Author Topic: Labour Thread * No Gaza *  (Read 127205 times)

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3560 on: May 24, 2024, 11:28:20 am »
Will there be a dilution of the Labour/Corbyn vote which could let anyone else get a sniff?  It'd only be between Corbyn and the prospective Labour candidate, I imagine the Lib Dem would be too far back but you never know I suppose.

Nah it will be Corbyn first, Labour 2nd.

Offline PatriotScouser

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3561 on: May 24, 2024, 11:50:37 am »
The Green Party will be panicking as a large proportion of their campaigners will be headed to Islington North  :D

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3562 on: May 24, 2024, 12:03:14 pm »
Nah it will be Corbyn first, Labour 2nd.
He’s a very well liked local MP of long standing. I can see why the constituents would vote for him.
He will win.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3563 on: May 24, 2024, 12:39:18 pm »
He’s a very well liked local MP of long standing. I can see why the constituents would vote for him.
He will win.

Thats a myth, he isnt as well liked or as prominent as people think he is and I say that as its the constituency I have spent more of my life in.

However, the familiarity and the sheer amount of people power Momentum will throw at it should get him over the line.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3564 on: May 24, 2024, 01:02:16 pm »
I really don't think its guaranteed he'll win. I've already seen comments from people in the constituency saying "oh does this mean he might actually knock on doors for the first time in decades now that he doesn't have the Labour name under him?"

It'll be close but my money would go on Labour keeping the seat if I were a betting man

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3565 on: May 24, 2024, 01:06:53 pm »
I really don't think its guaranteed he'll win. I've already seen comments from people in the constituency saying "oh does this mean he might actually knock on doors for the first time in decades now that he doesn't have the Labour name under him?"

It'll be close but my money would go on Labour keeping the seat if I were a betting man

Yep I have read stuff about him being a good constituency MP a bit odd, he isnt that prominent. To be fair its an issue with nearly all London MP’s as everything is generally planned and funded well.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3566 on: May 24, 2024, 01:24:02 pm »
Thats a myth, he isnt as well liked or as prominent as people think he is and I say that as its the constituency I have spent more of my life in.

However, the familiarity and the sheer amount of people power Momentum will throw at it should get him over the line.
I’ve based my opinion on his popularity on people I know who live in his constituency. Even if they weren’t fans of ‘his labour’ they still think he was an excellent mp for them. I reckon he wins. Either way it’s not important to the bigger picture.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3567 on: May 24, 2024, 02:14:28 pm »
He’s a very well liked local MP of long standing. I can see why the constituents would vote for him.
He will win.

I've never understood that, nothing but a gobby, spoilt little rich boy, who fell into life as a career politician. What has the guy ever done of note ?   
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3568 on: May 24, 2024, 02:23:20 pm »
I've never understood that, nothing but a gobby, spoilt little rich boy, who fell into life as a career politician. What has the guy ever done of note ?   

It's the wrong question. It's whether he has been a good local MP or not. I've heard many people, who may not like his ideology, say that he's served his constituency well. He's been there for several decades now too. I agree with Tepid. I think he'll win.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3569 on: May 24, 2024, 02:36:14 pm »
It should be the first question.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3570 on: May 24, 2024, 02:53:18 pm »
I've never understood that, nothing but a gobby, spoilt little rich boy, who fell into life as a career politician. What has the guy ever done of note ?   
I think by any measure he’s been a very very effective constituency MP
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3571 on: May 24, 2024, 05:30:42 pm »
There are quite a few people who don't think Corbyn will win, but what they're basing it on I'm not sure.
I don't agree, he'd go to Legoland. Bye.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3572 on: May 24, 2024, 05:33:52 pm »
There are quite a few people who don't think Corbyn will win, but what they're basing it on I'm not sure.

The only thing that may stop Corbyn winning - and I understand that he has been an effective constituency MP - is Gurning Galloway turning up to “support” him.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3573 on: May 24, 2024, 05:54:14 pm »
There are quite a few people who don't think Corbyn will win, but what they're basing it on I'm not sure.

People tend to vote along party lines and not for the person on their ballot and according to Wikipedia you have to go back to 2006 for the last person to be elected as an independent MP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_minor_party_and_independent_MPs_elected

So its really, really hard for anyone to win as an independent against the main parties and its not guaranteed that every one of the 34,603 people who voted for him in 2019 will do the same now that he doesn't have a Labour rosette next to his name.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3574 on: May 28, 2024, 01:46:30 pm »
The more I hear from Rachel Reeves the less inclined I am to vote for Labour.  When push comes to shove then of course I will if it 'deprives' the country of a Tory MP but it will primarily be a tactical vote.

I appreciate that Labour under Starmer and Reeves are multiple steps better than the Tories in pretty much every area but that's a very low bar.  With each passing interview it sounds like our public services are going to have to stay on their knees and hope that at some indeterminate point in the future there's enough growth to provide some much needed extra support.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3575 on: May 28, 2024, 01:55:22 pm »
The more I hear from Rachel Reeves the less inclined I am to vote for Labour.  When push comes to shove then of course I will if it 'deprives' the country of a Tory MP but it will primarily be a tactical vote.

I appreciate that Labour under Starmer and Reeves are multiple steps better than the Tories in pretty much every area but that's a very low bar.  With each passing interview it sounds like our public services are going to have to stay on their knees and hope that at some indeterminate point in the future there's enough growth to provide some much needed extra support.

Pretty much where I am. But - people need to just hold their noses there. Nothing worse than people like the clowns on the left over the pond who didn't bother voting Clinton because she was "almost as bad" as Trump...

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3576 on: May 28, 2024, 02:24:46 pm »
The more I hear from Rachel Reeves the less inclined I am to vote for Labour.  When push comes to shove then of course I will if it 'deprives' the country of a Tory MP but it will primarily be a tactical vote.

I appreciate that Labour under Starmer and Reeves are multiple steps better than the Tories in pretty much every area but that's a very low bar.  With each passing interview it sounds like our public services are going to have to stay on their knees and hope that at some indeterminate point in the future there's enough growth to provide some much needed extra support.

Yeah.  It's not great, but still an easy choice to make.  It's hard to generate the warmth and hope you should be feeling, by seeing the back of these bastards, when you hear Reeves (and some others) speak.

The country needs investment across the board, it's that simple. 
« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 02:40:24 pm by Red-Soldier »

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3577 on: May 28, 2024, 02:25:11 pm »
The more I hear from Rachel Reeves the less inclined I am to vote for Labour.  When push comes to shove then of course I will if it 'deprives' the country of a Tory MP but it will primarily be a tactical vote.

I appreciate that Labour under Starmer and Reeves are multiple steps better than the Tories in pretty much every area but that's a very low bar.  With each passing interview it sounds like our public services are going to have to stay on their knees and hope that at some indeterminate point in the future there's enough growth to provide some much needed extra support.
I think Starmers Labour are determined to not make the same mistakes as the past. this is not theory, it's based on history, the problem is down to the public being so easily manipulated by the hard right, people say they want Labour to be a bit more ambitious yet that's all forgotten when the election campaigns kick off again 5-10yrs later, sad realty is the public are so gullible, Torys today are saying Labour will put up taxes and put us in debt, they are already trying to attack them for spending money to improve lives, they only reason they feel confident enough to say this sort of rubbish is because they know many will just believe it without question. many of those same people will be saying they want Labour to do this or that right now.

Nothing will really change until Labour are given the confidence to make that great change without fearing a backlash but as we've seen, we are our own worst enemy, the same mistakes repeated over and over. people want to judge them on flawed economic bulls.. but a bigger more disappointing problem is they want to stick the boot into people who have tried to help them.
The one thing that's always annoyed me about the working class attitude towards Labour, many people are never prepared to give them a break when they do cock up, it happens, people shouldn't shit on people who try to help you if they mess up every now and then.

I think I got these views after decades of being a union member who understand the importance of giving the union support when they asked for it. it's something all those people who banged on about unions over the last few yrs wouldn't  appreciate which is a shame as they would understand why this same attitude would be a game changer if they gave it to Labour . give them this confidence to make change without fearing a backlash and Labour could laugh at the attackers as they know their supporters will back them. imagine Labour with that sort of confidence, they could come in make all the change and not worry about some backlash over overspending blah blah, wishful thinking sadly.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 02:28:48 pm by oldfordie »
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3578 on: May 28, 2024, 03:55:25 pm »
Oh look, she’s not on the take. Want a shock..

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“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3579 on: May 28, 2024, 04:18:33 pm »
Good points you make there oldfordie. I think labour are also very much not pushing forward spending policies that could forseeably lead to problems. Nothing is without risk but they can't afford for the next election to have the tories saying we told you so.
Also the economy is very very fragile right now. And could well get worse. I must admit I don't know what happens if they borrow say enough that borrowing is greater than gdpn, a few tens of billions I think and spend it on the NHS. If the NHS notably improves but there's a massive hole in the finances, where does that leave them?
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3580 on: May 28, 2024, 05:05:38 pm »
I think Starmers Labour are determined to not make the same mistakes as the past. this is not theory, it's based on history, the problem is down to the public being so easily manipulated by the hard right,
Good post mate. And in other words Labour simply don't want to spook people in to worrying.
It's quite simple for me, 1/ vote these c*nts out and get Labour in to power 2/ let Labour get on with scoping the budgets and managing the economy competently.
It's not really any more complicated than that.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3581 on: May 28, 2024, 06:11:27 pm »
Good points you make there oldfordie. I think labour are also very much not pushing forward spending policies that could forseeably lead to problems. Nothing is without risk but they can't afford for the next election to have the tories saying we told you so.
Also the economy is very very fragile right now. And could well get worse. I must admit I don't know what happens if they borrow say enough that borrowing is greater than gdpn, a few tens of billions I think and spend it on the NHS. If the NHS notably improves but there's a massive hole in the finances, where does that leave them?
Thanks Paul, I think they have a impossible short term job Paul, I think the public have to start looking at services linked to the NHS differently, why they were brought in in the first place. they solved problems cheaply. ive always fumed when the Torys have slashed all these Labour policys as they always end up costing the country more while making the problem worse, that will be the first step for Labour, making everything far more efficient. it will actually save the country money while solving problems. to be honest ive been a bit pissed off with the reaction from people who should be focusing on the real problem but being influenced by the hard right media. don't believe it's just ignorant Torys voters who fall for it. Labour left fall for it as well. Labour should be getting some sympathy right now, they are inheriting a nightmare, everything run down to the bone with no money to spend.

The Torys should be facing a angry electorate who should be telling them to piss off every time they attack Labour for having no quick plan to fix it all, that is crazy.
The Torys are too blame for it all, they have no right to attack Labour as they put Labour in this impossible position in the first place, that's as far as I go in the debate, this is not up for debate for me, the Torys are too blame for it all, have some sympathy with Labour who will have to clean the mess up, will it happen, nahh, looks like a Tory MP mocking Labour MPs for having no plan is reasonable.

Good post mate. And in other words Labour simply don't want to spook people in to worrying.
It's quite simple for me, 1/ vote these c*nts out and get Labour in to power 2/ let Labour get on with scoping the budgets and managing the economy competently.
It's not really any more complicated than that.
Ta John, it is simple John, goes without saying to people who have actually gone through this shit before, I wouldn't mind but the Torys are already attacking them over it already.
 I don't think any of this has come off the top of Starmers head, he's been a Labour supporter all his life and he's sick of Labour making it easy for the Torys,  he understands those mistakes, he want's to win for a reason, to actually change how the country thinks, that would be a massive step forward, not ideology, just knowing who your friends and enemies are, very few people look at Labour this way, I have for decades,  I know he said he's a Socialist and that's the box he's in inside Labour but I think he is driven by decency but he's ruthless as well, he has to be to protect Labour from making the same old mistakes.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3582 on: May 28, 2024, 06:43:36 pm »
I like the idea of Starmer being quietly measured and calm when facing the public, but inside he's absolutely seething and eager to repeatedly kick the Tory party in the balls every day for the next six weeks. As Labour leader, he can't show that kind of public contempt, even though the Tories do it quite casually. But deeds are more important than words, and Starmer's looking to hit the Tories where it hurts the most.

I think people really underestimate him, for good or ill.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3583 on: May 28, 2024, 07:18:52 pm »
Looks like Diane Abbott will not be selected by the Labour party for any seats at the next election.

No real surprise. 

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3584 on: May 28, 2024, 07:48:10 pm »
Looks like Diane Abbott will not be selected by the Labour party for any seats at the next election.

No real surprise.

She's just been given the whip back. Rumours going around that this would be in conjunction with her being offered a seat in the Lords in return for her not seeking re-election.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3585 on: May 28, 2024, 08:00:52 pm »
Looks like Diane Abbott will not be selected by the Labour party for any seats at the next election.

No real surprise. 

Starmer’s managed to alienate muslim voters, now time to alienate black voters too?
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3586 on: May 29, 2024, 08:51:17 am »
Starmer’s managed to alienate muslim voters, now time to alienate black voters too?

Because all black voters have the same priorities? And base all their decisions on one MP? Sure.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3587 on: May 29, 2024, 08:53:23 am »
On the actual issue - think the process has been dodgy, but outcome wise - it’s quite clear this version of Labour aren’t going to have truck with MPs who are actively and repeatedly hostile to the leader and repeatedly break protocol. As well as the issue in hand, Abbott was one of those who signed the mad pro-Russia/anti-NATO letters.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3588 on: May 29, 2024, 09:20:52 am »
Streeting in charge of the NHS leaves me feeling very uneasy.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3589 on: May 29, 2024, 09:24:12 am »
Streeting in charge of the NHS leaves me feeling very uneasy.

It's him, or the Tories.  That's the choice.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3590 on: May 29, 2024, 09:24:33 am »
Because all black voters have the same priorities? And base all their decisions on one MP? Sure.

First of all I didn’t say all black voters, nor did I say they would base who they will vote for based on this alone, there are plenty of people who have been alienated by Labour as it is today who still vote for them.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3591 on: May 29, 2024, 09:31:11 am »
The right decision on Abbott, these views have no place within a mainstream party seeking election.

Abbott on Ukraine
https://youtu.be/tEf7rsMEUaE?si=mRLLFJocgi3HIfUy

On Chairman Mao
https://youtu.be/uB4o5n2EGyA?si=Rz_Q_qrILF1R_kd5


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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3592 on: May 29, 2024, 09:36:51 am »
The right decision on Abbott, these views have no place within a mainstream party seeking election.

Abbott on Ukraine
https://youtu.be/tEf7rsMEUaE?si=mRLLFJocgi3HIfUy

On Chairman Mao
https://youtu.be/uB4o5n2EGyA?si=Rz_Q_qrILF1R_kd5

Abbot on Ukraine saying that other Eastern European countries separated peacefully - what was she watching in the 1990s when Serbia were slaughtering 6000 Bosnian men and boys in the ‘peaceful’ dissolution of Yugoslavia?

And how would her political career flourish in Russophile Hungary?

Time for her to step down and let a younger politician step up.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3593 on: May 29, 2024, 09:40:16 am »
It's him, or the Tories.  That's the choice.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3594 on: May 29, 2024, 09:40:25 am »
I'm the opposite the more I hear of Rachel Reeves, the more I like her. The more I trust her with our economy and her sound judgment.

The same with Wes and the NHS. I get the reasons people may not like them both on those two huge matters to us, but for me I see both improving under their stewardship as chancellor and Health Sec, should Labour win.

I think the Shadow front bench team and hopefully the next cabinet is very talented and very smart.

Offline dirkster

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3595 on: May 29, 2024, 09:41:12 am »
Starmer’s managed to alienate muslim voters, now time to alienate black voters too?
She's a liability. Best that she's kept away from the party really.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3596 on: May 29, 2024, 09:42:38 am »
Abbot on Ukraine saying that other Eastern European countries separated peacefully - what was she watching in the 1990s when Serbia were slaughtering 6000 Bosnian men and boys in the ‘peaceful’ dissolution of Yugoslavia?

And how would her political career flourish in Russophile Hungary?

Time for her to step down and let a younger politician step up.
The Bennite left of course deny the many massacres in former Yugoslavia. Which has always blown my mind.

However, despite her political views often being at odds with mine, I pre always found Abbott a likeable character.  I know we’re not supposed to have conflicted opinions about people and it’s either cancel or hero …. But I do..
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Offline Libertine

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3597 on: May 29, 2024, 09:48:26 am »
Abbot on Ukraine saying that other Eastern European countries separated peacefully - what was she watching in the 1990s when Serbia were slaughtering 6000 Bosnian men and boys in the ‘peaceful’ dissolution of Yugoslavia?

Not sure what she was watching, but apparently this was what she was doing:


@JimmySecUK
Diane Abbott also co-founded a pro-Serb lobby group at the height of the Bosnian genocide alongside Radovan Karadzic's advisor Sir Alfred Sherman.


Offline glewis93

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3598 on: May 29, 2024, 09:51:55 am »
I thought Abbott had become a liability anyway but her comments to get her in trouble were outrageous. Despite it being a fantastic achievement being the first black woman elected to parliament, you can't keep someone around on that alone and she certainly hasn't been particularly helpful to Labour in recent times.

A wise move not to let her stand in my opinion, she's had her time.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3599 on: May 29, 2024, 09:53:49 am »
The right decision on Abbott, these views have no place within a mainstream party seeking election.

Abbott on Ukraine
https://youtu.be/tEf7rsMEUaE?si=mRLLFJocgi3HIfUy

On Chairman Mao
https://youtu.be/uB4o5n2EGyA?si=Rz_Q_qrILF1R_kd5



Yes, it's certainly one moron less in the PLP without her. And that's a good thing. I also think she's been around a long time now and it's good someone younger gets the chance in what is a very safe seat for Labour.

They way she was removed is a bit iffy though. Ideally the local party would have de-selected her a few years back for a series of political views which ought to have no place in the Labour Party. I don't think any Labour supporter can honestly say that they've seen Diane Abbott appear on a TV screen without thinking "Shit. Car crash coming".
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