Topic: Lawless Liverpool?

[Fiasco]

Of course speculation is not appropriate here but I agree with the notion that the case from the prosecution doesn't seem particularly strong.

[courty61]

The Letby one is a bit mad considering how long she's been in custody for too.

Plus her solicitor is that prick who acted for Duckenfield.

[Mumm-Ra]

The Cashman case seems to all hinge on the girlfriend's account. Any idea if the target, Joseph Nee, is cooperating? Or if Paul Russell will take the stand?

Also, they haven't laid out any motive. It can be vaguely explained away as a drug-related dispute but they'd want a more concrete, specific motive surely? I haven't seen anything that even connects Cashman to Nee in the Echo yet

As for the Letby case, is it just me or is it weird how little attention the case is getting? It seems huge. I'm sure there was more noise around Shipman and this one is a million times worse. If there is a lack of media spotlight on this, is it because they're not sure she's guilty, or will get found guilty?

[Crosby Nick]

I’ve only seen snippets of the court reporting in the Letby case but seemed like a lot of the doctors and medical staff had concerns about her and lots of her being at the scene of the crime. Haven’t heard the defence side yet, or have they not yet reached that stage?

[Mumm-Ra]

I’ve only seen snippets of the court reporting in the Letby case but seemed like a lot of the doctors and medical staff had concerns about her and lots of her being at the scene of the crime. Haven’t heard the defence side yet, or have they not yet reached that stage?

Both sides are cross-examining witnesses currently. It's mental that doctors would be so concerned about her and yet she was still on the ward. I just read that a set of triplets died after they had already raised serious concerns about her.

If she is innocent this is the biggest character assassination of all time but that seems highly doubtful from what I've read. You'd think she'd have broken down and confessed by this point though. Maybe some crimes are so bad that you can't even admit them to yourself

[courty61]

The Cashman case seems to all hinge on the girlfriend's account. Any idea if the target, Joseph Nee, is cooperating? Or if Paul Russell will take the stand?

Also, they haven't laid out any motive. It can be vaguely explained away as a drug-related dispute but they'd want a more concrete, specific motive surely? I haven't seen anything that even connects Cashman to Nee in the Echo yet

As for the Letby case, is it just me or is it weird how little attention the case is getting? It seems huge. I'm sure there was more noise around Shipman and this one is a million times worse. If there is a lack of media spotlight on this, is it because they're not sure she's guilty, or will get found guilty?

I think all witnesses have taken the stand in the Cashman case, could be summing up next week.

Cashman was saying he was with Nee the day before the shooting, but none of those people have testified

[Spezialo]

Wouldn't they normally get Russell and Nee, people involved like that to take the stand anyway?

Looks like there is not much on Cashman is there? He is saying he would be on CCTV (and the gunman) going to the girl witnesses house.

[Redbonnie]

Looks like Cashman will walk but doubt he will have a happy ever after.

[Nobby Reserve]

Wouldn't they normally get Russell and Nee, people involved like that to take the stand anyway?

Suggests he's a bigger player than just a mid-sized weed dealer...

Wouldn't it be great if someone could wave a magic wand and the entire load of scum that comprise Liverpool’s criminal gang underbelly all die horribly painful deaths?

[Redbonnie]

Suggests he's a bigger player than just a mid-sized weed dealer...

Wouldn't it be great if someone could wave a magic wand and the entire load of scum that comprise Liverpool’s criminal gang underbelly all die horribly painful deaths?

Absolutely…they have just sunk to a new low. Whether it was Cashman or not, by protecting a kiddy killer they have lowered the bar and put targets on their own kids backs. Next thing will be kids being taken out deliberately.

[Millie]

Absolutely…they have just sunk to a new low. Whether it was Cashman or not, by protecting a kiddy killer they have lowered the bar and put targets on their own kids backs. Next thing will be kids being taken out deliberately.

Why on earth would they do that?    That makes no sense whatsoever.

[Redbonnie]

Why on earth would they do that?    That makes no sense whatsoever.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mexican-drug-cartels-targeting-and-killing-children/2011/04/07/AFwkFb9C_story.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/children-murdered-mafia-italian-mobsters-3402712

As above ..

It used to be beyond the pale to go after someone’s girlfriend..not any more see Ashley Dale. It was thought if you killed a kid that went too far and the code wouldn’t apply. Not any more see Olivia Pratt-Korbel.

It moves it to the next level….  Before long it will be pay up or your kids are getting smoked. It  makes every sense if you know that world because they now know even if you kill a kid you will still have back up . Whether it’s Cashman or not whoever killed Olivia is being protected and that’s a game changer and very bad news for this city.

Luckily for whoever did this Olivia’s family are civilians, if it was a big time dealers kid who was shot do you really think the shooters kids would be safe?

[Millie]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mexican-drug-cartels-targeting-and-killing-children/2011/04/07/AFwkFb9C_story.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/children-murdered-mafia-italian-mobsters-3402712

As above ..

It used to be beyond the pale to go after someone’s girlfriend..not any more see Ashley Dale. It was thought if you killed a kid that went too far and the code wouldn’t apply. Not any more see Olivia Pratt-Korbel.

It moves it to the next level….  Before long it will be pay up or your kids are getting smoked. It  makes every sense if you know that world because they now know even if you kill a kid you will still have back up . Whether it’s Cashman or not whoever killed Olivia is being protected and that’s a game changer and very bad news for this city.

Luckily for whoever did this Olivia’s family are civilians, if it was a big time dealers kid who was shot do you really think the shooters kids would be safe?

But you were talking about this case in Liverpool where, as you have rightly pointed out, the victim's family here are not rival drug dealers. 

Also not sure if you can compare the Mexican Drug Cartels or the Mafia with Liverpool to be honest.

[Fiasco]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mexican-drug-cartels-targeting-and-killing-children/2011/04/07/AFwkFb9C_story.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/children-murdered-mafia-italian-mobsters-3402712

As above ..

It used to be beyond the pale to go after someone’s girlfriend..not any more see Ashley Dale. It was thought if you killed a kid that went too far and the code wouldn’t apply. Not any more see Olivia Pratt-Korbel.

It moves it to the next level….  Before long it will be pay up or your kids are getting smoked. It  makes every sense if you know that world because they now know even if you kill a kid you will still have back up . Whether it’s Cashman or not whoever killed Olivia is being protected and that’s a game changer and very bad news for this city.

Luckily for whoever did this Olivia’s family are civilians, if it was a big time dealers kid who was shot do you really think the shooters kids would be safe?

Pretty sure the police said Ashley Dale was not the intended target. And for the facts of the case, little Olivia was clearly not the intended target, she was killed in horrendously tragic and fateful circumstances.

[Redbonnie]

Pretty sure the police said Ashley Dale was not the intended target. And for the facts of the case, little Olivia was clearly not the intended target, she was killed in horrendously tragic and fateful circumstances.

Olivia was not the intended target obviously, but the man who killed her is  being protected by the system, even though he killed a child.  That means people are being either paid or intimidated into keeping their mouths shut. That doesn’t mean it is Cashman btw.

As for Ashley Dale the facts will come out in court but it has not been said that she was killed accidentally. She may well have been killed incidentally which is a different matter.

I wouldn’t kid yourself that Liverpool is very different from Mexico and Italy. Our police are less corrupt but the drug dealers are the same.  A lot of very bad people are making serious money here. They are completely ruthless as we can see with the Olivia case.

[Mumm-Ra]

Just reading the recap of the last week of the trial on the Echo: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/what-happened-during-third-week-26527309

Thought this part was interesting:

Cashman replied: "I did not kill a little girl. Is my DNA anywhere on the house on Kingsheath Avenue?

"Could you tell the jury that please? If my DNA was there, you’d tell the jury.

"Joseph Nee’s give a name in of the suspect who did it - is this person’s DNA on the door of the house? You can’t answer that."

Have to agree with the assessment that this is a weak case. They've got nothing like the evidence they had for Rhys Jones. I was surprised that this trial was happening so quickly, feels like the shooting just happened. I wonder was this investigation/prosecution a bit rushed?

Looks like it's final arguments today. Live updates on the Echo. Prosecution going after his version now and sounding pretty convincing, but still the actual evidence seems shaky

[courty61]

Tough one to guess this from the Echo blog.

The defence is also pouring doubt into the CPSs case in my opinion.

One thing for me is, if it was him, what was the motive? Couldn't see any evidence of any motive put forward by the prosecution

[Mumm-Ra]

Tough one to guess this from the Echo blog.

The defence is also pouring doubt into the CPSs case in my opinion.

One thing for me is, if it was him, what was the motive? Couldn't see any evidence of any motive put forward by the prosecution

No, still not seen any mention of a motive. Other than the 'woman scorned' nobody has said a thing against him have they? Which actually goes to make him look more guilty, that everyone involved is keeping so quiet. But that doesn't help the case

Side note - it was pretty funny reading how Cashman's mate showed up to give evidence covered in the same brand that the defence was saying every scally wears

[Fiasco]

No motive, no murder weapon(s), a very erratic witness with a plausible reason to lie (and who had previously admitted to wanting to ruin the defendant's life), some sketchy CCTV and not a lot else.

I'll be shocked if he doesn't walk.

[Redbonnie]

Agree with everything said except we haven’t seen the cctv and it might be obvious it’s the same person. On paper the defence will throw doubt but the CCTV might be more compelling than we realise. I thought it was interesting that the defence barrister said we are not bad people, we are not the devil incarnate our job is just  to test the evidence. I wondered why he felt the need to say that.

[courty61]

Agree with everything said except we haven’t seen the cctv and it might be obvious it’s the same person. On paper the defence will throw doubt but the CCTV might be more compelling than we realise. I thought it was interesting that the defence barrister said we are not bad people, we are not the devil incarnate our job is just  to test the evidence. I wondered why he felt the need to say that.

The emotional aspect perhaps? The prosecution using that a lot in their evidence

[Mumm-Ra]

Looks like the judge is finishing up with closing remarks then it's down to the jury. Prosecution case not looking any stronger. Don't envy the jury, imagine being in that position now.

[Nobby Reserve]

Please, please, please don't let this shitstained maggot go free

 :'(

[gazzam1963]

Please, please, please don't let this shitstained maggot go free

 :'(

He’s even got his defence in for when he is arrested for drug dealing “ he’s only deals in class C  drugs not a bad dealer who deals in class A “

[Fiasco]

Guilty on all counts.

[keano7]

The CCTV footage must have been key.

[Working Class Hen-Pecked Hero]

Good news

[gazzalfc]

Shocked but happy that the family have got justice.

He wont last long inside.

2 more arrested for the Sam Rimmer shooting as well

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/two-arrested-suspicion-murdering-sam-26594667

[Qston]

It's making more sense now given what the judge has now said can be made public about his mate pleading guilty to assisting an offender. I know this fellas name was everywhere, but having read the reports from the trial the evidence seemed a little weak. The jury will have seen and heard a lot more than us reading about it.

Horrible bastard

[anfieldpurch]

It's making more sense now given what the judge has now said can be made public about his mate pleading guilty to assisting an offender. I know this fellas name was everywhere, but having read the reports from the trial the evidence seemed a little weak. The jury will have seen and heard a lot more than us reading about it.

Horrible bastard

No doubt the Echo will be releasing some of that information over the coming weeks

[courty61]

It's making more sense now given what the judge has now said can be made public about his mate pleading guilty to assisting an offender. I know this fellas name was everywhere, but having read the reports from the trial the evidence seemed a little weak. The jury will have seen and heard a lot more than us reading about it.

Horrible bastard

Isn't that Paul Russell fella the lad who was going out with the witness who couldn't be named?

Glad, relived, I suppose this is the problem with play by play on websites, you do not get the full picture.

[Brain Potter]

Reading the reports I wasn’t convinced he’d be found guilty, but delighted this piece of shit has been found guilty.

[gazzam1963]

Reading the reports I wasn’t convinced he’d be found guilty, but delighted this piece of shit has been found guilty.

Me too , justice for the poor family

[B0151?]

Respect to that woman who testified.

[Nobby Reserve]

Brilliant news.

Respect to that woman who testified.

Absolutely. Brave, brave girl.



Rest in peace now, Olivia  :'(

[Crosby Nick]

Respect to that woman who testified.

Who was that?

[sheepfest]

Great news for the family and the witness whose life is now so different and dangerous no doubt.

[swoopy]

Great news for the family.

[Gerry Attrick]

Who was that?

She couldn’t be named, Nick.

[Crosby Nick]

She couldn’t be named, Nick.

Obviously. Just thought it might have been a new witness but have just read up on it now and saw it was the woman he’d had some kind of relationship with.