Author Topic: Labour Thread * No Gaza *  (Read 166635 times)

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3280 on: May 8, 2024, 02:22:25 pm »
You ate giving too much credit to Truss.

Yeah but she is bad. She is standing down at the next election but what if tomorrow, Rees-Mogg said he wanted to come over?

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3281 on: May 8, 2024, 02:28:35 pm »
Yeah but she is bad. She is standing down at the next election but what if tomorrow, Rees-Mogg said he wanted to come over?

It's why I am nervous about it. I understand the point from before that it puts Labour in an awkward position. But I don't trust these Tories, how do we know they are not setting us up?
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3282 on: May 8, 2024, 02:31:24 pm »
Her natural path of treachery would surely lead her towards somewhere like Reform, but as she's standing down anyway and likely wanted to give Sunak the bloodiest nose possible I suppose crossing the floor to Labour appealed more.

Seems also that maybe Labour felt they might get some benefit with any Labour-leaning potential Reform voters (2019 Red Wall Tories etc) wanting to be convinced it was safe to go back to Labour?
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3283 on: May 8, 2024, 02:31:58 pm »
It's why I am nervous about it. I understand the point from before that it puts Labour in an awkward position. But I don't trust these Tories, how do we know they are not setting us up?

i guess if theres a whiff of trojan horsing, then the whip can be removed.  If they dont vote as ordered, make them independant.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3284 on: May 8, 2024, 02:46:35 pm »
Great response from Count Binface on Twitter

"Natalie Elphicke tried defecting to me first but I said no. Iím taking the trash out, not in. #PMQs"

https://twitter.com/CountBinface/status/1788171554104250494

Some would argue that Count Binface is not a serious politician.
« Last Edit: May 8, 2024, 02:48:08 pm by Red-Soldier »

Offline Sangria

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3285 on: May 8, 2024, 02:49:48 pm »
You ate giving too much credit to Truss.

If the lettuce is still fresh and edible, then Truss definitely deserves some credit.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3286 on: May 8, 2024, 02:53:49 pm »
Listen to the rest is money podcast, with Robert Peston and Steph McGovern - Truss is on it and gets taken apart, it's hilarious.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3287 on: May 8, 2024, 03:15:40 pm »
A finance lawyer (she'll be loaded) joins Labour. Not a good look for the Tory party. It says if she can join/vote Labour anyone can.

Just did a quick check to see where she worked; Stephenson Harwood. Quelle surprise.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3288 on: May 8, 2024, 03:40:01 pm »
A finance lawyer (she'll be loaded) joins Labour. Not a good look for the Tory party. It says if she can join/vote Labour anyone can.

Her being a finance lawyer is one of her more wholesome qualities.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3289 on: May 8, 2024, 04:03:09 pm »
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3290 on: May 8, 2024, 04:18:51 pm »
Labour defends welcoming Natalie Elphicke to party

Quote
The Labour party has defended its decision to welcome former Tory rightwinger Natalie Elphicke into the party.

At a post-PMQs briefing, a spokesperson for Keir Starmer said that they were confident that Elphicke shared their values and that there were no skeletons in her cupboard.

Asked if all Labour MPs were happy to have her as a new colleague, the spokesperson said:

    Itís a sign of the progress that weíve made that people recognise that on some of the key challenges facing the country, the Tories have failed.

    And here is someone who is willing to make the significant step of switching across to Keir Starmerís changed Labour party, and thatís something weíre very happy to see.

When it was put him that Elphicke had in the past been reprimanded for trying to influence a judge with a letter using House of Commons notepaper (in a case involving her ex-husband), the spokesperson said:

    All of those issues have been dealt with previously, both in parliament and in public.

And asked about Elphicke saying in the past that her ex-husband, who was jailed for two years for sexual assualt, was punished for being attractive and attracted to women, the spokesperson said:

Natalie can speak to her own remarks on that and she has spoken extensively about that case, and I donít have anything to add to what she has said on that subject.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3291 on: May 8, 2024, 04:20:02 pm »
Elphicke has not been promised peerage or safe seat, Labour says, but she will get role as housing adviser

Quote
Keir Starmerís spokesperson told reporters that Natalie Elphicke has not been offered a peerage in return for defecting to Labour.

Elphicke is MP for Dover and she will not stand again in the constituency as a candidate for Labour. The constituency is being renamed Dover and Deal and Labour has already selected a candidate, Mike Tapp.

Asked if Elphicke would be standing anywhere else, the spokesperson said:

    Obviously, as a Labour party member, it is open to her to apply for any selection that comes up.

But it is understood that Elphicke has not asked for a seat, and nothing has been offered.

However, Elphicke is due to take on an unpaid role with the party working on housing policy. ďWe have talked about her doing a role building on her experience in housing policy,Ē the spokesperson said.

Elphicke herself address this point in her defection statement. (See 12.04pm.) She said:

    On housing, Rishi Sunakís government is now failing to build the homes we need. Last year saw the largest fall of new housing starts in England in a single year since the credit crunch. The manifesto committed to 300,000 homes next year Ė but only around half that number are now set to be built. Renters and leaseholders have been betrayed as manifesto pledges to end no fault evictions and abolish ground rents have not been delivered as promised.

    The last couple of years have also seen a huge rise in homelessness, in temporary accommodation and rough sleeping Ė with record numbers of children now in temporary accommodation, without a secure roof over their head.

    Meanwhile Labour plan to build the homes we need, help young people onto the housing ladder and care about the vulnerable and homeless. Thatís why Iím honoured to have been asked to work with Keir and the team to help deliver the homes we need.

In a Commons debate last month Elphicke made a strong attack on the renters (reform) bill, saying that it had been made too favourable to landlords. She worked in housing, and on housing policy, before becoming an MP and has published reports on how social housing can be funded.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3292 on: May 8, 2024, 04:41:57 pm »
It's so, so grim. Where is the line going to be drawn? Will Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson be welcomed to the Labour party with open arms? Liz Truss? Jacob Rees-Mogg?
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3293 on: May 8, 2024, 04:45:27 pm »
Last week it said that a couple of Tory MPís were in talks to defect, so we probably will see another make the jump soon.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3294 on: May 8, 2024, 04:45:53 pm »
It's so, so grim. Where is the line going to be drawn? Will Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson be welcomed to the Labour party with open arms? Liz Truss? Jacob Rees-Mogg?
Too far to the right for Rees-Mogg apparently ;D
Quote
Angela Richardson, deputy chair of the Conservative Party, has been telling the BBC's World at One programme she thinks the people of Dover and Deal will be "sorry" and "disappointed" that their MP, Natalie Elphicke, has defected to Labour.

They've felt the impact of illegal immigration and small boat arrivals, she says.

Richardson goes on to say more about the reaction of Conservative MPs.

"I was sat next to Jacob Rees-Mogg on the benches, and he said: 'Natalie is even to the right of me'. I am not sure they're going to be happy bedfellows," Richardson continues.

"Labour has just got its first member of the ERG," she says, referring to the Brexit-backing European Research Group of Conservative MPs.

"It is quite extraordinary so there is a level of bemusement," she adds.

Offline John C

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3295 on: May 8, 2024, 05:08:44 pm »
Listen to the rest is money podcast, with Robert Peston and Steph McGovern - Truss is on it and gets taken apart, it's hilarious.
There seems to be 5 about her, is she just in the 5th mate?

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3296 on: May 8, 2024, 05:19:23 pm »
Great response from Count Binface on Twitter

"Natalie Elphicke tried defecting to me first but I said no. Iím taking the trash out, not in. #PMQs"

https://twitter.com/CountBinface/status/1788171554104250494


Controversial view but I feel that that's a grift that's starting to get a bit old...

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3297 on: May 8, 2024, 05:25:31 pm »
There seems to be 5 about her, is she just in the 5th mate?

Looks like the final two parts, 4 and 5.
:D

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3298 on: May 8, 2024, 05:30:12 pm »
Controversial view but I feel that that's a grift that's starting to get a bit old...

Agreed. The great gag was the costume design in and of itself. Everything which follows has just been bland and weak.
shut up clown. Naby Keita can buy your life and throw it away.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3299 on: May 8, 2024, 05:32:42 pm »
It's so, so grim. Where is the line going to be drawn? Will Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson be welcomed to the Labour party with open arms? Liz Truss? Jacob Rees-Mogg?

Itís comforting in that sheís not standing to be elected again and it pisses off the Tories which is always a good thing but yeah, I donít really have much time for these turncoats, I donít think you can put a high enough price on loyalty and taking responsibility when things donít go your way, not just jump ship when things are looking shit for the Tories, she needs to take responsibility for the state of the country like the rest of them. Also does little to restore peopleís faith in politics or counter the argument that they are all the same, when they literally are the same people going from one party to the other.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3300 on: May 8, 2024, 05:35:09 pm »
If we look only at her record on housing, is she a good fit?
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3301 on: May 8, 2024, 05:35:55 pm »
Itís comforting in that sheís not standing to be elected again and it pisses off the Tories which is always a good thing but yeah, I donít really have much time for these turncoats, I donít think you can put a high enough price on loyalty and taking responsibility when things donít go your way, not just jump ship when things are looking shit for the Tories, she needs to take responsibility for the state of the country like the rest of them. Also does little to restore peopleís faith in politics or counter the argument that they are all the same, when they literally are the same people going from one party to the other.
Yeah. It's not like she made an early call that the party was changing for the worse.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3302 on: May 8, 2024, 05:50:33 pm »
If we look only at her record on housing, is she a good fit?
For me, irrelevant
Look,

1. labour can stick it to the Tories with this. Thatís good.

2. How can the tories attack labour for being Ďfar leftí when their own (not exactly moderate) MPs are joining them.

3. Hiw can the tories accuse labour of being soft on migration when their own MPs are leaving to join labour?

Might be useful to have some experience in housing as labour gets ready for government  too, itís an important area for them.


(I get why so many donít like this, but the pros outweigh the cons.  Hold our noses until the election)
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3303 on: May 8, 2024, 06:00:22 pm »
For me, irrelevant
Look,

1. labour can stick it to the Tories with this. Thatís good.

2. How can the tories attack labour for being Ďfar leftí when their own (not exactly moderate) MPs are joining them.

3. Hiw can the tories accuse labour of being soft on migration when their own MPs are leaving to join labour?

Might be useful to have some experience in housing as labour gets ready for government  too, itís an important area for them.

(I get why so many donít like this, but the pros outweigh the cons.  Hold our noses until the election)
Make Labour appear like viable option for all voters is surely the plan. Natalie Elphicke will be gone come the next election, so there is no problem of her being the Labour candidate come the next election. She's joining the Labour Party without really joining it. It is a signal that irrespective of core political values and allegiances, Labour are the sensible choice for just about anyone come the next election. And only total loons do not understand this.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3304 on: May 8, 2024, 06:01:25 pm »
For me, irrelevant
Look,

1. labour can stick it to the Tories with this. Thatís good.

2. How can the tories attack labour for being Ďfar leftí when their own (not exactly moderate) MPs are joining them.

3. Hiw can the tories accuse labour of being soft on migration when their own MPs are leaving to join labour?

Might be useful to have some experience in housing as labour gets ready for government  too, itís an important area for them.


(I get why so many donít like this, but the pros outweigh the cons.  Hold our noses until the election)

I agree, it's a surprising one to say the least, I suspect this will prove the final nail in Fishy's coffin.

If a right wing MP is leaving to join the opposition then they are totally screwed.

Usually when this happens the party they are leaving call for a resignation and by-election, I suspect that won't happen here!

I don't see what the issue is, it shows the Labour welcome people from all over the political spectrum.

This is the same day that a MP had the whip restored over her remarks on Gaza.

Tick tock Mr Sunak, tick tock....
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3305 on: May 8, 2024, 06:55:53 pm »
I agree, it's a surprising one to say the least, I suspect this will prove the final nail in Fishy's coffin.

If a right wing MP is leaving to join the opposition then they are totally screwed.

Usually when this happens the party they are leaving call for a resignation and by-election, I suspect that won't happen here!

I don't see what the issue is, it shows the Labour welcome people from all over the political spectrum.

This is the same day that a MP had the whip restored over her remarks on Gaza.

Tick tock Mr Sunak, tick tock....

Except the Tories, whether under Sunakís leadership or anyone else, will ALWAYS put Party before country; so no matter how much worse things might get for them, theyíll carry on to the bitter end. Only an unexpected change to their polling in the short term would see an unlikely snap election. Even the expected Autumn election is probably dependent on the USA election. They really are beyond shame, and that certainly applies to Elphicke.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3306 on: May 8, 2024, 08:17:01 pm »
Not too sure if this is the right place but Monty Panesar has had second thoughts about teaming up with Gorgeous George;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68976806

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3307 on: May 8, 2024, 08:25:30 pm »
It's so, so grim. Where is the line going to be drawn? Will Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson be welcomed to the Labour party with open arms? Liz Truss? Jacob Rees-Mogg?
I hope so.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3308 on: May 8, 2024, 08:32:47 pm »
(I get why so many donít like this, but the pros outweigh the cons.  Hold our noses until the election)
i'm not sure they do, but even if they don't it's really not going to be registering much outside people who follow politics extremely closely. had to google to work out which dickhead she was. broadly speaking some will say 'oh another tory trusts labour more for the next election', some local to her constituency who were looking forward to ousting her might be a bit annoyed she's leaving the tories, but then can still vote for the labour candidate come election time anyway. and a tiny portion will focus on it with a fine tooth comb. but really, when it comes down to it, it's pretty meaningless and will be forgotten in a month. she might even be out of a job in two months, who knows.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3309 on: May 8, 2024, 08:49:22 pm »
I see one of the Guardian opinion pieces says Labour have no moral compass for accepting Elphicke into the party. I don't like it anymore than most on here, but it seems there's a lot of knee jerking going on from people who don't seem to see a broader picture in play.

It's clearly a move designed to cause maximum damage to the Tories. Yes there's a chance of blowback towards Labour, but this hardly signals the party is lurching to the right. And it doesn't indicate there is a moral vacuum in the party and that it cares only about winning. Labour are winning regardless, and this defection shouldn't change that.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3310 on: May 8, 2024, 08:50:25 pm »
For me, irrelevant
Look,

1. labour can stick it to the Tories with this. Thatís good.

2. How can the tories attack labour for being Ďfar leftí when their own (not exactly moderate) MPs are joining them.

3. How can the tories accuse labour of being soft on migration when their own MPs are leaving to join labour?

Might be useful to have some experience in housing as labour gets ready for government  too, itís an important area for them.


(I get why so many donít like this, but the pros outweigh the cons.  Hold our noses until the election)

4. It's annoyed Owen Jones
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3311 on: May 8, 2024, 08:56:31 pm »
4. It's annoyed Owen Jones
Donít know, donít care. Heís blocked half of humanity so who would know?  But this should only be to piss the Tories off and win votes and temper Tory arguments in the election. Thatís the only way it works
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3312 on: May 8, 2024, 09:26:23 pm »
It's so, so grim.
;D
Quote
Where is the line going to be drawn? Will Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson be welcomed to the Labour party with open arms? Liz Truss? Jacob Rees-Mogg?
Cameron? Sunak?

Just as likely to happen

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3313 on: May 8, 2024, 10:25:34 pm »

Literally anyone can pay the membership fee and join Labour. I can guarantee that some will hold views far more offensive than anything Elphicke has said. There are a few Labour MPs who have said some appalling things from a far left standpoint. She wonít be an MP after October and the partyís policies remain unchanged, so this is all about hitting the Tories where it hurts and showing Tory voters that even Tory MPs feel comfortable voting Labour.

Trust Owen Jones and the purists to play the part of Sunakís useful idiots. There was similar griping when Alan Howarth crossed the floor before the 97 election except he was parachuted into a safe Labour seat.

I hope Starmer has a string of these defectors to roll out.

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3314 on: May 8, 2024, 10:45:17 pm »
It's so, so grim. Where is the line going to be drawn? Will Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson be welcomed to the Labour party with open arms? Liz Truss? Jacob Rees-Mogg?

Galloway? Frottage?
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3315 on: May 8, 2024, 11:08:29 pm »

It's clearly a move designed to cause maximum damage to the Tories. Yes there's a chance of blowback towards Labour, but this hardly signals the party is lurching to the right. And it doesn't indicate there is a moral vacuum in the party and that it cares only about winning. Labour are winning regardless, and this defection shouldn't change that.

If it doesnít change anything, why do it?
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3316 on: May 8, 2024, 11:56:01 pm »
;D Cameron? Sunak?

Just as likely to happen

This time last week I'd have said Elphicke was about as likely to be allowed into the Labour party as any of those names yet here we are.

Galloway? Frottage?

Quite. If someone like Elphicke is allowed in I can't see any reasonable justification why Galloway or Frottage shouldn't be.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3317 on: May 9, 2024, 12:13:22 am »
4. It's annoyed Owen Jones
i used to think he was relevant but i was wrong , he is an empty vessel
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3318 on: May 9, 2024, 01:58:17 am »
This whole affair is beyond distasteful.

Iíve no time for those Corbynites who snipe from their newspaper columns at Starmerís Labour. Owen Jones in the Guardian and Andrew Fisher in the iPaper consistently do this, and they piss me off no end.

But this episode represents something of a watershed. Do we now accept a notion that Natalie Elphicke has had a Damascene conversion?

Of course not. So the blatant and patent cynicism of her decision should, if weíre being morally consistent, beg the question asked this evening of John McDonnell - if Elphicke is Ďacceptableí why shouldnít the whip be restored to Diane Abbott? Itís a good question. Personally I have little time for either, but of the two, Diane Abbott is preferable by a considerable margin.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #3319 on: May 9, 2024, 04:06:53 am »
4. It's annoyed Owen Jones

Now there is someone whoís a worse person than Elphicke. Absolutely revolting man.