Topic: Qatar's True WC Legacy: news and reports on the human cost of sportswashing.

[tubby]

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=344280.msg16953370#msg16953370

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=344254.msg16948950#msg16948950

You may be disappointed.

Will be even more disappointed when he sees he posted in them.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

You cant remember if you watched Liverpool win a trophy 3 years ago?

The Qatari regime have been well known for their awful human rights record for some time.

The PL, have welcomed investment from UAE and Saudi Arabia and most people on here are always watching it.

As I said, I don't really care about the WCC, so if I did watch it (doubtful), it would hardly stand out. I doubt many English supporters care that much about it, but I may be wrong.

And you can see that there is a difference between an English-based league with investment from those nations and a whole major tournament based in a place where the whole thing is enabled by modern slavery and enforced by brutality, surely? Eventually (soonish, by the look of things), the PL will probably become no more than a plaything of Saudi and UAE, and yes, at that point I won't be watching any more, certainly.

Anyway, as I said, I understand that you might find it a more complicated position if a team you care about are playing ... I don't really care how England do anyway.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Will be even more disappointed when he sees he posted in them.

 

To be fair to him, hes not the first to virtue signal from a place of hypocrisy.

[lollysportswasher]

How do you counter the argument from people who are saying:   it's their country, their rules here in the West we expect foreigners to integrate to our culture, then we should respect theirs when we are at their home.   

[Kenny's Jacket]

As I said, I don't really care about the WCC, so if I did watch it (doubtful), it would hardly stand out. I doubt many English supporters care that much about it, but I may be wrong.

And you can see that there is a difference between an English-based league with investment from those nations and a whole major tournament based in a place where the whole thing is enabled by modern slavery and enforced by brutality, surely? Eventually (soonish, by the look of things), the PL will probably become no more than a plaything of Saudi and UAE, and yes, at that point I won't be watching any more, certainly.

Anyway, as I said, I understand that you might find it a more complicated position if a team you care about are playing ... I don't really care how England do anyway.

I find it hard to believe that you dont remember if you watched Liverpool win a trophy 3 years ago.

Good for you for boycotting the World cup, by the time the next one arrives in 4 years you would have forgotten the fact you boycotted it.

[Kenny's Jacket]

How do you counter the argument from people who are saying:   it's their country, their rules here in the West we expect foreigners to integrate to our culture, then we should respect theirs when we are at their home.

We dont necessarily expect that.  Jews and Muslims are allowed to slaughter animals in a way they are comfortable with, whilst many wont be comfortable with that way of slaughter.

Many shopping centres provide, toilets suited to different cultures, whilst westerners would find the difficult to use.
  Employers make provisions for prayers etc.

Btw get this argument in quick, the government are becoming more right wing by the hour.

Over there no one expects  to be able to go topless on the beach or getting pissed on the streets, but if opposing sexed couples can hold hands so should same sex be able too.   Its  fine to think something is immoral, even if its the law of the land. 

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

I find it hard to believe that you dont remember if you watched Liverpool win a trophy 3 years ago.

Good for you for boycotting the World cup, by the time the next one arrives in 4 years you would have forgotten the fact you boycotted it.

Good for you making it about whether I remember (or am being honest about) a game I already said doesn't mean much to me.  I certainly remember many other supposedly less important games quite clearly. I don't really think that's the main issue here, is it? You are suggesting that anyone boycotting the world cup is merely virtue signalling because they may once have done something that might have possibly contradicted that ethical stance if they had potentially known as much as they do now. Ok then. I think there are plenty of good reasons to take a more enlightened stance as one becomes more aware, rather than say - well, I didn't care about things like this back in *whenever* so I can't do now.

[PatriotScouser]

I'm looking forward to watching my nation beat the english on black Friday 

[Barneylfc∗]

Good for you making it about whether I remember (or am being honest about) a game I already said doesn't mean much to me.  I certainly remember many other supposedly less important games quite clearly. I don't really think that's the main issue here, is it? You are suggesting that anyone boycotting the world cup is merely virtue signalling because they may once have done something that might have possibly contradicted that ethical stance if they had potentially known as much as they do now. Ok then. I think there are plenty of good reasons to take a more enlightened stance as one becomes more aware, rather than say - well, I didn't care about things like this back in *whenever* so I can't do now.

I remember Firmino scoring the winner. I don't remember who we beat in any of the games. I wasn't even aware (I may have been at the time, but if you asked me before Kenny had said it, I wouldn't have remembered) it was in Qatar until Kenny's Jacket used it to defend the World Cup being there.

I get it being the first World Cup that Wales have qualified for in 70 years or however long it's been, but that's no reason to defend Qatar.

[tubby]

I remember Firmino scoring the winner. I don't remember who we beat in any of the games. I wasn't even aware it was in Qatar until Kenny's Jacket used it to defend the World Cup being there.

I get it being the first World Cup that Wales have qualified for in 70 years or however long it's been, but that's no reason to defend Qatar.

Don't think Kenny is defending it being in Qatar at all, or even the laws over there, has he actually said that anywhere?

[Kenny's Jacket]

Good for you making it about whether I remember (or am being honest about) a game I already said doesn't mean much to me.  I certainly remember many other supposedly less important games quite clearly. I don't really think that's the main issue here, is it? You are suggesting that anyone boycotting the world cup is merely virtue signalling because they may once have done something that might have possibly contradicted that ethical stance if they had potentially known as much as they do now. Ok then. I think there are plenty of good reasons to take a more enlightened stance as one becomes more aware, rather than say - well, I didn't care about things like this back in *whenever* so I can't do now.

Im not saying anyone who boycotting is virtue signalling.  However if you feel the need to tell people all about your boycott on a discussion forum, thats the epitome of virtue signalling. 
Here is the internets definition

the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.

As for your poor memory, of course its not relevant to the actions of Qatar or FIFA, but it does come across as something difficult to believe.  Dont you think?

RAWK has many very knowledgeable and politically motivated posters.  Qatar's human rights issues have been well documented here for quite a while. 

[Stockholm Syndrome]

I remember Firmino scoring the winner. I don't remember who we beat in any of the games. I wasn't even aware (I may have been at the time, but if you asked me before Kenny had said it, I wouldn't have remembered) it was in Qatar until Kenny's Jacket used it to defend the World Cup being there.

I get it being the first World Cup that Wales have qualified for in 70 years or however long it's been, but that's no reason to defend Qatar.

I remember the manager of the other team being Jorge Jesus who used to be Benfica manager (which I only remember for a good European night and him having some impressive hair and name) but didn't realize it was Qatar, or what happened other than we won.

I know I didn't watch it because I wasn't really arsed but I followed stuff about it

[Barneylfc∗]

Don't think Kenny is defending it being in Qatar at all, or even the laws over there, has he actually said that anywhere?

He's been very quick to slate a few posters, me included, for saying they'll be boycotting it. To me that translates as he's defending it. Everyone else is entitled to take it a different way as they please.

[Kenny's Jacket]

He's been very quick to slate a few posters, me included, for saying they'll be boycotting it. To me that translates as he's defending it. Everyone else is entitled to take it a different way as they please.

does it Barney ?

I point out that posters comfotable to watch when  Qatar hosted the CWC when Liverpool were in it.

Thats very different from your untrue, unfounded, petty accusation.   

[Dim Glas]

Don't think Kenny is defending it being in Qatar at all, or even the laws over there, has he actually said that anywhere?

excactly this. Unfair to say he has really.

He’s just been honest about the fact he’ll be watching it. Reasonably sure many from RAWK will be!

 

[tubby]

He's been very quick to slate a few posters, me included, for saying they'll be boycotting it. To me that translates as he's defending it. Everyone else is entitled to take it a different way as they please.

Yeah not really seeing that, but it's a horrible subject - everyone is entitled to do things their own way.  I wouldn't have a go at anyone watching it, it's the World Cup.  But I can understand folks boycotting it.

[Kenny's Jacket]

I remember Firmino scoring the winner. I don't remember who we beat in any of the games. I wasn't even aware (I may have been at the time, but if you asked me before Kenny had said it, I wouldn't have remembered) it was in Qatar until Kenny's Jacket used it to defend the World Cup being there.
--
I get it being the first World Cup that Wales have qualified for in 70 years or however long it's been, but that's no reason to defend Qatar.

please stop talking shit Barney?

[Barneylfc∗]

please stop talking shit Barney?

Maybe stop having a go at posters for saying they are boycotting it then? Just because they didn't boycott something 3 or 4 years ago, it doesn't mean they can't boycott something now.

[PatriotScouser]

Maybe stop having a go at posters for saying they are boycotting it then? Just because they didn't boycott something 3 or 4 years ago, it doesn't mean they can't boycott something now.

And will those same people lament those who do watch it?

[didi shamone]

Im not saying anyone who boycotting is virtue signalling.  However if you feel the need to tell people all about your boycott on a discussion forum, thats the epitome of virtue signalling. 
Here is the internets definition

the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.

As for your poor memory, of course its not relevant to the actions of Qatar or FIFA, but it does come across as something difficult to believe.  Dont you think?

RAWK has many very knowledgeable and politically motivated posters.  Qatar's human rights issues have been well documented here for quite a while.

People who accuse others of virtue signalling because they announce they'll be boycotting the world Cup on an open forum are cowardly enablers.

See, lazy labelling to stifle debate can work both ways.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Maybe stop having a go at posters for saying they are boycotting it then? Just because they didn't boycott something 3 or 4 years ago, it doesn't mean they can't boycott something now.

So me saying something you dont like means you can tell lies about me ?
You are intelligent enough to know its a lie too.

As you have brought it up again, of course picking and choosing which Qatar tournament you boycott is hypocritical.

[Barneylfc∗]

And will those same people lament those who do watch it?

Ask them.

For me, watching it is condoning it. I'm not going to chase people round calling them out though. (I'll be using the same method as Whereangelsplay)

[Barneylfc∗]

So me saying something you dont like means you can tell lies about me ?
You are intelligent enough to know its a lie too.

As you have brought it up again, of course picking and choosing which Qatar tournament you boycott is hypocritical.

Is it hypocritical? You're assuming everyone that watched the club world cup in Qatar knew about what goes on in Qatar. Maybe they didn't and have only been educated on it since?

[Kenny's Jacket]

Ask them.

For me, watching it is condoning it. I'm not going to chase people round calling them out though. (I'll be using the same method as Whereangelsplay)

You accuse me of condoning it, then claim watching it is condoning it, then let it be known you'll be watching it

 

C'mon Barney 

[Dim Glas]

Is it hypocritical? You're assuming everyone that watched the club world cup in Qatar knew about what goes on in Qatar. Maybe they didn't and have only been educated on it since?

Not wanting to state the obvious here - but this very thread was started 9 years ago, and there are comments on the first page of it condoning it.

Reasonably sure many of us where uncomfortable of Liverpool playing there, but ‘put up with it’ because it was our club. It wasn’t cos we where all ignorant to it.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Is it hypocritical? You're assuming everyone that watched the club world cup in Qatar knew about what goes on in Qatar. Maybe they didn't and have only been educated on it since?

Thats a fair point, however I find it difficult to believe RAWK members are that ignorant.  There have been posts about the human rights record of Middle Eastern regimes for quite some time.  5 months before we played in Qatar we lost the league  title by 1 point to one such regime.
It was fresh in our minds. I'm not buying the ignorance. 

Edit - just read Dim Glas' post.  She says it all perfectly and succinctly

[Barneylfc∗]

You accuse me of condoning it, then claim watching it is condoning it, then let it be known you'll be watching it

 

C'mon Barney

via illegal streams, which will contribute absolutely fuck all to it.

Not wanting to state the obvious here - but this very thread was started 9 years ago, and there are comments on the first page of it condoning it.

Reasonably sure many of us where uncomfortable of Liverpool playing there, but ‘put up with it’ because it was our club. It wasn’t cos we where all ignorant to it.

The first 20 pages span 6 years. It's hardly been the hotbed of conversation until the last year or 2.

Thats a fair point, however I find it difficult to believe RAWK members are that ignorant.  There have been posts about the human rights record of Middle Eastern regimes for quite some time.  5 months before we played in Qatar we lost the league  title by 1 point to one such regime.
It was fresh in our minds. I'm not buying the ignorance. 

I'm guilty of it. Just because one Middle Eastern country is bent as fuck, it doesn't mean they all are. They may all be, I've no idea 

Not everyone knows everything about what's going on around the world. Take the DEC appeal on BT during recent games for example. I've still no idea what has went on in Pakistan apart from a bit of flooding because they have mentioned it.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Ask them.

For me, watching it is condoning it. I'm not going to chase people round calling them out though. (I'll be using the same method as Whereangelsplay)

Calling everyone a c*nt 

[oojason]

'10,000 litres a day for each pitch: Qatar World Cup’s huge impact on Gulf waters':-

Reliance on desalination comes with a big environmental cost for the region’s marine environment

www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/07/10000-litres-day-pitch-qatar-world-cup-huge-impact-gulf-waters

[Kenny's Jacket]

Calling everyone a c*nt 

Some will watch it, some wont, Dems the fax

[Crosby Nick]

I'm looking forward to watching my nation beat the english on black Friday 

Shit like this makes me hate myself a little for sometimes wanting England to win and annoy you.

On Black Friday…Jesus.

[Kenny's Jacket]

I'm looking forward to watching my nation beat the english on black Friday 

My detective skills conclude you're Iranian.  How good or bad is your team?

I hope you put all your efforts into beating the English and the Americans 

[afc tukrish]

Calling everyone a c*nt 

 

You do have a bit of a narrative modus vivendi...

[Boston always unofficial]

You do have a bit of a narrative modus vivendi...

The bloke that wrote "The Four seasons",nice tunes there.

[Son of Spion]

My detective skills conclude you're Iranian.  How good or bad is your team?

I hope you put all your efforts into beating the English and the Americans 

Bloody hell, we've got Moshiri posting on RAWK. 

I just knew Moshilad was a closet Red. It would explain a lot. 

[elsewhere]

I hate everything about this World Cup but part of me is looking fwd to see some good matches, am I being a twat?

[newterp]

I hate everything about this World Cup but part of me is looking fwd to see some good matches, am I being a twat?

no. just a c*nt.

(It's indeed a crazy situation).

[Kenny's Jacket]

I hate everything about this World Cup but part of me is looking fwd to see some good matches, am I being a twat?

No. Who will you follow Turkey or USA.?

[Aldo1988]

Being Welsh (yeah, go easy on me), I'll be watching it, but flat refused to go over there.  I go to games home and away but will not be going over there, my mates are and are paying ridiculous amounts as it's the first time in our lifetime that Wales have qualified.  They are staying in Abu Dhabi and flying over to the games, doesn't make it any better to me, but I will be supporting my country but from home with my other mates!

[Kenny's Jacket]

Being Welsh (yeah, go easy on me), I'll be watching it, but flat refused to go over there.  I go to games home and away but will not be going over there, my mates are and are paying ridiculous amounts as it's the first time in our lifetime that Wales have qualified.  They are staying in Abu Dhabi and flying over to the games, doesn't make it any better to me, but I will be supporting my country but from home with my other mates!

I was guaranteed tickets for the 3 group games, but can no longer go for medical reasons. Gutted.