony's. Hope there's less PR waffle and they just get to the point.

[Scottymuser]

Just caught up on the Digital Devolver conference, wonderfully bonkers. Can't wait for next year

They always put on awesomely bonkers press conferences, am going to check them out tonight after the Ubi one.

[Upinsmoke]

Don't expect much from Sony to be honest. They will be showing Spider-man as that is there next big exclusive release. You've then got Ghost Of Tsushima which is a brand new ip. Then Death Stranding which just looks utterly mad (and sounds even madder from what I've heard) it's the biggest new IP of this generation so it's a huge coup and then you've got the sequel to one of the best games of last generation.

You'll have your COD segment I presume as they have marketing, rumours of REmake 2, but aside from that not much I don't reckon.

[gazzalfc]

So kingdom hearts 3 has been pushed to Jan 2019.

A very short Square conference. I expect most of theirs come during the Sony conference

[Macphisto80]

Don't expect much from Sony to be honest. They will be showing Spider-man as that is there next big exclusive release. You've then got Ghost Of Tsushima which is a brand new ip. Then Death Stranding which just looks utterly mad (and sounds even madder from what I've heard) it's the biggest new IP of this generation so it's a huge coup and then you've got the sequel to one of the best games of last generation.

You'll have your COD segment I presume as they have marketing, rumours of REmake 2, but aside from that not much I don't reckon.

If they show RE2 remake and its good, then its job done. For me personally, it'll beat anything else on show. I also hope they dedicate a large portion of their show to PSVR.

[OsirisMVZ]

Super underwhelming from Square Enix. To think they are still working on multiple solo-player Final Fantasy games, an Avengers game etc and they gave that.

[Macphisto80]

What have they done to Lara Croft?

Fucking hell.

[iSmiff]

so Ubisoft have absolutely nothing to interest me, so far

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Ubisoft has been very disappointing so far

[Macphisto80]

Ubishite.

[OsirisMVZ]

I thought Ubi were quite decent! They finally learnt that women can do stuff too and we finally have a playable female character in a main AC game (the whole way through, not the half and half Syndicate stuff).
I was originally not sold on Odyssey till they showed that off.

[has gone odd]

yeah, ubisoft made a good presentation so was initially stoked at some of their games. division 2 was a small disappointment though, expected an overhaul and perhaps even a new game engine but nope, more of the same plus "raids". fuckin el, I cant even get 3 mates online at the same time let alone 8. fuck pickups, had my lifetimes supply of those!

so in conclusion, tranceference appealed to me probably the most, starlink might be oki to.

sony had the usual AAA mindblowers, though nothing really new or unexpected. death stranding looks a lot like some mountain hill climbing simulator. still, will reserve judgement until release. Last of Us 2 though looks incredible, if nothing massively new, as per division 2.   

only other one I caught was Nintendo and this was nowhere near as amazing as the 2017 presentation, with very little to surprise. still, if your a smash bros fan there is a lot to look forward to. no mention of Metroid which was shite. fortnite was the big call and they are not even porting the save the world pve across .. just the cashcow, yawn.

cyberpunk 2077 .. cant wait, will have to for an indefinite time though. sadly the latest tease doesn't look anywhere near as dark and gloomy as the initial trailer. hope they darken this up as the sunny clean vibe is not what I think of when I hear cyberpunk. they did spill it would be single player only though, was hoping for a multiplayer aspect but hey ho.

despite my grumbles, 2019 should be a decent year for games, as it is 2018 has been completely devoid  of anything (not tried god of war though yet) and im sick of hearing about fortnite.

[Schmidt]

cyberpunk 2077 .. cant wait, will have to for an indefinite time though. sadly the latest tease doesn't look anywhere near as dark and gloomy as the initial trailer. hope they darken this up as the sunny clean vibe is not what I think of when I hear cyberpunk. they did spill it would be single player only though, was hoping for a multiplayer aspect but hey ho.

This article has some Cyberpunk 2077 gameplay info.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-06-13-we-watched-50-minutes-of-uncut-cyberpunk-2077-gameplay-and-interviewed-cd-projekt-about-it

The one question I have now is whether the combat will allow you to take down anyone at any point in your progression like a normal shooter, or if high level enemies will basically be impossible at the lower levels like Skyrim. I've never been a big fan of the latter, I think your individual skill should be the biggest factor in FPS games, it's the reason I never really had any interest in The Division or Destiny.

[Scottymuser]

This article has some Cyberpunk 2077 gameplay info.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-06-13-we-watched-50-minutes-of-uncut-cyberpunk-2077-gameplay-and-interviewed-cd-projekt-about-it

The one question I have now is whether the combat will allow you to take down anyone at any point in your progression like a normal shooter, or if high level enemies will basically be impossible at the lower levels like Skyrim. I've never been a big fan of the latter, I think your individual skill should be the biggest factor in FPS games, it's the reason I never really had any interest in The Division or Destiny.

It depends on whether a game is a FPS or an RPG.  A good example is Fallout 3 - the accuracy of the guns meant trying to play it as a pure FPS was going to be very hard, and encouraged use of the VATS system etc which was much more RPG like.  Frankly, if Cyberpunk 2077 is more of a shooter than an RPG, I would have zero interest in it - but as it's CDPR, I am guessing it it won't be.  Which is a good thing in my books.   Never played Destiny, but a big Borderlands fan, and really like how that system did FPS style shooting mechanics within the stat based levelling approach of an RPG, where levelling your character, and which skills you chose and loot you picked up, were more important then pure aiming at head skill.

[J-Mc-]

Only thing I'm gutted about with Cyberpunk, is you can spend all that time customising your character but you won't get to see them because it's first person.

I'd love it if more games gave us the option of first or third person.

[Chalky Boots]

cyberpunk 2077 .. cant wait, will have to for an indefinite time though. sadly the latest tease doesn't look anywhere near as dark and gloomy as the initial trailer. hope they darken this up as the sunny clean vibe is not what I think of when I hear cyberpunk. they did spill it would be single player only though, was hoping for a multiplayer aspect but hey ho.

Devs said during a QA that the choice to go with a daytime trailer was deliberate, felt that anyone could do a Blade Runner'esque dark backdrop and wanted to show that the game can look good and be cyberpunk during the daytime as well because they'll have a day-night cycle.
Apparently multiplayer may come out after release for the game.

They keep saying it's first person RPG as well, and I believe them, it's just got shooter elements to it. They say tech is going to heavily dictate gameplay and I hope they add something that lets you play 3rd person but only after a particular point and at a stage where you've given the FPP a chance.

I imagine there will be a lot of things within the game where you get to see your character, reflections etc. I think they've thought it all through and they're probably the only developer who genuinely will consider all possibilities before committing to an idea.

[Schmidt]

It depends on whether a game is a FPS or an RPG.  A good example is Fallout 3 - the accuracy of the guns meant trying to play it as a pure FPS was going to be very hard, and encouraged use of the VATS system etc which was much more RPG like.  Frankly, if Cyberpunk 2077 is more of a shooter than an RPG, I would have zero interest in it - but as it's CDPR, I am guessing it it won't be.  Which is a good thing in my books.   Never played Destiny, but a big Borderlands fan, and really like how that system did FPS style shooting mechanics within the stat based levelling approach of an RPG, where levelling your character, and which skills you chose and loot you picked up, were more important then pure aiming at head skill.

It sounds like it'll be a little like Borderlands, lots of numbers popping off things as you shoot them, I didn't see any mention of a locking system so presumably it'll be manual aiming. I've never really liked the VATS stuff to be honest, but then those games are hugely popular so I'm maybe in the minority.

[Chalky Boots]

Same Dev said there will be weapons with homing capabilities as well, I imagine it'll be something the weave in with the upgradeable tech so that you get a VATS style system but it's non-residential and is entirely playstyle dependant.

[Scottymuser]

It sounds like it'll be a little like Borderlands, lots of numbers popping off things as you shoot them, I didn't see any mention of a locking system so presumably it'll be manual aiming. I've never really liked the VATS stuff to be honest, but then those games are hugely popular so I'm maybe in the minority.

That's cool - but doesn't go against with what I was trying to say - I was trying to use Borderlands was an example of how one could do FPS style game play, but in an RPG setting, and be able to use both personal skill in the aiming etc. but also use weapon and character stats to determine how much damage would be done from each trigger pull.  The VATS system was another example of how you could make it more paper RPG, where the gun's stats are not over looked, but more extreme (as Fallout, at least up until 3, was far more a traditional RPG style game, as opposed to Borderlands FPS with RPG elements added in)

As Cyberpunk 2077 is based on a paper RPG game (Cyberpunk 2020), so personally I hope they try to make it more like a RPG (where stats are more important) then pure gaming skill, but do agree with you that the VATS system is not really the best implementation of it (I would argue that the reason VATS really exists in Fallout 3, is that the actual shooting mechanics were poorly developer, and the VATS system is there to compensate).  Either way, it is definitely something I am looking forward to, especially with CDPR record of making big, intricate RPGs.

[Schmidt]

That's cool - but doesn't go against with what I was trying to say - I was trying to use Borderlands was an example of how one could do FPS style game play, but in an RPG setting, and be able to use both personal skill in the aiming etc. but also use weapon and character stats to determine how much damage would be done from each trigger pull.  The VATS system was another example of how you could make it more paper RPG, where the gun's stats are not over looked, but more extreme (as Fallout, at least up until 3, was far more a traditional RPG style game, as opposed to Borderlands FPS with RPG elements added in)

As Cyberpunk 2077 is based on a paper RPG game (Cyberpunk 2020), so personally I hope they try to make it more like a RPG (where stats are more important) then pure gaming skill, but do agree with you that the VATS system is not really the best implementation of it (I would argue that the reason VATS really exists in Fallout 3, is that the actual shooting mechanics were poorly developer, and the VATS system is there to compensate).  Either way, it is definitely something I am looking forward to, especially with CDPR record of making big, intricate RPGs.

Maybe the slow-mo they're supposedly adding will be their equivalent of VATS, something to make the speed and skill of the player less important with more of a focus on levelling up skills and weapons and such.

[Scottymuser]

Witcher 3 took forever to come out, CD Project Red are a mess behind the scenes to be honest. Doesn't seem to affect their output mind you.

How did the Witcher 3 take forever to come out, compared to other massive open world games - it took 4 years between W2 and W3, and had a totally new engine built internally for it, let alone being massively bigger than the previous games.  That's about the same time as Skyrim took (despite Skyrim being much weaker, and made by a much bigger company - and it being 7 years since that game and we have only just been told that it is in development, let alone having any title or release date), let alone any Rockstar game (in the last 10 years, they have made 1 GTA game, LA Noire, RDR and nothing else, despite again, being massive in size).  3-4 years should be the standard when expecting more medium sized companies to release massive games, and if Cyberpunk 2077 comes out next year, then it would be 4 years for that too. 

[Scottymuser]

Maybe the slow-mo they're supposedly adding will be their equivalent of VATS, something to make the speed and skill of the player less important with more of a focus on levelling up skills and weapons and such.

That sounds awesome! Especially if it's tied to a character active skill, much like the borderlands special skills each character had, with cool down so you having to use it more tactically.  I just hope there is more than "just" gun play - how about some sneaky knife work, or hand to hand melee, etc.

[Darren G]

Devs said during a QA that the choice to go with a daytime trailer was deliberate, felt that anyone could do a Blade Runner'esque dark backdrop and wanted to show that the game can look good and be cyberpunk during the daytime as well because they'll have a day-night cycle.
Apparently multiplayer may come out after release for the game.

They keep saying it's first person RPG as well, and I believe them, it's just got shooter elements to it. They say tech is going to heavily dictate gameplay and I hope they add something that lets you play 3rd person but only after a particular point and at a stage where you've given the FPP a chance.

I imagine there will be a lot of things within the game where you get to see your character, reflections etc. I think they've thought it all through and they're probably the only developer who genuinely will consider all possibilities before committing to an idea.

They are commuted to first person though. They've categorically stated that the third person aspect will only be present for cut scenes and driving. It's gonna be special though. The press got to play a 50 minute demo and were blown away. The Digital Foundry guy said that he couldn't believe it was current gen and they (DF) are hardly ever that effusive. Can't wait!

[Skeeve]

3)  Bethesda  -  new Fallout game being always online MP, bad.  New TES being teased, but without even a name (unlike Skyrim, which they announced ~12 months before the full release, but at that time it was a proper announcement, not a 20 secs teaser) may not even be out next year.  Also given the popularity of Skyrim,  it will probably try and ape some of the more mediocre elements of that game, rather then dig back to Morrowind to try and re-invent the series.  New Doom game looks like more Doom.  5/10

The next TES won't be out for years, they said their new IP was coming first and that one was listed as being for nextgens rather than current consoles.

[Kashinoda]

How did the Witcher 3 take forever to come out, compared to other massive open world games - it took 4 years between W2 and W3, and had a totally new engine built internally for it, let alone being massively bigger than the previous games.  That's about the same time as Skyrim took (despite Skyrim being much weaker, and made by a much bigger company - and it being 7 years since that game and we have only just been told that it is in development, let alone having any title or release date), let alone any Rockstar game (in the last 10 years, they have made 1 GTA game, LA Noire, RDR and nothing else, despite again, being massive in size).  3-4 years should be the standard when expecting more medium sized companies to release massive games, and if Cyberpunk 2077 comes out next year, then it would be 4 years for that too. 

They built a new engine for it, but not before they spent a ton of time developing it with the old engine trying to do things it couldn't. They then rushed the new engine and left out lots of features they wanted to include.

They pushed back the release date 3 times, massively downgraded the graphics compared to their 2014 demo Ubisoft style and hemorrhaged most of their staff in the process.

Witcher 3 is my favourite open world game ever but Project Red aren't without their issues. They announced Cyberpunk in 2012 with a trailer in January 2013 - yet seemingly didn't start development to around 2016.

[Darren G]

They built a new engine for it, but not before they spent a ton of time developing it with the old engine trying to do things it couldn't. They then rushed the new engine and left out lots of features they wanted to include.

They pushed back the release date 3 times, massively downgraded the graphics compared to their 2014 demo Ubisoft style and hemorrhaged most of their staff in the process.

Witcher 3 is my favourite open world game ever but Project Red aren't without their issues. They announced Cyberpunk in 2012 with a trailer in January 2013 - yet seemingly didn't start development to around 2016.

 Leaving aside that I am somewhat dubious about some of those claims, the part of your original comment that Scottymuser actually addressed was your claim that "Witcher 3 took forever to come out".  The development cycle was - as has already been pointed out to you - less than 4 years.  As such, it didn't "take forever" at all.  Downgraded graphics, left out features and the like have nothing to do with a conversation about the length of the development cycle and Witcher 3's four years was not long for a game of that magnitude by any stretch of the imagination.   

[Kashinoda]

Leaving aside that I am somewhat dubious about some of those claims, the part of your original comment that Scottymuser actually addressed was your claim that "Witcher 3 took forever to come out".  The development cycle was - as has already been pointed out to you - less than 4 years.  As such, it didn't "take forever" at all.  Downgraded graphics, left out features and the like have nothing to do with a conversation about the length of the development cycle and Witcher 3's four years was not long for a game of that magnitude by any stretch of the imagination.   

I believe I said the release date got pushed back 3 times, meaning the game literally came out a year later than scheduled and advertised.

My other points just detail the reasons to why this happened, they completely developed and changed their engine very late in the development cycle.

CDPR had a team of 250 for the Witcher 3 - Bethesda had a team of around 100 for Fallout 3 and Skyrim, the team finished developing Fallout 3 in 2008 and went into production on Skyrim which was released 3 years later in 2011.

4 years isn't absurdly long for a game like the Witcher 3, but it felt long at the time and when they released an incredible amount of gameplay footage prior to the delays which made it seem longer.

[Darren G]

I believe I said the release date got pushed back 3 times, meaning the game literally came out a year later than scheduled and advertised.

My other points just detail the reasons to why this happened, they completely developed and changed their engine very late in the development cycle.

CDPR had a team of 250 for the Witcher 3 - Bethesda had a team of around 100 for Fallout 3 and Skyrim, the team finished developing Fallout 3 in 2008 and went into production on Skyrim which was released 3 years later in 2011.

4 years isn't absurdly long for a game like the Witcher 3, but it felt long at the time and when they released an incredible amount of gameplay footage prior to the delays which made it seem longer.

 I'm not going to go down another of these rabbit holes with you.  This is your quote: "Witcher 3 took forever to come out, CD Project Red are a mess behind the scenes to be honest. Doesn't seem to affect their output mind you."    It was that post which Scotty responded to.  You said that it took forever to come out.  It didn't .  The rest of your post concerning the size of Skyrim's development team,  how much footage CDPR released, blah, blah, blah... is spectacularly irrelevant.  The bottom line is that it was a AAA title which took roughly 3.5 years to develop, which is not a long time.

[Kashinoda]

I'm not going to go down another of these rabbit holes with you.  This is your quote: "Witcher 3 took forever to come out, CD Project Red are a mess behind the scenes to be honest. Doesn't seem to affect their output mind you."    It was that post which Scotty responded to.  You said that it took forever to come out.  It didn't .  The rest of your post concerning the size of Skyrim's development team,  how much footage CDPR released, blah, blah, blah... is spectacularly irrelevant.  The bottom line is that it was a AAA title which took roughly 3.5 years to develop, which is not a long time.

If you don't want to go down these rabbit holes why even bother? I'm having a discussion (of sorts) with Scotty and you chime in to pick apart every word I say. It's like I'm browsing NeoGAF or some shite - who's arsed.

Fucking do one lad, but don't take forever 

[Darren G]

If you don't want to go down these rabbit holes why even bother? I'm having a discussion (of sorts) with Scotty and you chime in to pick apart every word I say. It's like I'm browsing NeoGAF or some shite - who's arsed.

Fucking do one lad, but don't take forever 

 It's an open forum.  You want a private conversation, go elsewhere.  It's not about picking apart everything you say, but rather the complete bollocks that you come out with rather than direcly addressing a point.  If you're going to state bullshit as fact then you're likely to get called out on that.  "Do one lad"? Where are you from again?   

[Kashinoda]

It's an open forum.  You want a private conversation, go elsewhere.  It's not about picking apart everything you say, but rather the complete bollocks that you come out with rather than direcly addressing a point.  If you're going to state bullshit as fact then you're likely to get called out on that.  "Do one lad"? Where are you from again?   

Calling me on my bullshit, come on. I state the game took forever to come out and clearly stated that they kept pushing the release date back.

I bring up the engine because Scotty pointed to it as a positive thing when really it was a mess which caused the game to be severely delayed. I brought up Skyrim because again Scotty used it as some sort of benchmark despite them actually having a smaller team. Bethesda announced their game at the end of 2010 and released it on time 11-11-2011

I'm not the one who brought up development time, you both did.

Again

Witcher 3 coming 2014!
Witcher 3 coming Q3 2014!
Witcher 3 coming Feb 2015!
Witcher 3 actually releasing May 2015!

That is taking forever to come out, I mean if something is fucking coming in 2014 then doesn't bloody arrive until mid 2015 it's failed in the basic premise of it's definition.

Also dissecting my use of vocabulary in the same paragraph you declared not to be picking apart everything I say is a bit last, fam.

[Darren G]

Calling me on my bullshit, come on. I state the game took forever to come out and clearly stated that they kept pushing the release date back.

I bring up the engine because Scotty pointed to it as a positive thing when really it was a mess which caused the game to be severely delayed. I brought up Skyrim because again Scotty used it as some sort of benchmark despite them actually having a smaller team. Bethesda announced their game at the end of 2010 and released it on time 11-11-2011

I'm not the one who brought up development time, you both did.

Again

Witcher 3 coming 2014!
Witcher 3 coming Q3 2014!
Witcher 3 coming Feb 2015!
Witcher 3 actually releasing May 2015!

That is taking forever to come out, I mean if something is fucking coming in 2014 then doesn't bloody arrive until mid 2015 it's failed in the basic premise of it's definition.

Also dissecting my use of vocabulary in the same paragraph you declared not to be picking apart everything I say is a bit last, fam.

 1.  "They pushed back the release date 3 times, massively downgraded the graphics compared to their 2014 demo Ubisoft style and hemorrhaged most of their staff in the process."

 They went from an initial team of 50 people working on the TW3 to 250 at completion.  They did not "hemorrhage most of their staff in the process", so yes, that's bullshit.  They had a few people leave (what business doesn't) and then post negative reviews of the work environment, to which they (CDPR) publicly responded. 

 2.  "My other points just detail the reasons to why this happened, they completely developed and changed their engine very late in the development cycle.   They then rushed the new engine and left out lots of features they wanted to include."   [/b]

In 2012 CDPR were interviewed and spoke about TW3 using Red Engine 3, which had already been created at that point, so no, they didn't change their engine "very late in the development cycle"....so that's bullshit too. 



3. "I bring up the engine because Scotty pointed to it as a positive thing when really it was a mess which caused the game to be severely delayed."

KISINSKI ON THE DELAYS: "There's a lot of small errors though, because the game is huge," Kicinski explained. "It's the only reason behind the delay. We didn't assume it will be this big. Only after putting all the pieces together it turned out it's bigger than the two first put together."

 The delays were not due to a change in engine or the engine being a mess.


KISINSKI ON THE CUT FEATURES: "When we started out, we had this massive backlog of features that we wanted to create, but you have to do an ROI analysis of your features," he replied. "And that's what we did. We're constantly going through the process to figure out which features are the most important, but take less time potentially. Those are the things we do first. Things that are really cool, but maybe they don't add as much value to the game? We have to cut them out. We have to make choices."

 Again, this was said very early in the development cycle, so the cut features were not a result of CDPR rushing the engine or running out of time.


  So yeah, 'calling you out on your bullshit' seems pretty apt.

 

 

[Scottymuser]

Calling me on my bullshit, come on. I state the game took forever to come out and clearly stated that they kept pushing the release date back.

I bring up the engine because Scotty pointed to it as a positive thing when really it was a mess which caused the game to be severely delayed. I brought up Skyrim because again Scotty used it as some sort of benchmark despite them actually having a smaller team. Bethesda announced their game at the end of 2010 and released it on time 11-11-2011

I'm not the one who brought up development time, you both did.

Again

Witcher 3 coming 2014!
Witcher 3 coming Q3 2014!
Witcher 3 coming Feb 2015!
Witcher 3 actually releasing May 2015!

That is taking forever to come out, I mean if something is fucking coming in 2014 then doesn't bloody arrive until mid 2015 it's failed in the basic premise of it's definition.

Also dissecting my use of vocabulary in the same paragraph you declared not to be picking apart everything I say is a bit last, fam.

No, it's not taking "ages" to come out - 4 years is not a lot, nor is ~8 months of delays (from Q3 2014 to March 2015 is NOT severely delayed; yes it is delayed, but that is not severely) - also I brought up Skyrim as an example of a smaller, much inferior game which took about the same time to develop, from one of the most experienced development studios (in terms of big RPGs) there is, compared to a team who had previously made a grand total of 2 games, the larger of which was *30* times smaller than TW3.  also, March is not, in any single use of the definition of the word, "mid way" through the year - it is less than 25% of the time, and importantly, given that more publishers are on a April -> March financial year, actually IN the 2014 financial year. 

Also, don't forget, that the PS4 and Xbox One were both announced a month or two after the witcher 3 - now whilst the team would have had some for of advanced notification of this, I doubt they had the machines as early as 1.5 years before the announcement, and that probably didn't help (something Skyrim didn't have, as the developers by that time had made 3/4 games already and were comfortable working on the consoles of the time)

If ~8 months is "severely" delayed, is 5-6 months "massively" (like GTA5 was, when it was delayed from May/April to September), let alone the likes of Crackdown 3 (was meant to come out 2016, now coming 2019), Zelda: Breath of the Wild (announced to release in 2015, released in 2017), Red Dead Redemption 2 (announced to release summer 2017, pushed back to this October but nobody has actually seen a single second of game play yet as it wasn't ready to come to E3!), The Last Guardian (announced in 2009 to release sometime 2011/12; finally released Dec 2016) - all of which were smaller games, led by bigger and more experienced studios.  Delays are the norm in the video game business - sometimes because a studio chose to announce a game early, and try to claim a date.