Author Topic: Labour Thread * No Gaza *  (Read 110340 times)

Offline classycarra

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2920 on: March 23, 2024, 11:19:37 am »
How do I find out who my candidate will be for Anglesey?  Or hasn't it been decided yet?

I find it very confusing, with the Welsh Assembly, who is who.
sometimes the quickest route is via an 'Elections' page or something similar on your local council's website.

Found this that lists MPs and AMs for the county councill (not sure if that's your area).
https://democracy.anglesey.gov.uk/mgGeneric.aspx?MD=YourMPMEPandAM&bcr=1&LLL=0

If that is your area, you're in Ynys Môn constituency. Googling 'Ynys Môn election candidates I found a couple of recent headlines saying that Plaid and Labour have selected their candidates. Labour's is Ieuan Môn Williams. Not sure if the current conservative MP has said if she's gonna stand again?

Heres the list of labour candidate selections that have been confirmed around the country, for anyone else wondering the same
https://labourlist.org/2024/03/our-rolling-list-of-labour-parliamentary-candidate-selections/

Offline reddebs

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2921 on: March 23, 2024, 12:25:22 pm »
sometimes the quickest route is via an 'Elections' page or something similar on your local council's website.

Found this that lists MPs and AMs for the county councill (not sure if that's your area).
https://democracy.anglesey.gov.uk/mgGeneric.aspx?MD=YourMPMEPandAM&bcr=1&LLL=0

If that is your area, you're in Ynys Môn constituency. Googling 'Ynys Môn election candidates I found a couple of recent headlines saying that Plaid and Labour have selected their candidates. Labour's is Ieuan Môn Williams. Not sure if the current conservative MP has said if she's gonna stand again?

Heres the list of labour candidate selections that have been confirmed around the country, for anyone else wondering the same
https://labourlist.org/2024/03/our-rolling-list-of-labour-parliamentary-candidate-selections/

Thank you 👍

Offline KillieRed

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2922 on: March 23, 2024, 01:07:07 pm »
Catering to the broader electorate is the route to power.

I am aware of this. I’m more concerned about what comes after.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2923 on: March 23, 2024, 01:55:18 pm »
I am aware of this. I’m more concerned about what comes after.

The last Labour government got a hell of a lot of shite from the left for not being properly left, for being pink rather than properly red, for being little different from the Tories, especially in the fundamentals. The last Labour government was hugely better than the Tories that preceded them and the Tories that followed.
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Sangria

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2924 on: March 23, 2024, 01:58:09 pm »
No one’s listening to him anyway imo, other than those who already agree. Or those who would never agree, but like to get mad at Owen Jones.

The last substantive achievement I saw from Jones was him getting a feminist journalist kicked out from the Guardian for being anti-trans.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2925 on: March 23, 2024, 02:24:04 pm »
The last substantive achievement I saw from Jones was him getting a feminist journalist kicked out from the Guardian for being anti-trans.

If you mean Suzanne Moore;

Owen cant take the credit for that, 338 people signed a petition for the editor to look at her article, this included colleagues and politicians, an editorial team that was constantly removing pieces in her work that they considered transphobic and she resigned

She added that she had never fitted in at The Guardian, saying: "The personal becomes political at the moment you never feel clean enough. I was always somehow inappropriate.



As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2926 on: March 23, 2024, 02:30:48 pm »
If you mean Suzanne Moore;

Owen cant take the credit for that, 338 people signed a petition for the editor to look at her article, this included colleagues and politicians, an editorial team that was constantly removing pieces in her work that they considered transphobic and she resigned

She added that she had never fitted in at The Guardian, saying: "The personal becomes political at the moment you never feel clean enough. I was always somehow inappropriate.

Yeah, that was a bad moment for the Guardian. Most of the signatories I'd never heard of. In fact they seemed to be technical staff, computer geeks etc rather than writers and journalists. Owen Jones might indeed have been the only journalist who wanted his colleague gagged and censored - and gagged, let's remember, for having the wrong opinions. A scabby moment for him. The inner Stalinist coming out.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2927 on: March 23, 2024, 02:36:58 pm »
Yeah, that was a bad moment for the Guardian. Most of the signatories I'd never heard of. In fact they seemed to be technical staff, computer geeks etc rather than writers and journalists. Owen Jones might indeed have been the only journalist who wanted his colleague gagged and censored - and gagged, let's remember, for having the wrong opinions. A scabby moment for him. The inner Stalinist coming out.

You must have missed the part where I mentioned the editorial team were constantly removing her transphobic comments from her articles.

Im not sure why if you have heard of the signatories or not is relevant?
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2928 on: March 23, 2024, 02:42:37 pm »
You must have missed the part where I mentioned the editorial team were constantly removing her transphobic comments from her articles.

Im not sure why if you have heard of the signatories or not is relevant?

I didn't know about the the "constant" censorship you refer to. I'm a bit surprised at that.

I think it is relevant though. If Suzanne Moore had been hounded out by fellow journalists that would certainly affected my view of whether I wanted to read the Guardian or not. Others too I suspect. But a callow graduate who's just emerged from university all fired up by their own sense of virtue? Not so much. I can dismiss that bit more easily. That's the precisely the sort of person I would expect to call for the sacking of a colleague. Owen Jones too.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2929 on: March 23, 2024, 03:06:03 pm »
I didn't know about the the "constant" censorship you refer to. I'm a bit surprised at that.

I think it is relevant though. If Suzanne Moore had been hounded out by fellow journalists that would certainly affected my view of whether I wanted to read the Guardian or not. Others too I suspect. But a callow graduate who's just emerged from university all fired up by their own sense of virtue? Not so much. I can dismiss that bit more easily. That's the precisely the sort of person I would expect to call for the sacking of a colleague. Owen Jones too.

Youo've never heard of them but assume they are callow graduates straight out of uni?

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2930 on: March 23, 2024, 03:34:06 pm »
The weird thing about some of these threads (to me, and fair enough I'm a bit of a thick knobhead) is that (again my) the reason I feel that the Labour Party exists is to help the people of the country above those of those that would do them harm.

There is a bit of 'wiggle-room' in what you think about those that would do harm (Government/Armed Forces/Businesses/Country whatever) and those that could be brought on board to do the good for eveyrone - employees or otherwise.

One view is that the 'enemy' is the 'enemy' regardless of circumstances or change or agreements able to be made to benefit the many and not the few.

That's all a bit of an overview of what I'm thinking when Labour hopefully get back in power. There does seem to be a disconnect between people that I would have assumed wanted the same thing as me - and that can be for many reasons. You get the idea from talking to some Labour Supporters that they have been born with a silver spoon in their mouths - haven't had to move around a lot, didn't live in abject poverty, had two parents for their lives, didn't have to move schools twenty times, didn't spend much of their young lives getting battered and enjoying the NHS from the inside - that kind of thing.

I kind of feel I'm a bit empathic in that I have seen some crap and I saw (for instance) - the wanton and (to me) actually evil shit that she and her dickhead party pulled on the poor and vunerable at the time.

So, we have some people that don't think like I do because of a disconnect of wealth/circumstances and there are others that probably have another level of disconnect due to age - if you are 20 or 30 then you can't even imagine what it was like for poor people when Thatcher came in and wrecked the place.

In the same manner, if you are rich(ish) or young(ish) then again, you can't have understood what change was brought in when Labour got back into power again - though the same things that the Tories did last time they are doing again.


Which brings me to my actual meandering point :D


I want Labour in because I KNOW the damage that it has on the poor and weak and needy and especially poor kids. The lack of places to play or grow or be safe or even be happy have been destroyed again by the Tories who just want Torybots to work til they die to give money to their mates. I care about these  people because they are me when I was young and not so young. It astounds me that someone on one hand can say they are 'socialist' and yet don't seem to care for the PEOPLE that are impacted by what is going on.For me it should ALL be about the PEOPLE. Because without people is Socialism even a thing?

Reading the Owen Jones thing, I wonder. Does he really give a flying fuck about kids that are homeless or estranged or in dire straits - being abused or beaten up or homeless or barely able to eat and never feeling safe?


I don't get that disconnect. I don't get that people can say 'They are all the same' when they have never fucking ever experienced anything about what the difference actually was.

I can't accept that they can, because if they knew the difference and don't give a fuck anyway about anyone - then wow. Just wow. Probably borderline evil itself to have that little regard for your fellow man.

If idealogy or being right or proving a point of wanting 'this' instead of shit that would actually help people in the real world then what are you actually thinking? What is your actual aim?


My aim and hope is that if Labour get in, then the damage can be reversed. Real people. Real kids. Struggling every minute of every day get some respite. The services and things that should be available to society and those in it could begin to be restored. The hope that has been smashed could being to be restored. People can actually think about being valuable and safe and wanted and needed and part of our society.

The place is a fucking shambles at the moment, but not much more of a shambles as when those fucking Tories fucked us all last time.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2024, 03:37:12 pm by Andy @ Allerton! »
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2931 on: March 23, 2024, 03:36:18 pm »
Youo've never heard of them but assume they are callow graduates straight out of uni?

I'd never heard of most of their names, but I recall seeing a breakdown of who the signatories of the letter were and what they did at the Guardian. Possibly my assumption is unfair. But I made it the back of that list, and what I was told at the time by a veteran staff member of the newspaper - a feminist who supported Moore, and who is a friend. 

In fact here's the list of denouncers: https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr64n9
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2932 on: March 23, 2024, 03:36:38 pm »
Owen Jones just letting anybody that wasn't already aware know what a total and utter bellend he is & always has been.

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Offline Sangria

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2933 on: March 23, 2024, 03:51:29 pm »
The question that might have made him squirm a bit would be...."Given the fact that there are now Muslims in the England squad, do you think it's appropriate that England has a crucifix on their shirt at all?"

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/PQsVq4-ObXE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/PQsVq4-ObXE</a>

Apparently it goes back to the Hundred Years war and distinguishing the English (St George, red cross on white) from the French (St Denis, white cross on red).
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2934 on: March 23, 2024, 05:08:44 pm »
I didn't know about the the "constant" censorship you refer to. I'm a bit surprised at that.

I think it is relevant though. If Suzanne Moore had been hounded out by fellow journalists that would certainly affected my view of whether I wanted to read the Guardian or not. Others too I suspect. But a callow graduate who's just emerged from university all fired up by their own sense of virtue? Not so much. I can dismiss that bit more easily. That's the precisely the sort of person I would expect to call for the sacking of a colleague. Owen Jones too.

Another point in my post that you chose to ignore is that she resigned as she didnt feel at home at the guardian, thankfully journalists writing transphobic comments dont feel at home there.

Now that we have established that Sangria was wrong to state that Jones got her kicked out we can move on.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2935 on: March 23, 2024, 05:14:42 pm »
Another point in my post that you chose to ignore is that she resigned as she didnt feel at home at the guardian.


I'm not surprised! How would you feel in her situation? Bloody 'ell.

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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2936 on: March 23, 2024, 05:16:02 pm »
I'm not surprised! How would you feel in her situation? Bloody 'ell.

Id feel my transphobia was better served in the Daily Mail
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Coyler

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2937 on: March 23, 2024, 06:11:52 pm »
Id feel my transphobia was better served in the Daily Mail
Haha quite! Lord save us, this is not a case of a put-upon prophet.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2938 on: March 23, 2024, 06:13:16 pm »
Id feel my transphobia was better served in the Daily Mail

What transphobia was it?
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2939 on: March 23, 2024, 06:20:16 pm »
What transphobia was it?

It was constantly censored by the editors (not Owen Jones) you would have to ask them.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2940 on: March 23, 2024, 06:24:27 pm »
She just doesn't buy into the ridiculous idea that a man is a woman just because he puts on a bit of lippy and a dress. That's wrongthink at the Guardian these days so a bunch of pathetic weasels including Owen Jones bullied her out of her job.


fucking hell  :butt
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Online TepidT2O

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2941 on: March 23, 2024, 06:24:35 pm »
She just doesn't buy into the ridiculous idea that a man is a woman just because he puts on a bit of lippy and a dress. That's wrongthink at the Guardian these days so a bunch of pathetic weasels including Owen Jones bullied her out of her job.
Look, let’s not go down this route.
It will just end up getting the thread locked.
Obviously it’s a highly complex issue which isn’t ever helpfully discussed by absolutist statements (although, it almost always seems to be.)
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Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2942 on: March 23, 2024, 06:34:53 pm »
It was constantly censored by the editors (not Owen Jones) you would have to ask them.

So you have no idea.

Is it worth derailing another thread about something you don't know?

I'm with Tepid. If you want to start a Trans thread then feel free mate.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2943 on: March 23, 2024, 06:36:11 pm »
So you have no idea.

Is it worth derailing another thread about something you don't know?

I'm with Tepid. If you want to start a Trans thread then feel free mate.

I apologise and I will shut up.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2944 on: March 23, 2024, 06:40:46 pm »
So you have no idea.

Is it worth derailing another thread about something you don't know?

I'm with Tepid. If you want to start a Trans thread then feel free mate.

Hang on, I got involved to state that it wasnt Owen Jones who goit  her kicked out, because thats the reality.
If someone is constantly removing your words for being transphobic, its not a good look is it?


As for getting it locked, I stasted a few posts ago its time to move on but you and Bob ignored that
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2945 on: March 23, 2024, 06:53:53 pm »
Hang on, I got involved to state that it wasnt Owen Jones who goit  her kicked out, because thats the reality.
If someone is constantly removing your words for being transphobic, its not a good look is it?


As for getting it locked, I stasted a few posts ago its time to move on but you and Bob ignored that


Literally the first and only thing I'd posted on it after asking what it actually was

Which you didn't know.

I don't know either.

Next!

:)
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Byrnee

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2946 on: March 25, 2024, 02:15:19 pm »
Yep, he's wealthy enough to suffer zero consequences of any sort of post-election turmoil.
You could make a long list actually, if Zeb was still here he'd tell you to start with the lexiters, KH.

All Owen Jones cares about, apparently, is dramatically exaggerating current foreign affairs and the UK's roles in them, and most importantly, attacking Starmer for every single thing he does. He spends more time attacking Starmer than he does attack any of the Tories, and has for a long while now been on a road to discredit everything Starmer does with the vein hope of moving the party back to the extremes where the party became an irrelevance and allowed the Tories to run roughshod over the British public.

Jones is now using [the thing we can't mention] as a preposterous excuse for leaving the party, when in reality he left any form of what it represents years ago. If we were able to talk about that thing we could mention how his insane rhetoric has no bearing to reality.

He is, like the former leader, far more comfortable sniping from the back-benches than proposing any ideas that will have real, practical effects on the people of this country. The idea that he is also parroting Tory soundbites to attack Labour - scared of what they would do with power based on Lindsay Hoyle allowing the amendment?!?!? - is as gross as he dramatic.

Vote green, Vote Independent, and get Tory. Jones knows this and it is a gross despicable act to suggest that Labour are so powerful that people should actively help Tories to send Labour a message.

He forgets the public sent Labour a message in 2019. It was fucking deafening - but Jones in his myopic little world is one of the few radicals who has kept his fingers in his ears on that judgement. Surprise, surprise.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2947 on: March 25, 2024, 05:44:32 pm »
Why do we talk so much about Owen Jones? He's never mentioned on the BBC. If I had to guess who he was I'd go for recently humiliated rugby player.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2948 on: March 25, 2024, 05:46:39 pm »
Why do we talk so much about Owen Jones? He's never mentioned on the BBC. If I had to guess who he was I'd go for recently humiliated rugby player.
I think it is because he is so widely and roundly disliked. And rightly so.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2949 on: March 25, 2024, 09:05:59 pm »
The reason Jones is attacking Starmer is because he fears a Labour victory much more than he fears a Tory one.

He is still bitter about his Corbyn project getting humiliated in 2019 and he doesn't want Starmer moving the party back to the centre to make it electable and in government.

Like the former leader he is much more comfortable being a protester rather than a decision maker and involved with governing the country that could make a big difference to people's lives.

The only thing he does by suggesting Green or Independent is threaten the chances of a Labour government and threatening the chances of that government making a real difference to the lives of the poorest just like the last Labour government did.

Any Labour government is better than a Tory government but that is something that Jones doesn't want
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2950 on: March 25, 2024, 09:31:47 pm »
He’s just a Marxist Adrian Durham.  Don’t engage folks!
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2951 on: March 25, 2024, 09:51:35 pm »
Ive heard Jones say on several occasions that he will vote for Starmers Labour party. That has obviously changed but to suggest he fears a Labour government more than a Tory one is just bullshit

As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2952 on: March 25, 2024, 10:24:53 pm »
It keeps him relevant.  The perpetually outraged
It’s just for clicks
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2953 on: March 25, 2024, 11:13:00 pm »
Ive heard Jones say on several occasions that he will vote for Starmers Labour party. That has obviously changed but to suggest he fears a Labour government more than a Tory one is just bullshit



I agree. I don’t think he fears either prospect. But he clearly doesn’t want a Labour government anymore than he wants a Tory one. Do you have any idea why?
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2954 on: March 25, 2024, 11:19:54 pm »
I agree. I don’t think he fears either prospect. But he clearly doesn’t want a Labour government anymore than he wants a Tory one. Do you have any idea why?

I would guess he wants

1 Green 
2 Labour
3 Tory/Reform etc

I cant remember if he has said anything about the LDs to include them in my little table

I dunno if you listen to podcasts Yorky but he was interviewed by Lewis Goodall from The News Agents on Friday
Give it a listen ifd you're interested in what he has to say
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2955 on: March 25, 2024, 11:37:25 pm »
You guess?

But that’s all you - we - can do. All we know for sure is that Owen doesn’t want a Labour government.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2956 on: March 25, 2024, 11:59:28 pm »
You guess?

But that’s all you - we - can do. All we know for sure is that Owen doesn’t want a Labour government.

I felt putting I guess was more genuine than trying to pass off opinion as fact
which is so often the case in here
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2957 on: March 26, 2024, 11:57:02 am »
I felt putting I guess was more genuine than trying to pass off opinion as fact
which is so often the case in here

I'd say a forum is all about opinions and discussion of those opinions?

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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2958 on: March 26, 2024, 12:36:01 pm »
I felt putting I guess was more genuine than trying to pass off opinion as fact
which is so often the case in here

I'm agreeing with you! None of us know what outcome Owen Jones wants at the next election because he hasn't said - beyond "not a Labour government." He may even - in the Trotskyist tradition he inherited from mum and dad - want another Tory one in the belief that it will intensify the class struggle and bring socialist revolution and working-class power closer to Britain. But, like you, I'm only guessing.
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Re: Labour Thread * No Gaza *
« Reply #2959 on: March 26, 2024, 06:38:48 pm »
I'd say a forum is all about opinions and discussion of those opinions?

Of course, but my point is I didnt want to pass of my opinion as fact
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.