Topic: Jürgen Klopp

[Greyfox]

This is not my opinion. I don't think Klopp is either racist or xenophobic, I was just explaining why some people are offended.

Well it appears they either weren't listening to the actual words...or they are sensitive to the accusations they perceive to have been made, that were never uttered.

[lollysportswasher]

and yet you don't question your own authoritarian regime and instead are offended by what klopp didn't say?

I was born in the UK. I have 0 ties to either the UAE or any oil regime, my roots come from North Africa which is unrelated to the middle east.

[Qston]

I'm British Arab and a lot of my friends were offended at Klopp's comments because it plays into the stereotype of Arab=bad= human rights abuser. I think it's also due to the fact that he ignored Chelsea, United even though both of them outspent City and still continuing to do so. They feel like the west gets judged by a different standard compared to Arabs and other ethnic minorities even though the west have also committed bad things.

It was my post you were answering but I am sorry mate, I don`t get how it plays into that narrative ? He was simply referencing state owned clubs with unlimited funds and it being difficult to compete against them. They happen to be Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The same comment would apply if it were any other country that owns a football club. On the wider point, it so happens that those clubs are owned by Arab countries.  I really don`t see that as xenophobic, just factual and that's without getting into any debate about sportwashing and the political and human rights issues in those countries.

I presume he didn`t identify Chelsea and United because their funds aren`t unlimited. I also happen to think City are a better run club but there is no avoiding the fact that they have unlimited funds and use some rather strange accounting and valuation methods to cover up their true expenditure which I am pretty sure would outstrip all clubs of a similar size.

[lionel_messias]

I'm British Arab and a lot of my friends were offended at Klopp's comments because it plays into the stereotype of Arab=bad= human rights abuser. I think it's also due to the fact that he ignored Chelsea, United even though both of them outspent City and still continuing to do so. They feel like the west gets judged by a different standard compared to Arabs and other ethnic minorities even though the west have also committed bad things. 

Hi there. I do think something is very very clear. Klopp only mentioned spending, he did not mention any other factors which may (fairly or unfairly) be ascribed to Arabic nations. None of that was mentioned. From his words, he was talking about no limits on spending. The ownership types for Man City, PSG and Newcastle are state 'actors', country-backed funds, whatever you want to call them. If any of these clubs want to drop £200 million on a single player, they don't need to check their finances because these sums are a drop in the ocean, compared to their wealth.

I have never heard a Xenophobic word come out of Jurgen Klopp's mouth, a man respectful to all nationalities, inside and outside his squad of players. A man delighted to have built his best team (so far) by respecting and developing the African footballers, Sadio Mané and Mo Salah.

[Andy82lfc]

I'm British Arab and a lot of my friends were offended at Klopp's comments because it plays into the stereotype of Arab=bad= human rights abuser. I think it's also due to the fact that he ignored Chelsea, United even though both of them outspent City and still continuing to do so. They feel like the west gets judged by a different standard compared to Arabs and other ethnic minorities even though the west have also committed bad things.

He never mentioned United or Chelsea as he was talking about State owned clubs. So this clearly proves the point that he was not listened to by your friends but instead jumped to the conclusion that the Abu Dhabi group gave them.

Still, nice to see how far those city comments have reached and affected Klopp's character.

[El Lobo]

With the greatest respect, I think you've got to have a look at lolowalshs previous posts before responding seriously to what has been posted there.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I'm British Arab and a lot of my friends were offended at Klopp's comments because it plays into the stereotype of Arab=bad= human rights abuser. I think it's also due to the fact that he ignored Chelsea, United even though both of them outspent City and still continuing to do so. They feel like the west gets judged by a different standard compared to Arabs and other ethnic minorities even though the west have also committed bad things.

Sorry, not having that. He was purely talking about the financial disparity, so if they have chosen to extrapolate those comments then they have offended themselves.

It also appears that you/your friends have also been sportswashed by your line about spending. Focusing on high level figures helps City frame their message - Just ook at the Haaland as an example of that.

Sorry, but your mates are offended because they've read something into Klopps comments that were not there. Or maybe they've been told to be offended.

Finally - he was merely answering a question.

[lollysportswasher]

It was my post you were answering but I am sorry mate, I don`t get how it plays into that narrative ? He was simply referencing state owned clubs with unlimited funds and it being difficult to compete against them. They happen to be Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The same comment would apply if it were any other country that owns a football club. On the wider point, it so happens that those clubs are owned by Arab countries.  I really don`t see that as xenophobic, just factual and that's without getting into any debate about sportwashing and the political and human rights issues in those countries.

I presume he didn`t identify Chelsea and United because their funds aren`t unlimited. I also happen to think City are a better run club but there is no avoiding the fact that they have unlimited funds and use some rather strange accounting and valuation methods to cover up their true expenditure which I am pretty sure would outstrip all clubs of a similar size.

He is correct and I agree with him. It's just the political situation in Europe right now is weird after an EU official made the comments about how Europe is a garden and the rest of the world is a jungle which made tensions go high and a lot of people feel like there is an increased xenophobia against Arabs in Europe.

[Qston]

I was explaining why some people I know were offended. I never said Klopp is racist or xenophobic. I think the timing  of the comments were unfortunate because they were some tensions in Europe after that EU official comments who called Europe a garden and the rest of the world a jungle.

How do you conflate recent comments/tension in europe with Klopp talking about state owned clubs with unlimited funds ?

I can see in one your earlier posts you mention Chelsea. I take it you know that Abramovic sold the club ? (besides that he is not a 'state' although I take the point about unlimited funds when he owned them)

[scouse neapolitan]

I just feel so sorry for our Boss who we all know to be a genuinely good bloke. He’s the embodiment of good and hasn’t got an xenophobic bone in his body. To accuse him of xenophobia is cruel , libellous, treacherous and evil. It’s also wrong. Klopp looked really downbeat and knackered  the other day in his press conference that you almost felt that he’d had enough and was thinking to himself, “ do I need all this shite?”   He said himself that he wasn’t proud of the way he’d behaved on the touchline  and he apologised for it. He was also rightly critical of the morons who chucked the coins but to accuse him of xenophobia is a manufactured lie and I hope he hits whoever said it with a defamation case.
I don’t actually mind Guardiola and I reckon that he was just caught up in the emotion and felt wronged by the decisions and his weird “This is Anfield” rant was all theatrical pantomime even if he was insinuating that we always get the big decisions at our place.  The shitehawks in all this are the “senior City sources” who slung the dung and those City fans who were chanting all the usual  stuff the other day. I used to have a lot of time for them.
And that’s not to mention the shit-show up at Newcastle with Eddy “I’m not qualified to speak” Howe and his comments about Klopp and all of his apologists who support that joke of a football club.

[JackWard33]

He’s ended up in the worst spot by responding to and denying the accusation … either don’t comment or double down

Honestly he should lean into it … xenophobia is a general fear of other countries, clearly that doesn’t apply here… it’s a correctly attributed fear of a specific group of countries who run their countries as brutal dictatorships and whose agenda is to buy up a sport to clense their reputations.
It’s not Klopps job to call this out but someone should be - in fact everyone should be

If you were gay or Jewish or a woman or a democrat and you lived in the countries in question you wouldn’t be ‘afraid’ of them you’d be fucking petrified

Oh and it’s fucking insane that a decent section of the footballing press are bending over backwards to defend these owners - football is lost, utterly morally bankrupt

[lollysportswasher]

How do you conflate recent comments/tension in europe with Klopp talking about state owned clubs with unlimited funds ?

I can see in one your earlier posts you mention Chelsea. I take it you know that Abramovic sold the club ? (besides that he is not a 'state' although I take the point about unlimited funds when he owned them)

I mentioned to Chelsea because Abramovic got them to where they were because of his unlimited funds and dodgy deals. City selling their clubs wont change the fact they became relevant because of unlimited funds. I also think Newcastle is too early to include.

[lionel_messias]

He is correct and I agree with him. It's just the political situation in Europe right now is weird after an EU official made the comments about how Europe is a garden and the rest of the world is a jungle which made tensions go high and a lot of people feel like there is an increased xenophobia against Arabs in Europe.

I can understand these feelings but I think must be best to try and separate them from a very specific discussion which was put to Klopp. How do clubs fund their spending?

You could even take the geography out it. What Klopp was saying is: how do we compete with a football club that is owned by a state?

The entity that owns Man City is not best pleased to have these questions put their way. We can all imagine why; they have spent more than a £1billion on player transfers and I'm guessing they would not wish to have the true earnings of Haaland Junior publicly examined in 2022.

Some of this of course is a wider football problem but very few seem to want to speak about it?

[So… Howard Philips]

This is not my opinion. I don't think Klopp is either racist or xenophobic, I was just explaining why some people are offended.

Were they offended when he made his comments or after the Manchester City/Abu Dhabi PR machine kicked in?

[JC the Messiah]

I'm British Arab and a lot of my friends were offended at Klopp's comments because it plays into the stereotype of Arab=bad= human rights abuser. I think it's also due to the fact that he ignored Chelsea, United even though both of them outspent City and still continuing to do so. They feel like the west gets judged by a different standard compared to Arabs and other ethnic minorities even though the west have also committed bad things. 

I mentioned to Chelsea because Abramovic got them to where they were because of his unlimited funds and dodgy deals. City selling their clubs wont change the fact they became relevant because of unlimited funds. I also think Newcastle is too early to include.

He didn't mention Chelsea, because they aren't one of the three clubs in world football that are state-funded and have unlimited funds. 

Don't be obtuse, or try to imply that Klopp's comments had racist or xenophobic undertones with your irrelevant and incorrect comments that are obviously made to continue a narrative that is based completely in falsehood, and without any substance.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Were they offended when he made his comments or after the Manchester City/Abu Dhabi PR machine kicked in?

Fucking exactly Howard.
If they were initially offended (no chance) I'd love to hear their suggestion on how he should have answered the question. Maybe the question was loaded with implied xenophobia and that's what initially triggered the offence.
It's madness.

[lionel_messias]

He didn't mention Chelsea, because they aren't one of the three clubs in world football that are state-funded and have unlimited funds. 

Don't be obtuse, or try to imply that Klopp's comments had racist or xenophobic undertones with your irrelevant and incorrect comments that are obviously made to continue a narrative that is based completely in falsehood, and without any substance.

You are being aggressive in tone to this poster by calling him "obtuse" - this is not necessary. And no, his comments are not irrelevant because you disagree with them.

There is a discussion to be had here.

[FlashingBlade]

I'm British Arab and a lot of my friends were offended at Klopp's comments because it plays into the stereotype of Arab=bad= human rights abuser. I think it's also due to the fact that he ignored Chelsea, United even though both of them outspent City and still continuing to do so. They feel like the west gets judged by a different standard compared to Arabs and other ethnic minorities even though the west have also committed bad things. 

you for.real lad, This place and the media is awash with criticism of sport washing states....yet Klopp offends you and your friends!...its a critique of state wealth unbalancing the game in the UK..plus it is a vehicle to present a better image for states that the liberal west question on on a whole range of issues.

City tapped up a couple of journos using a term that they know even without foundation in the current climate attracts more attention and deflectd from the vile chantting of their fans.....you appear to have fell for it hook line as sinker.

He made his comments Friday...City tapped up their journo after Liverpool statement...hmmmm

and as a Liverpool fan how on earth can you not see that?

[plura]

There are two aspects to this issue. First, it is wrong for a nation state of whatever nationality to own a football club as they are not operating as a business with a P&L account. Instead they artificially pump money into the club by way of sponsorship that is not at market value. This is how a club like City asserts that it’s global revenue is greater than ours or Man U’s. Chelsea today and Man U are not owned by states but by companies that run a balance sheet. This is not a racist point. If a club were owned by Germany or Australia the same objection would apply.

Second, the issue of human rights that Klopp did not actually address but could have done. The owners of City, PSG and Newcastle are human rights abusers. That’s a cold hard fact. Had Klopp addressed human rights he could of course have added Chelsea under Abramovic. The current owners of Chelsea and Man U are many things but they are not human rights abusers.

The attempts by City to call this racist are a transparent attempt at diversion and a clear effort to shut down any debate on their funding. I know what racism is as a British Asian and this ain’t it. The true racists are the regimes in Qatar, Saudi and Abu Dhabi that treat Asian workers as sub human vermin. I’d love Klopp to double down and make this point but he is too nice.

I wish Lolowalsh would come back with a reply to this post. And also answer the other question that has been mentioned. Did Klopp say anything about the human rights issues that have happened? No, he’s talking about them being in a financial situation where there are no limits bar being too obvious with the dodgy bookkeeping and artificial sponsorship deals.

Otherwise than that they can do what they like.

I also wish that you took the chance (maybe you did?) to defend our manager to your friends, or at least had an open discussion about the fact that these clubs are owned by nation states. About the fact that they can pretty much spend what they want.

I don’t doubt you’ve had to experience some shitty stuff ever so often. But do you think Klopp’s comments were xenophobic? Do you think the stuff he was saying are lies?

[El Lobo]

He is correct and I agree with him. It's just the political situation in Europe right now is weird after an EU official made the comments about how Europe is a garden and the rest of the world is a jungle which made tensions go high and a lot of people feel like there is an increased xenophobia against Arabs in Europe.

In terms of xenophobia, I'm right in thinking that you voted to leave the EU because 'Poles and Romanians could come and live here without any hassle or requirements'? Right?

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

You are being aggressive in tone to this poster by calling him "obtuse" - this is not necessary. And no, his comments are not irrelevant because you disagree with them.

There is a discussion to be had here.

Is there really? I'd love to hear what it is.

[lollysportswasher]

you for.real lad, This place and the media is awash with criticism of sport washing states....yet Klopp offends you and your friends!...its a critique of state wealth unbalancing the game in the UK..plus it is a vehicle to present a better image for states that the liberal west question on on a whole range of issues.

City tapped up a couple of journos using a term that they know even without foundation in the current climate attracts more attention and deflectd from the vile chantting of their fans.....you appear to have fell for it hook line as sinker.

He made his comments Friday...City tapped up their journo after Liverpool statement...hmmmm

and as a Liverpool fan how on earth can you not see that?

 I was not offended by Klopp's comments and I agree with him.

[Qston]

You are being aggressive in tone to this poster by calling him "obtuse" - this is not necessary. And no, his comments are not irrelevant because you disagree with them.

There is a discussion to be had here.

Yes there is. About state owned clubs which was the point Klopp was making.

[FlashingBlade]

I was not offended by Klopp's comments and I agree with him.

why?

[lollysportswasher]

In terms of xenophobia, I'm right in thinking that you voted to leave the EU because 'Poles and Romanians could come and live here without any hassle or requirements'? Right?

Politically I'm left wing. I disliked  the EU as neoliberal institution, Corbyn himself wasn't fan of the EU either. I still ended up voting remain.

[El Lobo]

Politically I'm left wing. I disliked  the EU as neoliberal institution, Corbyn himself wasn't fan of the EU either. I still ended up voting remain.

So this was a lie?

I voted out simply because I want a fairer immigration system for everyone. I can't even bring my partner to live with me and get married because of the absurd spousal visa rules that my country has. I can't even move back to his country because he lives in a Muslim country and you know what does that means, whilst anyone who is from Poland or Romania can bring anyone here without any hassle nor requirements.

This tory government is forcing me to live in a long distance relationship until I figure out something and choose my partner based his the nationality and not the love. If voting out means the same rules that applies for Non EU citizens can apply to EU citizens then yes I'm voting out, also I so much want the clown of our prime minster to be out too.

[lollysportswasher]

I wish Lolowalsh would come back with a reply to this post. And also answer the other question that has been mentioned. Did Klopp say anything about the human rights issues that have happened? No, he’s talking about them being in a financial situation where there are no limits bar being too obvious with the dodgy bookkeeping and artificial sponsorship deals.

Otherwise than that they can do what they like.

I also wish that you took the chance (maybe you did?) to defend our manager to your friends, or at least had an open discussion about the fact that these clubs are owned by nation states. About the fact that they can pretty much spend what they want.

I don’t doubt you’ve had to experience some shitty stuff ever so often. But do you think Klopp’s comments were xenophobic? Do you think the stuff he was saying are lies?

I defended Klopp and I will always do . He's not racist where our best players is from the middle east himself and he got himself sent off because of him. IMO he should sue the shite newspapers who tried to bait to score some points and increase their sales.

[NarutoReds]

Klopp and xenophobic?

2021, The Guardian UK:

Klopp reveals how the club's Muslim players, notably Mohamed Salah and Sadio Mané, have had their routines integrated into the team’s match-day plans by allowing the pair to wash after the team warm-up, in keeping with Islamic custom.

“I love that we have so much ‘multi-culti’,” Klopp says. “I would say (having) the best ambassadors for being a Muslim in the team is really great. Muslims wash their body very often in specific situations. Before warming up, after warming up, it takes time. So we decided to do things differently.

“We only had an hour when we arrive in the stadium and when we go back in the dressing room after warming up to do these rituals. It costs us exactly two minutes to do these rituals (waiting Mane and Salah's performing an Islamic ablution in cleaning). It’s easy to give these two minutes away that they can do in this moment what is to them absolutely important."

-- Jurgen Klopp --

I think most people have no idea on how's his relationship with Salah behind the scene actually. Please, there's no way Klopp is xenophobic.

[lollysportswasher]

So this was a lie?

I'm sorry for this dumb post, I feel embarrassed that I once posted shite like that, but yeah I ended up voting remain.

[FlashingBlade]

Cant believe its even being discussed...well done City PR machine..you win!

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

snip

It doesn't even need defending mate, it's so ridiculous.

[lollysportswasher]

Cant believe its even being discussed...well done City PR machine..you win!

The power of the media and people not reading. My hatred for City grows day after day, it still pleases me that they couldn't beat us even when we are plagued with injuries. 

[El Lobo]

It doesn't even need defending mate, it's so ridiculous.

Depressing that we've had 'discussions' over this and Jordan Henderson over the last week or so.

Intriguingly...

If he said something racist that would be the end of his Liverpool career. I don't think Klopp or the board are gonna tolerate something like this which will put us into another shite situation where we gonna have to buy 3+ midfielder and still be short. So I'm praying it's something minor and the media are just chatting shite.

with the same 'protagonists'

[lollysportswasher]

Depressing that we've had 'discussions' over this and Jordan Henderson over the last week or so.

Intriguingly...

with the same 'protagonists'

I took some screen shots for you if you want to have a laugh. This is what Man City fans think: https://imgur.com/CaUjWo1

[Magix]

I believe we just saw an example of the sportwashing deflection working in real-time.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

The power of the media and people not reading. My hatred for City grows day after day, it still pleases me that they cannot beat us even when we are plagued with injuries.

So is that your mates then who chose to be offended by mishearing what Klopp said / being told what to think by City's PR?

Perhaps next time just challenge them yourself instead of repeating their nonsense on here. Unless of course your mates didn't really say that, and it was just you testing the water? I saw you put another post on The Anfield Wrap thread when you didn't mention your mates, just that you thought Klopp "should" have also mentioned Chelsea.

[JC the Messiah]

You are being aggressive in tone to this poster by calling him "obtuse" - this is not necessary. And no, his comments are not irrelevant because you disagree with them.

There is a discussion to be had here.

Discussion and debate requires honesty and evidence. Not dishonesty and faslehoods.

Not being aggressive to the person, but I'll vehemently defend Klopp and what he said here, and won't allow someone with an obvious agenda try to muddy the water.

[plura]

I defended Klopp and I will always do . He's not racist where our best players is from the middle east himself and he got himself sent off because of him. IMO he should sue the shite newspapers who tried to bait to score some points and increase their sales.

Ok, but do you think his comments were xenophobic?

Or untrue?

[El Lobo]

I took some screen shots for you if you want to have a laugh. This is what Man City fans think: https://imgur.com/CaUjWo1

I've already had a laugh at certain posts this morning Lolo

[Kenny's Jacket]

So this was a lie?

How is this relevant to Klopp?  RAWK has a directive of playing the ball not the man.

Do you need to be picking on someone like this.  Id have thought someone estranged from their partner would get some understanding, not have it thrown in their face.