Topic: Charlie Adam - Sensible Discussion.

[lorenzo23]

Something else that has disappeared without trace has been his inciseveness at dead ball situations; corners, free kicks, penalties. That was another reason for our interest. The fact that has gone West confirms to me Charlie is struggling to come to terms with the enormity of his new found situation and why I believe he can and will improve over time as he feels part of something. He seems to have integrated well enough but is easily pushed aside by others in dead ball situations. Pre season he seemed pretty robust; I vaguely remember a penalty incident where he took control but lately he's always hovering around free kicks but not taking them nearly as much as he should for me.

Thats cause he been poor, start of season Adam took everything once and while Downing would take corner but was all Adam.

[Eeyore]

Unbelievable the amount of grief Adam receives here on RAWK , especially considering the money we spent on him and the ROI we've had till now.  He has done way better than the likes of Downing and Henderson , by a long fucking distance.

I guess he is just not very likable 

I think he is really likeable, comes across brilliantly in interviews, works hard, is a good influence in the dressing room and doesn't cause a moments trouble off the pitch. I just think he needs to cut out the Hollywood stuff and give it quickly and early. As it goes I think Downing and Henderson had pretty decent starts to their Liverpool careers and looked far better when Lucas was in the side and giving them the ball early.

Downing especially when he has started on the left has been totally starved of possession because Charlie has a tendency to keep hold of the ball too long and then when he gets shut it is usually a long crossfield pass out to the other side.  Downing always looks better when you give him plenty of the ball especially if you give it to him early and he can get his marker back pedalling.

[royhendo]

What is unarguable Roy is that Charlie proved unable to halt a pretty amazing slide and that we remained unshakeably keen to buy him.

Well, he had his moments in the second half of last season, didn't he? He has his moments, Charlie.

Anyway, to cheaper, younger, better players!

[vivabobbygraham]

Thats cause he been poor, start of season Adam took everything once and while Downing would take corner but was all Adam.

That's my point. Someone with the undoubted skill Charlie has at set pieces to lose that ability is about confidence. Maybe, as someone else posted, he believed his own hype. Does he now believe he is shite, listening, as he must, to the criticisms both on and off the pitch? He's trying too hard, as Al alludes to in his excellent post early on. When he gets the balance right and his head right, he'll be okay.

[Mutton Geoff]

On and on we go meanwhile the under 18's are 3-0 up, I have decided to treat this thread with the contempt it deserves , we have posters pitching tents in here to deliver inane comments about the player with the most assists, so he gets flak for doing his job better than many other players so far this season, and ironically the same people have a go at Andy for not doing his job! So dammed if you do dammed if you dont, by 5-00 though it will be Downing's turn.

[lorenzo23]

That's my point. Someone with the undoubted skill Charlie has at set pieces to lose that ability is about confidence. Maybe, as someone else posted, he believed his own hype. Does he now believe he is shite, listening, as he must, to the criticisms both on and off the pitch? He's trying too hard, as Al alludes to in his excellent post early on. When he gets the balance right and his head right, he'll be okay.

Guess Ranger fan might be able answer this how did Charlie respond when the fans was getting on his back?? I personally feel is he dropped for number of games mite give him wake up call, cause at the moment seem's like he gets picked regardless of form. He maybe should take a back seat to set piece play and let others do all that take him self out the frame of being criticized, gain big more form and then put his hand up to take set plays.

[MassDriver]

I think he is really likeable, comes across brilliantly in interviews, works hard, is a good influence in the dressing room and doesn't cause a moments trouble off the pitch. I just think he needs to cut out the Hollywood stuff and give it quickly and early. As it goes I think Downing and Henderson had pretty decent starts to their Liverpool careers and looked far better when Lucas was in the side and giving them the ball early.

Downing especially when he has started on the left has been totally starved of possession because Charlie has a tendency to keep hold of the ball too long and then when he gets shut it is usually a long crossfield pass out to the other side.  Downing always looks better when you give him plenty of the ball especially if you give it to him early and he can get his marker back pedalling.

Cannot disagree with any of that mate.  Agree that he lacks appreciation of tempo , if ya know what I mean.  That's what separates the great players from the merely good I guess, the knowledge of when exactly to hold on to the ball and slow it down and when to release it in one or two touches.

[vivabobbygraham]

On and on we go meanwhile the under 18's are 3-0 up, I have decided to treat this thread with the contempt it deserves , we have posters pitching tents in here to deliver inane comments about the player with the most assists, so he gets flak for doing his job better than many other players so far this season, and ironically the same people have a go at Andy for not doing his job! So dammed if you do dammed if you dont, by 5-00 though it will be Downing's turn.

tbf Geoff it's only a couple. At the mo, there is some good stuff being posted

[lorenzo23]

On and on we go meanwhile the under 18's are 3-0 up, I have decided to treat this thread with the contempt it deserves , we have posters pitching tents in here to deliver inane comments about the player with the most assists, so he gets flak for doing his job better than many other players so far this season, and ironically the same people have a go at Andy for not doing his job! So dammed if you do dammed if you dont, by 5-00 though it will be Downing's turn.

Why do you keep posting then mate if it pisses you off so much??

[Eeyore]

Even though York didn't quite mean what your saying i can see where some would read his post and then try read too much into, considering he one there best player (Gerrard like) only complete fool would link Adam to there relegation.

Why not if you demand the ball all the time even when things are going for you then it must come with a responsibility. You cannot take all the accolades when things are going brilliantly and then turn around when things go wrong and dodge the criticism. The smartest footballers demand the ball when they are hot and keep it simple when they are not.

If a tennis players first serve isn't working the smart ones back off a little and go for placement until the confidence returns the last thing you should do is try hitting it harder and harder hoping that one fantastic Ace will make everything right. At times Charlie does the latter hoping that one assist or fantastic pass will get the crowd off his back and get his confidence back, sadly far too often it ends up as Charlie getting more and more erratic and trying to do more and more himself.

[Mutton Geoff]

Well, he had his moments in the second half of last season, didn't he? He has his moments, Charlie.

Anyway, to cheaper, younger, better players!

Roy Spurs away springs to mind for Blackpool he was like a man possessed it took a late lucky goal by Defoe to stop what would have been a good win, maybe at the pool he was the main man and here perhaps he feels a bit overshadowed I reckon he needs more confidence not less. Let's hope he scores today!

[Eeyore]

On and on we go meanwhile the under 18's are 3-0 up, I have decided to treat this thread with the contempt it deserves , we have posters pitching tents in here to deliver inane comments about the player with the most assists, so he gets flak for doing his job better than many other players so far this season, and ironically the same people have a go at Andy for not doing his job! So dammed if you do dammed if you dont, by 5-00 though it will be Downing's turn.

3-1 now yeh F@**ng Jinx

[Rohit]

Roy Spurs away springs to mind for Blackpool he was like a man possessed it took a late lucky goal by Defoe to stop what would have been a good win, maybe at the pool he was the main man and here perhaps he feels a bit overshadowed I reckon he needs more confidence not less. Let's hope he scores today!

Wasn't that the game where he should been sent off for injurying bales ankle?

 If he starts today though I hope he does well and just keeps it simple rather than force it.

[lorenzo23]

Why not if you demand the ball all the time even when things are going for you then it must come with a responsibility. You cannot take all the accolades when things are going brilliantly and then turn around when things go wrong and dodge the criticism. The smartest footballers demand the ball when they are hot and keep it simple when they are not.

If a tennis players first serve isn't working the smart ones back off a little and go for placement until the confidence returns the last thing you should do is try hitting it harder and harder hoping that one fantastic Ace will make everything right. At times Charlie does the latter hoping that one assist or fantastic pass will get the crowd off his back and get his confidence back, sadly far too often it ends up as Charlie getting more and more erratic and trying to do more and more himself.

Even though that 100% true is it not down to manager to take Adam out that situation if he not delivering? Not to mention everyone said Blackpool play too open they will try play like Brazil you score one we try score 2. To be honest i can't really say if Adam play was huge down fall on his team as i hardly watch them, just would be surprised considering he was one there top 3 players last year. Which would lead you to think management needs to change something when down fall starts and as Holloway said Adam needs to do 75% simple stuff so maybe if Adam didn't take noticed of this he should took him out team?

[Eeyore]

Roy Spurs away springs to mind for Blackpool he was like a man possessed it took a late lucky goal by Defoe to stop what would have been a good win, maybe at the pool he was the main man and here perhaps he feels a bit overshadowed I reckon he needs more confidence not less. Let's hope he scores today!

The key word is Away, when there was very little pressure and Charlie could go out and express himself. Blackpool had the tenth best away form and the 19th best home form. Where was Charlie when Blackpool had a glut of home games at the back end of the season when it really counted.

This season has been similar Liverpool have the 5th best away form and the tenth best home form. Charlie gets two assists away from home at Wolves in the big open spaces but hasn't been able to perform at home often struggling to even threaten teams from set pieces. Wasn't that what Charlie was bought for to help us break down teams at home and for his Ł10m corners.

Instead of helping us to break teams down his slowing of the play has made it far worse.

[Mutton Geoff]

Why do you keep posting then mate if it pisses you off so much??

Does it  annoy you ?

sensible comments i like bobby and al/ Roy however you have spent all your first week in here surely your point is made!

[Yorkykopite]

On and on we go ..... I have decided to treat this thread with the contempt it deserves

What, by popping in every two minutes to post your latest 'thought'?

[lorenzo23]

Does it  annoy you ?

sensible comments i like bobby and al/ Roy however you have spent all your first week in here surely your point is made!

I could not care who you like mate! i not here for cyber buddies 

Nope don't affect me at all! its just question if you dislike it then not sure why you keep posting! and unless your a mod and telling me where to post then 

[Mutton Geoff]

The key word is Away, when there was very little pressure and Charlie could go out and express himself. Blackpool had the tenth best away form and the 19th best home form. Where was Charlie when Blackpool had a glut of home games at the back end of the season when it really counted.

This season has been similar Liverpool have the 5th best away form and the tenth best home form. Charlie gets two assists away from home at Wolves in the big open spaces but hasn't been able to perform at home often struggling to even threaten teams from set pieces. Wasn't that what Charlie was bought for to help us break down teams at home and for his Ł10m corners.

Instead of helping us to break teams down his slowing of the play has made it far worse.

So play him more often away than home if that suits his game, seriously though he was the go to guy at Blackpool for set pieces but here Stevie takes a lot as does Agger, Downing/ Stevie and Adam take corners this is why I feel he has lost confidence and maybe the pressure of playing for a big club might be getting to him especially as being 26 this may be his only  and last shot at playing for a top club in the prem and Europe! For me he needs to relax mentally at the moment he is playing with the fear of making mistakes !

[vivabobbygraham]

Guess Ranger fan might be able answer this how did Charlie respond when the fans was getting on his back?? I personally feel is he dropped for number of games mite give him wake up call, cause at the moment seem's like he gets picked regardless of form. He maybe should take a back seat to set piece play and let others do all that take him self out the frame of being criticized, gain big more form and then put his hand up to take set plays.

I expect your scenario anytime soon, maybe even today, if he continues to struggle. Kenny might try and play him through it. We'll know soon enough.

[Mutton Geoff]

Lorenzo I like that they post sense, you are a direct opposite of that, sorry you misunderstood the obvious point. By the way I was a mod









And then I became a hippie.

[lorenzo23]

I expect your scenario anytime soon, maybe even today, if he continues to struggle. Kenny might try and play him through it. We'll know soon enough.

I would assume depending how game goes he mite come off for Gerrard so in back of his head already could be thinking A) Do i play it simple keep things ticking B) Do i try be master stroke in middle and control game.

[Yorkykopite]

That is the thing though Yorky if you are playing for Blackpool and man for man you are probably of a lower standard than the opposition then a show pony talisman can sometimes be the way to go. At Liverpool he is usually playing in a side that man for man is better than the opposition, so instead of trying show how good he is Adam should be giving the ball to the likes of Suarez, Gerrard, Downing and Bellamy et al as efficiently and as quickly as he can.

That for me is the massive difference between Alonso and Adam with Alonso he drove the ball low and hard with no spin out wide like an exocet missile as a means to an end, it was to get his team mate that vital second of extra time and space by surprising the opposition. I get the impression that Charlie looks at the long balls as a desperate attempt to justify his inclusion in the side. Alonso specialised in the right pass the most efficient pass if it was a simple ten yard pass that gave a team mate space he would do it in an instant.

Charlie would rather stop turn a hundred and 180 degrees giftwrap the pass up in gawdy paper, stick a bow and a set of neon lights on it and then shout look how clever I am. It is what happens after the pass that matters not how good it looks.

That's interesting. I've not been a fan of the long diagonal ball - even the accurate long diagonal ball - for many years. Unless you're playing against hopeless defences the ball simply spends too long in the air to disturb them. Also the lad receiving the long pass often finds himself isolated from the rest of the team. So even when Charlie's got his range and the 40-yarder finds Downing's foot, the result is a team that's too stretched to take advantage.

You mention Alonso (I vaguely remember him). The great thing about Alonso wasn't his long-range passing. It was the pace with which he shifted the ball along and his understanding that a 5-yard pass could actually take more opponents out of the game than a 40-yarder (not least because the 5-yard pass keeps the deliverer still in the game). Yes, his long passes were often things of beauty because of the incredible collection of spin he possessed in his armoury. But the long passes which really hurt were not the cross-field ones but the exocets (as you say) that were driven right down the centre of the park.

Charlie's long ball game is medieval by comparison. A real throwback.

[lorenzo23]

Lorenzo I like that they post sense, you are a direct opposite of that, sorry you misunderstood the obvious point. By the way I was a mod









And then I became a hippie.

Says the guy that posting utter shit? while others are talking there point of view? But if it does something for you mate then keep on posting, its your cyber world after all

Most importantly just hit the ignore that simple

[vivabobbygraham]

I would assume depending how game goes he mite come off for Gerrard so in back of his head already could be thinking A) Do i play it simple keep things ticking B) Do i try be master stroke in middle and control game.

Yeah, just seen team. Tight three in midfield with balance which is what I like. I really hope he does the business today. No Cattermole snapping at his heels all game. Keep it simple, Charlie, boy!!!!!!

[BazC]

Can't make my mind up about Adam. Saw that he has 2+11, which is very good for a CM. We can't complain about that. Review his defensive game and it's not so good. For a CM that's quite important. Adam is not the typical attacking midfielder, I think he seems most comfortable when he has plenty of time and the game in front of him. That's when he can pick a forward pass. Have him run with the ball and he tends to lose it. So the deeper role is best for him. But then we need to pair him with a more defensive player. Not quite sure what to make of it.

See, I don't think it is that important. If he's contributing in attack (which he does when he's not tasked with the defensive side of things), then what's the problem? Look at Lampard and Scholes at their best- sure Adam's not at their level, but they couldn't really defend either could they?

I still think it's down to Kenny to use him in situations where he doesn't need to do the defensive work - because when he gets involved in the attack, he can be very good. The other thing that tends to happen when he plays deeper is that he looks for those hollywood balls. Comparisons with alonso always used to make me laugh because Charlie's not even half as consistent, but he shouldn't be playing that deep for more reasons than just his inability to defend.

He's been poor since Lucas has been out, but it's interesting how his productivity before that has suddenly been forgotten. I had to point out his goals/assists the other day and people just flat out denied it even though it was there in black and white. Look at Charlie objectively and I do think he has a place in the team.

[Eeyore]

So play him more often away than home if that suits his game, seriously though he was the go to guy at Blackpool for set pieces but here Stevie takes a lot as does Agger, Downing/ Stevie and Adam take corners this is why I feel he has lost confidence and maybe the pressure of playing for a big club might be getting to him especially as being 26 this may be his only  and last shot at playing for a top club in the prem and Europe! For me he needs to relax mentally at the moment he is playing with the fear of making mistakes !

Isn't that the story of Charlie's entire career though he struggled under the spotlight at Rangers then re-found his form whilst on loan at the likes of St Mirren and Ross County only to struggle again at Rangers. At Blackpool he was a revelation during the second half of the promotion season and the first half of the Premiership season only to struggle when the spotlight came on him at the business end of the season.

At Liverpool he is always going to be under the spotlight and he might not have the resolve to cope with it.

[lorenzo23]

Yeah, just seen team. Tight three in midfield with balance which is what I like. I really hope he does the business today. No Cattermole snapping at his heels all game. Keep it simple, Charlie, boy!!!!!!

Huge plus no Cattermole be loads of space, 3 man midfield i hoping he most advance one with Henderson and Spearing behind him then we should see Adam at his best.

[vivabobbygraham]

Isn't that the story of Charlie's entire career though he struggled under the spotlight at Rangers then re-found his form whilst on loan at the likes of St Mirren and Ross County only to struggle again at Rangers. At Blackpool he was a revelation during the second half of the promotion season and the first half of the Premiership season only to struggle when the spotlight came on him at the business end of the season.

At Liverpool he is always going to be under the spotlight and he might not have the resolve to cope with it.

Yeah, one minute he thinks he's the dog's bollocks, the next, its faeces. Maybe he's a manic depressive. A trick cyclist needed maybe?

[Mutton Geoff]

Isn't that the story of Charlie's entire career though he struggled under the spotlight at Rangers then re-found his form whilst on loan at the likes of St Mirren and Ross County only to struggle again at Rangers. At Blackpool he was a revelation during the second half of the promotion season and the first half of the Premiership season only to struggle when the spotlight came on him at the business end of the season.

At Liverpool he is always going to be under the spotlight and he might not have the resolve to cope with it.

That fair enough Al and if he can't handle it then he will go back to the big fish small pond status, but all the sniping at him at the games inspired in part by threads like this are not going to help him improve!

[Eeyore]

That fair enough Al and if he can't handle it then he will go back to the big fish small pond status, but all the sniping at him at the games inspired in part by threads like this are not going to help him improve!

Or maybe it was all the people like Fordy who went massively overboard about his abilities that ended up setting him up for a fall who haven't helped him. It's the internet everything gets polarised his set pieces aren't things of wonder and he's not a shite player as always the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

For me he's a decent squad player who could do with more time on the training pitch learning about what it takes to play for a big side and less time in the middle. I think Kenny has been forced to play him far too much and hopefully when everyone is fit he can take a lesser role and regain his confidence and work on his decision making.

[Mutton Geoff]

Discounting Fordy as you say one end of the spectrum posters like me have been saying he is a squad player from the start, but then to make a dubious point he gets compared to alonso  who is on a different planet skill wise! I have never said he anything but a squad player playing maybe more games than Kenny planned for at the start of the season! Anyway let's hope he has a blinder today!

[rossipersempre]

Well, he had his moments in the second half of last season, didn't he? He has his moments, Charlie.

Like that horrific assault on Gareth Bale's ankle last May? I remember thinking that, along with his woefully inconsistent form after not getting his move in January, that might be a watershed moment in our relentless pursuit of him. Sadly not.

[rossipersempre]

Isn't that the story of Charlie's entire career though he struggled under the spotlight at Rangers then re-found his form whilst on loan at the likes of St Mirren and Ross County only to struggle again at Rangers. At Blackpool he was a revelation during the second half of the promotion season and the first half of the Premiership season only to struggle when the spotlight came on him at the business end of the season.

At Liverpool he is always going to be under the spotlight and he might not have the resolve to cope with it.

Hard to fault that theory, but it leads to an obvious conclusion doesn't it?

[Shanks1965]

I hardly think forums like this give rise to people criticising him at the match. There are how many posting and reading here whereas there's more than 40,000 in the ground. I think peoiple make up their minds from what they see either at the game or on tv rather than what they read in places like this. Footballers were getting criticised at football matches a long time before the internet was a twinkle in someone's eye whereas the pub and lads talking about the game has been around for a lot longer.

[Mutton Geoff]

I hardly think forums like this give rise to people criticising him at the match. There are how many posting and reading here whereas there's more than 40,000 in the ground. I think peoiple make up their minds from what they see either at the game or on tv rather than what they read in places like this. Footballers were getting criticised at football matches a long time before the internet was a twinkle in someone's eye whereas the pub and lads talking about the game has been around for a lot longer.

Really how about when Lucas got boos after months of negative stuff, if you think the media can put ideas in a persons head why wouldn't a massive forum like this, people will be at games with preconceptions of players and then see what they want to see I find and act upon it.

[Gnurglan]

See, I don't think it is that important. If he's contributing in attack (which he does when he's not tasked with the defensive side of things), then what's the problem? Look at Lampard and Scholes at their best- sure Adam's not at their level, but they couldn't really defend either could they?

I still think it's down to Kenny to use him in situations where he doesn't need to do the defensive work - because when he gets involved in the attack, he can be very good. The other thing that tends to happen when he plays deeper is that he looks for those hollywood balls. Comparisons with alonso always used to make me laugh because Charlie's not even half as consistent, but he shouldn't be playing that deep for more reasons than just his inability to defend.

He's been poor since Lucas has been out, but it's interesting how his productivity before that has suddenly been forgotten. I had to point out his goals/assists the other day and people just flat out denied it even though it was there in black and white. Look at Charlie objectively and I do think he has a place in the team.

He has a place in the squad, not sure about the team, at least not when everyone is fit. Because when we play him, we need Lucas in. And that means, with Gerrard in, that we go 4-2-3-1/4-3-3. So only room for one striker. I think Adam in the team dictates a lot of how the rest of the team is set up.

But we can't deny that he has a real impact in attack. He's our most productive player this season and that's a strong case for playing him.