Topic: PL: Eve 2 vs 0 Liverpool Bran 27’ Lewin 58’

[Always_A_Red]

He’s 24. Is he going to have the ruthless efficiency of Haaland? Probably not,  but he can get better. And realistically, he only needs to get a little better because the biggest problem for strikers is actually getting high percentage chances, which he gets in abundance. If he improves even marginally given the chances he’s had, I reckon his return would be pretty phenomenal.

Sorry mate but you're deluded. 24 is prime age for a number 9. He's barely reaching double figures for league goals and he's 25 in June.

Michael Owen, Robbie Fowler, Ian Rush, Fernando Torres......Go and look how many league goals they had by 24.

He's not good enough. 

[kasperoff]

I’d let the new manager work with him. There’s an excellent player in there. Tonight just feels shit.

He lacks the basics. I can't see him becoming the player we need him to be. I'm surprised we bought him at all, based on what I've seen. I just don't see how he'd fit in with any formation or style Klopp likes to play. Looks like the sort of player who'd thrive playing for a team that invites pressure and constantly plays on the break and into space over the top. Trying to play in a packed area against a low block is not his game at all.

The Newcastle game was a high point, but there's been far too many lows. Watching him try and hold the ball up tonight was painful. He was struggling to even get it under control.

[traustibm]

No wonder luanne left you.

I get the point you're making but I disagree. I don't think klopp is leaving because of our fanbaae. I think he's leaving cos he's had enough trying to compete against 115 city and VAR. I don't blame him.

Why not take Klopp’s word at face value? He’s tired and he explained why.

[Kopenhagen]

All eyes on Arnie now:

[decosabute]

They didn't. This is all self inflicted. We've done it to ourselves.

Just on my way home from town. City centre is very subdued tonight. I'm sorry, but that performance was diabolical. We've lost to a dire relegation side, and so meekly too. I feel for Klopp. The overriding take-home from his tenure is positive and ever so thrilling. We've won virtually everything with him. He didn't deserve to see it ending like this though. Out of the cup to a shocking United side. Beaten at home to the journeymen of Crystal Palace. Out of the UEFA CUP to a willing but fairly average Atalanta. Now, beaten by one of the worse Everton sides in history. Klopp deserved so much more than this.

Spot on.

People need to stop making excuses with the ref and whatever else. That was a disgrace from so many this evening. Letting down the greatest manager of our modern era. I'm infuriated and fuming at our players in a way I've rarely been at any time under any manager. Just an absolutely colossal disappointment. Some look finished, some were never good enough to begin with, some are just bizarrely hitting the worst form of their whole liverpool careers at the worst possible time.

People shouldn't sugarcoat this. It's a landmark awful performance and result. And I couldn't give a shit about Everton. Regardless of who the opposition were, it's simply one of the saddest, most deflating nights I can remember supporting this great club.

I feel so, so sorry for Klopp. Deserved so much better from a multitude of players.

[Johnny Aldridge]

Eh?! I do. He said he is tired and I explained what I think has drained his energy over and above what one might expect.

Abu Ghrabi has done that way more than what you’ve suggested.

[stockdam]

He lacks the basics. I can't see him becoming the player we need him to be. I'm surprised we bought him at all, based on what I've seen. I just don't see how he'd fit in with any formation or style Klopp likes to play. Looks like the sort of player who'd thrive playing for a team that invites pressure and constantly plays on the break and into space over the top. Trying to play in a packed area against a low block is not his game at all.

The Newcastle game was a high point, but there's been far too many lows. Watching him try and hold the ball up tonight was painful. He was struggling to even get it under control.

Nunez looked a really good player when we played Benfica but as you said he was best when given space to run into. Most of the teams we play don't give him that space. He had one good chance tonight and he tried to blast it rather than place it.

He might come good in a different system but his finishing is nowhere near Jota's or even Gakpo's.

[Gili Gulu]

Nunez looked a really good player when we played Benfica but as you said he was best when given space to run into. Most of the teams we play don't give him that space. He had one good chance tonight and he tried to blast it rather than place it.

He might come good in a different system but his finishing is nowhere near Jota's or even Gakpo's.

He'd have had at least a couple more but he made a horrid mess of a couple of passes into him in the box.

[Coolie High]

Rush, Fowler and Owen came through at Liverpool.

We signed Torres and Sturridge at the kind of age Nunez is now.

And they both hit the ground running.

[telekon]

Some of them tonight mate, wow. An absolute fucking disgrace, a good few. First, I have to say, I'm less sad about Klopp's time here coming to an end than I thought I'd be. He's been revolutionary, a pleasure to have, one of the club's best ever figures for sure but it's a good thing he's going at this stage I feel, we need a change as it's become Dortmund levels of stale and some of his decisions recently have been terrible. Two of the last four seasons have been outright crap and if I'm honest I won't remember this one particularly fondly either.

As for the players, humiliated themselves tonight, the fans too, they should feel genuine remorse about getting turned over there. I'm past Van Dijk's casual aura, you need to get a serious fucking grip mate, gradually got worse as the season has got on and culminated in an abysmal last month alongside Konate. Quansah should start over one of them for the last games. Best defender of his day but that's behind him now, I don't believe he should be our captain either.

Salah, another complete legend, and one I think could be doing with leaving behind with the Klopp days now. You'll never get an acceptable level out of him again given who he is and what he's done, it'll never be enough. I genuinely watched in anguish any time he came near the ball tonight, he's been bang average at best this season and doesn't even turn up for the big games anymore.

Nunez, fucking dire. Not making any judgement on his future as I think he'll still be here but crap, total fucking crap tonight, and shown a proper centre forward performance by a fucking fanny who can barely get on the pitch half the time. Danns not coming on at half time another stinker from the manager.

Fair play to Diaz for a great effort tonight. If he had the natural ability Salah had he'd be the best winger of his day, unfortunately he doesn't which is a huge problem in itself but can't blame him tonight. Mac Allister always brings the effort too, must be hard playing in the midfield of this league by yourself.

The problems just seem to be mounting up then. It's definitely time for a change and big decisions are to be made beyond the manager. I think the season was done after Atalanta anyway so not much more you can say really. Not arsed about any of the results now just hope Klopp is given the love for the Wolves game. Fuck off Liverpool.

Agree with most of this, especially Sakah. He's gone from "I hope he gets the ball" to "Don't let him get the ball". He has been atrocious since the AFCON and that's not judging on his level, that's for the average league winger. I hope we still can get a decent figure for him.

I thought Diaz was brilliant. Robbo too.

Nuρez didn't have the best of games but generally thought he did okay. He'll come even better next season.

[stockdam]

All eyes on Arnie now:

If we offer Feyenoord what they think he is worth. I don't think we really know what's happening.

[Johnny Aldridge]

I'm a bit confused mate maybe I'm not following.

I said that 115 charges city and VAR are the things that have tired him out. I think he knows that the game is rigged and he doesn't want to play any more.

I quoted the wrong post brother, I meant to reply to who you were replying to!
Apologies.

[traustibm]

Nunez must have some kind of a blip in his brain. Not all synapses firing as they should. Such weird decisions he makes when having chances. Bizzare and weird the way he takes them.

[decosabute]

I do think the "we'd have taken this at the start of the season" thing is a bit of a canard. While it's true to some degree, the fact that we've been the architects of our own downfall so often has been beyond frustrating. Why do we always start so poorly? Why do we give away so many gilt edged chances at the start of games? Surely, that at least is something we could have fixed by now. Yes, it's a new team but we could have done so much more this season. It's such a terrible shame to see it all end this way

The "we'd have taken this" thing is simultaneously sort of true, and yet an absolute load of shite. Who cares what we'd have taken before the season started - The more important point is, we were in position, we had the league there for us to win and we went off a cliff. Dress it up however you want, it's still extremely disappointing.

And that isn't entitled to say either - I'm happy to support the club whether we're midtable, top 4 or absolutely elite. But to collapse as we have in recent weeks, with so many important players going to shit (several of whom can't use tiredness as an excuse) is just a gut punch.

[telekon]

Nunez must have some kind of a blip in his brain. Not all synapses firing as they should. Such weird decisions he makes when having chances. Bizzare and weird the way he takes them.

Reckon some of this can be trained? The one where he blasted it when he could've placed it in? Or is this ingrained - that he goes for power (to get a deflection at worst)?

[Sharado]

People shouldn't sugarcoat this. It's a landmark awful performance and result.

Bang on. The last time we lost there was under hodgson and tonight was honestly that bad. I can't believe I was watching a Jόrgen klopp team out there they were devoid of anything meaningful.

[traustibm]

Reckon some of this can be trained. The one where he blasted it when he could've placed it in? Or is this ingrained - that he goes for power (to get a deflection at worst)?

I reckon the coaches have been working hard trying to fix his finishes. But when you’re in these situations with adrenaline pumped, with a split second to make a decision, it just seems like he panics.

[Eeyore]

The "we'd have taken this" thing is simultaneously sort of true, and yet an absolute load of shite. Who cares what we'd have taken before the season started - The more important point is, we were in position, we had the league there for us to win and we went off a cliff. Dress it up however you want, it's still extremely disappointing.

And that isn't entitled to say either - I'm happy to support the club whether we're midtable, top 4 or absolutely elite. But to collapse as we have in recent weeks, with so many important players going to shit (several of whom can't use tiredness as an excuse) is just a gut punch.

We have fallen off a cliff after the driving force Klopp said he was burnt out.

[Kopenhagen]

If we offer Feyenoord what they think he is worth. I don't think we really know what's happening.

Have we forgotten about the classic Edwards derisory lowball opening bid already? He hasn't been gone that long.

Arnie will sign.

[stoa]

Spot on.

People need to stop making excuses with the ref and whatever else. That was a disgrace from so many this evening. Letting down the greatest manager of our modern era. I'm infuriated and fuming at our players in a way I've rarely been at any time under any manager. Just an absolutely colossal disappointment. Some look finished, some were never good enough to begin with, some are just bizarrely hitting the worst form of their whole liverpool careers at the worst possible time.

People shouldn't sugarcoat this. It's a landmark awful performance and result. And I couldn't give a shit about Everton. Regardless of who the opposition were, it's simply one of the saddest, most deflating nights I can remember supporting this great club.

I feel so, so sorry for Klopp. Deserved so much better from a multitude of players.

If you feel sorry about Klopp you shouldn't just dismiss calling out bad refereeing performances as an excuse for a loss, because multiple things can be true at the sane time. We have been shite today and in a lot of other recent games. Fully agree with that. That doesn't change the fact that at least every other week in the league we not only face the opposition team, but also refs who are giving us fuck all and everything to our opponents. We were 10-1 on fouls at one point during the match (or even the first half) and that's just scandalous after what we've all seen with our own eyes. Klopp seemed to think that way as well and he shouldn't have had to put up with shite like that all the time he was here.

[Macc77]

Eh?! I do. He said he is tired and I explained what I think has drained his energy over and above what one might expect.

I think it's simpler than you are making out. Managing Liverpool is a tough tough job, we're an emotional club and being the man at the top of it all (from a footballing side) will wear anybody down. He never thought he'd be here this long initially, he puts his heart and soul into his job and he (like alot of people who get closer to 60 and have financial security) has decided that his own health, his wellbeing, his desire to live a normal life etc is more important than doing this stressful and demanding job for another year, two years, etc. City, PGMOL etc will have been irritants, but the man loves this club, he is walking away because he doesn't feel able to do this job anymore, it's as simple as that IMO.

[kasperoff]

If you can't see how the ref influenced that first half withe the number of stupid soft free kicks he gave them,  there is nothing to say. He gave them momentum. Yes, we should have handled it better, but when a referee o gives one team as many free kicks as he gave them, it was inevitable it would affect our game plan.

We were making half arsed tackles because we started slowly and weren't up for the fight. We did absolutely nothing to help ourselves and gave the ref every opportunity to award those fouls. We've been robbed by ref's blatantly this season, but today was not one of them. It was all on us. It's a desperate reach to try blame the ref today.

Whilst we are on it, we're terrible at gamesmanship. Everton played us like a fiddle today and took every opportunity to fall to the ground. I know it's not how Klopp likes to play, but we can't piss and moan when it happens to us. It's part of the game, unfortunately. We've been done over a few times like that over the years. Particularly in Europe.

[traustibm]

I love our Virgil but his half arsed jogs when defending look silly when it’s not working.

[Eeyore]

If you feel sorry about Klopp you shouldn't just dismiss calling out bad refereeing performances as an excuse for a loss, because multiple things can be true at the time. We have been shite today and in a lot of other recent games. Fully agree with that. That doesn't change the fact that at least every other week in the league we not only face the opposition team, but also refs who are giving us fuck all and everything to our opponents. We were 10-1 on fouls at one point during the match (or even the first half) and that's just scandalous after what we've all seen with our own eyes. Klopp seemed to think that way as well and he shouldn't have had to put up with shite like that all the time he was here.

Yep 10-1 on fouls whilst Neville was saying we were being bullied and Neville revelling in a 80's challenge by Tarkowski.

We attacked they went to ground and flew into challenges. We breathed on them and they went to ground and won a free kick.

[stockdam]

Reckon some of this can be trained? The one where he blasted it when he could've placed it in? Or is this ingrained - that he goes for power (to get a deflection at worst)?

None of us really know as we haven't played at the same level. My guess is that it is instinctive and there's not a lot that can be done to improve it. Yes you can try to coach it in but when a top class defender is tight to you it is down to making the right decision, having a lot of skill and getting the shot away before the defender gets the block or tackle in. I'm not sure that I know of any strikers whose finishing got better under coaching. There have been some raw youngsters who got better but Nunez is quite a mature player. Andy Cole had an awful year when he couldn't score but I don't think it was good coaching that turned it around. He was a good player who was just going through a poor spell.

[Eeyore]

We were making half arsed tackles because we started slowly and weren't up for the fight. We did absolutely nothing to help ourselves and gave the ref every opportunity to award those fouls. We've been robbed by ref's blatantly this season, but today was not one of them. It was all on us. It's a desperate reach to try blame the ref today.

Whilst we are on it, we're terrible at gamesmanship. Everton played us like a fiddle today and took every opportunity to fall to the ground. I know it's not how Klopp likes to play, but we can't piss and moan when it happens to us. It's part of the game, unfortunately. We've been done over a few times like that over the years. Particularly in Europe.

You are basically blaming us for not cheating?

[kasperoff]

Bang on. The last time we lost there was under hodgson and tonight was honestly that bad. I can't believe I was watching a Jόrgen klopp team out there they were devoid of anything meaningful.

As bad as this was, I'm not sure this is even the worst performance this month, to be honest.

[Eeyore]

None of us really know as we haven't played at the same level. My guess is that it is instinctive and there's not a lot that can be done to improve it. Yes you can try to coach it in but when a top class defender is tight to you it is down to making the right decision, having a lot of skill and getting the shot away before the defender gets the block or tackle in. I'm not sure that I know of any strikers who it looks like their finishing got better under coaching. Andy Cole had an awful year when he couldn't score but I don't think it was good coaching that turned it around. He was a good player who was just going through a poor spell.

Look at how many goals our forwards have scored this season.

[decosabute]

If you feel sorry about Klopp you shouldn't just dismiss calling out bad refereeing performances as an excuse for a loss, because multiple things can be true at the sane time. We have been shite today and in a lot of other recent games. Fully agree with that. That doesn't change the fact that at least every other week in the league we not only face the opposition team, but also refs who are giving us fuck all and everything to our opponents. We were 10-1 on fouls at one point during the match (or even the first half) and that's just scandalous after what we've all seen with our own eyes. Klopp seemed to think that way as well and he shouldn't have had to put up with shite like that all the time he was here.

Mate, I was roaring at Madley in the pub. He was shit, no arguments. But that isn't why we lost tonight. It's not why weve been atrocious (Fulham-aside) for weeks.

The players don't deserve excuses getting made for them. They've felt sorry for themselves. They haven't competed. Darwin and Salah have been a joke lately.

The refereeing is shit, but that doesn't excuse how the players have let the manager down. Some of them have been shameful compared to the levels they'd be expected to hit.

[Eeyore]

As bad as this was, I'm not sure this is even the worst performance this month, to be honest.

xG 1.09 v 2.06.

Yeah we were shocking!

[stockdam]

Look at how many goals our forwards have scored this season.

We are talking about Nunez and whether he can be coached into scoring more. I don't think coaching would do this and I don't believe that Salah's ability came directly from coaching. If so then it would be fairly easy to take a decent striker and turn them into a top class one and we know that isn't true. There are a lot of players who look good at the lower levels or when they are young but the EPL doesn't give you time to think and it's, in my opinion, instinctive.

[touchlineban]

That's that then.

No luck before or during the game either.  Now I know what it's like to watch teams down the bottom of the league.

Terrible in the first half.  Better in the second due to Diaz's energy.  Still couldn't hit the corner of the goal with any of our chances.  Getting chances, not finishing.  Old rope.

Everton made use of what they've got.  Don't give us a second on the ball after we passed the half way line or launch it to the lump up top and profit from knock downs and free kicks.  No need for 80+% possession there.

Referee, laughable.  Gueye got up laughing at being awarded a free kick that led to our shambolic defending that somehow ended up in the ball being in the back of our net.  You could only laugh at that point.

I'm convinced the ONLY way we're getting anything from these clowns is if/when we're taken over by some middle-eastern country.  Otherwise, the shit show from these clowns is going to continue and the scumbags in the Manchester and London media mafia won't mention it or show it.  We're getting fucked over and we don't have a voice, anywhere in the media fighting in our corner.  All grim, fucking grim.

[Eeyore]

Mate, I was roaring at Madley in the pub. He was shit, no arguments. But that isn't why we lost tonight. It's not why weve been atrocious (Fulham-aside) for weeks.

The players don't deserve excuses getting made for them. They've felt sorry for themselves. They haven't competed. Darwin and Salah have been a joke lately.

The refereeing is shit, but that doesn't excuse how the players have let the manager down. Some of them have been shameful compared to the levels they'd be expected to hit.

How the fuck can you compete when Tarkowski is making 80's challenges and then the next second our players are being penalised for breathing on a player?

[decosabute]

We were making half arsed tackles because we started slowly and weren't up for the fight. We did absolutely nothing to help ourselves and gave the ref every opportunity to award those fouls. We've been robbed by ref's blatantly this season, but today was not one of them. It was all on us. It's a desperate reach to try blame the ref today.

Whilst we are on it, we're terrible at gamesmanship. Everton played us like a fiddle today and took every opportunity to fall to the ground. I know it's not how Klopp likes to play, but we can't piss and moan when it happens to us. It's part of the game, unfortunately. We've been done over a few times like that over the years. Particularly in Europe.

100% agree. Madley is a shite ref and Coote is a joke on VAR, but they didn't cost us that game at all. From the very start we looked mentally nowhere near it, our finishing was abysmal and our game management was shocking. Deserved every bit of it.

[Eeyore]

We are talking about Nunez and whether he can be coached into scoring more. I don't think coaching would do this and I don't believe that Salah's ability came directly from coaching. If so then it would be fairly easy to take a decent striker and turn them into a top class one and we know that isn't true. There are a lot of players who look good at the lower levels or when they are young but the EPL doesn't give you time to think and it's, in my opinion, instinctive.

Fuck me Nunez scored 26 goals in 28 League games for Benfica.

[ChrisSOSred]

When do the 2024/25 fixtures come out

[decosabute]

How the fuck can you compete when Tarkowski is making 80's challenges and then the next second our players are being penalised for breathing on a player?

Do you really think we lost tonight cos of the ref?

Do you really think we've been poor and had virtually zero control of any game since the middle of March cos of refs?

The refereeing is crap, but come on - get real.

[Eeyore]

100% agree. Madley is a shite ref and Coote is a joke on VAR, but they didn't cost us that game at all. From the very start we looked mentally nowhere near it, our finishing was abysmal and our game management was shocking. Deserved every bit of it.

For the first 30 minutes Madley made it impossible for us to gegenpress and gave them 8 freekicks to load the box.

Tha it's pretty much impossible to compete against.

[stockdam]

Fuck me Nunez scored 26 goals in 28 League games for Benfica.

Which is a different standard and league. I said that some players will look very good at certain levels but the EPL is faster and gives you much less time. i also said earlier that our style may not suit the way Nunez plays best. Nobody is saying that he is a bad player (far from it) but his finishing at times can be poor.

[killer-heels]

xG 1.09 v 2.06.

Yeah we were shocking!

Come on Al, we were bad.

But yes we manage to fashion good chances still but guess what, we fucked it up again. How many times do we continue this trend? Maybe we just have to admit that our attackers are not ruthless enough to win a league?