Author Topic: Labour Thread * No Gaza *  (Read 216985 times)

Online oldfordie

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3520 on: May 18, 2024, 10:15:53 am »
I'd prefer a hung parliament if it means forcing LAbour into PR. Does that make me a total c*nt?
How would that affect the number of MPs representing Scotland ?

Some of the concerns I had with PR over the last few years have actually become realty now.
We would have a Free Palestine party,  who knows who would be leader, who knows if they would be Charlatans, George Galloway could be leader.

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You can tell his dad was a toolmaker. That’s an impressive cabinet he’s put together..

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3521 on: May 18, 2024, 10:25:54 am »
How would that affect the number of MPs representing Scotland ?

Some of the concerns I had with PR over the last few years have actually become realty now.
We would have a Free Palestine party,  who knows who would be leader, who knows if they would be Charlatans, George Galloway could be leader.

Support Israel party

Support Ukraine party.

True Left party

Galloway is a one trick pony, the taps into Muslim issues, the last time (batley and Spen)  was centred around inclusive sex education, some kids have 2 daddies etc.

He isnt an evergreen politicians

As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Elmo!

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3522 on: May 18, 2024, 10:26:54 am »
How would that affect the number of MPs representing Scotland ?

Some of the concerns I had with PR over the last few years have actually become realty now.
We would have a Free Palestine party,  who knows who would be leader, who knows if they would be Charlatans, George Galloway could be leader.

Support Israel party

Support Ukraine party.

True Left party

So the concerns you have about PR, are coming about under a non-PR system, the FPTP system you support?

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3523 on: May 18, 2024, 10:49:32 am »
I'd prefer a hung parliament if it means forcing LAbour into PR. Does that make me a total c*nt?

No it makes you normal.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3524 on: May 18, 2024, 10:49:59 am »
So the concerns you have about PR, are coming about under a non-PR system, the FPTP system you support?
The biggest concern I have is we don't learn the lessons of the past, the problems we had after the EU Referendum, I would be ok with PR as a trial if we had the chance to reconsider say 10yrs later, everyone should support this as nobody knows what we will be left with under PR. would the people of Scotland be ok with only 10-15 MPs or whatever or would they scream more representation only to be met with howls of how many votes do you want on this, respect democracy.
 There  no perfect system, if the argument is no wasted vote then I prefer AV. been covered why so lets not go down that road again. I haven't read the Owen Jones article, don't intend too either but did he mention the right to consider, he doesn't know what we will be left with either, the mistake is assuming we will be left with MPs who aren't far right radicals. radicals come in many forms and many are Charlatans who wind people up. PR would be a fast lane into a nice well paid job.

  I could of added more partys but it would bring controversy but it would still happen under PR.
You can tell his dad was a toolmaker. That’s an impressive cabinet he’s put together..

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3525 on: May 18, 2024, 03:28:58 pm »
The biggest concern I have is we don't learn the lessons of the past, the problems we had after the EU Referendum, I would be ok with PR as a trial if we had the chance to reconsider say 10yrs later, everyone should support this as nobody knows what we will be left with under PR. would the people of Scotland be ok with only 10-15 MPs or whatever or would they scream more representation only to be met with howls of how many votes do you want on this, respect democracy.
 There  no perfect system, if the argument is no wasted vote then I prefer AV. been covered why so lets not go down that road again. I haven't read the Owen Jones article, don't intend too either but did he mention the right to consider, he doesn't know what we will be left with either, the mistake is assuming we will be left with MPs who aren't far right radicals. radicals come in many forms and many are Charlatans who wind people up. PR would be a fast lane into a nice well paid job.

  I could of added more partys but it would bring controversy but it would still happen under PR.
As a proportion of the UK population (assuming a total of 650 MPs), Scotland would have 53 MPs. Though, if they would be designated as Scottish would depend upon the precise system of PR.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3526 on: May 18, 2024, 03:42:21 pm »
The biggest concern I have is we don't learn the lessons of the past, the problems we had after the EU Referendum, I would be ok with PR as a trial if we had the chance to reconsider say 10yrs later, everyone should support this as nobody knows what we will be left with under PR. would the people of Scotland be ok with only 10-15 MPs or whatever or would they scream more representation only to be met with howls of how many votes do you want on this, respect democracy.
 There  no perfect system, if the argument is no wasted vote then I prefer AV. been covered why so lets not go down that road again. I haven't read the Owen Jones article, don't intend too either but did he mention the right to consider, he doesn't know what we will be left with either, the mistake is assuming we will be left with MPs who aren't far right radicals. radicals come in many forms and many are Charlatans who wind people up. PR would be a fast lane into a nice well paid job.

  I could of added more partys but it would bring controversy but it would still happen under PR.

Are you conflating Scotland with the SNP? Why would Scotland only have 10-15 MPs?

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3527 on: May 18, 2024, 05:55:39 pm »
Are you conflating Scotland with the SNP? Why would Scotland only have 10-15 MPs?
No. my mistake, maths way off.

 I can only see PR working regionally. Constituency's will become bigger but represented by more MPs, I was using this larger constituency's figure forgetting the constituency will have more MPs.
You can tell his dad was a toolmaker. That’s an impressive cabinet he’s put together..

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3528 on: May 19, 2024, 08:58:24 pm »
Were things 'better' from an electoral sense when the Lib dems were relevant. Ie there was a third, mainstream, stable party that stopped it being such a 2 horse race?
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3529 on: May 19, 2024, 09:13:53 pm »
Were things 'better' from an electoral sense when the Lib dems were relevant. Ie there was a third, mainstream, stable party that stopped it being such a 2 horse race?

The Lib Dems have never been relevant. The only time in recent history was the coalition, and things were definitely not better.

The centre left vote has been split between Labour and the Liberals/Lib Dems for a century; it's the main reason the Tories have been in power so often and for so long. The only context where the Lib Dems are relevant is as a tactical voting option to hurt the Tories.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3530 on: May 19, 2024, 09:45:34 pm »
The Lib Dems have never been relevant. The only time in recent history was the coalition, and things were definitely not better.

The centre left vote has been split between Labour and the Liberals/Lib Dems for a century; it's the main reason the Tories have been in power so often and for so long. The only context where the Lib Dems are relevant is as a tactical voting option to hurt the Tories.
Thanks rb.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3531 on: May 19, 2024, 10:22:56 pm »
Starmer cooking this morning was very good PR.  Certainly when compared to the absolute horror show that was Sunak on Loose women
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3532 on: May 20, 2024, 02:23:09 am »
Starmer cooking this morning was very good PR.  Certainly when compared to the absolute horror show that was Sunak on Loose women

I’ll sleep better tonight for knowing that, thank you.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3533 on: May 20, 2024, 03:28:17 am »
^ ha ha  ;D

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3534 on: May 20, 2024, 07:11:00 am »
I’ll sleep better tonight for knowing that, thank you.
;D

“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3535 on: May 20, 2024, 07:26:53 am »
What’s the first priority for labour? So much is genuinely broken.

Universities for instance. Tuition fees went up to fund them. Then, (for obvious reasons) tuition fees never went up again so university funding is horribly tight. So 5 years ago they let universities take in far more foreign students to make up the gap (they might pay £30-40k a year).
And now? They’re going to stop most of the overseas students just for some optics.  And many many universities will collapse. And they will respond by saying the degrees were worthless anyway (they weren’t).

Then courts.  I was at a high court on Saturday (work not misdemeanour!) got talking to some of them and it’s just terrible, utterly terrible

And there’s so many other areas.

It’s utter wilful neglect.  Where do you start?
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3536 on: May 20, 2024, 07:38:37 am »
What’s the first priority for labour? So much is genuinely broken.

Universities for instance. Tuition fees went up to fund them. Then, (for obvious reasons) tuition fees never went up again so university funding is horribly tight. So 5 years ago they let universities take in far more foreign students to make up the gap (they might pay £30-40k a year).
And now? They’re going to stop most of the overseas students just for some optics.  And many many universities will collapse. And they will respond by saying the degrees were worthless anyway (they weren’t).

Then courts.  I was at a high court on Saturday (work not misdemeanour!) got talking to some of them and it’s just terrible, utterly terrible

And there’s so many other areas.

It’s utter wilful neglect.  Where do you start?

Hang the current Tory cabinet? Thats where I would start.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3537 on: May 20, 2024, 04:42:13 pm »
They’re going to stop most of the overseas students just for some optics. 

I didn't know this.  We are sliding down the world scale, so taking the foreign money where we can makes sense.
I love a good analogy, but I can't come up with one for this insanity.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3538 on: May 20, 2024, 04:54:48 pm »
I didn't know this.  We are sliding down the world scale, so taking the foreign money where we can makes sense.
I love a good analogy, but I can't come up with one for this insanity.
there are quite a lot of foreign students.  So, to try to rapidly cut the immigration number, they want to stop this.  This porch is that many universities will go bump.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline cornishscouser92

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3539 on: May 20, 2024, 05:40:53 pm »
Scottish Westminster Voting Intention: (YouGov)

LAB: 39% (+5)
SNP: 29% (-4)
CON: 12% (-2)
LDM: 8% (=)
GRN: 7% (+3)
RFM: 4% (-1)

Westminster Voting Intention:
(Deltapoll)
LAB: 45% (=)
CON: 23% (-4)
RFM: 12% (+2)
LDM: 10% (+2)
GRN: 5% (-1)
SNP: 3% (+1)

Westminster Voting Intention:
(Opinium)
LAB: 43% (+3)
CON: 25% (+1)
RFM: 10% (-2)
LDM: 9% (-2)
GRN: 7% (=)
SNP: 3% (=)

Opinium is significant, it presumes the don't know's are shy tories and their methodology implies they'll vote Tory at the GE - therefore they have consistently given the smallest Labour leads.



Secondly the YouGov poll produces 39 Labour seats +38 from GE 2019 (see above), combined with Labour regaining Welsh seats, this puts Labour between 240-250 with no swing in England. Therefore, Labour needs a tiny swing in England at the GE should these Wales/Scotland polls be accurate, for a majority.
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Offline cornishscouser92

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3540 on: May 20, 2024, 05:42:20 pm »
The above YouGov Scottish poll sees SNP Westminster leader, Steven Flynn lose his Aberdeen South seat.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3541 on: May 20, 2024, 05:53:55 pm »
The above YouGov Scottish poll sees SNP Westminster leader, Steven Flynn lose his Aberdeen South seat.

Well I'm in his constuency and he's lost my vote. Him pushing the ending of the Bute House Agreement was the final straw for me.

I'm not sure if Labour will get it yet.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3542 on: May 20, 2024, 05:57:24 pm »
Well I'm in his constuency and he's lost my vote. Him pushing the ending of the Bute House Agreement was the final straw for me.

I'm not sure if Labour will get it yet.

Can easily see the Labour Oil & Gas policy costing them Aberdeen.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3543 on: May 20, 2024, 05:59:24 pm »
Can easily see the Labour Oil & Gas policy costing them Aberdeen.

It should be a no brainer to HQ their GB Energy in Aberdeen - they've already said it will be in Scotland. O&G workers know that their industry is dying, they're not idiots. A party offering a genuine plan for transition would win votes.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3544 on: May 20, 2024, 06:07:50 pm »
It should be a no brainer to HQ their GB Energy in Aberdeen - they've already said it will be in Scotland. O&G workers know that their industry is dying, they're not idiots. A party offering a genuine plan for transition would win votes.

They need to flesh out what GB Energy is first. If it’s just an energy reseller similar to Octopus and Ovo and the like then it doesn’t really matter where they locate it because the jobs it creates will be a handful (most jobs probably in a call centre), if it’s actually a producer of energy (using fossil fuels or renewables) then it will be worth it, but it’s too light on details at the moment unless I have missed something.
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Offline Elmo!

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3545 on: May 20, 2024, 06:09:54 pm »
They need to flesh out what GB Energy is first. If it’s just an energy reseller similar to Octopus and Ovo and the like then it doesn’t really matter where they locate it because the jobs it creates will be a handful (most jobs probably in a call centre), if it’s actually a producer of energy (using fossil fuels or renewables) then it will be worth it, but it’s too light on details at the moment unless I have missed something.

That's true but my understanding was they had committed to it being a renewables producer. I'm certainly not interested in a call centre being their transition plan for Aberdeen.  ;D
« Last Edit: May 20, 2024, 06:11:59 pm by Elmo! »

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3546 on: May 20, 2024, 07:27:38 pm »
That's true but my understanding was they had committed to it being a renewables producer. I'm certainly not interested in a call centre being their transition plan for Aberdeen.  ;D

Ok, I haven’t seen that. My worry is that it’s just a sop to people complaining about high energy prices and thinking nationalisation will reduce bills and people not understanding the difference between the suppliers and the producers, although it’s worth mentioning also that every supplier pretty much offers a ‘green’ tariff of 100% renewable electricity including the ones the ones who don’t actually produce any electricity of their own. If they are actually going to build their own wind farms etc then it would definitely benefit Aberdeen or wherever they base the company.

PS you guys do a great job of running call centres, and that coming from an Indian should really mean something! :D
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3547 on: May 20, 2024, 08:12:01 pm »
That's true but my understanding was they had committed to it being a renewables producer. I'm certainly not interested in a call centre being their transition plan for Aberdeen.  ;D
For some reason I’ve got an image of your future career as being a sexline operator in a granite Aberdeen office block

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3548 on: May 20, 2024, 08:35:08 pm »
For some reason I’ve got an image of your future career as being a sexline operator in a granite Aberdeen office block

Whatever turns you on, I won't judge.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3549 on: May 20, 2024, 08:36:49 pm »
Whatever turns you on, I won't judge.
Once worked with a deputy head of English (many years ago).

She got very very drunk at a house  party and told me about how she’d previously worked a sex line operator.  Opened my eyes a bit I can tell you!
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3550 on: May 20, 2024, 08:37:54 pm »
For some reason I’ve got an image of your future career as being a sexline operator in a granite Aberdeen office block



You've seen the capitol building on Union Street 😂
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3551 on: May 20, 2024, 08:38:51 pm »
Once worked with a deputy head of English (many years ago).

She got very very drunk at a house  party and told me about how she’d previously worked a sex line operator.  Opened my eyes a bit I can tell you!
She worked one, or as one? 😁
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3552 on: May 20, 2024, 09:00:13 pm »
She worked one, or as one? 😁
Previously worked as one.  She was extremely attractive too. I’d assumed they were all 50 year old house wifes
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Offline cornishscouser92

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3553 on: May 21, 2024, 08:00:14 am »
Previously worked as one.  She was extremely attractive too. I’d assumed they were all 50 year old house wifes


Have I teleported to an episode of Loose Women?  :D
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3554 on: May 21, 2024, 08:19:14 am »


Have I teleported to an episode of Loose Women?  :D
or Confessions of a Chemistry teacher
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3555 on: May 21, 2024, 10:42:38 am »


Have I teleported to an episode of Loose Women?  :D

;D

or Confessions of a Chemistry teacher

It was a wild night …:lmao
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3556 on: May 21, 2024, 11:13:39 am »
;D

It was a wild night …:lmao


Id love to a fly on the wall if you do go to Manila
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline PatriotScouser

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3557 on: May 24, 2024, 10:21:39 am »
Jezza's gone...........

Looking forward to the Momentum mob campaigning ferociously in Islington North....

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3558 on: May 24, 2024, 10:58:19 am »
Jezza's gone...........

Looking forward to the Momentum mob campaigning ferociously in Islington North....

It could be a good thing he's standing. It will act as a magnet for all the One-Issue people. Rather than muddying the waters in the rest of the country they'll descend on Izzy to save the Saviour.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3559 on: May 24, 2024, 11:04:14 am »
Will there be a dilution of the Labour/Corbyn vote which could let anyone else get a sniff?  It'd only be between Corbyn and the prospective Labour candidate, I imagine the Lib Dem would be too far back but you never know I suppose.
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