Topic: Labour Thread * No Gaza *

[So… Howard Philips]

I do think a combination of apathy & voter i.d helped with the low turnout in a lot of areas not just in Liverpool, voter i.d should be scrapped.

Was there any evidence of voter fraud to support the introduction of voter identification at the polling booth?

Postal ballots are a different kettle of fish however;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26520836
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/apr/05/uk.localgovernment

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Jess Phillips MP

https://xcancel.com/LBC/status/1809910681983959081

Fucking scum as well posting in the comments. Absolute fucking inbred fucking c*nts. Fuck you all. Twats.

[JP!]

Starmer has called for a ceasefire in conversations with Netanyahu - apologies if that skirts the Gaza line for this thread but just reporting the news rather than giving an opinion.

[oldfordie]

I think it's more down to tactical voting. If you are trying to unseat a Labour MP, you are not even going to being to try it in Liverpool. Riverside (and most of Liverpool) are the safest Labour seats in the country. You could put a cardboard cut-out of the labour sign and Liverpool would vote for it. So you had more freedom to make a vote for one of the other parties (Green in Riverside, L8 and Lark Lane way canvas very well).

Should also mention that turnout in Riverside was 45% so voter apathy was strong as well.

I understand what you mean but I wouldn't call it tactical voting, Tactical voting is about Labour voters understanding they can't win in that particular seat and voting for the party who had the best chance to beat the Torys which was the Lib Dems and vice versa, Lib Dems voting Labour.   there was no reason for these voters to vote tactically.  they voted green because they never wanted to vote Labour, voter apathy was stong as you say but there was more to it in Kim Johnsons seat.
The point is all the s... thrown at Labour hurt all Labour MPs no matter what their stance,

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I understand what you mean but I wouldn't call it tactical voting, Tactical voting is about Labour voters understanding they can't win in that particular seat and voting for the party who had the best chance to beat the Torys which was the Lib Dems and vica versa, Lib Dems voting Labour.   there was no reason for these voters to vote tactically.  they voted green because they never wanted to vote Labour, voter apathy was stong as you say but there was more to it in Kim Johnsons seat.
The point is all the s... thrown at Labour hurt all Labour MPs no matter what their stance,

Yep. I had muted a few people on my threads. They are all banned now. Had enough of the c*nts. Most of them really wanted the Tories to win to 'prove a point'

Fucking shithouses.

[Red-Soldier]

I've got big concerns about the impacts on nature, this quest for building, will have.

[Yorkykopite]

Rachel Reeves - very impressive in outlining the Treasury's plans this morning. But not a single mention of Peppa Pig. Why?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I've got big concerns about the impacts on nature, this quest for building, will have.

With the commas, I read that in the style of William Shatner.

[oldfordie]

Yep. I had muted a few people on my threads. They are all banned now. Had enough of the c*nts. Most of them really wanted the Tories to win to 'prove a point'

Fucking shithouses.

Yep, I think this tells us a hell of a lot on why Labour have struggled to win power for decades.
Voters have been told theres no difference between Labour and the Torys, all the same, nothing ever changes., it doesn't even make sense when you consider all the damage the Torys have done over the last 14yrs.
Is there 1 person in this country who actually believes nothing has changed since the Torys took over back in 2010,  it's absurd, totally detached from realty.
These stats have shown the there all the same apathetic public make no distinction on whether a Labour politician is center left or left wing. they been convinced all politicians are the same so refuse to vote Labour which makes Labours fight to win power far harder.
The left have actually campaigned to stop people voting for them.


 

[thaddeus]

In other news, Keith Vaz is an idiot.

Quote
disgraced former Labour MP Keith Vaz has announced he is standing for election in his old seat, Leicester East, for a new local party.

Vaz will be taking on Labour, as well as his successor Claudia Webbe, who is standing as an independent candidate after being expelled from Labour over a conviction for harassment in 2021.

Vaz was the MP for Leicester East for 32 years, from 1987-2019, before he stepped down as a candidate after being caught in a tabloid sting offering to acquire cocaine for sex workers.

In a leaflet distributed to voters in the seat this week, Vaz said: “It was the greatest privilege of my life to serve as MP for Leicester East for over three decades. I absolutely love Leicester.

“Today, I am shocked with what I see. Despite so many opportunities, Leicester is unrecognisable, and on the edge of bankruptcy.

“Many people have urged me to stand again. I have decided to do so and accept the nomination of Leicester’s newest party, One Leicester, to be their candidate for one more term. Although I have always held Labour values, I promise to put Leicester first and party politics second.”

Vaz told the Guardian last year that he would not stand as an MP again, saying: “That ship has sailed.”

Because the best way you can help Leicester is by trying to split the Labour vote, right Keith?

As Red Beret predicted that was a spectacular own goal.  Far from putting "Leicester first" all that Vaz (and Webbe) achieved was to aid the only Tory gain in the whole country and leave Leicester East with an MP that has zero chance of making any impact.

Conservative - Shivani Raja- 14,526
Labour - Rajesh Agrawal - 10,100
Liberal Democrats- Zuffar Haq- 6,329
Independent - Claudia Webbe - 5,532
One Leicester - Keith Vaz - 3,681
Reform UK - Raj Solanki - 2,611
Green - Mags Lewis - 2,143

The Lab/Lib tactical voting didn't play out well either.  The left and centre-left picked up at least 60% of the vote (maybe more, I don't know much about the other three independent candidates) but they've ended up with a Tory.  The Tories actually lost vote share but gained the seat.

[west_london_red]

I've got big concerns about the impacts on nature, this quest for building, will have.

No one saw this coming

[Andy @ Allerton!]

No one saw this coming

He should have channeled his inner Yoda


Big concerns I have on this quest for building, nature impacted I feel.

[oldfordie]

I've got big concerns about the impacts on nature, this quest for building, will have.

Why, I have they built a nature reserve on the dock road.

[Schmidt]

This is from the BBC:

The government will review greenbelt boundaries to prioritise brownfield and "grey belt" land to meet housebuilding targets

[Andy @ Allerton!]

This is from the BBC:

The government will review greenbelt boundaries to prioritise brownfield and "grey belt" land to meet housebuilding targets

Sounds sensible enough

[Dr. Beaker]

Fancy having a government with a work ethic eh. Whatever next?

[Red-Soldier]

Why, I have they built a nature reserve on the dock road.

Because the Green Belt is there for a reason and has been getting smaller, and smaller.

The so-called 'Grey Belt', is still Green Belt land.

Brownfield sites are also hotbeds for reptiles and (often) rare insects.

[Red-Soldier]

This is from the BBC:

The government will review greenbelt boundaries to prioritise brownfield and "grey belt" land to meet housebuilding targets

Because the Green Belt is there for a reason and has been getting smaller, and smaller.

The so-called 'Grey Belt', is still Green Belt land.

Brownfield sites are also hotbeds for reptiles and (often) rare insects.

The different aggregates (stone and rubble), can make brownfield sites really fascinating places.

You have areas of acidic and alkaline, which means you can often gets plants associated with chalk (and acid) grassland, in the same vicinity.

I've seen more reptiles on brownfield sites than I have on nature reserves.  That may be because they are smaller spaces and fenced in, but there's quite a bit of information out there, saying how good brownfield sites, are.

And, of course, many of our current nature reserves were former industrial (quarry) sites.

[oldfordie]

Because the Green Belt is there for a reason and has been getting smaller, and smaller.

The so-called 'Grey Belt', is still Green Belt land.

Brownfield sites are also hotbeds for reptiles and (often) rare insects.

Am talking about Liverpool. didn't they say they want to redevelop the dockland area.

[The G in Gerrard]

This is from the BBC:

The government will review greenbelt boundaries to prioritise brownfield and "grey belt" land to meet housebuilding targets

For First time buyers or in general?

[So… Howard Philips]

For First time buyers or in general?

Hopefully a high quota of social housing for those starting out who haven’t the means for a mortgage.

[TSC]

I've got big concerns about the impacts on nature, this quest for building, will have.

Valid concerns, although the circa 1.3m on housing waiting lists will inform priorities.

[Red-Soldier]

Am talking about Liverpool. didn't they say they want to redevelop the dockland area.

Just checked.

There a coastal nature reserve (Special Area of Conservation) that's adjacent to Talacre, Connah's Quay, West Kirby and Wallasey-New Brighton.

And most of the estuary near JL Airport and Birkenhead, is a Special Protected Area (for the bird populations).

[oldfordie]

Just checked.

There a coastal nature reserve (Special Area of Conservation) that's adjacent to Talacre, Connah's Quay, West Kirby and Wallasey-New Brighton.

? On the other side of the water, that area never even crossed my mind.

[Red-Soldier]

? On the other side of the water, that area never even crossed my mind.

And most of the water near JL Airport and Birkenhead, is a Special Protected Area (for the bird populations).

It more or less runs all the way a long the coast to Southport and beyond.

[oldfordie]

And most of the water near JL Airport and Birkenhead, is a Special Protected Area (for the bird populations).

It more or less runs all the way a long the coast to Southport and beyond.

So they don't build on special protected areas, been years since I checked the area out but Liverpool docks ran from the Dingle right up to Bootle at least, was it 8 miles.? something like that.

[Dr. Beaker]

So they don't build on special protected areas, been years since I checked the area out but Liverpool docks ran from the Dingle right up to Bootle at least, was it 8 miles.? something like that.

I seem to remember there being eleven miles of docks.

[Red-Soldier]

So they don't build on special protected areas, been years since I checked the area out but Liverpool docks ran from the Dingle right up to Bootle at least, was it 8 miles.? something like that.

It's not quite as simple as that.  They are (technically) protected areas and have to be managed in a certain way.  But, lots of development does happen next to them.

They do have to be taken into account and mitigation measures, are often proposed.

I live near a harbour and one side is heavily developed.

[oldfordie]

I seem to remember there being eleven miles of docks.

You might be right Doc. the 8 mile figure just from memory.
I was talking to a few younger relatives who went to see the Boys of the Blackstuff play a few months back, they raved on it, so told them the TV series is on Iplayer. I mentioned the Albert Dock is shown before it was redeveloped, what a depressing place that area was back then, deserted, what a waste of land in such a important area,. look at it now,

[So… Howard Philips]

You might be right Doc. the 8 mile figure just from memory.
I was talking to a few younger relatives who went to see the Boys of the Blackstuff play a few months back, they raved on it, so told them the TV series is on Iplayer. I mentioned the Albert Dock is shown before it was redeveloped, what a depressing place that area was back then, deserted, what a waste of land in such a important area,. look at it now,

I can remember going around the Albert Dock in the mid sixties and it was derelict then.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

And most of the water near JL Airport and Birkenhead, is a Special Protected Area (for the bird populations).

It more or less runs all the way a long the coast to Southport and beyond.

Birkenhead veers off at the end and heads towards Wales mate

[Red-Soldier]

Birkenhead veers off at the end and heads towards Wales mate

I'm talking about the water, mate.  All the coastline, more or less, is a Special Protection Area, around there.

[Lisan Al Gaib]

It's not quite as simple as that.  They are (technically) protected areas and have to be managed in a certain way.  But, lots of development does happen next to them.

They do have to be taken into account and mitigation measures, are often proposed.

I live near a harbour and one side is heavily developed.

I don't think it'll mean there'll be carte blanche to build on areas like this and I think mitigation measures will still be used. I think this is more for those grey and brownfield sites that aren't special protection areas that currently aren't being build on and just left derelict because they are technically in green belt land.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I'm talking about the water, mate.  All the coastline, more or less, is a Special Protection Area, around there.

Well that's the Mersey. It opens out into Liverpool Bay, but by the time you get to Southport, that's the Irish Sea.

[oldfordie]

I can remember going around the Albert Dock in the mid sixties and it was derelict then.

That early, no wonder it was looking so run down when the filmed Boys from the Blackstuff,  I know the Dingle docks were still going strong in the 60s, Shell oil refinery, the docks on the Dock road was turned into a weekend market as well. interesting place, everything built from metal for a reason, no fires.

[Lisan Al Gaib]

Starmer has called for a ceasefire in conversations with Netanyahu - apologies if that skirts the Gaza line for this thread but just reporting the news rather than giving an opinion.

Again apologies if this breaches the Gaza line but I don't think you'll find too many disagreeing or arguing over other developments on this as well. On this call Starmer also urged the need for an immediate increase in the volume of aid reaching civilians and that it was important to ensure conditions for a two-state solution were in place long term, he then called Palestinion Authority President Abbas and said that a Palestinian state was an undeniable right of the Palestinians and the UK would recognise a Palestinian state during the process of setting one up.

Today Labour are expected to drop the legal challenge the Tories put in about the arrest warrant from the ICC to Netanyahu and are reviewing the legal advice on arms sales and the funding of UNRWA. I'm not sure too many people will disagree with that.

[The G in Gerrard]

Hopefully a high quota of social housing for those starting out who haven’t the means for a mortgage.

Ah ok. They haven't specified what it's for yet then? Or it'll be a mix I'm assuming.

[classycarra]

Because the Green Belt is there for a reason and has been getting smaller, and smaller.

sorry but you're completely wrong here - this is literally the opposite of the truth. it's vastly increased in size since it's creation

here are latest facts:

- in 1979 it covered 7,215km squared.
- as of March 2023 it covered 16,385km squared.
- 93.1% of that 2023 figure is entirely undeveloped.
- 6.8% of the latest figure has been developed, mostly for roads and trains/other transport infrastructure.
- 0.3% of the 16,385km squared of Green Belt land is now residential buildings.

[source: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn00934/ ]

The so-called 'Grey Belt', is still Green Belt land.

Brownfield sites are also hotbeds for reptiles and (often) rare insects.

would it be correct to assume then that your personal policy position would be that disused petrol stations within green belt land should just stay there disused instead of the land being utilised for housing or other purposes?



this bit is separate to the question to Red Soldier about their concerns and what they'd prefer instead:

like with organisations who cynically coopy the word green (i'm thinking green party, greenpeace here) to launder their intentions a little bit, the green in Green Belt causes very common and understandable confusion. people assume that its all protected environment in the country - it's not. the Lake District - pretty famous green patch and protected environment - isn't Green Belt land.

unlike those dodgy organisations, this one is just a legacy of a term created over half a century ago. the intent of Green Belt land is to prevent cities from sprawling into surrounding areas (including cities/towns, not just land). NIMBYs like the majority of Greens and Lib Dems who know this, tend to cynically avoid sharing it with people they lobby.

Speaking of, I see the Greens mask already slipped on their 'progressive' energy policies - their co-leader is already opposing wind power turbines in suffolk. they couldn't even keep up their ploy for two days!

[Red-Soldier]

Hopefully a high quota of social housing for those starting out who haven’t the means for a mortgage.

Their manifesto said 'the biggest affordable and social housing contruction, in a generation' but, didn't have any numbers, at all.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Their manifesto said 'the biggest affordable and social housing contruction, in a generation' but, didn't have any numbers, at all.

Twelvety houses. HA HA HA HA HA!